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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
I saw my pdoc this week. It was the second time since i'd written him a letter outlining all the ways he reminded me of the hurtfulness of my father and how he made me feel. I told him I thought he was cruel, unyielding and that his boundaries were beyond strict (not calling me back when I was in real pain).
At the last appt., as I mentioned, he was like a different person. I was suspicious, but he held fast to trying to be more understanding and kind. I needed to speak with him during the week afterwards and although I said I would NEVER call him again, my pride lost out. I was worried, furious, paranoid, whatever that he had prescribed a new drug for me that caused weight gain--that he had prescribed it on purpose. Once I thought this, I stopped eating.
Well, as I already posted, he called me back and reassurred me that there was no way he would have done that to me, and he asked a most interesting question, "Why would I hurt you?" I told him that I knew that this was all about my dad, and not him, etc. but it had brought forth some very painful feelings. He promised we would talk about it when we met the next time.
this week, he needed to be remined that we had even spoken, but once reminded he got it right away. But we didn't talk about it anymore. It was interesting. He said he prefers to discuss the future rather than the past. (Huh?) Well, I happen to have some great future plans, so that topic was eliminated right away.
I told him about a book I had read, "Stolen Tommorrows" about an therapist who deals with women who have been sexually abused as children. It affected me a lot. The first part is case histories (mostly of younger women) and the second part was about his therapy, and how he treated them. I told him the book bothered me a lot, and he asked me which part. I was caught. I said the latter part, and he tried to make a joke and say oh the therapist wasn't cruel? He tried to draw me out on this, on the differences between the ideal therapy I perceived by the author, and the reality of the therapy I think he provides.
It was really difficult for me. So in the last five minutes (of course) we dived into a difficult topic I've been thinking about. SHould I be doing T with someone who reminds me so much of my father? Or are the differences just perceived? He wanted me to talk about the ideal pdoc vs the "real" one, and launched into a talk about idealism, but I got very animated. I told him I don't believe in ideals, and we had an interesting discussion, that was of course cut short.
In scheduling a next appt., I told him three weeks was too long for me to wait. He quietly and kindly said maybe we should try weekly, beginning in November.
who is this guy? Is he for real? He's so different from the guy I saw for two years. Did he just not really understand before? When he read my last opus (five pages) he said he never knew how involved I was in my therapy and how much I really thought about it.
Now I'm scared. I DO NOT want to become attached, dependent, etc. It's too painful.
On another note, did anyone see the article about the National Academies coming out with a list of efficacy of treatments for PTSD? The consensus was that reliving the trauma and going over and over it again desensitizes the trauma so that it becomes manageable. I don't do that. I can't yet.
antigua
Posted by ClearSkies on October 20, 2007, at 8:26:13
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
I'm kind of running around today, and I hope I give your post the thoughtful reply it deserves. Several things occurred to me about your pdoc's responses to your concerns.
First of all was the sense that the appointment was rather rushed, and that you didn't get to discuss all your concerns, or at least not in the depth that they require. So often with my doctors I get that feeling that I'm getting the best possible care that you can get when you're on an escalator - once you've reached the top of the stairs, it's whoops! out the door and see you next week, call me with any concerns, take care now! So I don't think that your pdoc was able to take the time to really talk about your questions.
The second thing that struck me was that he might have been concerned about triggering you, so his comment about going forward instead of looking back makes some sense. (Doesn't offer any resolution, but makes sense.) Again, time constraints could make a difference here.
His change in demeanor could just be due to his increased awareness and sensitivity to your issues. (Like maybe he took a few moments to review your chart before your appointment, which most doctors don't have the time to do.)
I think, if you're able to, listen to what your feelings are telling you about this doctor. Are you ambivalent about his treatment of you? Are you hopeful, are you confident? Do you doubt his consistency? Not trusting our own feelings is a leftover from childhood trauma, that grownups would not believe our stories. If he's triggering csa memories or feelings in you, then he's also triggering those responses, it would make sense to me. But you CAN trust your feelings and intuition, Antigua, because you're experiencing them now, as an adult, and not as a child.
Lots to think about.
ClearSkies
Posted by twinleaf on October 20, 2007, at 8:36:11
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
Does this mean that you will be having therapy on a regular basis with both a man and a woman? I have always assumed that, regardless of the gender of the therapist we see, we develop transferences based on our own unresolved problems; for example, my present T (male) sometimes appears to be my mother, emotionally, and at other times he feels more like my father. Are you finding that you have a mother transference towards your female therapist, and that you have sought out (and found) a male with whom to work on father issues? I guess it's a given that you will have every sort of feeling for him if you begin seeing him regularly. I hope he is prepared to allow you to explore your past fully, and that he is experienced with trauma issues.
I did see that recomendation. I think that is the kind of treatment most of us here are having. I know I am. My T has said expressly that he expects that I will go over and over various traumas until I don't need to any more.
Posted by RealMe on October 20, 2007, at 11:33:00
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
> On another note, did anyone see the article about the National Academies coming out with a list of efficacy of treatments for PTSD? The consensus was that reliving the trauma and going over and over it again desensitizes the trauma so that it becomes manageable. I don't do that. I can't yet.
>
> antigua
This is what my T believes. He believes it is important to get in touch with the feelings from the trauma, not just a recollection of events on an intellectual level. I don't like it, but one of the feelings I am in touch with is the sense of aloneness and lonely feeling, not empty, just aloneness even in a crowd of people. It is almost more than I can bear, to feel that way and then know how it is also associated with abuse. That's all I can say for now; it really gets to me.RealMe
Posted by Daisym on October 20, 2007, at 12:27:32
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
What does you therapist say about weekly appointments with the pdoc? I can see how it would be helpful for awhile, especially since you are being so brave and exploring the here-and-now of your relationship with him. I think this is powerful and important.
I like his question a lot, "Why would he hurt you?" It goes to the core of the abuse issues - "why? -- why me? --- etc." It also speaks to the absolute human need to separate good from bad - are people good or bad?
I have no idea why he changed, unless you've helped him think of himself as your pdoc/therapist instead of just your pdoc. My pdoc does not do therapy with me (at my request) and he has said, "it is really hard for me to not jump in there therapuetically with you right now and challenge you on some of this." He wants to help but he holds himself back -- so maybe that was part of it? And I think he is finally getting you.
You seem to be making some great progress around this. It will be scary and you may indeed develop intense feelings. But you aren't alone -- you have your therapist to help you modulate what is happening and deal with whatever hurts come up.
I'm glad your last appointment was so productive.
Posted by rskontos on October 20, 2007, at 19:35:03
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
antigua, I had one response to your post written and I deleted it. Your pdoc bothered me and I still can't articulate it. I just wanted you to know I am here and care about you. I don't think he meant to hurt you though. I do hope you feel better about the T relationship and continue to believe he has your best interest first and foremost at heart. That is all I can write now. Maybe later I can be articulate what I mean. Just know I am thinking about you and care about how you are doing. rk
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2007, at 21:32:59
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2007, at 19:35:03
Lucky you're getting excellent follow-up seeing a t and and pdoc once a week does the pdoc do theraphy too? Phillipa
Posted by Dory on October 21, 2007, at 9:20:20
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
am i right that you have a pdoc and a T? And both are doing therapy with you? i have both, therapy with one... although pdoc is getting on my nerves. That's another story.
It's good to have a good working relationship with both... and this one issue about your father/pdoc needs to be addressed either way. i'm glad he is responding well.
Posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:49:58
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa** » antigua3, posted by ClearSkies on October 20, 2007, at 8:26:13
> First of all was the sense that the appointment was rather rushed, and that you didn't get to discuss all your concerns, or at least not in the depth that they require.
..It wasn't rushed, really, it was just the bomb I dropped five minutes before the end, which is a classic move. We ended up going over the hour to discuss and will pick it up next week.
>So I don't think that your pdoc was able to take the time to really talk about your questions.
..I think you're right because the first half hour was spent on meds; he has reworked them and wanted to know how I was doing.
> The second thing that struck me was that he might have been concerned about triggering you, so his comment about going forward instead of looking back makes some sense....maybe you're right, but I don't think he should be afraid of triggering me. What he wants, I think, is for something in the here and now to trigger something (with him, probably) and then we'd work our way back. But the difference is that I don't need help in dealing with my life--I think I've got that pretty much figured out and recognize triggers that arise in relations with others. I don't need to learn how to "play well with others," my T has done a great job with that. I need help dealing with authoratative men that trigger my feelings for my father. I do know, now, though, that I will never act on these triggers with any other man again. I've learned my lesson. It never works, the attraction is never returned and I'm betrayed by the rejection. I do understand that I may have to go through this with my pdoc in order to heal, and that would be the ultimate therapy.
> His change in demeanor could just be due to his increased awareness and sensitivity to your issues...I hope this is the case.
> I think, if you're able to, listen to what your feelings are telling you about this doctor. Are you ambivalent about his treatment of you? Are you hopeful, are you confident? Do you doubt his consistency?..I'm going to ask him why he changed so much. It does leave open questions about his consistency and fears of betrayal. I think I'm more worried that he will intentionally trigger feelings in me.
thanks for your thoughtful response Clear Skies.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:54:03
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa** » antigua3, posted by twinleaf on October 20, 2007, at 8:36:11
> Does this mean that you will be having therapy on a regular basis with both a man and a woman? I have always assumed that, regardless of the gender of the therapist we see, we develop transferences based on our own unresolved problems; for example, my present T (male) sometimes appears to be my mother, emotionally, and at other times he feels more like my father. Are you finding that you have a mother transference towards your female therapist, and that you have sought out (and found) a male with whom to work on father issues? >>
..yes, you're right. My female T agrees that I need to work this out with a male, too. She is encouraging this, as long as it remains helpful to me. It's funny, but she helps me interpret my therapy with him, which helps put so much in perspective. Our whole viewpoint is that if the therapy becomes abusive, I'm out the door. And i'm strong enough to do that now. I don't mean if it just becomes difficult--I'm sure it will, but if it becomes abusive to me.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:56:00
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by Daisym on October 20, 2007, at 12:27:32
My T approves. She doesn't necessarily always agree with him, but she helps me to see things I might have missed. I have tried to work these issues through with her, but protect her so much as the mother figure. (A whole other issue!).
I just want to let the feelings out and i'm hoping he will help me. If he doesn't, like I said, I'm gone.
antigu
Posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:56:37
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by rskontos on October 20, 2007, at 19:35:03
I'd be really interested in what you have to say.
antigua
Posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:57:21
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa** » antigua3, posted by Dory on October 21, 2007, at 9:20:20
yep, at least for now.
antigua
Posted by rskontos on October 21, 2007, at 13:21:21
In reply to Update on pdoc **csa**, posted by antigua3 on October 20, 2007, at 7:43:09
Antigua, well it bothers me that first he said you would talk about something that bothered you and then you didnt. Not the part about having to be reminded I get that. Alot of therapees etc. but once reminded what not talk about it. Then the past issue. I really don't get that. I know that they want to move us on because we all might dwell in the past too long but you clearly have a past issue that needs to be dealt with. He reminds you of your father and your father affected you in the past and is that going to inhibit the future so that needs to be talked about IMHO. Now I know you had a great discussion on the book. But was that the right time. Did he lead the discussion of this therapy session or did he allow you too. That is what is fundamentally bothering me I guess. It just sounds like he had a big agenda and it is ok if you need to move forward but the part about your father and his role seems big to me and too big to ignore. I still don't think he wants to hurt you but in being open and wanting to help he needs to allow things to go deep if you need them too. I don't know if I am still able to articulate this well. Just something bothered me about the statement the past is the past and the future is the future. Because that isn't true for most of us. The past is still haunting us. Does this make any sense. Anyway, I do hope you feel better and if I am just rambling ignore me. Take care. rk
Posted by RealMe on October 21, 2007, at 20:26:16
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa** » ClearSkies, posted by antigua3 on October 21, 2007, at 10:49:58
I just wish you had a nice, gentle, caring man to work out your issues with your father and his authoritation ways. I don't like men like that, and I did not have a father. I would not go to a therapist like that either, or a pdoc. My T is also my pdoc, and he is a very gentle and caring man. This was not true of my last T who would get angry with me from time to time and totally freak me out.
RealMe
Posted by rskontos on October 23, 2007, at 11:42:32
In reply to Re: Update on pdoc **csa** » antigua3, posted by RealMe on October 21, 2007, at 20:26:16
Again, I feel like making sure everyone is ok. How are you antigua3? Doing ok? rk
This is the end of the thread.
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