![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 36. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 7:49:28
Even though I was neck deep in work, I'd worked on thinking about the vomit phobia as well. We both agreed it wasn't a "simple phobia", and that it was complicated with elements of ptsd, dissociation, and a lot of things I brought to the table that got all entwined with this.
I told him that I thought the key was to stay present while doing any work on exposure. That my natural defense, done very quickly, would be to dissociate. And that in that state, exposure therapy wouldn't be as helpful as it would if I was present and able to access my response. That I would need him to notice if I went away, and I'd need him to call me back.
He said that was expecting a lot from him, and he didn't think he could do it. That he didn't always notice when I left the room, so to speak. And that he didn't have a great track record of knowing how to call me back.
So I've tabled the whole idea. If my therapist has no confidence that he can help me, I seriously doubt he can help me.
I spent the rest of the session calling *him* back to session. He was obviously distracted. He was going away for the weekend and maybe he was halfway there already. As I told him, I spent the first three quarters of the session trying to engage him to be present. I pointed out how I'd done it. I told him that sometimes it felt like I put way more effort than he did into the relationship, and I think he was miffed on that score. But I really do think I put in more energy to bring him to session than he ever has with me.
I pointed out that this was not an unrelated topic, that I was explaining to him how I called him back to session. And that there were many ways, from my more coaxing ways to peremptory demands. But he said he just doesn't *see* the way I do whether someone is emotionally engaged or not. :(
Another thing really bugged me, well more than one thing I suppose. On the way out the door I smiled, thinking that he sure could use a vacation, and wished him a good trip. He answered appropriately but changed the pronoun to "WE", and put emphasis on it. "Thanks. I hope that WE have a good time." That annoyed me. He knows I don't feel for him that way. And he knows I want only the best for his wife and their marriage. There was absolutely no need to forceably remind me of her. Moreover, in context, the way he did it made me think of him in a way I don't wish to ever think of him. In the context of going away for a weekend, forcing the "WE" on me was a rather aggressive act not in keeping with my Ken doll image, and I resent it. I also resent any notion he had that it was necessary. I don't resent the weekend. But that felt like a moving along handshake. I'm always offended when I get one of those because it really isn't necessary. I don't presume.
Although, when the first shock wore off, I could think of other possible interpretations of the addition of the emphasized "WE". None of them are particularly appropriate for our relationship, but the others wouldn't also be insulting.
I'm a bit disappointed with him for both those things. Heaven knows that I don't idealize him or think he's perfect. But these things can still be disappointing.
Still, the funny thing is he really does help me. I had walked into the session totally exhausted to the point of feeling physically odd, removed, having all sorts of temporal lobe experiences (partly because I'd forgotten to take my meds for several days since I take them at bedtime and I hadn't actually gone to bed for several days). When I walked out I felt grounded, more like myself, less dissociated, and more able to finish my workday productively. The temporal lobe stuff was still there, but it bothered me less.
Sigh. Why does he have such powerful effect on me for good? If I were someone who believed in those things, I'd think he emitted some sort of calming brain waves that my brain waves picked up, and that calmed them by contact.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 12:04:59
In reply to A bit disappointed, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 7:49:28
I actually asked him about the "we" today. It really was bothering me. He didn't remember saying it of course, but said that he wouldn't possibly have changed the pronoun for *my* benefit, and said that the only thing he could think of was one of the other things that had occurred to me later.
So still not entirely appropriate given my Ken doll image of him, but not insulting. :)
At least there's that. He may not be willing to stretch and learn to help me. But at least he doesn't misunderstand my attachment to him.
Posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 12:16:36
In reply to A bit disappointed, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 7:49:28
"Still, the funny thing is he really does help me. I had walked into the session totally exhausted to the point of feeling physically odd, removed, having all sorts of temporal lobe experiences (partly because I'd forgotten to take my meds for several days since I take them at bedtime and I hadn't actually gone to bed for several days). When I walked out I felt grounded, more like myself, less dissociated, and more able to finish my workday productively. The temporal lobe stuff was still there, but it bothered me less. "
"Sigh. Why does he have such powerful effect on me for good? If I were someone who believed in those things, I'd think he emitted some sort of calming brain waves that my brain waves picked up, and that calmed them by contact. "
Dinah, so sorry you struggling. Hope you can be careful with your physical health.
My old T helped me. I still miss that relationship. She just seemed to keep me more grounded. made me feel more 'safe' in some indefinable way.
I think your T has an effect on you for good in much the way my old T did. Its the relationship. Its not magic, its not necc all a special chemistry.
It can be had with a diff T too.
I know you are attached to your T, of course you are, there is a very long term connection and understanding btwn you.
But...uh oh...
you don't gotta read my drivel,
cuz drivel it is...
but
if you still reading,
well then I wondered if you might want to try to transiotion to another T and see if you could do some diff weork, with a diff approach?
I hear that the realtionship with your T helps HUGELY with your stability, but does he help you move ahead? Do you WANT to move ahead?
Just so often I hear your frustration with him, that he seems unable to push things, to engage, to try new things.
So sometimes it seems like you want to move ahead with some stuff....and sometimes not.
I gotta tell you, it was a hard hard decsion for me to change T's, but I feel I am learning more with this new T. She lacks some things that my old T had, but she has other things that are more important to me right now.
And really, my realtionship w/old T was just so not really T like, it was more 'visiting' for me.
So I dunno.
Maybe you can keep old T for safety, but trey new T for some diff therapy?
Or mebbe I just blowin wind out my *ss :-0 ;-)
Dinah, you sure are a neat person.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2008, at 12:31:46
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed » Dinah, posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 12:16:36
Dinah hope you got caught up on your work and no vomiting in your house. Trying to be positive. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 13:25:02
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed » Dinah, posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 12:16:36
I know you're right. I'm often frustrated with his contentment with the status quo. I'm frustrated that he has no desire to expand his knowledge base to help me any. I'm frustrated with his limitations as a therapist. He doesn't seem to feel there is any pressing reason for me to improve in any way.
Maybe that's part of why I go to adjunct therapists at time. I can't see a second therapist without a reason, because he wouldn't accept my having two therapists. But he is ok with my having an adjunct therapist.
The problem is that I'm just not a nice person. I don't like any of the adjunct therapists. At all. I've seen a number of them, and while I didn't dislike them all equally, I did dislike them all.
If I found one I liked, I might possibly be willing to see my therapist once a week and the adjunct therapist once a week. But I doubt I'll like any of them.
Apart from all else, my therapist is special if only in the fact that I can tolerate being with him for longer than a session or two.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 13:28:38
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2008, at 12:31:46
Thanks Phillipa. It should be a while, at least a few months, before I have to put in that many hours again. It was made worse by the fact that my husband was also extra busy and couldn't take on some of the home responsibilities as he often can when I'm really busy.
I need to put in good long days until then, but I don't think I'll need to pull allnighters.
Posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 13:49:23
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 13:25:02
> I know you're right. I'm often frustrated with his contentment with the status quo. I'm frustrated that he has no desire to expand his knowledge base to help me any. I'm frustrated with his limitations as a therapist. He doesn't seem to feel there is any pressing reason for me to improve in any way.
:-(
> Maybe that's part of why I go to adjunct therapists at time. I can't see a second therapist without a reason, because he wouldn't accept my having two therapists. But he is ok with my having an adjunct therapist.
maybe you could phrase it as you are getting to know another T as back up, as you have discussed with your T before, it would be nice if you knew there was someone else out there...
Having two T's I could see being a prob as well, if it was ongoing, my T does not allow it either.
What adjuncts have you tried?
How many?
How long?
It may be that your are a very discriminating T consumer, and thats a good thing cuz there ARE bad T's out there, but sometimes it takes a bit of time to find one that 'fits'. Mebbe years. But might as well go 'shopping' and browse around and see whats out there.
Maybe make lists of what you ARE looking for, and lists of what are detrimental points.
Maybe write down what it is you wish to change/accomplish in T. Obvo, you like a stable relationship, but what else?
> The problem is that I'm just not a nice person. I don't like any of the adjunct therapists. At all. I've seen a number of them, and while I didn't dislike them all equally, I did dislike them all.Oh lord Dinah, you ARE a nice person HERE! So apparently it is within you to BE a nice person! LOL and FWIW I still am not overly fond of my new T, but we are doing good work. So mebbe 'like' is not necc a prerequisite, maybe you can come to respect them rather than like?
Its just nice to get some 'work' done in T and move ahead. For me it is anyways.
> If I found one I liked, I might possibly be willing to see my therapist once a week and the adjunct therapist once a week. But I doubt I'll like any of them.'But you doubt you'll like any of them'. Manoman you just GOTTA know thats gonna bring out the momma in me bout negative PRECONCIEVED notions!!!! I think...therefore it IS....Hmmmm.
When I was having trouble with my oldT, I had NO conception of ever working with a diff T. Like NO WAY. It took too long to come to an understanding with her. Too long for her to get to REALLY know me some. Sides I liked seeing her, and she made me feel good.
But over time my ongoing frustration won out and now I have a new T. NOT to say old one was bad, she was very good, but the work we could do together was done, it was time to move on. It wasn't easy, but I did it and I am glad.
> Apart from all else, my therapist is special if only in the fact that I can tolerate being with him for longer than a session or two.You can tolerate him, then you CAN tolerate another, you just need to get yourself out of the negative hopeless mindset you've fallen into.
Anyways, if you are content with the status quo, fine.
If not.......time to go 'shopping' around.
Just my thots.
I do not mean to be bossy or rude.
I may well be way off base.
Just food for thot.
I love it when people give me food for thot.
Something to chew on and digest.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 14:12:14
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed, posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 13:49:23
Hmmm...
The therapist I had as a preteen - Well, I didn't like him, but I suppose preteens don't like anyone.
Biofeedback guy - Abrasive and rude. I'm sure he thought of himself as direct and no nonsense. I lasted a few sessions because I really wanted to do biofeedback and he was (and is) the only one in the city. The best I could say about him was that he was a good trial for my biofeedback relaxation. Every time he walked in the room, my blood pressure, pulse, etc. shot way up. He fussed at me for that.
Fluffybunny Psychologist - saw her for testing. Too soft.
EMDR therapist - I don't remember her much, and I don't think I hated her exactly. But long term? Nope.
T2 - Told me to grow up on our first (and last) session.
T3 - Seemed to like me ok on the phone. Had some interesting things to say at first. She thought I looked odd and let me know it, fairly openly. She eventually told me to grow up, less directly than T2.
Hypnosis therapist - Hypnosis didn't work, but also she seemed a bit scattered and vague. Not a good match, I think.
pdoc from h*ll - Arrogant jerk, never listened.
Dr. Just the facts ma'am - Didn't feel comfortable telling him much
Dr. Lurch (for want of a better name) - Scares me senseless
Some too hard, some too soft. Only one just right.
I could tell him that I want to see someone about the phobia, and I think his desire not to put himself out will overcome any worries he had about my taking one session a week to someone else. But he knows me well too. He knows it wouldn't likely work out.
I think it's great you can work so well with someone you don't particularly care for. I know I can't. Unless I have positive feelings for someone, I'd be way too mistrustful.
Posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 14:53:25
In reply to Re: A bit disappointed » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 14:12:14
> Hmmm...
> The therapist I had as a preteen - Well, I didn't like him, but I suppose preteens don't like anyone.*totally!
> Biofeedback guy - Abrasive and rude. I'm sure he thought of himself as direct and no nonsense. I lasted a few sessions because I really wanted to do biofeedback and he was (and is) the only one in the city. The best I could say about him was that he was a good trial for my biofeedback relaxation. Every time he walked in the room, my blood pressure, pulse, etc. shot way up. He fussed at me for that.*so only a few sessions? My T still make some nervous and all switchy.But I settle some.
> Fluffybunny Psychologist - saw her for testing. Too soft.:-) Like your names! Ya I don't go for soft either.
> EMDR therapist - I don't remember her much, and I don't think I hated her exactly. But long term? Nope.*what was it that was detrimental? was it gender?
> T2 - Told me to grow up on our first (and last) session.
*ya....like I said, some bad T's out there... :-(
> T3 - Seemed to like me ok on the phone. Had some interesting things to say at first. She thought I looked odd and let me know it, fairly openly. She eventually told me to grow up, less directly than T2.*:-( That must have been hurtful :-(
> Hypnosis therapist - Hypnosis didn't work, but also she seemed a bit scattered and vague. Not a good match, I think.*LOL scattered and vague and a hypnotist!!!LOL, mebbe she hypnotizing herownself!!!
> pdoc from h*ll - Arrogant jerk, never listened.*I have not met many p-docs I have liked, and judging by others too, I am not alone in this...which isn't to say they all bad....I just don't like them.
> Dr. Just the facts ma'am - Didn't feel comfortable telling him much*a p-doc too? Not very sensitive seeming.
> Dr. Lurch (for want of a better name) - Scares me senseless*nuther p-doc? sorry you got scared
> Some too hard, some too soft. Only one just right.
* I STILL think there one out there for you, but you gonna have to fight to relationship with them! :-0
> I could tell him that I want to see someone about the phobia, and I think his desire not to put himself out will overcome any worries he had about my taking one session a week to someone else. But he knows me well too. He knows it wouldn't likely work out.*again, negative. Maybe the first second or third won't, but what bout the fourth? mebbe they would. But you goto go into it with the right attitude, be willing to put cards on table. Be up front bout attitudes and how you feeling bout how they respond to you. I know you got super radar, but mebbe sometimes its wrong?
Mebbe you'll find one you can work with.
But you may have to fight yourownself to get there...
> I think it's great you can work so well with someone you don't particularly care for. I know I can't. Unless I have positive feelings for someone, I'd be way too mistrustful.*ROFL, I DON'T truly trust my T!!! I tell her that too. We talk about that she NOT gonna hurt me, I say that I do not KNOW that for a FACT, but I allow as given her credentials and time here that its unlikely she would. She does EMDR, and I say NO WAY (I think she not think I ready anyhow). No way cuz I not trust NOboddy to mess w/anything that might take my control away. She says I(me) am in control, I say how can I beleive you?! She say, do you think I think your weird, I don't, and goes on and on bout how she don't etc, and I end up saying, ultimately, I do not know what T thinks(manoman I think I FRUSTRATE her BIG time that day!!!)she may think I weird and hiding it cuz it not THERAPUTIC for her to say she think I weird!
LOL! So I DO respect that she has knowledge that may be helpful to me, and I am certainly willing to talk to her, but I am not yet ready to trust her.
The biggest stumbling block to my therapy is myownself, and my own defenses and resistance. I think it will just take time to get past that.
I am, due to my previous positive T experinece, moving to a position of more trust a thousand times fatser than with my previous T, so there is hope.
Only prob is this T is a specialist and big bucks, and my medical coverage is going to end, so I may have to end T....so it may all never happen. WTF eh?
Least I can take care of mysownself and NOBODDY ever f*ck w/this body, I kill them first, so body OK, just I'd like to do better. I'd like to learn intimacy and trust. I'd like to be together enuf to help others. To do anything cept wallow.
Wanka wanka!
I think I have rambled haven't I?
Oh well.
Just I wish you well Dinah.
Hope I not bothering you any.
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 16:52:22
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE, posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 14:53:25
> > Biofeedback guy - Abrasive and rude. I'm sure he thought of himself as direct and no nonsense. I lasted a few sessions because I really wanted to do biofeedback and he was (and is) the only one in the city. The best I could say about him was that he was a good trial for my biofeedback relaxation. Every time he walked in the room, my blood pressure, pulse, etc. shot way up. He fussed at me for that.
>
> *so only a few sessions? My T still make some nervous and all switchy.But I settle some.No, this guy liked being abrasive. He was one of those Dr. Phil types who like to shake things up to shock clients into making changes. That's just not going to fly with me. I folded my arms, and told him he clearly had some negative feelings about me and asked if he thought he could work with me anyway. He said I clearly had some negative feelings about him, and asked if I thought I could work with him. I said no, and that was that.
> > EMDR therapist - I don't remember her much, and I don't think I hated her exactly. But long term? Nope.
>
> *what was it that was detrimental? was it gender?I don't really remember her. Maybe that was the problem. :) I know she said she wasn't willing to see me unless I continued to see my other therapist. She didn't want the bother of what sounded like a high maintenance client, I guess. I probably felt her reluctance. I also have a vague memory that she didn't seem that bright a bulb. It may be horrid of me, but I think I need a therapist at least as smart as I am.
> > T3 - Seemed to like me ok on the phone. Had some interesting things to say at first. She thought I looked odd and let me know it, fairly openly. She eventually told me to grow up, less directly than T2.
>
> *:-( That must have been hurtful :-(Not really hurtful. It reinforced my ideas about how women perceive me, which was sad I guess. But I didn't care enough about her for her to hurt me.
> > Dr. Lurch (for want of a better name) - Scares me senseless
>
> *nuther p-doc? sorry you got scaredHe's still my pdoc! I like Dr. Just the facts ma'am much better, but he moved. :( Still, he gives me my meds without a fuss, and doesn't try to experiment on me. It's not necessary to say anything other than that my meds are working ok.
> > Some too hard, some too soft. Only one just right.
>
> * I STILL think there one out there for you, but you gonna have to fight to relationship with them! :-0
>
> > I could tell him that I want to see someone about the phobia, and I think his desire not to put himself out will overcome any worries he had about my taking one session a week to someone else. But he knows me well too. He knows it wouldn't likely work out.
>
> *again, negative. Maybe the first second or third won't, but what bout the fourth? mebbe they would. But you goto go into it with the right attitude, be willing to put cards on table. Be up front bout attitudes and how you feeling bout how they respond to you. I know you got super radar, but mebbe sometimes its wrong?
> Mebbe you'll find one you can work with.
> But you may have to fight yourownself to get there...
>
> > I think it's great you can work so well with someone you don't particularly care for. I know I can't. Unless I have positive feelings for someone, I'd be way too mistrustful.
>
> *ROFL, I DON'T truly trust my T!!! I tell her that too. We talk about that she NOT gonna hurt me, I say that I do not KNOW that for a FACT, but I allow as given her credentials and time here that its unlikely she would. She does EMDR, and I say NO WAY (I think she not think I ready anyhow). No way cuz I not trust NOboddy to mess w/anything that might take my control away. She says I(me) am in control, I say how can I beleive you?! She say, do you think I think your weird, I don't, and goes on and on bout how she don't etc, and I end up saying, ultimately, I do not know what T thinks(manoman I think I FRUSTRATE her BIG time that day!!!)she may think I weird and hiding it cuz it not THERAPUTIC for her to say she think I weird!
> LOL! So I DO respect that she has knowledge that may be helpful to me, and I am certainly willing to talk to her, but I am not yet ready to trust her.
> The biggest stumbling block to my therapy is myownself, and my own defenses and resistance. I think it will just take time to get past that.
> I am, due to my previous positive T experinece, moving to a position of more trust a thousand times fatser than with my previous T, so there is hope.
> Only prob is this T is a specialist and big bucks, and my medical coverage is going to end, so I may have to end T....so it may all never happen. WTF eh?
> Least I can take care of mysownself and NOBODDY ever f*ck w/this body, I kill them first, so body OK, just I'd like to do better. I'd like to learn intimacy and trust. I'd like to be together enuf to help others. To do anything cept wallow.
> Wanka wanka!
> I think I have rambled haven't I?
> Oh well.
> Just I wish you well Dinah.
> Hope I not bothering you any.
> MuffledYou NEVER bother me, Muffled. NEVER. I love to hear from you.
It's really hard to understand. I may be nice here on babble, and I may even be nice enough in social situations. But I'm *not* nice in therapy. I rely more on how they "feel" than how they look or what they say. But I also need someone who is just the right amount of pushy, someone with a large serving of tact (even if I can see through it), someone smart, someone with a bit of humor, someone willing to wait for me to be ready. And I'm not at all nice with therapists I don't like. I don't necessarily mean I'm confrontational, but I can be as intolerant as I used to be with teachers. I can definitely be challenging. I can be scornful.
I'm not saying there could never be anyone else. But I'd probably have to go through the entire phone book, and even then my chances wouldn't be great. I'm just not at all nice as a client.
And the chances of finding someone with the qualifications I would need for my specific problem? We're talking minute teensy chance then.
I do know that he can't help me with some of my stuff. I just don't quite know what to do about it.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 16:59:24
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE, posted by muffled on November 4, 2008, at 14:53:25
lol
Clearly there are some things about me that never change.
I was notorious at school for liking some teachers, and setting out to be helpful and charming and appealing, etc.
But with teachers I didn't feel were qualified, I was very subtly challenging, rude, scornful, and did my best to make utter fools of them by showing how little they knew. I guess I was relatively subtle, because I met one of them (the one I behaved most badly to) years later and chatted with him. He remembered me clearly, but not at all in the same terms I remember. He thought I was a terrific student to have! Interested, engaged, etc. lol.
I'm still that obnoxious brat, I guess, with authority figures.
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 17:05:12
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 16:59:24
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20031114/msgs/280540.html
Hmmm... I may have forgotten the specifics, but I got the overall picture right.
What a jerk.
Posted by Midnightblue on November 4, 2008, at 18:54:05
In reply to Well, at least, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 12:04:59
Dinah,
Hadn't he at some point hinted that he and his wife were separating? Maybe it was a way of saying they weren't?
MB
Posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 19:01:37
In reply to Re: Well, at least » Dinah, posted by Midnightblue on November 4, 2008, at 18:54:05
I can only speculate of course. But I imagine it had something to do with his personal situation, not his relationship with me. I hope all is well with them.
And I think that may be why my reaction is so strong this evening. I'm building a monster of what ifs on a slim bit of knowledge.
All I'm saying about his inability to help me in some ways is true. But I think my obsession with it tonight has as much to do with my fear of having so many eggs in such a fragile basket.
Posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2008, at 20:09:13
In reply to Re: Well, at least » Midnightblue, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 19:01:37
Dinah think you need sleep. So you can be a brat too? Nice to have company as boy I can be one at home!!!! Love Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on November 5, 2008, at 19:13:08
In reply to Re: Well, at least » Dinah, posted by Phillipa on November 4, 2008, at 20:09:13
When something bad happened at work today, I reached out to my therapist like a toddler lifting its arms to mommy after a fall.
:(
It's not that he said anything terribly reassuring, and certainly he didn't make me feel better in that way. Yet his bracing words were oddly helpful.
My son is really amazing. I wasn't even thinking of any of that, and I'd had some risperdal, yet as he stepped into the car he asked me what was wrong. Just like I do. Obviously being semipsyschic is more a matter of genetics than training. At least I hope I've given him no reason to learn to do that.
Posted by muffled on November 5, 2008, at 22:28:54
In reply to And yet..., posted by Dinah on November 5, 2008, at 19:13:08
> When something bad happened at work today, I reached out to my therapist like a toddler lifting its arms to mommy after a fall.
>
> :(*why the frownie?, that was a nice pic :-)
> It's not that he said anything terribly reassuring, and certainly he didn't make me feel better in that way. Yet his bracing words were oddly helpful.* my old T was like that (((T)))
> My son is really amazing. I wasn't even thinking of any of that, and I'd had some risperdal, yet as he stepped into the car he asked me what was wrong. Just like I do. Obviously being semipsyschic is more a matter of genetics than training. At least I hope I've given him no reason to learn to do that.* proly genetic, which makes you the best Mom for him, cuz you can help him with it, cuz it a tough way to be at times I expect.
(((Dinah)))Muffled
Posted by muffled on November 5, 2008, at 22:31:05
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 16:59:24
> lol
>
> Clearly there are some things about me that never change.
>
> I was notorious at school for liking some teachers, and setting out to be helpful and charming and appealing, etc.
>
> But with teachers I didn't feel were qualified, I was very subtly challenging, rude, scornful, and did my best to make utter fools of them by showing how little they knew. I guess I was relatively subtle, because I met one of them (the one I behaved most badly to) years later and chatted with him. He remembered me clearly, but not at all in the same terms I remember. He thought I was a terrific student to have! Interested, engaged, etc. lol.
>
> I'm still that obnoxious brat, I guess, with authority figures.*maybe you not so obnoxious.....mebbe you INTERESTING!
:-)
Posted by muffled on November 5, 2008, at 22:46:51
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 4, 2008, at 16:52:22
>"It's really hard to understand. I may be nice here on babble, and I may even be nice enough in social situations. But I'm *not* nice in therapy. I rely more on how they "feel" than how they look or what they say. But I also need someone who is just the right amount of pushy, someone with a large serving of tact (even if I can see through it), someone smart, someone with a bit of humor, someone willing to wait for me to be ready. And I'm not at all nice with therapists I don't like. I don't necessarily mean I'm confrontational, but I can be as intolerant as I used to be with teachers. I can definitely be challenging. I can be scornful."
*my T says she wants to know all of me, not just the nice parts. She one day said in response to something else, she say I bet you've got some choice names for me!(meaning NOT so nice!!!LOL!)
She know I got parts what REALLY not like her.
But she still work w/me. S'ok.
Mebbe you and your T need to do some good old CBT stuff bout some of your notions bout yourself. Many have a grain of truth which makes them very beleivable, but chances are they are somewhat distorted.
My oldT used to call me challenging(proly thot a whole lots worse stuff but wouldn't SAY it!!!LOL!!!)>"I'm not saying there could never be anyone else. But I'd probably have to go through the entire phone book, and even then my chances wouldn't be great. I'm just not at all nice as a client."
*ummmm? where in the book of T does it say a client must be nice????I know some people who are VERY challenging for their T's, but thats what T is THERE for, to help the figger stuff, good or bad. I was mostly (sorta) nice to old T, I am not making much of an effort to be friendly to new T.
I think you might find a T that would do, and WITH TIME could be every bit as good as your T, dare I say, possibly even better, if not as much fun!>"And the chances of finding someone with the qualifications I would need for my specific problem? We're talking minute teensy chance then."
Ummmm, you try finding a T w/experience in DD's...ugh, NOT so easy.
>"I do know that he can't help me with some of my stuff. I just don't quite know what to do about it."
*well, in my situation, I looked for another T. I was lucky with my second try. She not all that I would want, but I think with time we can adapt to one another. I really had gone as far as I could go w/oldT, as far as she was willing to go. She was still a strong support to me, but I needed to move ahead and she couldn't do that for me. We tried. We bith did, but I just got tired of the frustration and finally moved on.
I cannot tell you what the answers are Dinah.
Just that it sure wasn't easy for me, but I think I made the right decision.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2008, at 8:26:04
In reply to Re: And yet..., posted by muffled on November 5, 2008, at 22:28:54
Well, the frownie was for what happened at work. I got fussed at, and while intellectually I think I am reasonably ok with it and just wish to try to do better, my emotional self is battling feelings of being a bad girl and wanting to punish myself in various and somewhat improbable ways. I never have been able to tolerate being a bad girl, or being fussed at.
Posted by Dinah on November 6, 2008, at 8:32:25
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE, posted by muffled on November 5, 2008, at 22:31:05
Well, when I looked back and found the posts from biofeedback guy days, I realized I had remembered it slightly differently than how it happened. I suppose I wanted to allow myself more power in the interaction.
What happened was more an attack from him from the very first day on my therapist and then later on me. I really do think he was trying to shock me into some realization or another. Now my memory has been restored, I recall that I really wanted to do this so was behaving very well. I may have been defensive. (Well who wouldn't be if someone started out by calling my therapist narcissistic for absolutely no reason but the length of our therapy.) But I wasn't aggressive.
It was all rather pathetic really.
All in all it's no wonder I don't want to look again. I have the distinct feeling that therapists wouldn't like me, as well as vice versa.
I don't think I'm disappointed enough with my therapist to want to face that. I'd rather be afraid of vomit forever.
Posted by muffled on November 6, 2008, at 8:54:28
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 6, 2008, at 8:32:25
Just a thot.
Its been explored and thats good enuf.
Back to that lovely T of yours :)
((((T)))
((((Dinah)))
Sides I love hearing bout you guys.
I'd miss that.
Muffled
Posted by DAisym on November 8, 2008, at 23:45:01
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » muffled, posted by Dinah on November 6, 2008, at 8:32:25
I've been thinking about this thread a lot. I wonder if you've reached that stage that resembles the one where teens are disappointed in their parents - because they figure out they are human. It makes sense that the therapy relationship evolve along those lines - discovering the limitations of the person you love and trust - knowing that no one is perfect and no one can fill a person's every need.
I think acceptance of these limitations with graceful disappointment is a huge feat. You are to be commended for knowing what you want and knowing what is more important than getting it. I think this is very "adult-like" behavior. I wish I could do the same.
I also hope you find a way to lessen your phobia too.
Posted by Dinah on November 9, 2008, at 14:50:55
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » Dinah, posted by DAisym on November 8, 2008, at 23:45:01
Thanks for not using the "G" word! Or is it words?
I don't know... My feelings about my therapist have always been very mixed, and I think I've always been relatively critical of his weaknesses, so I doubt that I ever saw him as perfect.
And I'm not always that graceful in my disappointment. :)
I suppose the difference might be... I don't know... I love him more now as a person and not just as my therapist/mommy? So that the weaknesses don't bring as much anger as they used to, and more affectionate caring?
I guess I do miss the old days. I didn't think he was perfect but I did have a greater belief in his magic. Although I still manage to hold on to that.
But... I still wish he'd try to stretch to meet my needs. Isn't that his job?
Ah well. If he's not willing, he wouldn't be all that good at it anyway. And he's clear that he's not that willing.
Posted by DAisym on November 9, 2008, at 19:16:47
In reply to Re: A bit of a RAMBLE » DAisym, posted by Dinah on November 9, 2008, at 14:50:55
Is it possible that he might be afraid of disappointing you? That it isn't that he isn't willing, he just doesn't want your expectations to be so high? My therapist has done this to me, when I want him to promise something will be OK and he says things like "I hope" instead of "I'm sure."
I think you need to begin with baby steps and perhaps wonder if this isn't an bit of resistance to tackling something really hard. Are you both colluding not to tackle this? Just a thought, I know it isn't easy.
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