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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:33:06
I lost my hypomania. Now all I want to do is self-destruct. as quickly as possible. tenuous threads.
I go to sleep now. bed is safe place.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:42:43
In reply to something bad happened in therapy today., posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:33:06
llurpsie took 3mg of klonopin. that's her max dose. figuring it was a good compromise to a no-win situation.
I can't even talk about it. I am so ashamed.
Posted by Happyflower on May 13, 2008, at 17:14:28
In reply to something bad happened in therapy today., posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:33:06
((((Llurpsie))))) Please call your T or your Pdoc right away. Let them help you before you feel worse.
Posted by Dinah on May 13, 2008, at 18:13:41
In reply to something bad happened in therapy today., posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:33:06
If it was something that happened *in* therapy, please call your therapist. I've called mine when I've crashed because of something that happened in therapy. He was always glad I did.
Posted by Angela2 on May 13, 2008, at 20:02:55
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today. » llurpsienoodle, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:42:43
((((Llurpsienoodle))))
Please be good to yourself as you deserve it. If it were possible, I'd send you a get well package with a teddy bear and cuppie cakes and an aromatherapy candle.
ang2
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 20:17:01
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today., posted by Angela2 on May 13, 2008, at 20:02:55
thank you all for your caring posts. I am sorry so sorry. I just woke up from klonopin stupor and can't stop crying.
Here's the thing. H and I are poor right now. I had set aside some money for washington dc, but not 800 bucks for dental work (which I'm postponing another month), or hypomanic binge spending.
I was telling T about the spending too much, and out of his mouth comes the words I have been dreading to hear "How are you doing wth the copays?"
The thing is that T never sends me bills, he expects me to know what my copay is and keep track of it. I know it's at least 500 dollars, probably more since I paid him. I was hoping he had been forgetting it.
And then I left feeling like a jerk, a big f*ck*ng *ssh*l* for not paying my therapist and ripping him off. Dreading the conversation with h that concerns the therapy copay. h doesn't like to pay my T. Starts mutterin things about how I should just f*ck*ng get my sh*t together on my own.
T just kind of chuckles- "maybe that's what you can do for your homework [i had been complaining that marriageT always gives us homework]. He said it with a very serious look but still had the twinkle in his eye.
I am left between a rock and a hardplace. The two men in my life are asking me for money, and I have none.
maybe that's a little clearer.
I had a flashback about my dead kitty in the middle of the session. abrupt mood swing and crying, and I never really did recover from discussing the content of my sick dreams, or the visual/auditory shadows that I have been perceiving lately. disociation.
what a sucky day. MarriageT called me on my passive-aggressive bluff. She is very direct. We ask her for solutions, and she gives them.
I'm a freak bi*ch, who is passive aggressive and is stiffing her T. Who is the LAST person that I want to call about that.
There is no help. but there is self-punishment. Trying to avoid that though, if possible.
noodle
Posted by ClearSkies on May 13, 2008, at 20:34:49
In reply to I woke up with stupor, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 20:17:01
> The thing is that T never sends me bills, he expects me to know what my copay is and keep track of it. I know it's at least 500 dollars, probably more since I paid him. I was hoping he had been forgetting it.
>Just on a practical note, it would probably help you keep better track of T expenses if he would at least hand you a bill at the end of a session. My T and I keep the paperwork side very short and just on a carbonless receipt - so she's got a copy of what she's billed me too.
I hate, *hate* talking about money. But at least we've got a paper trail of some kind. I'm not trying to make excuses for you - but your T has been expecting you to keep track of your copays in your head? WTF? (He must have a lot of people who owe him money by now with this kind of practice.)
((((LlurpsieNoodle)))) I know how stressful it is to worry about bills and unexpected ones like the dentist. You'll get through this - it won't get cleared up overnight, but it will get better.
CS
Posted by Nadezda on May 13, 2008, at 20:45:48
In reply to I woke up with stupor, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 20:17:01
Llurpsie, maybe this is more about your grieving for you kitty than the money.
Are you punishing yourself for grieving, for feeling this loss, for having perhaps not protected your kitty?
The money is an issue-- but I don't think it's the real issue at the moment. You'll have a job, and will be more responsible about the money. Maybe you were a bit hypomanic; maybe you had unexpected dental bills-- or didn't account as much for them as was best--
but the emotions about your kitty seem to have plunged you into the emotions of the moment, the self-blame and self-punishment.
And I think you should call your T if you're in this much pain-- whether you've paid him in a timely way or not.
And, by the way, you're not ripping him off-- you will pay him.-- Perhaps that's become another reason to punish yourself-- but you don't deserve this outpouring of blame.
It's important not to hurt yourself-- and not to deprive yourself of his help, if you need it. Try, if you possibly can, to reach out--- even if part of you doesn't want to.
Nadezda
Posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2008, at 21:06:29
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor, posted by Nadezda on May 13, 2008, at 20:45:48
In a way you're lucky as I have to pay before I leave so the check is made out before I enter the office. Seems we're all having money problems now. And I for some reson feel that money somehow brings up grief. Especially a new one. Google Rainbow's Bridge the musical one. It will help you grieve. I cried many tears over that site. Phillipa
Posted by rskontos on May 13, 2008, at 21:58:41
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2008, at 21:06:29
Ll, money is the root of all evil and guilt, I say. It is a hard subject for all. Causes more marriages and friendships to break and it is surprising to me how many people can justify things in the name of it. But don't justify to us you beating yourself up over it. Especially to yourself to over your T who I know would not want you to do this. He needs to bill you. Just ask, and say I really need a bill from time to time because the calculator in my head is busted. And laugh and I am sure he will too. That is all. Then pay him what and when you can and he will be ok. I am sure of it.
Don't send yourself over the edge over this as it is not worth it. Or we will have to send you thousands of cyber hugs as punishment. Seriously, you are doing great, so don't think that you are due for something to happen.We all make money mistakes.
rsk
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:22:37
In reply to Please call your T, posted by Happyflower on May 13, 2008, at 17:14:28
> ((((Llurpsie))))) Please call your T or your Pdoc right away. Let them help you before you feel worse.
Thanks HF
I guess I'm lucky because pdoc has given me tools to use in crisis. One is klonopin. The other is zyprexa. I take these when needed. The key is to take them BEFORE I feel like overdosing. The zyprexa is easy, because it comes in individual packets that are a pain in the patootie to open. The klonopin is hard, because it spills out of the pill bottle too easily. I guess I'm lucky because there were only a few pills at the bottom of the pill bottle.T is the LAST person I wanted to call. I feel like I don't deserve him.
-Ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:27:07
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today. » llurpsienoodle, posted by Dinah on May 13, 2008, at 18:13:41
I just don't want to get all messy and sobbing on the phone and hang up feeling worse. That's a risk I couldn't take, with my recent history of feeling bad quickly and ending up chez l'hôpital.
I will try to get my sh*t together and talk to him about this first thing in the session. It's gonna be hard. Really hard. I have a thing where I don't want to criticize my T. But if I have poise, I will feel more confident putting myself out there. Or maybe I will just use the extra time to build a wall around myself that I won't allow him to penetrate.
I know that he is very good at what he does. I feel like I've come a long way this year. I don't want to jeopardize that. So many fears. I'm scared.
-Ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:31:05
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today., posted by Angela2 on May 13, 2008, at 20:02:55
> ((((Llurpsienoodle))))
> Please be good to yourself as you deserve it. If it were possible, I'd send you a get well package with a teddy bear and cuppie cakes and an aromatherapy candle.
> ang2this was so nice, you made me cry :')
And this coming from someone who is insecure about a friendship? Gimme a break! you make a wonderful friend. How'd you know that I need a cupcake? ((((cupcake))))
Thank you for your kindness. I don't feel I deserve it, but I will accept it nonetheless
-Ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:40:21
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor » llurpsienoodle, posted by ClearSkies on May 13, 2008, at 20:34:49
> > The thing is that T never sends me bills, he expects me to know what my copay is and keep track of it. I know it's at least 500 dollars, probably more since I paid him. I was hoping he had been forgetting it.
> >
>
> Just on a practical note, it would probably help you keep better track of T expenses if he would at least hand you a bill at the end of a session. My T and I keep the paperwork side very short and just on a carbonless receipt - so she's got a copy of what she's billed me too.I'm trying to figure out how much I owe him per session. I think it's about 10.90 cents. I have to double check this. Then I can give him a check at the end of every session and be done with the guilty feelings. better yet, I can mail him the check.
>
> I hate, *hate* talking about money. But at least we've got a paper trail of some kind. I'm not trying to make excuses for you - but your T has been expecting you to keep track of your copays in your head? WTF? (He must have a lot of people who owe him money by now with this kind of practice.)funny thing- he takes the therapy part very seriously, but not the billing part. I think he is careful to get paid by the insurance company, but not so careful to get paid by me. I get a letter from the insurance company "the portion you owe your provider is $xx.xx, which you may have already paid. So it's a place to start.
>
> ((((LlurpsieNoodle)))) I know how stressful it is to worry about bills and unexpected ones like the dentist. You'll get through this - it won't get cleared up overnight, but it will get better.
>
> CSI hope you're right. After I woke up from stupor, I got out all the old insurance papers. I owe him between $250-$350. It's not exact, because I don't know about the services in March, 2008. How many times I went, etc. This is right around the time that I moved, so it's no wonder that this paper got lost in the shuffle. I'm going to have to ask about this paper.
I do feel better, even overnight. Funny how a few hours of sleep will do that. Been up since 5 though. this is a bad trend. At least kitty is keeping me company this early morning.
ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:43:58
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor, posted by Nadezda on May 13, 2008, at 20:45:48
> Llurpsie, maybe this is more about your grieving for you kitty than the money.
>
I broke down crying and had to ask T for a tissue, which I've never done before.> Are you punishing yourself for grieving, for feeling this loss, for having perhaps not protected your kitty?
yes
>
> The money is an issue-- but I don't think it's the real issue at the moment. You'll have a job, and will be more responsible about the money. Maybe you were a bit hypomanic; maybe you had unexpected dental bills-- or didn't account as much for them as was best--
>
> but the emotions about your kitty seem to have plunged you into the emotions of the moment, the self-blame and self-punishment.
>
> And I think you should call your T if you're in this much pain-- whether you've paid him in a timely way or not.
>I feel he is sick of hearing about the kitty, and the kitty's body. It was traumatic to find the kitty in the way we did. gruesome, even
> And, by the way, you're not ripping him off-- you will pay him.-- Perhaps that's become another reason to punish yourself-- but you don't deserve this outpouring of blame.
I feel I do, but I guess you're right. You have good insight
>
> It's important not to hurt yourself-- and not to deprive yourself of his help, if you need it. Try, if you possibly can, to reach out--- even if part of you doesn't want to.none of me wishes to reach out. I just want to keep my pain and self-hatred self-contained. Ergo, I don't call him until I feel better. The fair-weather patient.
-Ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:46:17
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor, posted by Phillipa on May 13, 2008, at 21:06:29
I never thanked you for providing that link before. It was useful to me. I thought (arrogantly?) that I would be done grieving within a few days, or maybe a week. I don't have much practice with this kind of thing. I *did* cry when I read the poem about the little pets making it to a better place.
maybe there is a link between money and grief. that's an interesting idea.
-ll
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:51:27
In reply to Re: I woke up with stupor, posted by rskontos on May 13, 2008, at 21:58:41
> Ll, money is the root of all evil and guilt, I say. It is a hard subject for all. Causes more marriages and friendships to break and it is surprising to me how many people can justify things in the name of it. But don't justify to us you beating yourself up over it.
oh
>Especially to yourself to over your T who I know would not want you to do this.
I'm projecting that he *does* want to punish me. That way he will fit the mold of (most) other men in my life (h excluded).
>He needs to bill you. Just ask, and say I really need a bill from time to time because the calculator in my head is busted. And laugh and I am sure he will too. That is all. Then pay him what and when you can and he will be ok. I am sure of it.
I hope you're right. This will necessitate having a discussion with him. even if i write him a letter explaining what pain this subject causes for me I will still have to discuss it in therapy.
This is so horrible.
>
>
> Don't send yourself over the edge over this as it is not worth it. Or we will have to send you thousands of cyber hugs as punishment. Seriously, you are doing great, so don't think that you are due for something to happen.
>you really think I'm doing great? It's so easy to forget that , when I'm doing sh*tty. MarriageT has me keeping a journal about when my good days are and when my bad days are. I had smiles for the last 15 days and one frownie yesterday. Part of me feels doomed to always return to a dark place. a place where I cease to will to live, where I want to hurt. WHY? what the hell is the matter with me??!
Well this discussion is probably outside the topic of this thread.
> We all make money mistakes.
>
> rsk
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2008, at 9:44:29
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today. » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:27:07
> Or maybe I will just use the extra time to build a wall around myself that I won't allow him to penetrate.
>
> I know that he is very good at what he does. I feel like I've come a long way this year. I don't want to jeopardize that. So many fears. I'm scared.
>
> -LlThere is more than one way to jeopardize it. Not allowing him to penetrate your defenses probably isn't the best way to get the most out of therapy, although it's a perfectly understandable impulse when you feel hurt. A lot of therapy seems to be trying to overcome our understandable impulses, don't you think? Why don't you tell him how scared you are? When you see him next if you don't want to call him.
You owe him some money, and he reminded you. I think in the same situation I'd feel a bit embarrassed, and maybe a bit scolded, and maybe a bit angry that he wasn't more organized in billing. But he doesn't sound angry, and it doesn't sound as if your therapy is in any jeopardy.
I think clearskies is right. It might be a good idea to take a check for your copay each session. It's way easier than trying to do the bookkeeping. If he doesn't have a problem with your doing it, it could give you one less thing to worry about. I write my checks out at home too, so just have to hand it to him.
And if you can't pay him the entire amount right now, propose a payment plan, and add it to the per session checks. I seriously doubt he'll be angry. He's more likely to be proud of you for facing this head on.
It'll be ok, really. If he left it this long to bring anything up, I don't think he's going to resent you for trying to bring yourself up to date.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 12:05:44
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today. » llurpsienoodle, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2008, at 9:44:29
Dear T,
I do not deal well with money issues. Many reasons why. I guess the simplest is that most people get awkward when discussing financial woes with someone else. I have a woe. It is that I have been spending too much money on my hobbies and making too little money for the last 2 months. It is an unpleasant feeling to be at the mercy of my husbands income, and not to feel like Im contributing to the household. We are under financial stress right now, and I am not doing my part to alleviate it.
Then there is another layer. I have been binge spending. I feel out of control when I see sparkly things; craft supplies intrigue me with their promise of making a new creation. The problem is that I already have too many projects started, and few finished. I need to work on things that get finished in one sitting, or else I lose my patience. I feel pressured to buy something to fill a void in my existence. Empty hours of the day.
Crime and Punishment. When you brought up the fact that I havent been paying my copays, I felt extremely guilty and ashamed. This also happened when you asked me for a deductible a while back. I felt like running out of the room except that I was wearing heels. Run away and dont look back. My immediate instinct was to hurt myself and cut myself deeply. I couldnt imagine ever looking you in the eye and discussing this issue. I feel I ought to punish myself and quit therapy. Mail you a check and abandon ship. I came home and zonked out with the help of klonopin. Woke up hearing things and so I medicated again. So scared Im losing my mind.
Therapy is not supposed to hurt this bad, is it? Im worried that Ill never bring it up, that it hurts so badly, or that I will wait and build up a fortress of defenses before I casually mention it. But one of my friends pointed out
There is more than one way to jeopardize it [therapy]. Not allowing him to penetrate your defenses probably isn't the best way to get the most out of therapy, although it's a perfectly understandable impulse when you feel hurt. A lot of therapy seems to be trying to overcome our understandable impulses, don't you think? Why don't you tell him how scared you are?1)because Im worried that Im just a big pain in the *ss, and not worth anyones trouble
2)what if talking about it only makes me feel worse? Thats not a good risk to take when Im already feeling fragile
3)vulnerable is bad. Vulnerable makes me weak, and bad things happen to me when Im weak. People are bad to me when Im weak.
4)I dont deserve your help. You are too good for me.The natural conclusion is that I will keep the pain to myself and when/if it becomes unbearable I will medicate the hell out of myself, or cut my arm, or some other juvenile coping mechanism. (shame about my coping mechanisms).
Ask me sometime about how my parents dealt with money. About the shame I had whenever I needed lunch money. About how Id rather steal than ask. About how some kids in my family got all the toys they wanted and I had to beg for lunch money.
*************
dinah, you're the one I quoted. just wanted to state that for the recordthank you for food for thought. This stuff is so hard.
I feel I'm about to be sick.
Posted by widget on May 14, 2008, at 12:15:32
In reply to Dear T. self-injury triggers » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 12:05:44
How about: Dear T, I have issues with money. I was so ashamed when you mentioned my co-pays. I know I owe you money. I need to know how much and then work out a payment plan. I value you very much and in no way mean to imply differently by my bad money habits.
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2008, at 12:53:38
In reply to Dear T. self-injury triggers » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 12:05:44
I didn't mean to upset you.
Money's hard. I'm not minimizing that. I too overspend. I always get obsessed and think "If I just had this, I'll be happy." Of course, it never works. Not even short term. I rarely bring it up in therapy. When I do, he rarely presses me on the topic so I let it slide.
I do understand all the feelings that money can bring up. It's way harder for me than sex. Do you trust your therapist to discuss this gently with you?
Posted by raisinb on May 14, 2008, at 13:08:06
In reply to something bad happened in therapy today., posted by llurpsienoodle on May 13, 2008, at 16:33:06
Llurpsie, I don't have any huge wisdom to add, but I wanted to echo what others have said. *Everyone* runs into money issues now and then. It does *not* mean anything about you.
I think the way your T handles copays isn't helpful, and I also think he could have waited until a better time to bring it up, when you weren't already upset about money woes. I'm sure he did *not* mean to make you feel guilty or worthless. I agree with everyone, call him or at least tell him how you feel at your next session.
Posted by MidnightBlue on May 14, 2008, at 13:43:23
In reply to Re: something bad happened in therapy today. » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 5:27:07
Could you write it down and hand him a note? Sometimes that is easier.
MB
Posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 14:02:40
In reply to Re: Dear T. self-injury triggers » llurpsienoodle, posted by Dinah on May 14, 2008, at 12:53:38
> I didn't mean to upset you.
>
you didn't upset me. I was already upset. No worries...actually your post to me was right on topic. what i needed to hear.
thank you for you post, really
-Ll
Posted by Dinah on May 14, 2008, at 17:30:25
In reply to Re: Dear T. self-injury triggers » Dinah, posted by llurpsienoodle on May 14, 2008, at 14:02:40
Thanks, llurpsie.
I hope you feel better soon.
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