![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 47. Go back in thread:
Posted by CarolAnn on October 16, 2000, at 9:29:48
In reply to Re: Who Am I?, posted by CarolynAnn on October 15, 2000, at 18:23:58
Hey CarolynAnn,
Not only are our names similar, we also seem to have the same type of depression experience. I haven't found an anti-depressant that really works, but my doctor gave me Adderall (a stimulant) for my extreme fatigue, and when I first started taking it, I felt like a 'normal' person for the first time in my life. It was like a 'fog' lifted off my brain, and for the first time in my life, I could 'see' who I was. Unfortunatly, after the first couple months, the Adderall lost most of it's effectiveness, now it mainly just gives me a little energy boost. I think I'm going to try Adrafinil, which I will have to order from an internet company(it's not available in the US.).
Well, I wish you good luck in finding a good antidepressant, I've been thru most of them, and haven't found the right one yet. Take Care, CarolAnn
Posted by coral on October 16, 2000, at 15:56:16
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » coral, posted by noa on October 16, 2000, at 8:26:20
Dear Noa,
The first episode was when I was 41 and the second one (now) is happening at 49. With the first depressive episode, I lost 3 1/2 years before getting appropriate intervention (11 docs in all) and it took me a year to heal. This episode hit last month. With the first one, I felt as if I'd been knocked down the rabbit hole with Alice. With this one, I intellectually know what's happening - it's just the emotional side that's a mess, but I am healing. I'm not sure what you meant about age playing a part -- if I just deal emotionally, the black beast wins. I have to keep thinking and processing what's coming through this depression.
Posted by noa on October 16, 2000, at 17:43:39
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP to Noa, posted by coral on October 16, 2000, at 15:56:16
Sounds like you were hit hard, Coral.
What I meant was that for people who start having depressive episodes earlier in life, maybe the Me-not Me question is more of an issue than it would be for people, like you, who first experience depression later on, well after their sense of self is established and solid. Maybe that is why you are able to see the depression as outside your self, although it is an effort, as you say. Just a hypothesis.
Posted by ksvt on October 16, 2000, at 20:07:01
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » coral, posted by noa on October 16, 2000, at 8:26:20
> >I was intrigued by the "RM" me and "DM" me and confess that my core identity never separated that way. I am me, sometimes depressed, mostly not. In fact, I go to the opposite extreme and see depression as this beast who has crept into my house, intent on stealing my soul...
>
> Being able to see the depression as an external threat is a good thing, something I work at all the time. Sometimes I can, sometimes, the depression is in me, and I cannot see it as outside. Sometimes it is a mixture--it is a beast but I am the beast.
>
> I am curious, you mentioned having two episodes, 6 years apart, and I wonder how old you were at the first episode, and whether you think age of onset might be related to this phenomenon of depression-self blurring.Noa - please elaborate on what you mean by seeing depression as an external threat. ksvt
Posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:33:54
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by ksvt on October 16, 2000, at 20:07:01
Ksvt, what I meant is that when you imagine your depression, does it seem to be something separate, outside yourself? Like Coral's image of a beast--something attacking from outside the self.
If one can picture their depression as something separate, and outside the self, I think it is easier to preserve a positive sense of self, whereas those of us who have felt depression is part of our self may have a harder time feeling like we like ourselves.
I guess my hypothesis is that people who have suffered from depression from a young age are more likely to have difficulty separating their experience of depression from their experience of their self, at least while depressed (for me, anyway, my thinking is mood-dependent). And, people who encounter depression for the first time as adults, may not have as much difficulty with this--they have a solid sense of who they are, and see the depression as something other than them.
Does this make sense?
Posted by Nibor on October 17, 2000, at 7:27:51
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » ksvt, posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:33:54
Hi, I have been reading this very interesting discussion.
I thought it might be helpful, so here is a bit from an introductory chapter of Undoing Depression. If anyone would like to see more of the intro or any other section, please let me know. I have been thinking of putting the entire introduction on our website (http://www.undoingdepression.com)...or some other chapter from the book. Do you think that would be good?> Ksvt, what I meant is that when you imagine your depression, does it seem to be something separate, outside yourself? Like Coral's image of a beast--something attacking from outside the self.
> If one can picture their depression as something separate, and outside the self, I think it is easier to preserve a positive sense of self, whereas those of us who have felt depression is part of our self may have a harder time feeling like we like ourselves.
>
> I guess my hypothesis is that people who have suffered from depression from a young age are more likely to have difficulty separating their experience of depression from their experience of their self, at least while depressed (for me, anyway, my thinking is mood-dependent). And, people who encounter depression for the first time as adults, may not have as much difficulty with this--they have a solid sense of who they are, and see the depression as something other than them.
>
> Does this make sense?Most people who have had a true experience with depression have no trouble at all believing that something biochemical in nature has happened to them. The change in mood, in how the self and the world are perceived, seems so profound and overwhelming that it makes intuitive sense to feel that the self has been invaded by something alien. We do not feel like our selves. Something very powerful, something from outside us, has invaded and changed us.
But most people with depression also recognize that this feeling which seems so foreign is also very familiar. They remember many times from their childhood and adolescence when they felt the same way. They felt alone, helpless, and friendless. They may remember their parents as kind and loving, but they wonder why they felt so unloved. They may have believed that they had to be perfect, and they may have tried very hard, but failed, and felt again the futility of their efforts. As adults, they may have thought they’d grown out of it, but here it is again. Winston Churchill referred to his depression as the "black dog"--the familiar beast that quietly pads in in the evening and settles down at your feet.
Depression is a disease both of the mind and body, the present and the past. In psychiatry now we have pitched battles going on between opposing camps, those who want to treat the brain and those who want to treat the mind. Both sides have powerful motives for pushing their own theories, some of which are idealistic and some of which are ignoble. Unfortunately, the patient is caught in the middle. The family doctor, supported by the pharmaceutical industry, is likely to say "take this pill"—but when it doesn't work, the patient just has another in a long line of failures to add to his baggage. The mental health professional is likely to say "let's talk about it"—and the patient is likely to feel patronized, misunderstood, because how can simply talking cure such terrible pain?
It's not an either-or question. Both ways of thinking are true. Both points of view have much to contribute to helping the depressed patient and his family. Both also have a lot to teach people who simply want to raise emotionally resilient children in a difficult world. There is a biochemical process to depression, but the individual has been made susceptible to depression through life experiences. The current episode may be precipitated by an external event, but the event has set in motion a change in the way the brain functions.
Posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 9:38:58
In reply to Something has invaded and changed us. LONG, posted by Nibor on October 17, 2000, at 7:27:51
> it makes intuitive sense to feel that the self has been invaded by something alien. Something very powerful, something from outside us, has invaded and changed us.
Thanks, Robin. as I read the above, I had this thought that depression can be seen as somewhat analogous to AIDS, in that the invading alien attacks and changes the very thing inside us that we would otherwise use to combat the invasion, making this self-protective mechanism (immune system) weak, and potentially powerless against this and other invaders.
Posted by Nibor on October 17, 2000, at 10:31:56
In reply to Re: Something has invaded and changed us. LONG, posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 9:38:58
> > it makes intuitive sense to feel that the self has been invaded by something alien. Something very powerful, something from outside us, has invaded and changed us.
>
>
> Thanks, Robin. as I read the above, I had this thought that depression can be seen as somewhat analogous to AIDS, in that the invading alien attacks and changes the very thing inside us that we would otherwise use to combat the invasion, making this self-protective mechanism (immune system) weak, and potentially powerless against this and other invaders.Exactly. "It's the depression itself that makes us feel it's useless to seek help." Here's a little more from Undoing Depression:
The Experience of Depression
Everyone knows what depression feels like. Everyone feels the blues at times. Sadness, disappointment, fatigue are normal parts of life. There is a connection between the blues and clinical depression, but the difference is like the difference between the sniffles and pneumonia.
Depressive disorders are "whole person" illnesses; they affect the body, feelings, thoughts, and behavior. The depression itself can make us feel like it's useless to seek help. The good news is that eighty to ninety percent of people with depression can be treated effectively, but the bad news is that only one sufferer in three seeks treatment. More bad news is that almost half the American public views depression as a character defect, rather than an illness or emotional disorder. Still more bad news is that only half of all cases of depression are accurately diagnosed, and only half of those receive adequate treatment.
We confuse depression, sadness, and grief. But the opposite of depression is not happiness but vitality—the ability to experience a full range of emotion, including happiness, excitement, sadness, and grief. Depression is not an emotion itself. It's not sadness or grief, it's an illness. When we feel our worst, sad, self-absorbed, and helpless, we are experiencing what people with depression experience, but they don't recover from those moods without help.
The hallmark of depression is a persistent sad or "empty" mood, sometimes experienced as tension or anxiety. Life lacks pleasure. People with mild depressions may go through the motions of eating, sex, work, or play but the activities seem hollow; people with more severe depressions withdraw from these activities, feeling too tired, tense, or bitter to participate. There is often a nagging fatigue, a sense of being unable to focus, a feeling of being unproductive.
People with depression usually experience a lowered self-esteem. In a depression, you may feel that you are a helpless victim of fate, but you also feel that you don't deserve any better. Feelings of guilt, shame, and hopelessness are common.
Posted by Rzip on October 17, 2000, at 13:51:43
In reply to Re: Something has invaded and changed us. , posted by Nibor on October 17, 2000, at 10:31:56
> Nibor,
I loved your excerpt on "The Experience of Depression". It is precisely how I felt, the hollowness and the bitterness. The verge of either falling over the edge into suicidal idealizations or to hold on and struggle to find traces of hope in those dark intense moments. I have been on both sides and I am grateful for those who helped me to hold on by channeling out of my internal abyss and seek help from the Professional community.
You know, at this moment, right now I feel full of hope. But there is always these lurking thoughts that I am fooling myself. What if instead of walking away from the edge of the cliff, I am actually sliding down the slope to the infernal beneath. How does one know that one is not depressed on this moment? How do you differentiate the self-inflicted lies from reality?
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX > The Experience of Depression
>
> Everyone knows what depression feels like. Everyone feels the blues at times. Sadness, disappointment, fatigue are normal parts of life. There is a connection between the blues and clinical depression, but the difference is like the difference between the sniffles and pneumonia.
> Depressive disorders are "whole person" illnesses; they affect the body, feelings, thoughts, and behavior. The depression itself can make us feel like it's useless to seek help. The good news is that eighty to ninety percent of people with depression can be treated effectively, but the bad news is that only one sufferer in three seeks treatment. More bad news is that almost half the American public views depression as a character defect, rather than an illness or emotional disorder. Still more bad news is that only half of all cases of depression are accurately diagnosed, and only half of those receive adequate treatment.
> We confuse depression, sadness, and grief. But the opposite of depression is not happiness but vitality—the ability to experience a full range of emotion, including happiness, excitement, sadness, and grief. Depression is not an emotion itself. It's not sadness or grief, it's an illness. When we feel our worst, sad, self-absorbed, and helpless, we are experiencing what people with depression experience, but they don't recover from those moods without help.
> The hallmark of depression is a persistent sad or "empty" mood, sometimes experienced as tension or anxiety. Life lacks pleasure. People with mild depressions may go through the motions of eating, sex, work, or play but the activities seem hollow; people with more severe depressions withdraw from these activities, feeling too tired, tense, or bitter to participate. There is often a nagging fatigue, a sense of being unable to focus, a feeling of being unproductive.
> People with depression usually experience a lowered self-esteem. In a depression, you may feel that you are a helpless victim of fate, but you also feel that you don't deserve any better. Feelings of guilt, shame, and hopelessness are common.
Posted by ksvt on October 17, 2000, at 21:20:27
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » ksvt, posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:33:54
> Ksvt, what I meant is that when you imagine your depression, does it seem to be something separate, outside yourself? Like Coral's image of a beast--something attacking from outside the self.
>
> If one can picture their depression as something separate, and outside the self, I think it is easier to preserve a positive sense of self, whereas those of us who have felt depression is part of our self may have a harder time feeling like we like ourselves.
>
> I guess my hypothesis is that people who have suffered from depression from a young age are more likely to have difficulty separating their experience of depression from their experience of their self, at least while depressed (for me, anyway, my thinking is mood-dependent). And, people who encounter depression for the first time as adults, may not have as much difficulty with this--they have a solid sense of who they are, and see the depression as something other than them.
>
> Does this make sense?Noa - my depression generally feels like it is the essence of my being so I'm not sure I've ever been able to externalize it. How freaked out I get about it depends on whether it has a permanent feel to it or whether I can recognize it as a temporary feeling. I usually feel that I've brought it on myself by something I did or didn't do or that i didn't see danger signals early enough and therefore didn't take necessary steps to avert it. There was a time when i worried tremendously about getting hit with another major episode. It's like waiting for the proverbial shoe to drop. Maybe during this time I was viewing it as an external force which might hit without warning. I can't figure out whether I'm better or worse off for getting over the persistent feeling that depression would strike without warning. I don't have that same worry but I also have little confidence that I'll be able to live relatively depression free. It's like I've traded the fear of major onslot for the notion of living with a lesser level all the time. Now it's not external anymore - it just seems like me and it's hard to like myself with that preoccupation. Your theory about age makes sense on its face altho I trace my depression back to my first big episode in my mid-twenties, and not really before. The next one didn't hit until about 18 years later, but its not like there were lots of bright lines between my depressed self and non depressed self. I think I was building up to the second one for a long time and as such, I just can't really remember anymore what it felt like to have no impression of depression. BTW and in reference to your post on another thread, you shouldn't worry about having lost your 30's to depression. From my observation, you're a mere babe in relation to lots of us. (I am 48) You have tons of time to make up ground and probably tons more wisdom that many of your contemporaries. ksvt
Posted by ksvt on October 17, 2000, at 21:21:48
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » ksvt, posted by noa on October 17, 2000, at 6:33:54
> Ksvt, what I meant is that when you imagine your depression, does it seem to be something separate, outside yourself? Like Coral's image of a beast--something attacking from outside the self.
>
> If one can picture their depression as something separate, and outside the self, I think it is easier to preserve a positive sense of self, whereas those of us who have felt depression is part of our self may have a harder time feeling like we like ourselves.
>
> I guess my hypothesis is that people who have suffered from depression from a young age are more likely to have difficulty separating their experience of depression from their experience of their self, at least while depressed (for me, anyway, my thinking is mood-dependent). And, people who encounter depression for the first time as adults, may not have as much difficulty with this--they have a solid sense of who they are, and see the depression as something other than them.
>
> Does this make sense?Noa PS: What do you do to help yourself view depression as an external force? ksvt
Posted by Noa on October 18, 2000, at 16:38:19
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by ksvt on October 17, 2000, at 21:21:48
> Noa PS: What do you do to help yourself view depression as an external force? ksvtI TRY (the operative word) to visualize it as a monster/beast, a la Tracy Thompson( I think her book might be called The Beast) and also on a similar idea by the author of Conquering the Beast Within. Often it does feel like a trade off of fear/anxiety vs. depression as part of who I am. But if I can visualize the monster and allow myself to feel angry at it and scared of it and visualize fighting back, it helps a lot.
Also, grieving for the lost time, etc. has helped. Of course, I had to get to a point where I could allow myself to grieve as opposed to blaming myslef and engaging in self loathing.
I think that if you can create ways to remind yourself that there have been times without the depresion, it can reinforce that "temporary" concept, which you find helpful.
It also sounds to me like you are not really in remission, that there is still more antidepressant effect to search for.
Posted by CarolynAnn on October 18, 2000, at 19:30:31
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by Noa on October 18, 2000, at 16:38:19
> Personally...I use the image of an alligator. I visualize myself locking the alligator in an attic, and it is helpful to imagine others assisting me. I had a dream of this once, and have found it useful ever since!
> > Noa PS: What do you do to help yourself view depression as an external force? ksvt
>
> I TRY (the operative word) to visualize it as a monster/beast, a la Tracy Thompson( I think her book might be called The Beast) and also on a similar idea by the author of Conquering the Beast Within. Often it does feel like a trade off of fear/anxiety vs. depression as part of who I am. But if I can visualize the monster and allow myself to feel angry at it and scared of it and visualize fighting back, it helps a lot.
>
> Also, grieving for the lost time, etc. has helped. Of course, I had to get to a point where I could allow myself to grieve as opposed to blaming myslef and engaging in self loathing.
>
> I think that if you can create ways to remind yourself that there have been times without the depresion, it can reinforce that "temporary" concept, which you find helpful.
>
> It also sounds to me like you are not really in remission, that there is still more antidepressant effect to search for.
Posted by laural on October 19, 2000, at 7:33:47
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » Noa, posted by CarolynAnn on October 18, 2000, at 19:30:31
hi-
what part of me is the meds the illness and what is ME?
My mom and I were talking about this a while ago. When youre sick you become completely self-involved, almost like survival mode. you have no energy or insight into helping others because you really do need to help yourself first. i look back to when i was really sick and was and often still am ashamed at who i was--so selfish and demanding, draining. i lost all my friends this way, needing far more than they could give and then hating them for not being willing to be my emotional slave. some of them really were pansies--they could have a least come to see me in the hospital--
Anyway, i know, however, that i am lovable likeable and quite giving when i can let down my guard against all those demons I often also feel that i must be one of the weakest people in the world due to lack of motivation but i know how i was before i got sick and d-mn it i'm still alive! i survived and i didn't hurt anybody (physically) other than myself the fights not over yet, never will be, but since i managed to controle my self-medication and stick to my meds, once we found some that worked somewhat, i've been leveling out. once that happened, it was like something woke inside me that had been frozen from when i first got really sick and i started making up for lost time, i developed in maturity and am presently solidifying my identity, something that most people do in high school or early college but that i at age 25 am now beginning to do. even at the height of my illness i was still me, just very guilty and pessimistic and desperate. subtract all the adjectives that people describe depression or mania or psychosis etc from your personality ask someone else who they see you as on your good days who you are is that part of you that lying on the bathroom floor, makes you get up and treat your wounds, makes you come to this web site, makes you try in any way to better yourself, your life. who you are is what is hurting when the disease tells you you are something other than what you really are--laural
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 10:11:47
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » Noa, posted by CarolynAnn on October 18, 2000, at 19:30:31
> > Personally...I use the image of an alligator.
Cool. I wonder if geography influences the images we come up with.
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 10:13:07
In reply to RE Who am I?, posted by laural on October 19, 2000, at 7:33:47
nicely put.
Posted by Angela5 on October 19, 2000, at 18:50:44
In reply to RE Who am I?, posted by laural on October 19, 2000, at 7:33:47
> i started making up for lost time, i developed in maturity and am presently solidifying my identity, something that most people do in high school or early college but that i at age 25 am now beginning to do.
That sentence really spoke to me. I am 24, and I often feel so far behind. Partially due to depression and meds, I never "followed my dreams" and, what's worse, I eventually stopped dreaming.
Recently, I have run into several old friends from high school. Seeing how their lives (specifically careers) have turned out has really made an impact. Two are teaching, one is directing a non-profit organization, one is finishing med school, one is about to open a company. All of these people have followed their "dreams," so to speak. I, on the other hand, don't even know what my dreams are anymore.Who are you, the person who you imagine in your head (the person you want to be, or think you would have been), or the person that's actually there on this earth every day?
Like most depressives, I am not very nice to myself. I don't do much that I enjoy, and I am not even sure that I know the meaning of the word relaxation. Therefore, as part of my recovery from depression this time, I am determined to rediscover a little bit of "who I am." I want to know what I really like, what I really enjoy doing, and maybe a few ideas on what to do in the future.
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 19:16:47
In reply to Who am I? I don't think I know myself anymore..., posted by Angela5 on October 19, 2000, at 18:50:44
Angela, I hope you can learn to be kinder to yourself.
First, it is common in your twenties to encounter a kind of competetive interaction among college/high school friends, even if it is way below the surface. I think the 20's are full of "who am I's" "what will my life be like" "what do I want to do with my life", etc. Even for people who appear certain of these things.
Don't expect yourself to know all the answers right away. Be patient with yourself.
Elsewhere on this board, Dove and I wrote about "detours". Life doesn't always have to go in a straight line.
Also, I can relate to the feeling of loss from dealing with depression at important developmental stages. But it is important to treat yourself as a griever, sympathetically, not judgmentally.
I think is not uncommon for some who went right into a profession after college, to find themselves changing directions at 28, 30, 35, 40, etc. So, even tho it appears these friends are so together, it doesn't mean that they are "set for life", or that your taking your time to figure things out is less good a way to deal with this time of life.
In my late 20's, I was friends with someone who went to the same college, although we had not been freinds at college. We used to talk about how much the alumni news in the alumni magazine made us feel so inadequate---everyone was a partner in this law or investment firm, or chief resident at this hospital, not to mention the successful authors, etc., and all this accomplished while managing to marry an equally successful ivy-leaguer and having 2.5 amazingly wonderful children, and somehow feeling calm and wonderful about balancing it all.
So, we joked about submitting our own joint news item: Noa X writes to say she bumps into Diana Y every so often in City Z. Diana is completing her doctorate in nuclear choreography, and Noa models "fashion 'don'ts'" for Glamour Magazine.
Several years later, in my mid thirties, I was able to chuckle as I read updates from some of the superstars that had appeared in the magazine a few years earlier. Some of the high powered attorneys, business execs, etc. had left their professions, gone back to school to study something very different--education, social work, acupuncture, etc., or had opened a low-key small business ---and were starting completely over in mid to late thirties.
Posted by ksvt on October 19, 2000, at 20:38:16
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by Noa on October 18, 2000, at 16:38:19
>
> > Noa PS: What do you do to help yourself view depression as an external force? ksvt
>
> I TRY (the operative word) to visualize it as a monster/beast, a la Tracy Thompson( I think her book might be called The Beast) and also on a similar idea by the author of Conquering the Beast Within. Often it does feel like a trade off of fear/anxiety vs. depression as part of who I am. But if I can visualize the monster and allow myself to feel angry at it and scared of it and visualize fighting back, it helps a lot.
>
> Also, grieving for the lost time, etc. has helped. Of course, I had to get to a point where I could allow myself to grieve as opposed to blaming myslef and engaging in self loathing.
>
> I think that if you can create ways to remind yourself that there have been times without the depresion, it can reinforce that "temporary" concept, which you find helpful.
>
> It also sounds to me like you are not really in remission, that there is still more antidepressant effect to search for.Noa thanks for being so good about answering my posts. It always seems like you have pretty good insight about things and are able to articulate well. You are definitely the master of the helpful metaphor. Alot of what's been posted lately has obviously triggered something because I had a lengthy discussion with my therapist today about my inability to externalize my depression and to remember myself as at all different from the way I am now. It's very difficult because I can't draw up any positive images for comparison. I think you are correct about my depression not really being in remission. I like to think that it is because it's been going on so long and because I'm certainly more functional and productive, particularly with my work, than I was at my depressed worst. On the other hand, i'm still pretty capable of awful days and lately I've been sort of obsessing about how much I dislike myself, which is, in and of itself, a very self-absorbing activity. It's not really obsessing - it's more just having a generalized in-the-pit-of-my-stomach feeling that I'm never going to get any better and that i've made life infinitely more difficult and complicated than it has to be. At the moment it feels like a real struggle to keep going and I'm sort of at the end of my rope trying to come up with ideas of things which might make a real difference. Keep posting. Not to put any pressure on you or anything, but I get the distinct impression that there are alot of people, like me, who keep an eye out for what you have to say. ksvt
Posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 21:08:59
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » Noa, posted by ksvt on October 19, 2000, at 20:38:16
I think one of the reasons what I have written to you hit home is that so much of what you write resonates clearly with my own experience!
The thought about not being in full remission came from my experience of that. Yes, in comparison to the worst periods of depression, I was ok, but really I wasn't fully ok, and there was still more that needed to be done in terms of medication.
Keep searching until you get that feeling of aha, now I feel I am on the mend.
Posted by roo on October 20, 2000, at 16:08:33
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 21:08:59
Interesting thread! I definitely think depression
is a disease, like diabetes. It has been hard to
distinguish myself from my depression at times--it's
so consuming (and I'm in the camp of those who have
had it from an early age, which probably does make
a difference in your perspective.) I don't know...
I think we are spirits, pure spirits, and we know
when we experience that pure part of ourselves...
depression affects our _perspective_, the lens from
which we look out from our spirits into the world. I think depression
is not who I am, but the symptoms I feel when the symptoms
move in and become so strong that they are all I can
feel and see. When I treat the symptoms, I get relief,
and then the pain lifts so I can feel my true spirit
again. It's been there all along, it's just that the
pain of the depression made it impossible to experience.
I used to feel (and sometimes still do in a blue
mood) that I was "damaged goods" and unlovable because
of my depression--that's when I was viewing it more as a
part of who I was. Now I take depression less personally...
I think of it as an ailment that flares up and I have to
watch out for. If I start feeling the symptoms (mood, feeling
like shit about myself, etc) than I need to start taking
care of myself, and making sure I'm getting the right
meds, balance of self care, spirituality, etc.
Posted by CarolynAnn on October 20, 2000, at 18:53:28
In reply to RE Who am I?, posted by laural on October 19, 2000, at 7:33:47
Wow...are you sure you aren't me????? I too have lost friends from being too needy, too dependent, until finally I woke up and realized NOBODY could make ME feel better! Now I expect little, and consequently can be grateful for any amount of caring I do get! And don't feel bad about doing this at 25. I am 54 and still struggling!
Posted by CarolynAnn on October 20, 2000, at 18:55:03
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » CarolynAnn, posted by noa on October 19, 2000, at 10:11:47
Well...I don't see too many alligators in Pennsylvania!
> > > Personally...I use the image of an alligator.
>
> Cool. I wonder if geography influences the images we come up with.
Posted by Noa on October 21, 2000, at 15:20:23
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP, posted by roo on October 20, 2000, at 16:08:33
When I treat the symptoms, I get relief,
> and then the pain lifts so I can feel my true spirit
> again.This makes me think of the book I am reading, The Alienist, by Caleb Carr. An Alienist, in the 19th century, was like a psychologist. The theory was that mental disturbance was due to being somehow alienated from one's true nature.
Posted by Noa on October 21, 2000, at 15:21:35
In reply to Re: Pass on the CNP » noa, posted by CarolynAnn on October 20, 2000, at 18:55:03
Funny, I think I was mixing you up with CarolAnn, who, I THINK lives in Florida.
This is the end of the thread.
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