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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 13 to 37 of 57. Go back in thread:
Posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:56:09
In reply to I am going to tell my T that I am leaving my DH, posted by happyflower on December 11, 2005, at 12:22:53
I have been in a very bad marital state for much longer. For the first couple of years, my marriage was totally intolerable. I was being a complete jerk in the first year, and then it was my husband's turn to be a jerk.
But eventually we have stayed together, worked out most of the issues, and still manage to have lot of good time and affection towards each other. Actually these days, it has been extremely nice and pleasant and I miss him when he is not around, and I really like him a lot.
But honestly, it was not possible to put sincere effort into my marriage when I was still communicating with my first T. I always felt distracted emotionally, and even though I made attempts like trying to get him to a marriage counsellor etc, I didn't put my heart and soul in the marriage, and of course, whatever efforts I put in at that time didn't work. Oh by the way, my marriage was also like yours now.
I think you are in the same state too. I think you really are not capable of all the emotional investment needed for a marriage to work at this state - with your mind full of your T. It really isn't possible to try to work out a marriage fully when your heart is full with another guy. Subconsciously you might be sabotaging your own efforts.
Think about it more, and I think you need to wait atleast until a year after your therapy terminates and you stop seeing your T, to come to a realistic conclusion about your marriage.
Plus most people who are basically nice, will turn around even if they falter for a year or two. If you think your hsuband is basically a decent guy (and I think he has been in the past for the past 10 years with you), you should give him more time.
Posted by happyflower on December 12, 2005, at 21:48:12
In reply to I think you should give it more time. » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:56:09
I respectlly disagree. I don't believe in being a martar, I have tried everything. Sorry, but therapy has made me stronger and a better happier person. I have been getting nothing but postive results from others around me about the changes in me. I deserve to be happy, I have been miserable for months because of my marriage. It is effecting everyone especially my kids.
Everyone is different. I for one would NEVER stay married to a guy who has physically abused me. I deserve better. I know I do. It's been almost a year now, I am not going through another year of this.
Posted by orchid on December 13, 2005, at 5:09:23
In reply to Re: I think you should give it more time. » orchid, posted by happyflower on December 12, 2005, at 21:48:12
Ok. Ultimately it is your choice and I know it is different for different persons. Plus I had been very conservative about divorce partly because of my country and culture as well. Maybe you wouldn't have the same issues.
But still, it is better to take time before making a drastic decision. For all you know, your husband might turn around quicker than most, and you might live happily ever after - that is, if you want to stay married to him.
But please don't act on this with still having very strong feelings about your T. I think it might end up to be a hasty decision. Atleast wait till you resolve your feelings about your T (one way or the other) before proceeding with your divorce.
> I respectlly disagree. I don't believe in being a martar, I have tried everything. Sorry, but therapy has made me stronger and a better happier person. I have been getting nothing but postive results from others around me about the changes in me. I deserve to be happy, I have been miserable for months because of my marriage. It is effecting everyone especially my kids.
> Everyone is different. I for one would NEVER stay married to a guy who has physically abused me. I deserve better. I know I do. It's been almost a year now, I am not going through another year of this.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 10:33:20
In reply to Re: I think you should give it more time. » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 13, 2005, at 5:09:23
> Ok. Ultimately it is your choice and I know it is different for different persons. Plus I had been very conservative about divorce partly because of my country and culture as well. Maybe you wouldn't have the same issues.
I do not want a divorse, I really don't. But I don't want to live in a dead marraige. Life is too short for that . My T and I have gone over and over about me not believeing in divorce. I can't change my DH. It is up to him. So am I suppose to be miserable for what could be a long time for him to change. He won't talk to me, he refused to seek conceling. He won't talk to me about the other women. There is no affection or sex, and compainionship between us. It has been dead for months. I have cried a river of tears, I have not taken this decision lightly. Sometimes I preceive your comments about me, to almost seem like you believe I don't know anything or I don't even think about my situation. Almost like you think I am an airhead or something. Maybe it is your age talking or something or how you are viewing me. I have thought about all of this hours everday, talked about it in therapy. My thoughts have gone back and forth until I have made my final decsion. I feel at peace with my choice because I feel it is right. I can't make someone love me. When I look into my DH eyes, there is NO love there.
My T has said that adults that were abused as child often "take " abuse later in life or think they don't deserve better, they accept the unexceptable. Your DH has physically assulted you, and yet you want to remain with him. I know this is very common, but I think it is due to low self esteem. I know I deserve better, and I refuse to stay in a marriage that is dead. I have tried everything, he has done nothing. I deserve better. It takes a strong women to stand up for herself. I don't need a man to make me complete.
I don't believe we resolve our feelings. Feeling can change, but you can't delibertaly deceide "I am going to resolve my feelings". Feelings are what they are, we can't help what we feel. My feelings about my T are what they are. I can't change the way I feel. I would have the same feeling no matter what shape my marriage is in. My decision about my marriage has nothing to do with my T . I am not leaving my DH to be with my T .
I really believe you are critizing me by saying I am making a hasty decsion. I don't do that, I always think things through. You don't know me very well and your preceptions are off about me. I think you are projecting onto me and I think you have a very negative view of me.
You can say what you want to, you can feel what you want. But for someone to stay in marriage in which their DH has physically assulted you, and not that long ago either, just isn't the right thing to do and it is hard for me to take seriously what you think. I think YOUR thinking is off more than mine because I don't allow myslef to tolerate abuse. So you saying to me that I should stay in my unhappy marrige because he could change. Well I think I deserve better than living on a hope that things will change.
I have a lot of love to give and I deserve to have love returned to me. To me staying in a dead marriage with a slim hope that he might change is in a way almost abusing myself. I don't need that.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 10:50:23
In reply to I think you think very negatively of me » orchid, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 10:33:20
I made a very had decsion, I wanted a little support, maybe some hugs. But I feel like I am being judged again. I want to leave the boards, but I have tried that before, and I still come back. Why do I even bother posting anthing anymore? I posted to say my decesion about my marriage. It was a very hard thing to deceide. But now instead of feeling supported, I feel like I should just crawl in a hole and die. I am tired of reaching out for support and getting kicked in the face. (not by everyone )
Posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 12:26:48
In reply to I came here for support , not to be critized, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 10:50:23
I would like to say some supportive things but I am afraid of your reaction. Would you like to talk about this?
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 13:24:55
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » happyflower, posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 12:26:48
> I would like to say some supportive things but I am afraid of your reaction. Would you like to talk about this?
I would love to have some support, please don't be afraid of posting support. Sure I would like to talk about this if it is supportive and not trying to put me out to hang. LOL :)
Posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 13:54:26
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » one woman cine, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 13:24:55
I don't think anyone wants to hang you out to dry!
I do think though the spirit of what orchid was trying to say, was to take things slow and mull everything over. You have been posting alot about this, and I can intuit that you are conflicted. Your therapist wanted to break it off, and you were hesitant (you wrote you were feeling pressured), you wrote that Dr. B post, a short while ago. It's the holidays and I think it's generally a very emotional time.
When relationships aren't working out it's a very painful place to be. It seems like you are beginning to advocate for yourself in terms of your marriage, is that right? It sounds like you have alot on your plate right now, & maybe you need some support in therapy & maybe with more frequency.
Is it possible to wait and make a decision when you are not in such a emotional space?
I think it may well turn out the relationship has no hope of working & I hope you continue towards resolving this.
It also sounds like you have alot conflict (in terms of ambivalent feelings)in regards to your therapist/therapy. Maybe this can be worked on as well.
It's always better as a general rule to stay in the grey, rather than the black and white. I guess I worry when I "hear" people speak in absolutes. & maybe this is where you need to be right now.
& hey, you do yoga, right? There are alot of really good poses I can think of that will help bring you to some kind of calm, peaceful place. It would be worth a try.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 14:16:47
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » happyflower, posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 13:54:26
Thanks women cine,
Maybe orchid didn't want to hang me out to dry but I don't find her post supporting at all, not just today, but for a long time we have butted heads. We have very different views, and instead of respecting my decision, she has to post on how what I am doing is wrong in her eyes. I don't think that is supportive, that is being critical.
I did tell my T to let me do what I need to do at my own pace. He wanted me to give my DH ultimatiums after the holidays. Well I don't believe that I will get the desired results from them. So I am not letting him tell me what to do either.
He did say that I have thought this out, we have discussed it A LOT in therapy about my marriage . He says I have been tormented by this for a long time on what to do, and now he sees me more peaceful with my descison. He said he will allow me to go at my own pace. This will be a long process, I need to get my ducks in a row. My T asked me, so if he wanted to change things, is it too late in your mind? I said yes, I have had enough, and it would take a lot for me to change my mind. The truth is he has hurt me very deeply, my heart is broken in two, and I feel it is beyond repair. It has been almost a year now, I can't take it anymore, I am dying inside.
What yoga poses do you suggest? I have been practicing yoga for only a couple of months, but I do know a lot of the poses, I have a very good instructor. :) I find it to be very healing mentally and physially. I am hooked! :)
Posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 14:33:34
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » one woman cine, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 14:16:47
I have to add, just for my own peace of mind - that just because you and orchid disagree - it does not mean she isn't supportive. I think this important - I think she is just giving you an alternate opinion - she isn't saying how your wrong as a person. & maybe you guys will never agree or never agree on some things - but that's OK too. Just my two cents.
But what poses do I recommend, well the tree pose - it connects you to whatever your feeling, it does for me - the lion, b/c the facial expressions and exaggerated yelling helps release tension - the bow, it helps you stay in the present - but mostly, I think yoga helps you sit with physical unpleasnt sensations which translates into emotional states.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 14:34:15
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » one woman cine, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 14:16:47
Don't need to bother with me anymore, because happyflower doesn't exhist anymore. I don't need to explain myself over and over and try to validate myself. I know I am making the right decision.
I thought this was a support board, I was wrong. Thats all I wanted, I didn't ask "should I leave my DH". I made my decision.
Kinda like getting smacked around, after awhile you have enough of it. Some of you have been wonderful to me, but the few that haven't, who are judgemental and critical is ruining it for the others. It is hard to to accept the judements along with the support of others. I am hurt, and that hurt overpowers the good support I have received. It is just too hard to participate anymore. My hands have been slapped enough. Please don't even bother anymore, I am going to disapear forever. I am now gone. Just allow me to leave with some dignity left.
Posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 14:44:31
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » happyflower, posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 14:33:34
You know, I don't know what I did to warranat this kind of reaction from you, I didn't criticize you, I merely said - I think you both disagree.
I don't don't know what else to say, except I am really kicking myself for posting to you.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 15:35:58
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » one woman cine, posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 14:44:31
> You know, I don't know what I did to warranat this kind of reaction from you, I didn't criticize you, I merely said - I think you both disagree.
>
> I don't don't know what else to say, except I am really kicking myself for posting to you.My post was not directed to you, as you can see your name was not on it. Sorry if you thought it was. Thanks for the yoga advice.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 15:38:05
In reply to Re: I came here for support , not to be critized » one woman cine, posted by one woman cine on December 13, 2005, at 14:44:31
Voce, I would like to respond to your email, but I turned my babble mail off before I saw your email. Please contact Allisonross, for my personal email. Thanks for your support, I really appreciate your thoughts.
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 15:47:30
In reply to I think you should give it more time. » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:56:09
Oh by the way, my marriage was also like yours now.
My DH never phsically assulted me. My marriage has never been like yours.
>
> I think you are in the same state too. I think you really are not capable of all the emotional investment needed for a marriage to work at this state - with your mind full of your T. It really isn't possible to try to work out a marriage fully when your heart is full with another guy. Subconsciously you might be sabotaging your own efforts.You are way off base here. This is extreamly critical and demeaning to say this about me. My mental state has never been like yours. My mind is not full of my T. My heart is not with another guy. I have never been so insulted in my life and for someone who says they are nice. Well if you are being so nice, I hate to see what you say when you aren't nice. I might get a PBC here, but you are very rude and unsupportive and I don't need that from anyone.
> Think about it more, and I think you need to wait atleast until a year after your therapy terminates and you stop seeing your T, to come to a realistic conclusion about your marriage.YOU ARE TELLING ME TO BE REALISTIC? JUDGE YOUR YOUR OWN ACTIONS IN YOUR OWN MARRIAGE BEFORE YOU JUDGE ME ABOUT MY MARRIAGE. I wouldn't be so rude to tell you what I think you realistically should do in your marriage.
Posted by Voce on December 13, 2005, at 16:19:52
In reply to *****voce****please read, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 15:38:05
Even if you don't want to post anymore, would you at least consider leaving your babblemail on?
Posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 16:46:47
In reply to Re: *****voce****please read » happyflower, posted by Voce on December 13, 2005, at 16:19:52
I am sorry, voce, I just don't feel safe here anymore and I don't feel safe having my babble mail on. With the sh*t I get on the boards, I don't want to hear from the same people in my email. I don't mind you having my personal email, you have never been rude to me, and I feel safe for you to have it. I have had enough abuse in my life, I don't intend on taking emotional abuse from anyone either. I was already hurting because of my marriage, and didn't think I could hurt anymore than I already feel, well, I was wrong. Happyflower doesn't exhist, just abusedandsadflower. Thank you again for your babblemail. I wish more people would stand up for what is right.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:28:41
In reply to Just never mind Goodbye, I am leaving, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 14:34:15
> Kinda like getting smacked around, after awhile you have enough of it. Some of you have been wonderful to me, but the few that haven't, who are judgemental and critical is ruining it for the others.Dinah here, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob.
I understand that you're upset and I respect that. But I'm afraid I'm going to have to ask that you follow the civility guidelines of the site. Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down. If you have any questions about the civility guidelines, they can be found at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Any comments on this post, or on other administrative matters, should be directed to Psycho-Babble Administration board.
Posted by allisonross on December 13, 2005, at 17:35:14
In reply to Please be civil » happyflower, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:28:41
Hi, Voce: HappyFlower wants you to know that she wants to talk to you, and wants me to give you her personal e-mail. You can e-mail me: wacalice@aol.com
Hugs, Ally
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:53:50
In reply to Please be civil » happyflower, posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 17:28:41
Dinah here, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob. Comments about the PBC should be directed to Administration. I've moved one post there so here's a link.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20051205/msgs/588744.html
Please follow all redirects about the civility of posts to Administration. Those posts should, of course, themselves be civil.
Posted by Dinah on December 13, 2005, at 19:03:00
In reply to I think you should give it more time. » happyflower, posted by orchid on December 12, 2005, at 20:56:09
> I think you really are not capable of all the emotional investment needed for a marriage to work at this state - with your mind full of your T.
Dinah here, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob.
Orchid, on second reading of this sentence, I think I'm going to have to ask you to please be supportive.
If you have any questions about this Please Be Supportive, or if you're interested in alternate ways of expressing yourself, please direct all followups to Administration. All followups should of course be civil themselves.
Dr. Bob is of course the final arbiter of all deputy decisions. And he may decide to reverse this decision.
If you're interested in reviewing the civility guidelines, they can be found at:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Thanks,
Dinah
Posted by orchid on December 13, 2005, at 21:21:22
In reply to I think you think very negatively of me » orchid, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 10:33:20
Hi HF,
First I am sorry yet again to have offended you. I seem to have been doing that again and again to you. And I keep promising to myself that I won't do it again, but here I go - doing it yet again.
Actually I didn't think it was being unsupportive at all. I meant the whole thing in a very casual tone, not accusive at all. But it came across differently.
I don't think for one moment you are an airhead or something like that.
But it was my perception - seeing your posts on this board, that you are fully into your T right now and have been thinking of him quite a lot. So I thought this is not the right state of mind to come to a conclusion about your marriage. It was just IMHO kind of post and not judgemental. As you said, perhaps I am being way off base.
I didn't think you made the decision lightly too, I just thought perhaps you are making it when you are in a very emotional state of mind, and thought perhpas you should give more time for things to cool down before making a drastic decision about marriage.
But apart from that, as to what you said about my marriage, well, the thing is I am from a different country and a totally different culture. If I get a divorse, the chance of remarriage is extremely slim for me here. And I can't marry outside my country or race because of my own preference. I just wouldn't feel comfortable marrying someone outside my country. So I have to take that into consideration when I plan my actions about my marriage. Plus, there are things about my hsuband which are extremely nice. And I know he physically assaulted me, more than a few times. But he still is a nice person at heart. Maybe I wouldn't have taken it if I were originally from the Western world. But I have lots of other issues to consider, about my society and my family and friends here, and it is just not an easy decision to take about a divorce. If I get a divorce, it will not only affect me, but my parents, my relatives etc - everybody here. And I was the first girl from my family circle who did something totally different and married out of love, and went to the US etc. If my marriage fails, I not only affect my immediate family, but I will also end up being a bad excuse for many of my cousins who are planning to be free and independant - for their parents to prevent them from what they want to do. I feel responsible to many of my cousins (girls) and the society and since I was the first one to go out and change, I want to be a good example so people can follow.
You may not be able to fully picturize what I am talking about, but it is just perhaps very different.
So I think I was projecting that same kind of caution on to you as well. But as you said, you are in a different state - you don't have the same kind of restrictions and limitations that I have. So maybe it just does'nt apply to you. You are much more free to enjoy and explore and choose the life you want than I am. I should have taken that into consideration before airing my views.
But given all that, I am sorry again. And I think it might be best for you if I don't post to you anymore. I keep getting off base about your posts - partly because of my experience and my issues and as you said, my poor self esteem. And it has happened quite a few times.
It was good talking to you around here.
Take Care
-Orchid.
Posted by AuntieMel on December 14, 2005, at 10:43:29
In reply to Re: wow; big decision » Dinah, posted by happyflower on December 11, 2005, at 16:11:07
I think I have a bit of a clue what it feels like, though my divorce was years ago.
It doesn't matter how much you want this, or that it is your decision, just as it didn't matter much that it was my decision to get mine.
There is still a period of mourning for what could have been, for the hopes that you used to have. And no matter how hard you tried to keep things together there is an inevitable feeling of failure.
Take good care of yourself while this is going on. And - from experience - allow yourself the time to mourn.
Posted by Pfinstegg on December 14, 2005, at 12:30:51
In reply to Re: my sympathies » happyflower, posted by AuntieMel on December 14, 2005, at 10:43:29
was very distressing, at least to me. I have loved hearing about your growth as a person, and a woman, and would be very sad not to hear from you again. Everyone's marriage is different and complicated, and for you to make the decision you did took tremendous courage and strength- qualities you have obviously always had, but which really seemed to have grown, even a lot more, during the past year. I respect it completely. You are really the one- the only one- who knows what will be best for you. Your life has blossomed out so much in just a year; you are still young, and if separation and divorce seems right to you, I trust your decision. There will be a lot of joy and fulfillment ahead for you, despite the grieving you are doing now. Guys seem to really like you- and your husband may have huge, unaddressed problems with intimacy in marriage. How about keeping on posting? If you don't, I'm really going to miss you!
Posted by Tamar on December 14, 2005, at 17:37:55
In reply to Re: *****voce****please read, posted by happyflower on December 13, 2005, at 16:46:47
Happyflower, I’ve been struggling all day to find the right words. And I still don’t know if I’ve found them.
I want to speak so gently to you… I’m afraid that whatever I say might come across wrong. And the last thing I’d want to do is hurt you.
But I also don’t want to ignore you out of fear of hurting you, and maybe I can find some words that are adequate.
I’ve heard a lot of pain in your posts in the last few days. I’m sure that you’re having a very rough time at the moment. You need a lot of love right now and it’s hard to find. I wish I could find ways to be more supportive. But at the very least, here are some hugs: (((((Happyflower)))))
I hope you don’t go away for good. I really hope you come back, because beneath your anger there’s a lot of pain, and it’s always easier for us to respond to pain than anger. And also, I’d miss you. A lot.
Please look after yourself; I’ll be thinking of you.
Tamar
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