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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 28. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on August 2, 2007, at 22:35:36
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker than » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by sunnydays on August 2, 2007, at 21:15:46
Lurpsie I agree with the above but give the klonopin time to kick in if not feeling better call a hospital or a crisis line. Love Phillipa
Posted by OzLand on August 2, 2007, at 23:34:58
In reply to i did all the right things and i feel darker than, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 2, 2007, at 17:46:14
Hum; I am wondering why you just go with the flow down this dangerous path. Is there something you get out of it?? I am serious. What is it you get from just letting your mind go where it may and become a spectator??? And, not call your T. Now I know how goofy (trying to use a benign word) that sounds when I say I will never email or call my therapist no matter what. Hearing you say it now leaves me feeling embarrassed that I have said the same thing before. It's what my T says about my pushing people away when I need them the most. So, I guess you have to figure out what that is about for you. For me, I know part of it is I don't want to depend on anyone because -- lots of reasons why.
Oz
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 1:36:00
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker than » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by sunnydays on August 2, 2007, at 21:15:46
things are just so hard right now.
i'm going to have to talk to T about all of this stuff tomorrow. I tricked him last session telling him that I was feeling better, at least in the am.
I struggle really hard though. When I feel more lucid I try to set up routines and things to do to feel safer. when I'm feeling really out of it and negative and pessimistic I want to be the only person in this miserable world. Left alone. To fend for myself.
And yes, this is a topic that has plagued me since forever. deep roots in not seeking help. Who could I trust when I was a wee one? when I was an adolescent? I'm finally getting to some place where I can maybe trust a therapist, and then I have to switch therapists. And switch lives at the same time.
I don't know what recovery means. I have no concept of it. I see this trajectory of where I could be right now, and where I should be right now (according to my career advisors) and I stray far from that path. I judge my darker moods against my happy moments. My happy moments are tempered by looking down at my arm and recognizing that all is not well.
And then there's the medication. Zoloft is giving me insomnia. Combination of smaller dose of sedating geodon and a larger dose of zoloft has me up at this ungodly hour, having only gotten 3 hours of sleep.
One bright side is that the cat is very affectionate at this time of night. Came right over and promptly fell asleep purring in my lap.
And I don't know what to do anymore. I think I will just tell my therapist that tomorrow morning. How much I desire some kind of change, some ray of hope, knowing that I'm not really functional in this world. Knowing that I'm not ready to leave this world.
Angry at me? think I don't know why? Have I done something that offends your sensibilities? Is it because you care, or is it because I remind you of yourself?
I hear the tolling of the windchimes next door. perhaps I'll sit and rock on the porch a bit. if I'm lucky I'll be up until sunrise.
the lilies are blossoming on the pond. and cattails too. I should take a walk.
I used to do this in Chicago- go for walks around my crime-ridden neighborhood in the wee hours. I miss that. or at least I miss the opportunity.
Well. that's it. nothing new here. just some assorted ramblings.
Ll
Posted by B2chica on August 3, 2007, at 11:07:50
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker t, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 1:36:00
((((((lurpsie))))))
i dont mean to state the obvious but i think this dark you've fallen into lately is some to do with your 'father's' comment above...i think maybe it has upset you more than you've allowed yourself to express...Just don't push it down! ok?
let yourself express about what he said makes you feel, about how angry you are at him NOW and THEN!, but also at his 'decrepidness'. his illness/injury may make your emotions occillate between anger/pity/guilt or confusion..... make sure you're body recognizes these feelings are against HIM NOT you!
heck maybe make a little cloth doll of him and stick pins in it! ... ok, maybe not, but you get the point...
sorry if im way off base here lurpsie...
but i'm sorry you are feeling so down...-make sure you talk with doc about meds.
and lurpsie...i was just so happy and proud to see you say this:>>And I don't know what to do anymore. I think I will just tell my therapist that tomorrow morning. How much I desire some kind of change, some ray of hope, knowing that I'm not really functional in this world. Knowing that I'm not ready to leave this world
-this is just so wonderful...to see such retrospect, and to see you are actively trying to swim out of where you are right now.
it impressed me...and well, quite frankly, makes me realize where i need to be.you are a great person (((((((lurpsie...))))))
take care this weekend ok?
b2c
Posted by slugdoo on August 3, 2007, at 12:29:35
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker t » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by B2chica on August 3, 2007, at 11:07:50
Didn't we both do the right things growing up? It didn't do any good because people still hurt us anyways. Why does the shadow of those people still haunt us? How dare they?
I think shinning light on them , well help them go away, Lluspie, your T can help.
My mom still tells people she doesn't understand what she did. I asked my T, did she really forget? He said probably not, she is in denial and don't want to face the truth of what she has done. He told me don't expect her to ever "realize" what she did and have remorse. I have to learn to move on without her ever realizing the depth of what she has done.I can hang out in the tunnel with ya if you would like. It would be nice and cool and not so much light. It is okay to hide for awhile, to rest, to hope things will change.
I am not sure what i am even saying Llupsie, I feel so removed from myself right now, so I will be in the tunnel if you want to visit me.
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 12:39:46
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker t, posted by slugdoo on August 3, 2007, at 12:29:35
I'm definitely in the tunnel today, because I only got about 2 hours of sleep last night (zoloft)
and it's hot here, so I can use some dank tunnel air. subterranean. I don't even mind the spider webs if it's cool enough.
you can take care of you, I know you can. And I'm going to try new T tricks to take better care of me too.
> I can hang out in the tunnel with ya if you would like. It would be nice and cool and not so much light. It is okay to hide for awhile, to rest, to hope things will change.
> I am not sure what i am even saying Llupsie, I feel so removed from myself right now, so I will be in the tunnel if you want to visit me.
Posted by Honore on August 3, 2007, at 15:20:34
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker t » slugdoo, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 12:39:46
Don't forget Llurpsie that radical medication shifts take much longer than a few days, or even a week, to stabilize. Your neurotransmitters are used to a certain amount of geodon and they don't readjust at the same rate.
You can't judge anything-- anything at all-- but how you feel this week or next. It's just going to take longer and be disruptive. But it's not you; it's medication- shifts.
I know, because I had this very same reaction when I came off parnate, which I had taken for a few years. It just takes a long time for everything to become reintegrated when you withdraw and start new things.
Try to keep in mind that you aren't where you'll be when things settle down -- and you did great work this am on the draft for the workshop-- anyone who can do that has a bright future-- so please let that memory filter through the darkness every so often.
Honore
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 16:14:52
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker t, posted by Honore on August 3, 2007, at 15:20:34
> Don't forget Llurpsie that radical medication shifts take much longer than a few days, or even a week, to stabilize. Your neurotransmitters are used to a certain amount of geodon and they don't readjust at the same rate.
yeah. my poor assaulted neurotransmitters. At least this go around has been easier than last March.
>
> You can't judge anything-- anything at all-- but how you feel this week or next. It's just going to take longer and be disruptive. But it's not you; it's medication- shifts.I would *like* to make long-term plans and look for work in my area, but I am not ready yet. I need to wait for things to stabilize.
>
> I know, because I had this very same reaction when I came off parnate, which I had taken for a few years. It just takes a long time for everything to become reintegrated when you withdraw and start new things.
>
> Try to keep in mind that you aren't where you'll be when things settle down -- and you did great work this am on the draft for the workshop-- anyone who can do that has a bright future-- so please let that memory filter through the darkness every so often.oh, that means lots to me. I'm pretty self-conscious about my writing. At least these tiny assignments keep my brain ticking along. I don't have the mental energy to be working on real-length manuscripts right now. I have 3 on my plate. maybe 4. I'm going to post separately about my employment situation. it's pretty stressful. :(
-Ll
>
> Honore
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 21:08:58
In reply to Re: i did all the right things and i feel darker than » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by sunnydays on August 2, 2007, at 21:15:46
first of all, my neurons would like to voice their appreciation for the extra 25 mg of zoloft. they seem rather pleased.
I had a really good session with T. He recognized and put voice to a lot of my inner conflicts.
He also gave me good suggestions for getting back some of the autonomy in my life, rather than just watching it pass me by. That really clicked with me. It's up to me to manage my moods, not vice versa.
And I called pdoc who had a nice phone voice and said that it would be fine to take zoloft in the morning, since I'm having such bad insomnia.
I was able to get several things done today, including pick up my Rx, buy a big calendar for the fridge (so that my husband's out of town's won't come as a complete surprise), and at one point I'm sure there weren't any dirty dishes on my desk ;)
And the best thing is that I got a call from a woman who's married to h's colleague and she invited me out to dinner, and we had a lot to talk about. she was really sweet.
Funny thing too- in therapy I mentioned how it seemed like I was getting 'homework' and T kind of flinched and I said- fine, no homework, I know you're not a CBT kind of guy. And what's up with this diabolical behavior treatment? He said that the woman who developed it has scars all over her arms. hmmm. Then he told me to look it up and give him a report about it next week, that it would probably help me & my s.i. issues. not fair! I have to do T's homework too!!!
-Ll
Posted by OzLand on August 3, 2007, at 22:48:28
In reply to feeling better today, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 21:08:58
Lurpsie
This is what I was trying to say but not so well I guess--to work on managing your emotions rather than vice versa. Some of your stuff reminds me of me from years ago, but some of it is different obviously as you are a different person. I am not angry with you, and I do care and is why I hate to see you let the mind and emotions carry you down stream. Not just from experience but from training, it is dangerous waters sometimes to go with the flow down stream. It is understandable too to think that you should be at a different point in your life. Probably everyone here who posts could stay that. It really stinks. Not fair.
Oz
Posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2007, at 23:00:09
In reply to feeling better today, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 3, 2007, at 21:08:58
Lurpsie that's wonderful. Surprised he didn't have you on the zoloft in the morning to begin with as some compare with a pot of coffee. The reason for the scars is DBT is dialectacal Behavioral Therphy. Mainly for people with issues of self harm. It's hard work but worth it from what I've read. I think Lindham or something like that is the person he referred to. Just goggle DBT it will pop right up. Chicken he was for not telling you about the scars must be from her bad days. You know there was a thread here a while ago a lot of people were going to get the workbook and do the homework together on phychology here. You can google that to or start a thread. I don't want to say who was going to do the DBT . Privacy Love Phillipa calander sounds like a super idea and glad you had some fun today. Looks like your're on your way to some great days ahead!!!!!!
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 11:33:24
In reply to Re: feeling better today » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by OzLand on August 3, 2007, at 22:48:28
> Lurpsie
>
> This is what I was trying to say but not so well I guess--to work on managing your emotions rather than vice versa.Sometimes I have to hear stuff ten thousand times before it sinks in...
>Some of your stuff reminds me of me from years ago, but some of it is different obviously as you are a different person. I am not angry with you, and I do care and is why I hate to see you let the mind and emotions carry you down stream. Not just from experience but from training, it is dangerous waters sometimes to go with the flow down stream.
Part of me recognizes the danger and seduction, it takes a lot of strength to fight it many days. I feel better since starting on the zoloft (and tapering down on the geodon). It's easier to make the right little decisions and go down the path that will lead to clarity and concentration.
_ll
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 11:40:30
In reply to Re: feeling better today » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Phillipa on August 3, 2007, at 23:00:09
> Lurpsie that's wonderful. Surprised he didn't have you on the zoloft in the morning to begin with as some compare with a pot of coffee. The reason for the scars is DBT is dialectacal Behavioral Therphy. Mainly for people with issues of self harm. It's hard work but worth it from what I've read.
I had a friend in Chicago who was doing DBT, probably borderline personality disorder, certainly depression, and a lot of self-injury compulsions. She told me a bit about how ridiculous her homework was and how much she dreaded going to group therapy. but... reluctantly she admitted that it was helping. sure beats the hospital.
I think Lindham or something like that is the person he referred to. Just goggle DBT it will pop right up.
I found a good link online with some of the sample worksheets and things.
>Chicken he was for not telling you about the scars must be from her bad days.
Awww, Phillipa, he wasn't chicken, he was just trying to underscore the fact that she developed it from her own personal experience. He went to a workshop of hers once. Perhaps one of the reasons he wasn't impressed is because he's NOT a cbt guy and this probably seemed too specific to help people with really complex problems. My T likes to look at the big picture (thank goodness).
>You know there was a thread here a while ago a lot of people were going to get the workbook and do the homework together on phychology here. You can google that to or start a thread.
I'm going to do some more research, thanks for the tips :) you've been super helpful :)
>calander sounds like a super idea and glad you had some fun today. Looks like your're on your way to some great days ahead!!!!!!
awww, thanks phillipa, you sound excited yourself.
Well, today's not much fun. We're unpacking boxes in the bedroom and I found out that clothes wadded up in boxes for 8 weeks need to be rewashed and refolded. ugh. that means about 10 loads of laundry.
-Ll
and my back already hurts. hi ho hi ho it's off to work I go...
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 11:42:11
In reply to Re: feeling better today » Phillipa, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 11:40:30
in the ongoing saga of my moods, I thought I'd share that I feel not so depressed today. depression has been replaced with mere sadness and lethargy.
I think the zoloft is already kicking in.
I made a list of goals this am. That helps too. I've already done many of them
-Ll
Posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 11:53:51
In reply to still feeling better, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 11:42:11
I'm so glad you're feeling better, as long as the apathy doesn't become its own form of oppression.
I'm feeling better too-- much less Emsam, no ritalin-- although exhausted, drained, and post-huge (justified, not panic-induced) fight with my SigO. I hope I don't further ruin the painting I ruined the day I was having my meltdown. It really shows up in the work I do now-- which I never noticed so much before. I only noticed it when I was depressed and angry. Now I see it so clearly when I'm really tired. I'm concerned that I get so tired- and when I was panicked, I could barely see straight, literally. But I see it almost every day, when I'm at all tired. Maybe I've also been having these small viruses, which I get from my T. (He seems to get them a lot.) Sorry, I"m rambling. But it's hard to realize, when it 's happening, that I"m not being careful, I'm not doing the things I need to do to keep the colors clear, just out of impatience and tiredness and vague desire to get something immediate done.
Is your day going along relatively well? Having already accomplished things early in the day-- you are so effective, Ll, you don't even realize, I think, how efficient and determined you are.
Honore
Posted by Phillipa on August 4, 2007, at 20:59:07
In reply to Re: still feeling better » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 11:53:51
Honor she's an admirable person as well as you are. Give yourself credit too. Love Phillipa
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 23:18:21
In reply to Re: still feeling better » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Honore on August 4, 2007, at 11:53:51
the power of the placebo effect. I plowed through the day thinking "I'm doing better. I'm doing better"
only now to realize that I forgot to take my meds. I took them all at once (minus the sedating ones) and went to see Jason Bourne and felt kinda high.
That was exciting, since I've never done any
"street drugs"I'm sure there's something psychological in the fact that I can't seem to take my meds everymorning. I need to put them by the tea kettle.
geez.
-Ll
Posted by sunnydays on August 5, 2007, at 7:48:29
In reply to OMG forgot to take my meds, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 4, 2007, at 23:18:21
Is it possible you were doing ok even though you forgot to take them? Not taking your meds one day doesn't mean you will automatically sink into the depths of despair. It seems like you are putting an awful lot of faith in the meds, when they are there to help you. But even though part of your mood is surely biological, part isn't. I just wonder if you could take more of a feeling of ownership over the part that isn't biological if you might start feeling better?
sunnydays
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 5, 2007, at 9:59:45
In reply to Re: OMG forgot to take my meds » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by sunnydays on August 5, 2007, at 7:48:29
> Is it possible you were doing ok even though you forgot to take them? Not taking your meds one day doesn't mean you will automatically sink into the depths of despair. It seems like you are putting an awful lot of faith in the meds, when they are there to help you. But even though part of your mood is surely biological, part isn't. I just wonder if you could take more of a feeling of ownership over the part that isn't biological if you might start feeling better?
>
Sunnydays, that's one of the things we're working on in therapy these days. me gaining a sense of empowerment over my moods and emotions. Rather than just allow them to dictate how I will feel, what I will get done etc. We're working on how I can make choices that will stop an ugly mood in its tracks, and minimizing the triggers that will cause it to arise in the first place. ownership is exactly right. I don't mind owning an elephant. Elephants require a lot of food, and they are very powerful, but they are also delicate, gentle, intelligent, sensitive and cute. Sometimes they are enraged and it's really scary, but sometimes all they need are a few bananas and they are happy with the world.right now it's especially important for me to take all my meds at the right time as prescribed. It's only been 9 days since I totally changed most of my pills, and 2 days since I upped my dose of antidepress. that means that I may have not reached steady state plasma concentration for some of my chemicals, which could induce a lot of mood swings and other unpleasantries (bad bad thoughts). Aside from some massive fatigue (forgot to take provigil) and apathy/lethargy, I felt okay moodwise. So maybe things are changing.
(((((((elephants))))))
-Ll
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 5, 2007, at 10:48:51
In reply to moods, meds and elephants » sunnydays, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 5, 2007, at 9:59:45
Hiya!
I was wondering, why do you feel the need to take meds at all? do you think that things would be any much worse unmedicated? I've found that once I ditched the various meds I was on, and the rollercoaster ride of getting on them, getting off them, my long-term quality of life has been far better. I'm not saying I don't get bad days, or weeks or months, and a good while ago unmedicated I was deeply suicidal (over a year ago now) but things have improved considerably without any sort of chemical intervention, so much so I would consider myself now anti-depressed (to use a Lurpsie-ism). Do you feel that taking meds somehow validates your condition??
Just some thoughts...
Kind regards
Meri
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 5, 2007, at 13:07:23
In reply to Re: moods, meds and elephants » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 5, 2007, at 10:48:51
> Hiya!
>
> I was wondering, why do you feel the need to take meds at all? do you think that things would be any much worse unmedicated?Hmm, well, one of my goals is to get off my meds at some point this year. I'll keep psychobabble posted on that. As long as they keep me out of the hospital and able to tolerate life's ups and downs though, I'm willing to sacrifice the money, the time, and bear the side effects.
>I've found that once I ditched the various meds I was on, and the rollercoaster ride of getting on them, getting off them, my long-term quality of life has been far better. I'm not saying I don't get bad days, or weeks or months, and a good while ago unmedicated I was deeply suicidal (over a year ago now) but things have improved considerably without any sort of chemical intervention, so much so I would consider myself now anti-depressed (to use a Lurpsie-ism). Do you feel that taking meds somehow validates your condition??
First, I'm *so* glad to hear that you're doing well with no medication. It gives me hope. I think that therapy is going to be the long-term solution for me, and will be the key to helping me manage my symptoms in the long run. The main idea at the present is to keep myself out of the hospital and able to fulfill my job responsibilities which have 4 components
-eating
-sleeping
-taking medication
-going to therapy
(the last two fall under the umbrella of "keeping myself safe")Does taking medication somehow "validate" my condition? Well, in a way, I guess it does. That's an uncomfortable admission. Needing an emergency appt. with pdoc underscores the fact that I've had a crisis etc.
I really struggle with the concept of mental illness. The medication validates my concept of being sick right now with the hope of recovery/remission if I do the right things. However in therapy we're talking about certain "vulnerabilities" and traits that I have that leave me susceptible to all kinds of crap -> symptoms of mental "illness".
> Just some thoughts...
>
> Kind regards
> Merithanks for your thoughts. tried to be honest. honesty is hard... ugh.
-Ll
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 5, 2007, at 14:08:52
In reply to Re: moods, meds and elephants » Meri-Tuuli, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 5, 2007, at 13:07:23
Hello again!
Well I see what you're saying. It does sound like a good plan. I know that when I first got dx with a mental illness, meds somehow made it much more acceptable. I just don't think they're good long term, for me anyway. But everyone is different. I haven't actually tried proper therapy myself. But anyway, yes it is important to keep oneself safe.
Take care
Meri
Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 6, 2007, at 7:06:41
In reply to Re: moods, meds and elephants, posted by Meri-Tuuli on August 5, 2007, at 14:08:52
I think the zoloft in the am helps, and T finally "clicked" with me and helped me resurrect some of my coping mechanisms. I'm back to making daily goal lists and the calendar on the fridge makes planning easy.
I worked out this am. (strength training) so that's helping too.
:)
Thank you kind sweet babblers for all of your support the last few weeks. Maybe I'm out of crisis mode. wouldn't that be nice?
-Ll
Posted by sunnydays on August 6, 2007, at 9:10:18
In reply to Wow! I feel wonderful, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 6, 2007, at 7:06:41
That's great Ll!!!! I would bet it has a lot more to do with T than the meds, as meds really do take weeks to become effective. But it's absolutely wonderful that you're feeling good today! Try not to put pressure on yourself that it has to happen again tomorrow, but enjoy it in the moment today. Maybe then it will happen again tomorrow!
sunnydays
Posted by Phillipa on August 6, 2007, at 12:42:26
In reply to Wow! I feel wonderful, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on August 6, 2007, at 7:06:41
Lurpsie it would be wonderful. Congrats. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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