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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
I'm in pre-marital counseling now with my fiance. It's a requirement of all couples who get married in our church. It's pretty low profile, compared to traditional therapy. We take personality tests like the Taylor-Johnson and the Myers-Briggs, which will actually be kind of fun.
But the other part is the family history. And this is where it gets complicated. The man who is doing our counselling is an MFT who is on staff at the church, but he works very closely with my dad. As in, my dad kind of oversees the whole staff this man is on. We had our first session with him last night and to his credit, he started the session by assuring the two of us that everything is confidential, and that this is especially important because of who my dad is.
I wish to high heaven that we were doing this with someone who doesn't know either of us. I feel very strange discussing my family with this man, professional though he may be. Plus, I don't want to rehash everything again, especially since there's nothing in my childhood my fiance doesn't already know.
I don't know how I'll handle the family history discussions. I may just say things on a "need to know" basis and even then not get into gory details. My absolutely worst fear is that I'll cry. Because that would be freaky now wouldn't it, to cry in pre-marital counselling.
What do you guys think?
Posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 23:25:18
In reply to a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
Voce, congrats on the upcoming marriage! That's exciting. :) I know lots of couples who did church pre-marital counseling and got a lot out of it, including a close friend.
Here's my advice: Part of being a good church counselor is helping the couple to feel comfortable. When a couple is fully comfortable with the counselor and the process, they can really open up to each other.
If for any reason you're NOT comfy with this guy, would it be OK to ask for someone who doesn't know your dad so well? Do you trust this guy?
I can tell that you're NOT comfy with him, totally, because you're asking the question here. Nobody is perfect, not priests, not counselors, etc. If you don't think this guy is 100% trustworthy, or that he might not be the right person with whom to disclose family history because it might be "weird", then don't do it.
I mean, pre-marital counseling is a service the church provides. It's not a sacrament mandated by the bible -- it's a VOLUNTARY thing. If you're starting to feel pressured into disclosing things you shouldn't/don't want to, or if you're talking about personal family stuff that doesn't feel right, then don't do it.
A counselor is NOT a priest, and as such, is not necessarily privy to personal facts. He's not a therapist, who has taken an oath to protect your privacy. He's not a doctor or lawyer, who has legal precedent to protect your privacy. He's just a person (hopefully a good one!) who may be charismatic and a good listener...but it's ok to protect your personal life nonetheless.
It's certainly OK to say, "I will talk about this later with my fiancee in private; however, I'm not comfortable talking about these details with anyone but him. I'm sorry but I won't budge on this, and I hope you will support me and understand this."
I may be making too much of this, of course. It's just that I value my privacy, and I'm pretty careful about whom I tell private things to. It's OK for you to do the same, if that is what feels right!
good luck! keep us updated on what you decide to do!
JenStar
Posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:31:03
In reply to a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
Hmmm... I was about to tell you that my own experience with it was that they didn't get too much into details on families. Moreso on our own attitudes and expectations. My husband managed to say almost nothing specific, and while I was frank it certainly wastn't the main focus.
But then I remembered that we opted for the intensive weekend rather than extended counseling. It was kind of interesting, and we got one of our favorite sayings from there: "There's more here than asparagus." and got to talk to another woman who kept her maiden name. But mostly we just congratulated ourselves on how much we'd already done this stuff on our own.
So my experience may not be much help to you.
Posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:03:02
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now » Voce, posted by JenStar on January 19, 2006, at 23:25:18
<would it be OK to ask for someone who doesn't know your dad so well?>
There ISN'T anyone else I would feel more comfortable with...there is one other person on staff who does pre-marital, and he used to be my youth pastor. He and I never saw eye to eye. He's kind of cold and unfeeling. I would feel less comfortable with him.
<Do you trust this guy?>
Kinda. Sorta. I don't really trust *anyone* quickly with sensitive or personal issues. It just feels weird because he knows my dad so well and most likely has a pre-conceived notion of what our lives are like. He doesn't experience the side of my family that I do...
To be fair, I don't have any reason NOT to trust him.
<If you don't think this guy is 100% trustworthy, or that he might not be the right person with whom to disclose family history because it might be "weird", then don't do it.>
If I want to be married in my church, by my pastor, then I have to do this.
<it's a VOLUNTARY thing. If you're starting to feel pressured into disclosing things you shouldn't/don't want to, or if you're talking about personal family stuff that doesn't feel right, then don't do it.>
I have to do this in some way, shape or form. The question is how.
<He's not a therapist, who has taken an oath to protect your privacy.>
He is an MFT, licensed by the state, who happens to be employed through the church as pastor of membership care. He is obligated to protect our privacy from others, including family. But that doesn't negate the weirdness factor.
Posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:03:36
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:03:02
Posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:06:50
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now » Voce, posted by Dinah on January 19, 2006, at 23:31:03
<and we got one of our favorite sayings from there: "There's more here than asparagus.">
Hehe, what does THAT mean?
<But mostly we just congratulated ourselves on how much we'd already done this stuff on our own.>
Yeah. We've been together 5 years, and not easy ones at that. But I am so very proud of us. The counsellor asked if we had any regrets in our relationship. He said no, and I said no and added that we did the best we could with what we had, and that I couldn't really regret anything. We always do our best, even when we're just two stupid people trying to get along.
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2006, at 6:47:20
In reply to a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
Could you do the counselling at a different church? Then you could work with someone who isn't already in a relationship with your family.
I know that my therapist won't work with my friends because there could be a conflict of interest (does he look out for my best interests or my friend's if there is a conflict?).
Might be worth asking.
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on January 20, 2006, at 8:22:57
In reply to a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
How many times do you have to meet for this counseling? Hopefully it is not too many. I liked the ideas abt saying some issues were off limits b/c they were too intense for this setting. I think he should be okay abt it. Actually, if your dad oversees him the counselor will probably feel a little intimidated by you and the situation and respect your wishes.
Best,
EEPS He's probably at least a little uncomfortable to know about your family stuff anyway, right? I don't think he'll push the issue.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2006, at 9:27:52
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now » Dinah, posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:06:50
> <and we got one of our favorite sayings from there: "There's more here than asparagus.">
>
> Hehe, what does THAT mean?I think the story went something like "My husband and I were shopping, and we ran across a man and woman in the frozen vegetables section having a loud and animated argument over what brand of asparagus to buy. My husband and I looked at each other uncomfortably and chose a different aisle. And my husband said "There's more there than asparagus."
For some reason that expression stuck with us, and we now use it any time we catch ourselves (or others) apparently getting more upset, or behaving more extremely, than the situation would seem to warrant.
> <But mostly we just congratulated ourselves on how much we'd already done this stuff on our own.>
>
> Yeah. We've been together 5 years, and not easy ones at that. But I am so very proud of us. The counsellor asked if we had any regrets in our relationship. He said no, and I said no and added that we did the best we could with what we had, and that I couldn't really regret anything. We always do our best, even when we're just two stupid people trying to get along.
>That sounds pretty wise. My husband and I were actually pretty insufferable when I look back on it. Not in public, of course. But we'd been together for soooo many years that we knew pretty much all of the answers to our exercises. And since marriage is a pretty big step, I guess it made us feel giddily reassured that we were ready for it, and rather surprised that anyone about to be married hadn't discussed how many children they wanted, or whether they believed in corporal punishment, or how much time together they wanted to spend. Of course, pride cometh before a fall, and all that. We discovered that even after all those years there were a fair number of things we didn't know because they just didn't apply until after marriage. But now that we've been married as long as we dated, I think we're starting to adapt to those much better than we did.
Posted by JenStar on January 20, 2006, at 13:03:45
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 20, 2006, at 1:03:02
hi Voce,
I hear all the things you are saying - it sounds like a complex situation. :) I understand that you have to get counseling, of course, to get married in the church. Would it be possible to ask for special circumstances and get a conselor from another church, or do it in some other program, as long as the basic needs of the program are fulfilled? I know it's "out of the system", but really, aren't churches and parishes supposed to be about individualized help, not forcing people to conform?I know the answer might end up being 'NO.' But if it were me, I might consider asking. :)
You should of course do what feels right. What are you leaning towards? Do you think you'll end up sticking with this guy? Do you think you'll end up disclosing lots of personal stuff?
Quite possibly it will all be fine, too!
About your earlier question, I think it would be OK to cry in a session if you need to. And I'm sure your hubby-to-be will be kind and supportive! If there are things that make you cry, or things that make you extremely emotional, I think it's OK to let that show.
good luck. And congrats again on your upcoming marriage! :)
JenStar
Posted by Tamar on January 20, 2006, at 19:06:50
In reply to a different kind of therapy now, posted by Voce on January 19, 2006, at 22:49:15
Hi Voce,
I can understand your concerns. My initial instinct is to say that this man cannot possibly be objective with you if he works closely with your father. (I learned that lesson the hard way when I talked frankly to my mother’s pdoc 18 years ago…)
My view is: the counsellor’s role should be to help you identify any problem areas in your relationship and get you to think about where the difficulties may arise. And that makes a lot of sense for many couples. On the other hand, you have been in therapy; you have probably developed an ability to think psychologically that many other women about to marry have no idea of.
My advice would be: don’t share anything you feel uncomfortable with. And if the counsellor asks you a lot of questions you don’t want to answer, tell him you have prayed about your family history together with your fiancé, and some things are between the two of you and God. I don’t know if your church adheres to the doctrine of the priesthood of all believers (many Protestant churches do; Catholic churches don’t) but if so, I think you’re within your rights to insist that discussion of some aspects of your past is limited to your personal relationship with God.
Just my two cents.
Tamar
Posted by Voce on January 21, 2006, at 2:09:18
In reply to Re: a different kind of therapy now » Voce, posted by Tamar on January 20, 2006, at 19:06:50
...but it's like Tamar said, I have learned to think psychologically. According to the rules of therapy, isn't what you don't want to share probably the thing that most Ts think you should talk about???
I think I will have to be guarded in our interactions and not tip him off as to some things that are a can of worms, so to speak.
Next week will be personality test results, which is a whole lot of the present and hopefully not too much of the past. I'll let you all know what goes on.
Posted by Voce on January 21, 2006, at 2:50:55
In reply to I get what you all are saying, posted by Voce on January 21, 2006, at 2:09:18
...there has never been, nor will there probably ever be a person who can probe my mind with such frightening accuracy like my former T could.
This is the end of the thread.
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