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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
Getting to be officially suicidal, anyway. My depression gets worse and worse. I had a terrible session yesterday where my therapist was in her cold, withdrawn mode and I therefore couldn't speak for half of the session. That was the last straw.
I lay awake most of the night making plans, figuring out how to get it done and to get everything tied up before then.
I know people will suggest taking meds. But what is the point of taking a bunch of pills to continue a life that's pointless in the first place? It's just silly.
I wish there were people who would help you. Like Kervorkian. Are there people like that? I am afraid by myself I will screw it up.
Posted by Happyflower on May 2, 2008, at 10:14:29
In reply to guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
(((((raisin)))))))))
Please call your T or go to the emergency room. Keep posting, okay I care.
Posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:18:45
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Happyflower on May 2, 2008, at 10:14:29
Thank you HF, I can't call her, she doesn't know what to do.
I will be okay for now without going to the hospital I think, mostly because I don't have anything in the house I can use. My knives are too dull, don't own a gun, the only pills I have are about eight Lunesta and some antibiotics.
Posted by Happyflower on May 2, 2008, at 10:22:07
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » Happyflower, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:18:45
Sounds like maybe you need a different T, is she can't help you now.
You are not alone Raisin. Please go to the hospital before you do anything.
So what is on your mind right now?
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2008, at 10:30:47
In reply to guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
Medication isn't to help you continue a pointless life. It's to help you combat the lies your brain is telling you that your life *is* pointless. Depression lies.
You've been posting more here lately, and you've helped me and I've seen you help others. Even if that's all the people you've ever helped, and I really doubt that's true, your life hasn't been pointless. Your life touches the lives of others. To me, that is the point of life.
If your therapist can't help you, if she's not doing what you need right now, it's ok for you to insist that she do what she needs to do. If medication will help you hold on right now, it may not be the total answer but it will give you time to find the answer or answers.
Give her a chance to come through for you, if you're more clear about what is going on with you and what you need her to do.
Posted by muffled on May 2, 2008, at 11:43:21
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2008, at 10:30:47
Ya I not been around much, but I been liking your posts raisin.
Depression sucks. But can be emminently treatable.
And yes, meds can help get you over the hump.
Did for me.
If your T truly is not working for you, maybe you need to get her to support you in finding a T that works better with you?
Please take care and keep trying.
Dinahs right, depression lies, depression blinds you.
Thats why I refer to it as being in a hole, a black hole, where you can see no way out. There IS ways out, but you just can't see them, and thats where outside help is good, and meds too. Meds can be like a light, so you can see easier the helpers trying to help you outta the pit.
Take care,
M
Posted by Phillipa on May 2, 2008, at 11:45:58
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2008, at 10:30:47
Well I have to admit I can relate to you as I feel the same a lot. But I'm not even sure meds can help as they say it's inside each and everyone one of us. But just maybe the hospital might be a good place while you think things through with the help of maybe some meds and professionals. Are you on meds now? Please be safe. Love Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on May 2, 2008, at 16:22:41
In reply to guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
I'm with DInah on this one 100%. Your life has touched me too.
I say get on that phone and call your therapist tell her how you feel and how you felt after the last session and what you need from her.
Give her a chance to respond. She either will or she won't, but she might be able to really help you with this.
I had pretty much written off my T but then once he became aware of the dire straits I was in, he really stepped up to the plate.
Yours might too.
Seldom.
Posted by Daisym on May 3, 2008, at 14:21:26
In reply to guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
I'm not in a good place to respond to this because I relate so totally to what you wrote. Only for me, it isn't about pointless, it is about too hard, too much, etc.
All I can do is ask you some of the same questions that my therapist asks me: "Is there anything holding you here and if so, what is it? Who will be the most hurt if you take your own life? Who do you think will miss you and why?"
The other question is this: "Can you wait?" If it is the deceptive voice of depression whispering in your ear, then waiting allows this to ease off. Many times suicidal feelings are feelings that pass and really don't require action. If you can give yourself an hour, a day or a week, you might find more and more reasons for living, or at least, for not dying.
As far as your therapist, the harsh reality is that if you are intent on taking your life, no one can really stop you. Recognizing that it is up to you is kind of scary - it does not appeal to our desire to be rescued or taken care of. Only we can sort out what the message is in these impulses - is this a cry for help? Is this "I'm done" or is this the only way to really show how much you are hurting inside and how hopeless you feel? Can you find another way to convey this message - like writing it out - or is this the only way?
I don't believe God wants us to live in pain and unhappiness. But I'm not sure he wants us to give up on the possibility of happiness either. I wish I had THE answer to how to feel like we are living a life of purpose. I do know that starting where you are, with what you have, is the only way to begin to find your purpose.
I hope today is a better day for you.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:38:05
In reply to guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by raisinb on May 2, 2008, at 10:10:34
I left the power cord for my computer at work on Thursday and just got it back. But it was wonderful to read all these posts this morning.
I am doing a little bit better. I have spent the weekend crying and staying in bed, but I haven't done anything self-destructive.
I have definitely decided to go to therapy tomorrow and tell my therapist exactly how I feel. I am scared that the session might make me even worse--erode the tiny bit of progress in my mood I've made this weekend--but then my therapy is too important to me, I have invested too much, to simply walk away from this issue.
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:43:07
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2008, at 10:30:47
Dinah, you're right. I'm the poster child for refusing to say what I need, though. I know it's important to do that. But I also believe strongly that either a person really cares about you, or they don't, and there are some things that you just can't ask for, because they have to come unbidden. Like speaking in a warm, caring voice, or staying emotionally present.
I know most people would agree with you that "depression lies." There are times when I've loved my life, been happy, and seen the meaning, but mathematically speaking, there are probably more times I've felt like this. How do you know which is the lie?
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:44:44
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by muffled on May 2, 2008, at 11:43:21
Hi muffled,
Thank you. I wish my T would support me in finding another T. She refuses. Whenever I bring it up she says things like "no matter how hard you try to push me away I am still gonna be here." This is great but I feel like she is not hearing me.
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:47:50
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs*, posted by Daisym on May 3, 2008, at 14:21:26
Thank you so much, Daisy.
I think for me, suicide is a response to the overwhelming feeling of "I want out." I just want out. When I am in session, I say that over and over and over and cry. I can't get a break from being myself and living this pointless life. I can't even get a break when I sleep because I don't sleep well, I have terrible nightmares, and when I wake up it all comes crashing down on me that I am still here and I still have to get up and do this. It is just intolerable.
Those other possibilities--a cry for help, a demonstration of just how bad it is--are true too, they are smaller parts of it.
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:49:15
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by seldomseen on May 2, 2008, at 16:22:41
You are right seldom, and she has certainly come through for me before.
But not always. And when she doesn't it's awful. So already feeling so bad, it's hard to take such a risk.
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2008, at 13:41:56
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » Dinah, posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:43:07
> But I also believe strongly that either a person really cares about you, or they don't, and there are some things that you just can't ask for, because they have to come unbidden.
My therapist and I have actually talked about this. I'm a relatively pragmatic person, and if I'm not getting what I want I say so in as gentle but direct a way I can. What we've decided is that it isn't having these things come unbidden that is the proof of caring, it's the being willing to listen and try to provide what the other needs that is the proof of caring. That's what we've worked out together anyway, and it works for us.
There are times when my therapist's voice is less than warm and caring. And there are times when he isn't emotionally present. But if I point something out as an issue to me that day or in general, or if I tell him that another day problem solving might be ok but today I need some caring and warmth dangit, he responds nondefensively and with attention to my stated needs. And sometimes the answer is no. "I don't feel that being supportive is what's best for you right now." "I just am unable to be as fully present as you deserve right now and that has nothing to do with you or my caring for you."
> I know most people would agree with you that "depression lies." There are times when I've loved my life, been happy, and seen the meaning, but mathematically speaking, there are probably more times I've felt like this. How do you know which is the lie?
Hmmm... I'm going to have to adapt this from old Sunday School lessons, so please forgive any awkwardness. But you can tell which is the truth and which is a lie by comparing those feelings or thoughts with what you know to be true. If you compare each thought to global truths, the sort of things you would say to others and the sort of thing you would say if asked in a way that left out emotional entanglement, which would you say was more likely to be true? Does your store of general beliefs and wisdom say that people in general live such worthless lives that they don't deserve to be alive? Or that there are relatively normal decent people whose lives are so devoid of meaning that they don't deserve to live? Is that something you would say to someone else? What objective criteria do you think you would use to tell me, for example, that my life is without worth? If I didn't see any meaning in my life, what would you tell me?
If you evaluate the two divergent feelings in light of your global impersonal knowledge, which do you think is a lie? Or could the truth lie somewhere in between? If I were to be totally honest with myself, I'd say my life has meaning, but perhaps not as much meaning as it could have. That I've made choices that have me in a less than ideal place. And that if I start right now making better choices about my priorities, I could have a more meaningful and joy filled life. And I'd also acknowledge that joy and happiness don't come as easily to me as they do to some. And that my life will have its fair share of not-joy. And more than its fair share of anxiety, terror, and abject misery.
It's been my own personal experience that truth rarely lies in the extremes. And most often there is a bit of truth in whatever I'm currently feeling or thinking. Just enough truth to make the lie more seductive.
Posted by Dinah on May 4, 2008, at 13:48:01
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » muffled, posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 10:44:44
If she can't hear you when you state this as clearly as you can, she just might not be the therapist you need. If you think about leaving her, do you feel more of a kneejerk rejection of the idea, or a feeling of relief?
I've lately been feeling like my therapist isn't hearing me when I say that I am at this point wanting more exploration and less pure support. But I'm too attached to him to consider doing any more than continuing to hammer away until he hears me. And I have every confidence that he will hear me, probably at just the moment when I'd like him to switch to pure support for a while.
Are you very attached to her?
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 16:28:40
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2008, at 13:41:56
<My therapist and I have actually talked about this. I'm a relatively pragmatic person, and if I'm not getting what I want I say so in as gentle but direct a way I can. What we've decided is that it isn't having these things come unbidden that is the proof of caring, it's the being willing to listen and try to provide what the other needs that is the proof of caring. That's what we've worked out together anyway, and it works for us.
I like this idea, and my therapist does provide concrete things that I ask for, or tell her work. Since she refuses to say directly that she cares about me, however, it's problematic to talk about things as honestly as you and your therapist do. I can cite many, many instances in the past few years when I think she's shown caring.
But what if I was wrong? Then I'd lose them. The memories and what I have internalized. So I am too scared to talk about what I need when it relates to knowing that she cares. Because of this boundary of hers things on this subject have gotten very tangled.
<Hmmm... I'm going to have to adapt this from old Sunday School lessons, so please forgive any awkwardness. But you can tell which is the truth and which is a lie by comparing those feelings or thoughts with what you know to be true. If you compare each thought to global truths, the sort of things you would say to others and the sort of thing you would say if asked in a way that left out emotional entanglement, which would you say was more likely to be true? Does your store of general beliefs and wisdom say that people in general live such worthless lives that they don't deserve to be alive? Or that there are relatively normal decent people whose lives are so devoid of meaning that they don't deserve to live? Is that something you would say to someone else? What objective criteria do you think you would use to tell me, for example, that my life is without worth? If I didn't see any meaning in my life, what would you tell me?
If you evaluate the two divergent feelings in light of your global impersonal knowledge, which do you think is a lie? Or could the truth lie somewhere in between? If I were to be totally honest with myself, I'd say my life has meaning, but perhaps not as much meaning as it could have. That I've made choices that have me in a less than ideal place. And that if I start right now making better choices about my priorities, I could have a more meaningful and joy filled life. And I'd also acknowledge that joy and happiness don't come as easily to me as they do to some. And that my life will have its fair share of not-joy. And more than its fair share of anxiety, terror, and abject misery.>
First of all, I thought this was beautiful, not awkward :)
I know I would never tell anyone his or her life lacked meaning. I don't think one can decide that from the outside. I want to believe that there is a purpose to things, but it is hard. I am only intermittently religious; my halfhearted Catholic upbringing (combined with my mother's very odd New Agey tendencies) didn't leave me much.
I *know* things have a purpose sometimes. Other times I don't. And I can't seem to control the switching back and forth. I can't seem to find a way to keep the meaning when it doesn't just happen to me. I know that probably doesn't make much sense.
It might be less that I believe I don't deserve to live, as that I just don't feel like I want to right now. And because I feel I am not that important to others, I don't think there is much holding me here.
I know what I would tell me if I were someone else. I try to tell myself these things but my inner voice lacks any conviction, you know? And it is so hard to try.
Posted by raisinb on May 4, 2008, at 17:45:13
In reply to Re: guess I'm getting there *suicide trigs* » raisinb, posted by Dinah on May 4, 2008, at 13:48:01
Attached? That doesn't even begin to describe it :). I feel like there are big ropes coming out of my internal organs, tied to her at the other end.
I did leave once, for about six weeks. I was determined I'd pull it off, but it didn't go so well. I got depressed and lost so much weight people were constantly freaking out when they saw me. I did TRY, but it felt like heroin withdrawal (not that I know what that feels like). I even tried two other therapists. It felt so bad and fake to see someone else I never went back. So switching is kind of scary.
This is why I want her to dump me. Because I can't do it myself.
This is the end of the thread.
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