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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunnydays on December 7, 2007, at 17:41:15
We were missing the close feeling today again. I was trying so hard to tell about this dream I had that is easily the worst dream I have ever had in my life and that is like this scene from a book I read. My mom gave it to me in 3rd or 4th grade to read, it's about this kid who is abused horribly - some of the things in that book made me feel sick when I read them, and they still make nauseous. I think it was one of the reasons I thought that things that happened to me must not have been that bad and that I must be making them up.
I tried to tell my T the specifics, but all I managed to tell him was the above part. I tried to go farther, but I just couldn't. Eventually he said, "I think you're trying too hard to push through this. I don't think you need to push yourself, the little girl is what's making you uncomfortable, and she's obviously not ready to talk about it. It's ok not to say things, even if you think they're important. Let's move away from it."
And so we did, sort of. I all of a sudden started crying because I hadn't felt close to him all session, and I told him he felt far away. And he said, "Well, I do feel kind of farther away. It's hard to stay as present here when we're not talking back and forth. Not that that's something I expect from you, but I think you can trust your intuition. You definitely were picking up on something."
And of course then I started crying more because I like feeling close to him so much and then it's so hard when I feel disconnected. And I said that, and that it was my fault. And he was in his challenging mode and was saying, well you can go there if you want, but it's probably more helpful to focus on why you feel sad, which is that you want to feel cared about.
And then we had to stop. And it felt so abrupt, I just started sobbing. And I left, and I was actually angry when I left. But then I got home and I called him, and he was perfect on the phone, telling me I did the best I could when I was there, and that's all anyone could expect of me, and that he's there and he'll see me soon.
And I just miss him so much. I wanted to hug him and hit him at the same time when I left. And four days seems a very long time to wait to see him again. The little girl part of me is tantruming I think.
And I just feel like we've been disconnected a lot lately. Last session towards the end I asked if he ever got mad at me, and he told me that sometimes he got impatient, but that it wasn't about me, it was just a feeling people got when they were pressured by a couple things. But hearing him say he got impatient just crushed me and I cried so much. But then it felt like it went away and I had two really good days before I went in today. But then today's session I was feeling really disconnected and distracted and really had a hard time concentrating.
I don't know. I wish this whole therapy thing was easier.
sunnydays
P.S. Does anyone know why my T would ask me if I ever heard things when I got distracted? When I'm distracted I just sort of stare at something and get lost in it, and might just trail off in the middle of something, but I definitely don't hear things. Why would he ask that?
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2007, at 19:10:42
In reply to not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by sunnydays on December 7, 2007, at 17:41:15
> We were missing the close feeling today again. I was trying so hard to tell about this dream I had that is easily the worst dream I have ever had in my life and that is like this scene from a book I read. My mom gave it to me in 3rd or 4th grade to read, it's about this kid who is abused horribly - some of the things in that book made me feel sick when I read them, and they still make nauseous. I think it was one of the reasons I thought that things that happened to me must not have been that bad and that I must be making them up.
*what were you doing reading a book like that in gr 4?
I tend to minimize and disbeleive as well. Which I think angers parts. Alot.
>
> I tried to tell my T the specifics, but all I managed to tell him was the above part. I tried to go farther, but I just couldn't. Eventually he said, "I think you're trying too hard to push through this. I don't think you need to push yourself, the little girl is what's making you uncomfortable, and she's obviously not ready to talk about it. It's ok not to say things, even if you think they're important. Let's move away from it."*ya mebbe you not feeling safe, its a hatd place to find....
>
> And so we did, sort of. I all of a sudden started crying because I hadn't felt close to him all session, and I told him he felt far away. And he said, "Well, I do feel kind of farther away. It's hard to stay as present here when we're not talking back and forth. Not that that's something I expect from you, but I think you can trust your intuition. You definitely were picking up on something."*ok that sucked OK.
> And of course then I started crying more because I like feeling close to him so much and then it's so hard when I feel disconnected. And I said that, and that it was my fault. And he was in his challenging mode and was saying, well you can go there if you want, but it's probably more helpful to focus on why you feel sad, which is that you want to feel cared about.*sigh....sometimes we just don't click in T....
>
> And then we had to stop. And it felt so abrupt, I just started sobbing. And I left, and I was actually angry when I left. But then I got home and I called him, and he was perfect on the phone, telling me I did the best I could when I was there, and that's all anyone could expect of me, and that he's there and he'll see me soon.*ahhh angry, this I can relate to.
>
> And I just miss him so much. I wanted to hug him and hit him at the same time when I left. And four days seems a very long time to wait to see him again. The little girl part of me is tantruming I think.*proly eh, hard to be an adult with a tantrummming chuld inside. Damned uncomfortable all right.
>
> And I just feel like we've been disconnected a lot lately. Last session towards the end I asked if he ever got mad at me, and he told me that sometimes he got impatient, but that it wasn't about me, it was just a feeling people got when they were pressured by a couple things. But hearing him say he got impatient just crushed me and I cried so much. But then it felt like it went away and I had two really good days before I went in today. But then today's session I was feeling really disconnected and distracted and really had a hard time concentrating.*some sessions just suck. But some are good, and everything in between. I think he is being honsest w/you as he can SD and that is GOOD. For me it is EVERYTHING. My T goto be honest, cuz i guess despite the fact I trust her, I seem to spend much time distrusting her...
> I don't know. I wish this whole therapy thing was easier.
*yea ME TOO
> P.S. Does anyone know why my T would ask me if I ever heard things when I got distracted? When I'm distracted I just sort of stare at something and get lost in it, and might just trail off in the middle of something, but I definitely don't hear things. Why would he ask that?
*well if you just kinda trail off, he's proly wondering where you go.
Are you having an internal dialogue? External dialogue? Are you going other places etc.
Just to help him understand where you at is all.
Mebbe you could try and describe how it is for you.
Then he could help to bring you back when you go.
Just my thots ((SD))
M
Posted by antigua3 on December 7, 2007, at 19:49:00
In reply to not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by sunnydays on December 7, 2007, at 17:41:15
I'm sorry it was so hard for you, but you seemed to be doing all the right things.
That comment about do you hear things? I hear things sometimes, and often they are just snippets of what might have been said during the really, bad times so my pdoc and t are always interested in that. It's ok, though, don't worry about it.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2007, at 21:55:59
In reply to not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by sunnydays on December 7, 2007, at 17:41:15
I wouldn't worry about his question. My therapist said that I used to look like I was watching angels dance in the corner of the room. It took him forever to ask what it felt like on my side. I think that's all he meant. He wants to know what you're experiencing when you aren't with him.
Could your mother's insinuations be affecting your ability to feel close? Just a thought...
Posted by Maria01 on December 7, 2007, at 23:37:30
In reply to not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by sunnydays on December 7, 2007, at 17:41:15
Boy, do I understand that feeling of having your T feel so far away. I had my first session like that just this week. It was the first time I felt like my T was far away..and this was BEFORE all the stuff I mentioned in my post.
I wish I knew how to bring that close feeling back on both our behalfs...it would make T a lot more bearable, I think.
Posted by Daisym on December 8, 2007, at 11:45:53
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long » sunnydays, posted by Maria01 on December 7, 2007, at 23:37:30
Please take this as being said really gently...
Maybe you have become so anxious about feeling close or not feeling close that you aren't focused on your stuff. And in my experience, when I let go and talk about my stuff, we feel close. He is present and it isn't such a struggle to pry things out of me. I know it is hard not to keep a death grip on that connection -- it is really important. But if you can focus away from it, it usually naturally comes back.
The other thing that happens to me frequently is that when I'm really trying to tell him something that is upsetting but I can't get to it, and then he says, "let's leave it for now" -- I feel dropped. And sometimes scolded. There is relief from the adult side that wants to push it all away but the little kid feelings are abandoned by us both and I get angry and sad. Especially if it happens at the end of the week.
Almost always when we talk about this it comes down to me wanting to be rescued by him - rescued from the memories and rescued from my struggle for the right words. I want him to talk and tell me what I'm feeling, make the connections and then fix it. But it just doesn't work that way.
And he has said that sometimes he wants to rescue me from what is clearly painful, so he might move us away from something too soon,and he needs to watch his own feelings around that.
I wish this process was easier too.
Posted by muffled on December 8, 2007, at 13:22:31
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by Daisym on December 8, 2007, at 11:45:53
*That post of Daisys is SO cool.
Its SO true for me.
Thanks daisy.
SD maybe it can help you too?>The other thing that happens to me frequently is that when I'm really trying to tell him something that is upsetting but I can't get to it, and then he says, "let's leave it for now" -- I feel dropped. And sometimes scolded. There is relief from the adult side that wants to push it all away but the little kid feelings are abandoned by us both and I get angry and sad. Especially if it happens at the end of the week.
*THATS IT. Crumb I feel so dumb, I really think thats whats happening. Duuuuhhh. I think that one of my kids gets furious bout it. OMG, thats it. I think it is. She feels dropped, mebbe a little rejected. Then she gets mad.
Almost always when we talk about this it comes down to me wanting to be rescued by him - rescued from the memories and rescued from my struggle for the right words. I want him to talk and tell me what I'm feeling, make the connections and then fix it. But it just doesn't work that way.
*Sigh. I just want T to magically make it go away and then I don't even goto go there. I want HER to figure it out FOR me, cuz i lazy and I don't wanna go there. I want her to magically just figger it, and then it magically goes away and don't bother us no more.
And he has said that sometimes he wants to rescue me from what is clearly painful, so he might move us away from something too soon,and he needs to watch his own feelings around that.
*EXACTLY, I notice at the slightest sign of discomfort my T tends to back off....I should ask her bout that. I dunno why she do that, cuz really, I not so bothered. Its weird, I may LOOK bothered, but in my head, I dunno, but its no big deal in my head. I dunno why that is. Like I kinda freaked a coupla weeks ago, but it don't bother me, no big deal, whatever. Weird. Anyhow I digress.
Mebbe I copy and send in this post to T if noone minds.
Thx,
M
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:25:09
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by muffled on December 7, 2007, at 19:10:42
> *what were you doing reading a book like that in gr 4?
**** Let's just say my mom has very bad judgment... and I had to read books for young adults anyway when I was that age because the others were too easy for me. But there were certainly choices that would have been better.
> I tend to minimize and disbeleive as well. Which I think angers parts. Alot.
**** I think my little girl just gets frantic and abandoned-feeling when I do that. And then I get even clingier to T.
> *proly eh, hard to be an adult with a tantrummming chuld inside. Damned uncomfortable all right.
**** Yes indeed. I was stomping my feet on the ground the other day because I couldn't find words to tell my T in an email how I was feeling. It was a really intense feeling, but there were no words, it seemed like.
> *some sessions just suck. But some are good, and everything in between. I think he is being honsest w/you as he can SD and that is GOOD. For me it is EVERYTHING. My T goto be honest, cuz i guess despite the fact I trust her, I seem to spend much time distrusting her...
>**** Yes, he is definitely being honest. And realistically, I think that is good for me. It helps me see him as more human, I think. More real. And that is a good thing, since I tend to idealize him, and want him to be perfect.
> *well if you just kinda trail off, he's proly wondering where you go.
> Are you having an internal dialogue? External dialogue? Are you going other places etc.
> Just to help him understand where you at is all.
> Mebbe you could try and describe how it is for you.
> Then he could help to bring you back when you go.
> Just my thots ((SD))
> M**** Thanks muffled. Yeah, we've talked a lot about what happens and he already knows ways to help me come back (they don't always work, but sometimes), so that's why I was confused. But I'm not too worried about it anymore. It was just that combined with the hard session, I guess.
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:26:17
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long » sunnydays, posted by antigua3 on December 7, 2007, at 19:49:00
> That comment about do you hear things? I hear things sometimes, and often they are just snippets of what might have been said during the really, bad times so my pdoc and t are always interested in that. It's ok, though, don't worry about it.
*** Thanks antigua. That really helped. I don't ever hear anything, I just get really strong pictures that kind of replace whatever I am seeing - that's why I stare so much. But I'm not too worried about that comment anymore.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:28:49
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2007, at 21:55:59
> I wouldn't worry about his question. My therapist said that I used to look like I was watching angels dance in the corner of the room. It took him forever to ask what it felt like on my side. I think that's all he meant. He wants to know what you're experiencing when you aren't with him.
**** Yeah, but we've talked about it a lot. Maybe he was wondering if the experience has changed since we last talked about it? Also, sometimes I might look like I'm talking to myself because I move my lips, but usually it's when I'm trying to get up the nerve to say something and I'm practicing it, or I'm arguing with my irrational thoughts. But it's not that I hear anything. I just tend to talk to myself a lot is all.
> Could your mother's insinuations be affecting your ability to feel close? Just a thought...
**** Could be, but I don't feel like that's it anymore. I think maybe it was that I was just tired and having a hard time thinking and stuff. Just one of those days.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:30:22
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long » sunnydays, posted by Maria01 on December 7, 2007, at 23:37:30
> Boy, do I understand that feeling of having your T feel so far away. I had my first session like that just this week. It was the first time I felt like my T was far away..and this was BEFORE all the stuff I mentioned in my post.
**** I'm sorry your T felt far away. I've come to realize that it's just something that happens in therapy sometimes despite both of our best efforts. It's just hard to remember that in the aftermath of feeling disconnected.
>
> I wish I knew how to bring that close feeling back on both our behalfs...it would make T a lot more bearable, I think.*** It will come. Just keep acting normal and don't try too hard to get close are the things I've found that work.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:34:28
In reply to Re: not feeling close **abuse trigger?..... long, posted by Daisym on December 8, 2007, at 11:45:53
> Maybe you have become so anxious about feeling close or not feeling close that you aren't focused on your stuff. And in my experience, when I let go and talk about my stuff, we feel close. He is present and it isn't such a struggle to pry things out of me. I know it is hard not to keep a death grip on that connection -- it is really important. But if you can focus away from it, it usually naturally comes back.
**** The thing was, I was trying to focus on my stuff. And it was just this feeling I had. I think it really did come from the fact that I was distracted and having a hard time concentrating and not talking very much.
>
> The other thing that happens to me frequently is that when I'm really trying to tell him something that is upsetting but I can't get to it, and then he says, "let's leave it for now" -- I feel dropped. And sometimes scolded. There is relief from the adult side that wants to push it all away but the little kid feelings are abandoned by us both and I get angry and sad. Especially if it happens at the end of the week.**** Yeah. It's the first time I've not been able to tell him something except for one thing in the very beginning of therapy. So usually when he says we could move away, suddenly I'm able to tell him. But this time I just couldn't. And that was hard for me. And all the fears of him being disappointed in me came up.
>
> And he has said that sometimes he wants to rescue me from what is clearly painful, so he might move us away from something too soon,and he needs to watch his own feelings around that.**** Yeah, my T has said he often finds himself wanting to do things for me, talk to my group therapists and stuff instead of making me do the hard things. But he's really good about not doing that. There were only about 15 minutes left in session when he said we could move away, and he knows I have a hard time leaving, so I imagine that's why the timing was the way it was.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on December 9, 2007, at 15:36:22
In reply to OH MAN!, posted by muffled on December 8, 2007, at 13:22:31
> *That post of Daisys is SO cool.
> Its SO true for me.
> Thanks daisy.
> SD maybe it can help you too?**** It was good for me. I do struggle with feeling rejected sometimes, and my T and I both know that it can come from innocuous comments.
> *THATS IT. Crumb I feel so dumb, I really think thats whats happening. Duuuuhhh. I think that one of my kids gets furious bout it. OMG, thats it. I think it is. She feels dropped, mebbe a little rejected. Then she gets mad.
*** Sounds like you had a real insight there, muffled. Good for you!
> Mebbe I copy and send in this post to T if noone minds.fine with me!
sunnydays
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