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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
Well, tomorrow is it. I see my T tomorrow for the last time for 2 months, probably about 9 weeks total...
This time, it was my own stupid decision in accepting a summer teaching position in the city 2 hours away from here. It's a small private school near DC, and this will be my fourth summer teaching in the preschool. I stay with my parents for the entire two months, which is much less than ideal... but I really love the job. I knew I'd have to give up my T for 2 months if I took the job, and at the time was feeling confident I'd be fine with that, but that was before the depression hit me again. I'm also in a place with my T where I am finally beginning to lift the very edge off the figurative box and open myself up and be vulnerable with her (after almost a year). I know that I'll shut that down in 2 months. There's no way. I just about die when she goes on vacation for one week, but 2 months????
I'm not sure sure realizes quite how big a deal this is for me, but she does know I'm worried about it. We're going to talk about what to do about it tomorrow. Here are my options.. tell me what you all think.
First, I could see her maybe 2 or 3 times during these 2+ months on a weird schedule. I teach from 8-4, and COULD drive from school to her office (2 hours) after I got off and see her then. But I'm afraid I'd be too tired and brain fried to even really connect with her or say anything important. I'm not sure it'd be worth the money (in gas and in therapy bills) or if it'd even help to hold onto that connection at all. Then the next morning, I'd have to wake up at like 4:30am to drive back to school and teach all that day. Yuck.
Another option would be to see an old T in the city where I'm teaching once every other week or so. She has already agreed to do this if I decide to. I saw her during the worst period of my depression, about 5-6 years ago, for about a year total. I've also seen her for one session here and there since then, but it's been probably 2 years since the last time. She was absolutely wonderful when I did see her, but I'm not sure if it'd be worth it now, since I'd only have probably 3 sessions, and she doesnt know a thing about me anymore or where I am now. It'd be more like me paying her to catch her up than actually helping myself at all. Plus, I'd have to do it probably during nap time at my school (we have nap time in the preschool!) which means I wouldnt have any time before to mentally get myself together, or any time after to calm down if needed. I'd have to go right back to work. I just dont feel like the issues I'm working on with my current T right now (vulnerability, mostly) are things I could explain to the old T and discuss in a session or two. It's so much bigger than that.
Of course the other option is just no therapy for 2 months. I've done it before and I could certainly do it again, but eh... I just dont want to. I think it's probably what I'll end up doing. For me, I either shut down completely or keep myself open completely (which is very emotional and hard) and I'd rather shut down for 2 months than stay open and have no one to really share it with on any regular basis.
Maybe my T will have another solution in mind, but I dont think there are any others. I just feel like I'm being abandoned, left alone to fend for myself. I feel like a little kid who needs their mommy. It's just not fair that I have to go away (even though I chose it myself). I'm scared. What if things keep getting worse (as they have been)? I'll be totally alone. And I'll be living with my parents for that time, which makes everything 20x harder. (My parents were never abusive, but are very cold and detached and were neglected me growing up). I just dont know what to do... but the bottom line is, I DO know what to do, because there's only one good option. Deal for 8 weeks. Maybe it'll give me some time to figure out where I am and what my needs are. See how much I can rely on myself. Who knows. I dont think my T realizes how hard this is. I'm going to tell her tomorrow.
Sorry this is so long. Any thoughts are welcome.
Posted by orchid on June 12, 2006, at 20:13:25
In reply to no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
Posted by annierose on June 12, 2006, at 20:52:08
In reply to no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
I think she probably does realize how hard it is for you, but it's always good to talk about it as well. I don't think it's crazy to drive 2 hours to see her, to maintain some sort of connection. If I was in your shoes, I would probably make the drive. Can she see you on a Friday afternoon so you don't have to drive back so early in the morning?
I think talking with her on the phone varies a great deal from T to T. And you would have to know that it just isn't the same as in person.
Good Luck. Those children are lucky to have someone as dedicated as you to teach them!!
Posted by Jost on June 12, 2006, at 21:22:31
In reply to Re: no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by annierose on June 12, 2006, at 20:52:08
Your students are extremely lucky--that's for sure. To go for so long without seeing someone whom you've grown to depend on (even if only beginning to), and whom you see regularly is a wrench, at best.
If you and your T are comfortable with phone sessions, I'd try a combination of phone and driving to see her. Friday would be great-- for the reasons annierose gave-- and I don't know your sleep rhythms-- but if it's doable, you might surprise yourself in how much you could keep things going. It's so different if there are bridges, or stepping stones, over parts of the separation. Keeps the chasm from seeming so wide and dark, cause you can see to the next connection better.
Jost
Posted by Dinah on June 12, 2006, at 21:47:50
In reply to no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
I drove almost three hours each way to see my therapist when he was living away from here.
And when I couldn't, we had phone sessions - which weren't too bad, although a bit informal and "friend" feeling since I did them in my jammies when I first woke up. And when he was out of the country, we did email sessions. But that was *awful*. I never thought I'd find something he was worse at than phone sessions.
I'd try to find some way to keep connected with your current therapist. It's easier than trying to rebuild it later.
Posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 23:23:32
In reply to no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
I havent discussed the possibility of phone sessions yet... maybe that will come up tomorrow. It's something I'd thought of too, but I dont know how she'd feel about it. You all are right, it wouldnt be as good, but it'd definitely be better than nothing. I was thinking of asking her if she'll at least let me call occasionally, even for 5 minutes, just to tell her how I am... just to know she's still there.
Unfortunately, she doesnt work on Fridays. She saw me once on a Friday recently when it was just really necessary, but she was the one to offer it. I dont think I'd want to ask her to come in unless she offered, you know? Driving back early the next morning isnt as much of a concern though as just how brain dead I'd be by the time I got there.. I dont mind driving 2 hours at all, but 2 hours after teaching all day, I might be babbling nonsense by the time I got there! You all are right though, that would be better than nothing. At least then I'll know she isnt forgetting about me. That's my biggest fear.
I've also been thinking (since I posted that) about maybe trying to talk to my current T on the phone here and there, but not for an entire session, and seeing my old T on the side while I'm out of town. I'm not sure how either would feel about that though so I'd have to talk to them.
And thank you for all the compliments about my children being lucky to have me. I teach in the 4-year old room, and I absolutely love working with them. It's hard to feel quite so terrible all the time when theyre so happy and loving and just want to make you happy. It's the 4th year I've taught at this school, but for some reason I'm going through this "what if I dont know how to do it? what if I cant keep control? what if it all falls apart?" panic right now. I never have felt this way about it starting before. Thank you all for the compliments.
Posted by wishingstar on June 13, 2006, at 16:53:58
In reply to no more therapy for 2+ months, posted by wishingstar on June 12, 2006, at 19:52:38
... or lack of decision, that is.
I saw my T today. It was one of those sessions that feels like it never really got started, you know? We talked about several things but nothing of any depth.
About halfway through the session, she brought up the fact that it was the last one for awhile and asked if I'd decided what I wanted to do. We talked about the options. Basically, we decided to leave it open for now on whether or not I'll drive to see her or see my old T (or neither). I was hoping that she'd give me some indication at all that she thought I should keep coming, but she really didnt. She also didnt suggest phone sessions, so neither did I. I figure she'd have suggested it if she was willing to do it. I guess it's possible she would have said yes, but I'm not good on the phone anyway, so thats okay. So at the end of my session, she basically just asked to make sure I have her card (I must have 100 of them) and said to give her a call if I decide I want to come in. I wish she'd said I could call if I needed to talk.. she has never said that calling is ok.. but again, oh well. It's a lesson in asking for the things I need, I guess.
I really didnt feel like she understood how hard this is for me. I really tried my best to tell her. She knows its difficult, but I really dont think she understood. It left me again feeling like she's not the right T for me. I get that feeling so often, maybe I need to listen to it... but I know she cares too, and that is so important.
I was in tears by the time I hit the front door of the "house" (my Ts office is in an old house turned into a therapy center. she's on the 3rd floor.) Hopefully no one in the waiting room saw me. I almost turned back and walked right back into her office, to show her how sad I really was.. so she'd tell me it'd be okay.. but it wouldnt have been appropriate.
Right now, I'm leaning towards seeing my old T bi-weekly and trying to keep some connection with current T by maybe writing her letters every other week just to tell her how I'm doing. I'm going to call her later to ask if that's okay with her. I think it's the best I can do.
This just hurts. It hurts a lot. Sometimes I really do hate therapy.
Posted by Daisym on June 14, 2006, at 0:30:03
In reply to the decision, posted by wishingstar on June 13, 2006, at 16:53:58
(((Wishingstar)))
I'm sorry it hurts so much. I would be distraught, you are so much braver than I.
I think if it doesn't ease off, you might want to think about leaving a message about your sadness and asking about phone sessions. I must say that phone sessions have often helped me stay connected to my therapist. We use them routinely.
Good luck with your children. My guess is that they offer a different type of therapy, something we can all use.
Posted by Dinah on June 14, 2006, at 9:09:27
In reply to the decision, posted by wishingstar on June 13, 2006, at 16:53:58
Daisy's right. If not seeing her doesn't work out for you, please ask for what you need.
And knowing that you will ask if you need her might make it easier to not need her, if that makes sense. Or at least that's what I always find.
Posted by wishingstar on June 14, 2006, at 11:42:04
In reply to Re: the decision » wishingstar, posted by Daisym on June 14, 2006, at 0:30:03
Thank you.
I called and made an appointment with my old T for the 27th. The appt is at almost the exact time (and day) I would normally be seeing my T here.. weird, huh? I'm excited to see her again, but mostly, setting the appointment with her just made me miss my T. I feel like it'll never be as good. But I'm going to go anyway, see what happens.. I think a different perspective will be really helpful for me anyway, and it'll allow me to vent some things current T just isnt understanding. I'm trying to let my rational side overtake the emotions for now and do what makes the most sense.
I'm considering calling my current T this afternoon to ask if its okay if I write her letters or call just from time to time. I think that'd be enough for me, even if it wasnt 50 minutes, to hang onto the connection. I hope she doesnt say no though. I'm just so afraid she'll forget me and I wont cross her mind once the entire 2 months.
You're so right - the kids are a therapy all their own. It's impossible not to laugh sometimes with them.
Posted by wishingstar on June 14, 2006, at 11:45:43
In reply to Re: the decision » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on June 14, 2006, at 9:09:27
Yes, that made sense. Once you have permission, it's easier to relax... knowing it's there if you need it. That's a good point.
I scheduled an appointment with my old T today for the 27th. I talked a little more about that in my response to Daisy.
I'm considering calling my current T today, but I cant decide. I'm very afraid that she'll say no, or that her tone will say no at least. This woman has boundaries like no one I have ever seen before. And secondly, I guess I really havent forgiven her or rebuilt the trust after she didnt call when she said she would during my crisis a month or so ago. Asking for anything outside sessions is VERY scary... I'd rather just not have it than have it be refused. I guess that's a fear built out of my family growing up (you wont ever get what you ask for), but it's real too, given what happened the first time I asked her. I should probably give her a second chance, I know...
Posted by Jost on June 15, 2006, at 1:24:54
In reply to Re: the decision » Dinah, posted by wishingstar on June 14, 2006, at 11:45:43
>
>
> I'm considering calling my current T today, but I cant decide. I'm very afraid that she'll say no, or that her tone will say no at least. This woman has boundaries like no one I have ever seen before. And secondly, I guess I really havent forgiven her or rebuilt the trust after she didnt call when she said she would during my crisis a month or so ago. Asking for anything outside sessions is VERY scary... I'd rather just not have it than have it be refused.
Hi, wishingstar. I've been thinking about your situation a lot and I really resonate with what you say about how hard it is to ask, when your T has boundary issues.I saw one T for about 9 months who was like that. It was not a helpful experience.
Partly I was going through a rough time, and partly, there was something about him that elicited this desperation about not getting enough-- Some people do that w/me. It's partly them, partly me-- I'm super-sensitive to people's fear of being needed, of not having control over the other person's need-- like they can't stand it, or so it feels.
And I wouldn't have asked him in a million years for extra time, or phone calls--I had this phantasy that he would expel me from his presence in disgrace--.like the sky would open up and thunderbolts and lightening would pour down.
So I do resonate with the feeling that it's hard to ask a T who's specially uncomfortable about the tightness of boundaries, or afraid to let things spill over the safe, predetermined closure of the hour.
On one hand, I want to tell you to ask, with the thought that your T could accept and support you. But not every T can-- I hope yours can, though.
If not, maybe your old T can help you sort this out, what you need and what you can get, and why your T didn't come through for you, and leaves you feeling afraid to ask for something so reasonable, as phone calls, mail, or extra appointments over a long separation, if you need them to sustain the connection.
Even if your current T couldn't do something-- it's not good to feel that you aren't "allowed" to want it, and to ask.
Jost.
Posted by wishingstar on June 16, 2006, at 19:19:12
In reply to Re: the decision, posted by Jost on June 15, 2006, at 1:24:54
Hi jost, thanks for understanding. It really is hard sometimes. I understand completely why the boundaries are in place, and wouldnt even want to have a "regular friendship" with her, but sometimes just a TINY bit of information would make therapy so much easier. Just a snipet, so I feel like I'm talking to a real person, not someone who lives in her office. With my last T, all I really knew was the ages of her kids and a little about her other part-time work (workshops) and that was enough.
To be honest, I'm not sure what she'd say if I asked for "extras". Once I did ask for an extra session when I was in major crisis (called and said I needed to come in asap) and she allowed it. However, a few weeks ago I called in major crisis and did not get the reaction I would have hoped for. I liked your analogy about the sky opening up if you were to ask - exactly how I feel! Like she'd look at me and say "dont you know you're the client? you dont ask ME for things." Who knows. I know I've said this on babble before, but she never has once said its okay to call her between sessions. If I ask and she says yes, it wont feel real. I want her to SAY that its okay. I guess the "do you really care about me?" is wrapped up in there too.
I dont think she understands how deeply I really feel things. I'm very, very good at keeping everything very intellectual, which is something we discuss all the time, but I wonder often if I even have her fooled to a degree. Even though I truly want her to see the truth. Maybe it's hard to imagine what really is underneath when shes never seen it. So maybe "crisis" or "I need you" outside sessions doesnt mean as much to her, regarding me anyway. Maybe she doesnt know what "crisis" really is. My SI has never been serious and my suicidal fantasies (in the past) never materialized to attempts. I've gotten way off topic here. There have been times I've felt like hurting myself just to get her attention (and I've told her this.)
I didnt call the other day. I'm going to wait until Monday (probably) and see if I readjust to the idea of not seeing her for awhile. If not, I guess I'll call. I'm really not doing well at all, as you might can tell from my all over the place ramblings here. I just cant get it all together right now.
Thanks for your reply. I wish I could be more articulate about it right now, but I have been thinking about it and really do get what you're saying. Thanks for your help.
Posted by Jost on June 22, 2006, at 0:57:02
In reply to Re: the decision » Jost, posted by wishingstar on June 16, 2006, at 19:19:12
Wishingstar, are you still here?
I'm sorry I didn't respond to your message, I must have missed it. Thanks for saying that. I really appreciate it.
Are you feeling all right? Have you made arrangements to see your old T?
Jost
This is the end of the thread.
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