![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 38. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 18:46:20
he saw you when you didn't see him. He told me he saw me coming into the gym on last Sunday as he was going to the locker rooms. I didn't see him, I didn't know he went on the weekends.
Then another time he saw me he said I groaned. Maybe this it the time I didn't want to see him last week. But I don't groan and I told him so. I told him he was projecting onto me because he also thought oh, great I just made her morning. LOL Why would my T tell me all this durning our last session? It is kinda of funny.
Then he also told me that while he was jogging around the track , a song came on by one of his favorite bands, which we discussed a lot about, and I gave him info on how to order a CD of them. He thought it was quite a coincedence that the song was playing while we were both there. It is funny for him to point this out, because there has been so many of these coincedences between us, but this time he said it, it wasn't just me thinking it. Any thoughts?
We had a good session , talked about religion, and I swear he is the only person who thinks the same way as me about this. I found out we are the same religion.
We talked about sexual thoughts, affairs, and he wanted to know if the guy I was talking to at the gym was someone I was thinking about having an affair with. Then I talked about another workout buddy of mine, and it turns out that he knows him and his wife. His wife used to work with my T, and he wanted to know if I wanted to have an affair with this guy because I was flirting with him at the gym. I said no I am not attracted to them in this way. Then he asked if this fellow musican somebody I am thinking about. NO< NO !
I am only fantazing on what an affair would be like, I don't think I would follow through with it though. Our session bled into his lunch hour about 20 minutes, 30 minutes past my appointment . He really wasn't watching the clock like he normally does, and he seems surprised he went over. We were having a good time talking. We have so much in common it is pleasant to talk to him.
He told me whatever my future holds, he hopes I continue to keep playing in the bands, he said it has such a postive effect on me. It was like he was telling me that it is what I am meant to do. Well I guess I should be quiet for now, I just want to know your reactions to my session. Thanks! :)
Posted by Susan47 on November 4, 2005, at 20:48:40
In reply to How would it make you feel if your T said that, posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 18:46:20
Sounds like T-love. Lucky you. What will you do with it? This is a huge responsibility. What will you do? Because I suspect he'll keep you hung up like this for as long as you like, or until someone better comes along for one of you. I hope you're first :)
Posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 20:55:38
In reply to Re: How would it make you feel if your T said that, posted by Susan47 on November 4, 2005, at 20:48:40
> Sounds like T-love. Lucky you. What will you do with it? This is a huge responsibility. What will you do? Because I suspect he'll keep you hung up like this for as long as you like, or until someone better comes along for one of you. I hope you're first :)
Susan,
Why do you call it T-love? I was surprised by what you said, even though it made me smile! LOL This is only part of one session I am talking about, I didn't tell everything, lol! :)
Posted by Susan47 on November 4, 2005, at 21:15:36
In reply to Re: How would it make you feel if your T said that » Susan47, posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 20:55:38
I think he likes you as a person and probably shouldn't be asking you the kinds of questions he asks you. Quite frankly, his questions sound inappropriate; it's about what he wants to talk about, the direction he wants things to take; imo it's patently obvious. And the reason you're posting this is because inside yourself you know it, but you can't sound like a jerk coming out and saying, "I think this man whom I ADORE and fantasize about, might actually be interested in me, isn't that RIDICULOUS?" And the fact is you probably wouldn't give him more than a second glance if yuo met him outside therapy, or maybe you would but you'd both know you were off limits, he was off limits, he's probably married or something, but because you're in this relationship, it's getting to be more than that.
And now you have to take the reins if he doesn't get ahold of himself. He might terminate you. That's all. That's what I think happened to me. But I could be wrong. Because you know, I'm delusional. ;)
Posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2005, at 22:53:17
In reply to How would it make you feel if your T said that, posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 18:46:20
Happyflower,
It does sound like the boundaries are blurring a bit. And that usually isn't helpful for the therapy.
Having the session go over is not a good sign - particularly since the reason was that you were chatting.
I know that it feels wonderful when you feel like you are getting to really know the person who is your therapist, but it really can be hurtful to the patient and hurt the therapy.
I don't know what I would do if I were in your situation (probably sit back and enjoy it!!!), but I think that the "safe" thing to do would be to mention the next time you talk to him (either at the gym or at your next session) that the boundaries seem to be blurring a little and that you think that the two of you should talk about that a bit.
You had a lot of confusion about whether you wanted him to come to your concert or not. I'm afraid that seeing him as a peer at the gym might generate a lot more confusion.
That said, I don't know that I could do what I suggest if it were me.
Please be careful.
Falls.
Posted by antigua on November 5, 2005, at 6:11:01
In reply to Re: How would it make you feel if your T said that » happyflower, posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2005, at 22:53:17
Posted by happyflower on November 5, 2005, at 20:40:25
In reply to Re: How would it make you feel if your T said that » happyflower, posted by fallsfall on November 4, 2005, at 22:53:17
I guess our relationship is becoming more personal . It feels good and natural to me.
I do know is that I have never met someone who shares the same interests, thinks a lot like me about major issues,and has the same life values. The simularities are so nurmerous and amazing really. We are both physically attracted to each other, but we are also attracted to each other as a person. If we were not married, and he wasn't my T, I am sure you would all say we were perfect for each other.
Yes, I do believe fate brought us together, for what, I am not sure, but it feels right. I know my emotions have been all over the place about him, but it is because I am trying to ignore what is in my heart and me going with my heart and instincts have never wronged me. I do believe there is something special between us, maybe it will never amount to anything, but there is something and I know he feels it too. I think you have been reading my posts for months and you have seen what has been happening.
I know the ethics and all that stuff, I know what is said about T and client relationships. I know I can get hurt, but I feel it is worth the risk to me. I know he won't do anything during therapy, or if I stay married. He is a very good T, is very respected, and he wouldn't do anything to risk his job. I believe we were meant to be together, I don't know if it will happen,I am realisic, but he will always be in my heart. Okay, I know you are all going to tell me the negative stuff about this, but can you see anything positive about this if we were to follow the rules and become more than T and client?
Posted by fairywings on November 5, 2005, at 23:31:29
In reply to How would it make you feel if your T said that, posted by happyflower on November 4, 2005, at 18:46:20
Hi hf,
he wouldn't mention these things if it were purely professional. he does have feelings for you, and he has asked about the other men because he wants to know for himself, not for the benefit of your therapy. Maybe the song, in his mind, had become "your song", he obviously feels it has some meaning for the two of you, and wanted you to know that. He's smitten.
fw
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 6, 2005, at 9:24:21
In reply to My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 5, 2005, at 20:40:25
happyflower,
I'm sorry, I see nothing positive here whatsoever. This T is not looking out for YOU but rather is more interested in fulfilling his own interest in titillating a client. The last person he is thinking of is you.
You are having marriage problems and therefore very vulnerable. The fact that he keeps asking about whether you're thinking of having affairs with all of these men is ridiculous. I know you enjoy the flirting and attention (who wouldn't), but in the long run this is not good for you.
I only write this because you asked if anyone can see anything positive. This T is not acting professionally, and don't you want only the best for your mental health care, someone who looks after you and not himself?
Posted by 10derHeart on November 6, 2005, at 14:52:47
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by Miss Honeychurch on November 6, 2005, at 9:24:21
Thanks, Miss Honey....because I've been thinking the exact same thing and been too chicken to say so. (Perhaps I'd better go on a hunt for my backbone later :-( )
Sorry, happy, partly I've held back also becasue I've been trying and and trying to find some redeeming value, or alternate explanation, but from all you've written here, your T. has stretched boundaries too far already, IMO. Some aspect of your relationship has become all about him, it seems. That scares me.
I know you said neither of you would ever *do* anything while married or while he is your T. But....in a way, he has already done something just by the inappropriate questions, letting sessions go over into his lunch hour for chit-chat, and so forth. Sure it seems harmless and nice now, but...
I'm worried about you, and your family, happy. He has a LOT of extra power because you first met him as a T. This could end up hurting you badly. This could lead to not working on your marriage when actually, you wanted to (if DH comes around to that point, too, of course) because you may be so confused and stuck on powerful emotions for your T., which he's encouraging.
Do think hard, consider bluntly asking him about some of these words and actions, and be ever so careful. I only want the very best for you - you've worked hard for all the positive change and you deserve not to be messed with...
Posted by Damos on November 6, 2005, at 15:13:57
In reply to Re: My feelings » Miss Honeychurch, posted by 10derHeart on November 6, 2005, at 14:52:47
I've got to agree with Miss Honeychurch and 10derHeart on this one. As I read your post I just felt like some line had been crossed. The questions just seemed inappropriate to me too.
Don't want to see you hurt Happyflower.
Posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
In reply to Re: My feelings » 10derHeart, posted by Damos on November 6, 2005, at 15:13:57
Thanks you all for being honest with me. I need to hear it, I can take it. Maybe I shouldn't post about this anymore. It is hard to see him as hurting me, because it feels good, and I have mutual feelings for him and he has helped me so much. I am happier than I have ever been in my entire life. He helped me get there. I guess I have a lot to think about. Please don't be scared to tell me what you guys think, I can take it, even if you disagree with me. You guys are a big help to me. Thankyou.
Posted by muffled on November 6, 2005, at 22:14:04
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
Posted by caraher on November 7, 2005, at 9:26:48
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
> Thanks you all for being honest with me. I need to hear it, I can take it. Maybe I shouldn't post about this anymore.
Why not? If anything it seems like you have even more reason to post, if only to use us as a sounding board.
Stay happy but don't get hurt!
Posted by Tamar on November 7, 2005, at 11:13:53
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
Another perspective…
I don’t think it’s necessarily inappropriate for your therapist to ask if you’ve thought of having affairs with other men. Perhaps he’s challenging you to think about your commitment to your marriage and whether you would seriously consider getting sex elsewhere since you’re not getting it at home. I think many people would think about it a little… but some people might be more prepared to have an affair than others. I think it might be a good thing that he asked, because if you *are* ever tempted to have an affair it’s best if you can understand your feelings and thoughts about it rather than just drifting into it and then regretting it deeply.
As for the question of whether there could be anything positive about a relationship with your T… Let’s imagine that you both decide you want a relationship and you both get divorced and you’re prepared to wait two years before having sex (I can’t quite imagine waiting two years to have sex… but of course I’m a pervert). I know you two have a lot in common and it seems obvious that you’re attracted to each other. So if you want my honest opinion, I think it could probably feel extremely positive at first. I imagine it could be very exciting and in some ways very healing and comforting. I can imagine that if everything went well, you’d feel accepted and adored and happy and fortunate and lots of other great things.
But I can’t help thinking of the possible negative consequences alongside the positives. And I think I’d agree with many of the things other people have posted – it can be dangerous to embark on a relationship with a therapist and many of the people who have tried it have been very hurt. Perhaps the two year rule helps, but it’s not really a guarantee of happiness. And perhaps some people have found that after a two year wait the guy wasn’t as hot in bed as they’d fantasised, or he wasn’t the wonderful man they’d known in therapy after all. I’m sure you realise your T has faults, but do you know what they all are and whether you could live with them? My main worry at the moment is that by crossing boundaries and chatting with you in his lunch hour he seems to be encouraging you to hope for something (like a friendship or relationship) that he hasn’t promised.
I’m not going to talk a lot about the negative stuff because you know all that. And I can understand why you want to think about the possible positives. Actually, I think it’s a good thing to focus on the positives: I think it could give you an idea of what you want from a relationship in general (whether with him or your husband or someone else). I also think it’s good to focus on the positive aspects of the relationship you already have with him. It seems from what you say that he’s helped you a lot and he’s an important person in your life; he makes you feel good about yourself and he genuinely likes you.
But if you feel that you want him as a partner, I’d reckon it’s important to keep talking about it… at least here at Babble if you can’t talk to him about it at the moment. I worry when you say that perhaps you shouldn’t post about it any more, because it sounds to me as if it’s so painful to you that you want to hide from it. Maybe I’m wrong about that…
What do I know? Maybe you could have a real life relationship with him. Maybe you’d be one of the few success stories. You would definitely have to make the first move, though…
(((((Happyflower)))))
Tamar
Posted by B2chica on November 7, 2005, at 11:21:30
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
please don't stop posting about it. this is the place to get it all out. to be blunt, to tell us what you want to tell him. sometimes just saying it to someone safe is enough. and you don't really want what you think you want, maybe cuz you know you shouldn't is edging you more to think that you want it.....uh, did i make sense??
anyway. DON"T stop posting about this.
1)you need to express your true feelings
2)it can be cathardic
3)you can get good advice
and
4)we can live vicariously through you!!!
:^)i think that going over the time cuz with chit chat is fine, i do that with my t all the time. we have SO much in common it's scary. and maybe him asking about the affairs isn't cuz he want to have one with you but helping you explore your sexuality??
(though in my heart i do think he has his own interests in mind).i do however, think that he should be aware that he is blurring the lines with you, since he does not...that's worrying.
i think you DO care for him BECAUSE you are feeling better becuase of all he's helped you with. you feel connected because of all you've shared, because he's been there for you, and of course some physical attraction.the main advice i say is to take this seriously, don't just blow off his actions to harmless flirting or curiosity.
PLEASE put yourself first and what is really best for you.
best wishes
FWIW
b2c.
Posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 11:36:46
In reply to Re: My feelings » happyflower, posted by Tamar on November 7, 2005, at 11:13:53
> > I don’t think it’s necessarily inappropriate for your therapist to ask if you’ve thought of having affairs with other men. Perhaps he’s challenging you to think about your commitment to your marriage and whether you would seriously consider getting sex elsewhere since you’re not getting it at home.
What you are saying is the way I took the questions. I didn't feel they were wrong to ask, maybe a little nosy, but I am the one who brought up that my thoughts were going elsewhere about other people because I am missing the closenss of sex and caring. This was part of the conversation where we were talking about my marriage problems.
I just kinda feel my posts about this is upsetting people or giving them false hope about their own T's. So I thought maybe I shouldn't talk about this here. What do you think? There seems to be some very strong opinions about this topic.
All I know is what I feel in my heart, and I don't feel him having feelings for me are one sided. I think we have mutual feelings for each other. I don't know where he stands in his marriage and I don't know if he feels about me as strongly in the same way. Or if he did, will he let himself act on it.
Today I saw him at the gym, and we do have a special chemsistry with each other and I can tell how he smiles at me he really likes me. Maybe this is all that will become of it, and I think I will be okay with it. I am not letting myself get too carried away, because I am afraid of getting hurt. I am just going to take it slowly and see what happens.
I think you are right that I will have to make the first move, because if he did, he would be risking a lot, if I didn't feel the same way. Right now I am enjoying his company and flirting . You have to admit, who doesn't like to be noticed and liked? It feels good, I can't help it. I do feel these are real feeling, not projections of somebody else. I wish he wasn't so cute, it might make it easier! LOL Thanks Tamar, I value your advice. :)
Posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 11:52:39
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by B2chica on November 7, 2005, at 11:21:30
> please don't stop posting about it. this is the place to get it all out. to be blunt, to tell us what you want to tell him. sometimes just saying it to someone safe is enough. and you don't really want what you think you want, maybe cuz you know you shouldn't is edging you more to think that you want it.....uh, did i make sense??
I got ya, I think! LOL I thought!
>
> 4)we can live vicariously through you!!!
> :^)
I know some of you love this stuff! I do too, I can't help it! LOL> i think that going over the time cuz with chit chat is fine, i do that with my t all the time. we have SO much in common it's scary. and maybe him asking about the affairs isn't cuz he want to have one with you but helping you explore your sexuality??
> (though in my heart i do think he has his own interests in mind).I think he got kinda of jealous, becaue I was talking to this other guy, when he wanted my attention, because he wanted to point out the song that was playing while he was jogging around the track.
> the main advice i say is to take this seriously, don't just blow off his actions to harmless flirting or curiosity.
Can you please explain more by what you mean here? :)
> PLEASE put yourself first and what is really best for you.
> best wishes
> FWIWWhat does FWIW mean? LOL excuse my pc dumbness. LOL Thanks B2! :)
Posted by 10derHeart on November 7, 2005, at 12:58:00
In reply to Re: My feelings » B2chica, posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 11:52:39
Posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 14:19:57
In reply to FWIW = For What It's Worth :-) (nm) » happyflower, posted by 10derHeart on November 7, 2005, at 12:58:00
Posted by Tamar on November 7, 2005, at 16:42:10
In reply to Re: My feelings » Tamar, posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 11:36:46
> I just kinda feel my posts about this is upsetting people or giving them false hope about their own T's. So I thought maybe I shouldn't talk about this here. What do you think? There seems to be some very strong opinions about this topic.
I don’t think you’re upsetting anyone. But I do think people are concerned about you and don’t want to see you get hurt, and that's why there are strong opinions. And I don’t think that you’re giving anyone false hope about their own Ts. Each therapy relationship is different and I know that what happens in your relationship isn’t something that could have happened in mine. I tend to assume other people know this too…
Also I agree with B2C: there is some vicarious pleasure in it! Your comment about throwing your panties was particularly fun! Though it might be a challenge to get them off under the fishnet pantyhose and the high heeled boots… have you considered wearing nylons instead? (Sorry; I’m very naughty!)
> All I know is what I feel in my heart, and I don't feel him having feelings for me are one sided. I think we have mutual feelings for each other. I don't know where he stands in his marriage and I don't know if he feels about me as strongly in the same way. Or if he did, will he let himself act on it.
Yeah… he might have feelings for you. I suppose the problem is how far he can express them and still be professional.
> Today I saw him at the gym, and we do have a special chemsistry with each other and I can tell how he smiles at me he really likes me. Maybe this is all that will become of it, and I think I will be okay with it. I am not letting myself get too carried away, because I am afraid of getting hurt. I am just going to take it slowly and see what happens.
It must be nice to see him at the gym. If I saw my T at the gym I’d probably feel both comforted and excited at seeing him outside his office. And I suppose you will probably continue to see him at the gym after termination, when the time comes. I guess I just wonder whether that knowledge keeps you from talking to him about your feelings now, because you might be hoping to develop the relationship in the gym after termination. Well, if it were me, that’s what I’d be thinking…
> I think you are right that I will have to make the first move, because if he did, he would be risking a lot, if I didn't feel the same way.
Not only that, but it’s in the rules. Therapists aren’t supposed to initiate personal relationships, even after therapy is over. So if you do want to start a relationship with him, you’d have to tell him!
> Right now I am enjoying his company and flirting . You have to admit, who doesn't like to be noticed and liked?
Absolutely! I think it’s good that you’re enjoying that aspect of therapy.
> It feels good, I can't help it.
And why should you ‘help it’? I think we need to find enjoyment in life where we can…
> I do feel these are real feeling, not projections of somebody else. I wish he wasn't so cute, it might make it easier! LOL Thanks Tamar, I value your advice. :)
Yes, I’m sure they’re real feelings. And I know what it’s like to have an attractive therapist. Sometimes I think it makes it harder, but other times I figure, if I’m going to have sexual feelings for my therapist, at least he’s attractive! Imagine if he were unattractive and I still wanted to do him? Argh!
There’s no easy answer, is there? But I think it might be helpful to talk to him about it…
Or at least think about the consequences of *not* telling him your feelings. What’s the best you could hope for if you don’t tell? What’s the worst that could happen if you don’t tell?
Tamar
Posted by 10derHeart on November 7, 2005, at 18:03:17
In reply to Re: FWIW = Fantastic,Wonderful,Insiteful, Women? (nm), posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 14:19:57
Posted by B2chica on November 8, 2005, at 9:43:34
In reply to Re: My feelings » B2chica, posted by happyflower on November 7, 2005, at 11:52:39
> > the main advice i say is to take this seriously, don't just blow off his actions to harmless flirting or curiosity.
>
> Can you please explain more by what you mean here? :)
> > PLEASE put yourself first and what is really best for you.
> > best wishes
> > FWIW
>
> What does FWIW mean? LOL excuse my pc dumbness. LOL Thanks B2! :)
>
For what it's worth.
never dumness, there are still many acronyms i don't know...ya, i guess i just meant that part of me wants to say, wow, lucky- wish my T would say things like that. but the realistic me says, IF he does mean this seriously, and he really is flirty to initiate something that i don't think it's in your best interests and you should becareful as to how much you 'flirt' back.
i know that's an impossible task, (cuz it's fun and makes you-me-feel good). but that if it's for real, i don't think he has your best interest in mind...and somebody should.
i just care and don't want to see you hurt from all this.
take care
b2c.
Posted by Susan47 on November 9, 2005, at 22:48:22
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
Why do you say that maybe you shouldn't post about this anymore, happyflower? I'm just curious because you also said that we were a big help to you. I don't think anyone is upset with this exactly, but we are concerned, looking in on this from the outside is definitely different than being in the relationship. I don't want to spoil your fun. I know it's fun. I know it's great to be thought of as somebody by a man you really look up to.
But he is a therapist, happyflower, and you mentioned originally that if you were to have a relationship that's more than therapy but still follow the guidelines ... well, I don't know if the two are copacetic. (sp?)
Posted by Susan47 on November 9, 2005, at 23:08:44
In reply to Re: My feelings, posted by happyflower on November 6, 2005, at 17:56:10
I would love to hear that you've told your therapist your secret feelings about him. They're secret to him, but not really to us, right? I mean, we know you would love to have him feel the same way about you that you do him. I told my own therapist exactly how I felt, and he responded in a negative, frightened way. Which was extremely good for me. It made me angry, to know that he was using me for his ego gratification, but at least I always knew from that point on, where I stood. I didn't let it stop me, either, from expressing the scope of my emotions. He was a reluctant listener, because I made him listen over the answering machine. I don't think, after the initial confession, that I ever spoke to him personally about it again other than to say that he meant more to me than many other people I've known, even though I knew him for a short time only, because of the intimate nature of the therapy relationship. He fully agreed that this was a common phenomenon. I now think that my early self-disclosure as to the nature of my feelings for him, (I phoned once and told him I had a crush on him. He agreed that we all do this) was a smart thing to do. However, it made me angry to realize that in many ways, I was a plaything to this man. A woman who could and would feed his ego.
Just dont' let yourself be used, Happyflower. If I were you I would try to find the courage to disclose my feelings, and hopefully before it is no longer safe to do so. I'm wondering if perhaps the more time that goes by before a client discloses the nature of her sexual and emotional attraction to a therapist, the more opportunity there is for a mutual intimacy to develop which is unhealthy for both parties. ???
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