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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
Overall, becoming more self aware-mindful has been a good thing for me. Every day I'm slowly becoming more connected to who I am - my needs, my emotions, my reactions. I'm becoming stronger. Therapy has really helped me with all of that.
The down side is that as I become more self aware I'm less able to tolerate being around my parents, and this is becoming a big problem for me. I'm not ready to make changes (react, confront, draw attention to myself, or cut them out of my life) but at the same time I feel tortured by continuing to be around them.
What can I do other than avoiding them and drinking my way through dinner? With Thanksgiving I thankfully had the role as family cook to hide behind, but what will I do next time when there is no handy distraction?
I don't know how to get my dad to stop giving me a hug. Its the worst. I can feel myself split off and get stiff, moving mentally away from the physical closeness. I'm self-aware enough now to watch the process. I'm also having a problem with feeling revulsion. I can't eat anything that is remotely associated with my dad - if he's touched it or if it was made at his house. Before our Thanksgiving dinner he was wandering in the kitchen with his fingers in everything. Somehow he always ends up sitting right next to me for dinner. No matter how I try to plan where I will sit so that we are not next to each other, it always seems to happen. During the dinner my mind somehow puts him into a black hole so that he just disappears from my awareness and from memory of the event. How is it that no one ever notices that he's not there (the mysterious space-time disruption that has swallowed him up) and that I've also checked out?
I almost wish I could go back to being completely shut down. This is torture. I'm betrayed by my own body reactions and emotions that I can't even completely name yet. I feel desperate. I want to continue my progress but I keep running into these things that are just too painful.
How do I do this? How do I remain true to myself (making progress with being present in the moment) while still continuing to be around the people who caused me to develop my issues? My therapist asks, "what if you don't split off and allow yourself the hug? What emotions are behind there?" But I just can't. My awareness is already too much.
This morning I really do feel like I've been through something horrible last night. Over the last year or so the sense of dread and obligation I feel about seeing my parents has shifted to a feeling of panic and being overwhelmed. Both of my parents make me react this strongly, just in different ways. I just don't know how to get through all of this.
Posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2008, at 13:04:40
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
Maybe that's why my grown kids live far away except one who doesn't tell me a thing . Love Phillipa
Posted by Sigismund on November 28, 2008, at 13:21:21
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
When he was about 17 my son took me in hand by showing me how, both adults now, we could continue our thing together, giving me a manly hug. I wasn't too keen on initiating this kind of thing, not knowing how to walk past people in the street, let alone whether I should hug them or not. I rather liked the Englishman who said 'Mother, I'm going to die now. Could you please leave the room.'
There is no escaping family life. I imagine you will endure it with your customary lucidity. Apart from being the cook, are there any other roles you could find to hide behind? My son has taken up magic tricks, which I enjoy since I never understand how anything works.
Posted by Sigismund on November 28, 2008, at 13:40:34
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
Maybe you can find ways in which you feel more in control?
Posted by Dinah on November 28, 2008, at 15:14:19
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
I may be totally weird in this, but why do you need to see them?
I invited my mother to Thanksgiving this year, because she really doesn't have anyone else. But after she and my uncle arrived an hour after the time I told her dinner would be served (the second time she's done this - the first time was at a restaurant) and talked on her cell to her sister after dinner, I'm planning to ask her if she'd like me to bring her and my uncle plates of food for Christmas. I can't say she wrecked my holiday because a few years ago we just started eating when we told her dinner would be ready. When they arrived, I warmed up a plate for them. Still....
It may be terribly unfeeling of me, but to me holidays don't need to be torture just in order to comply with some Hollywood notion of family.
My therapist is actually pretty proud of me.
Posted by DAisym on November 28, 2008, at 15:40:27
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
I could have written what you wrote about Thanksgiving except no cook role to hide behind.
I think it is part of the process of knowing what happened, figuring out your feelings about it, letting it settle in as part of your history and coming to terms with the people responsible. Even if you cut them out of your life, at this stage, it wouldn't mean you'd done it deliberately but more to avoid all these hard feelings. Which isn't a bad reason to avoid family - but it leaves things unfinished.
You sound like you are in such a raw place that they touch your open wounds. When my dad came to visit last summer, I actually had many sessions practicing the practical aspects of what having him around was going to mean. I was (somewhat) prepared for the hug - but I managed to avoid a number of them by having things in my hands - hot coffee, serving dishes, the cat, etc. And I made it a point to take a spot at the table where I could get up and down for the kitchen and I put my kids on either side to "monitor them." It was not easy and I was a wreck after he left. It was exhausting holding it all together. But I felt like you do - not ready to confront, not ready to completely cut them out of my life,etc.
Talking about how I was going to probably feel with my therapist was really important. I wanted to avoid it, but he knew how hard it was going to be and kept coming back to it. And we also brainstormed ways I could feel his safety with me - like having his talisman in my pocket or glancing at something on the kitchen windowsill that reminded me that we are connected.
I sent my therapist an email last night and said, "I can't imagine getting through another family thing in only three weeks" - and my dad wasn't even there yesterday. So you are definately not alone in those feelings. I think I'm going to take a game or puzzle and hang out with my younger nieces and nephews. They are not threatening and actually make me smile. If you can do something like that, it might help. Otherwise, I say just be kind to yourself and do the best you can. Get a good night's sleep before hand and arrive at the last possible minute. Leave as early as possible. Avoid typical family arguments by refusing to engage - silence works pretty well.
I love my family. They drive me crazy and often hurt my feelings. It is such a slow process to allow those who hurt you to also love you.
Take it easy on yourself today. You did go through something yesterday.
Posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 19:17:54
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath » turtle, posted by Phillipa on November 28, 2008, at 13:04:40
> Maybe that's why my grown kids live far away except one who doesn't tell me a thing . Love Phillipa
I'm very sorry that my post brought up negative feelings for you about your kids being so far away. The holidays really can be so difficult for all.Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 19:20:37
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by Sigismund on November 28, 2008, at 13:21:21
> When he was about 17 my son took me in hand by showing me how, both adults now, we could continue our thing together, giving me a manly hug.
Sigismund,I think I like your son. Your description of his magic tricks and reaching out to stay connect with you made me smile. It sounds like it was a very sweet (manly) moment.
You are right that I should look at control more. Many of the negative things I feel are all wrapped up with the loss of control. I do tend to be very passive with both of my parents although elsewhere in my life I seem to be able to be very competent. I do try to control what I can though, such as determining where and when I will meet them and trying to limit the involved factors. Maybe there is more that I can do if I think it through.
Thanks!
Turtle
Posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 19:26:30
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by Dinah on November 28, 2008, at 15:14:19
> I may be totally weird in this, but why do you need to see them?
>Dinah,
You make a very good point. Why do I need to maintain contact with them at all? The thought feels kind of freeing, but also scary for some reason that I can't define.
I don't understand yet my sense of obligation or why I force myself. I don't get anything in return from them. I have no inner need to see them. Maybe this is a question I need to try to answer.
I have reduced the amount that I see them to what is "barely minimum" to maintain some sort of a dysfunctional family relationship. They live close so I end up making a lot of excuses. I'm balancing the distance I need with avoiding creating rejected feelings in them that would in turn make things more difficult for me in an entirely different way. In the end, it's still all about "feeding their needs" when I play this game. Maybe some day I'll be strong enough to be honest with them.
I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have your mom show up an hour late to a restaurant during a busy thanksgiving night! That must have been very awkward! When my relationship with my current significant other first started to show stress, my partner also did something similar to me. That Thanksgiving she wouldn't get out of bed and kept going back and forth about whether she would even go or not. Begging and trying to reason with her did not help. She waited until a whole hour after we were supposed to be at my sister's before she *started* showering and making the dish she was going to take with us. We were very late and I was so embarrassed. It took me awhile to slowly start taking care of myself first in those situations and to let her fend for herself - meaning that I now leave when I need to even if it means going by myself and having her meet up with us later. It also turns out that she has an anxiety disorder (nowhere near controlled yet at that time) that was contributing to her dragging her feet that day. Maybe your mother or uncle also had some sort of emotional struggle that slowed them down?
Thanks!
Turtle
Posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 19:33:07
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by DAisym on November 28, 2008, at 15:40:27
> I think it is part of the process of knowing what happened, figuring out your feelings about it, letting it settle in as part of your history and coming to terms with the people responsible. Even if you cut them out of your life, at this stage, it wouldn't mean you'd done it deliberately but more to avoid all these hard feelings. Which isn't a bad reason to avoid family - but it leaves things unfinished.Daisy,
I think that so much of last night just really caught me off guard. You are right that I just feel too raw and exposed, much more so than I expected. I thought that the events of the holiday (cooking, kids, etc) would protect me and keep me distant, but it didn't. You also make a very good point about the difference between running away too soon and taking the time to process things and be deliberate in my choices. I do want to heal instead of just burying it all again.
So far my therapist has been trying to help me understand my emotions and the physical reactions, but she is mostly guiding me to try to "stay with the feeling" to understand more. We haven't really worked yet on tips to help me avoid these things or how to deal with the effects. I feel a little scared right now knowing that I'm so easily effected and not having any tools yet to really help. I like your tips to avoid the hugs, having a talisman, and arranging the seating. Your understanding also is helping me.
The energy between myself and my dad has always been bad, but we have always maintained a baseline awkward distance. I'm very surprised, but I think he might even be responding to my trying to withdraw (as I'm working through more in therapy) by trying even harder to come closer. I think that's also been in play recently.
I feel very foolish right now that I let myself be blindsided. I am just so good at disconnecting myself and denying what I feel that I didn't think it through. I'm not used to being vulnerable. I think that I learned yesterday that I can't rely on my usual tricks alone and that I need to start planning ahead for the emotional impact.
Thank you so much for sharing what has been helpful for you.
Turtle
Posted by BayLeaf on November 29, 2008, at 9:51:20
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
I just don't go. Don't care if it's avoidant. It feels better and safer.
Instead, I get DVDs to watch, and buy special bath products, a new loofa, and nice nail polish and call it a spa day.
I turn off the phone, and the TV. There is no evidence of any holiday occuring. Well, accept for my sparkling toes.
Bay
Posted by rskontos on November 29, 2008, at 11:34:32
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
Turtle,
I am with Dinah. Recently my father and I had a big blow up when I finally confronted him with some things he made me feel. Big deal for me. I discussed it with my p-doc/t before. He said it could make me feel better/it could not make me feel better but the only way for me to know was to do it. So I did it. Whew. Things got ugly fast, but it was good for me. Now I lost it at therapy when I told my T what was said and done. But he was proud of me for not backing off and standing my ground. I do feel liberated in a sense to say some of the things I had been keeping in. In no way does it make my father feel bad for his part in my trauma, he is in denial and in denial he will stay. I did it for my freedom. And it has set me on more solid ground.
It also made me aware, that if I don't want to see him that is my choice for he made his so many years ago. My t has helped me see that I am not responsible for his actions he is. And how I feel now is due to those actions. I can try to love him as much as I can but how I feel is ok too.
I do so much relate to your post.
You must do what makes you feel the most solid and peaceful. Not what makes the rest of the world feel best.
It will get easier to decide what is right for you. Well maybe not easier but more doable.
rsk
Posted by turtle on November 30, 2008, at 11:43:41
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by BayLeaf on November 29, 2008, at 9:51:20
> I just don't go. Don't care if it's avoidant. It feels better and safer.
>
> Instead, I get DVDs to watch, and buy special bath products, a new loofa, and nice nail polish and call it a spa day.
>
> I turn off the phone, and the TV. There is no evidence of any holiday occuring. Well, accept for my sparkling toes.
>
> BayBayleaf,
Good for you! I'm glad you are able to treat yourself. It is hard when you are at the place in your life where you wish you could ignore it all but all of the holiday stuff keeps marching on and being thrust at you. I remember one November when I was very depressed that I actually called my favorite radio station and begged them to stop playing Christmas music. They were unsympathetic until I wailed "but it's not even Thanksgiving yet!" I noticed that they stopped, but I didn't feel any better. I just couldn't get away from the holidays that year no matter where I turned. I think I would have been better off if I had taken your approach and hidden in the "spa"!
Thanks!
Turtle
Posted by turtle on November 30, 2008, at 11:45:06
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by BayLeaf on November 29, 2008, at 9:51:20
Posted by turtle on November 30, 2008, at 11:50:26
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath » turtle, posted by rskontos on November 29, 2008, at 11:34:32
> I am with Dinah. Recently my father and I had a big blow up when I finally confronted him with some things he made me feel. Big deal for me.> You must do what makes you feel the most solid and peaceful. Not what makes the rest of the world feel best.
>
Wow!
What a huge thing! I'm proud of you too!I keep asking myself, "why put myself through this?" It's very hard to understand when I'm struggling with being afraid, nauseous, raw and vulnerable how "staying in the moment" and sticking with it instead of retreating will help me. I've been thinking about your post. I'm so not there yet, but I can see how what you did would put you on more solid ground. So much of what I do is all about managing my parents no matter what the cost to me is (outward directed). Your father did not react well, but your saying those words and standing by them was really about *you*, not him (all about what's inside). Once you get to that place the balance shifts to taking care of yourself and a place of strength.
Maybe I'll get there.
Thank you!
Turtle
Posted by FindingMyDesire on November 30, 2008, at 23:50:03
In reply to thanksgiving aftermath, posted by turtle on November 28, 2008, at 12:47:34
Dear Turtle,
I'm so sorry to hear about the Thanksgiving aftermath. I can relate to the sense that the work in therapy (and beyond) is contributing to less tolerance for being around your parents.It sounds so hard to be so aware of your feelings, but it's amazing how you are able to articulate your struggle and ask yourself how to remain true to yourself in such a situation.
I don't have any helpful thoughts to offer about what to do from here. I just hear your struggle and your pain.
I offer you a hug. (((((((((((Turtle))))))))))))
FMD
Posted by turtle on December 1, 2008, at 20:59:50
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath, posted by FindingMyDesire on November 30, 2008, at 23:50:03
> Dear Turtle,
> I'm so sorry to hear about the Thanksgiving aftermath. I can relate to the sense that the work in therapy (and beyond) is contributing to less tolerance for being around your parents.
>Thanks FMD!
Positive support and big hugs go a long way. I feel better now, although I'm also a bit mad at my T for not helping me more with all of this before the event. Something else to talk about this week I guess!
I'm glad to see you come back around.
Turtle
Posted by rskontos on December 2, 2008, at 11:15:53
In reply to Re: thanksgiving aftermath » rskontos, posted by turtle on November 30, 2008, at 11:50:26
Turtle,
You will get there. I never thought I would do this and I never thought it would help me. But it did. I am not sure where our relationships goes from here and it doesn't matter. I am feeling stronger within myself to choose how I proceed from here. Isn't that what it is all about. Not to let what happened dictate our choices but for us to dictate our direction.As adults it is up to us to decide what our relationships is with our parents as well as them. That I feel is hard to for us. Not to fall back into old worn out patterns.
Again, it is up to you to help yourself make it about you and not feel bad that is about you. Man that is hard but oh so liberating.
I believe you will get there.
rsk
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