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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 41. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 0:55:51
hi Everyone,
It's been five years with T , my first T since dx of DID and PTSD. There's always been so much pain.
Lately i can't even manage to get to appts, there's so much trouble. today i struggled to go and arrived. we talked about the things always, "Does some of this remind you of a past situation, where you felt abandoned by everyone and hurt?" These type of questions are constantly shot at me, looking to find any part that will answer.
i feel so attacked.
and so hopeless about ever being able to get better and be happy with any relationship at all.
i feel so alone.
"Things need to be more supportive"
"What would you need me to be?"
"Just identify with me."
"I am with you in the pain"
No, it's not good enough to just be here with me, Identify with me. How YOU would feel if you were me and had all these things happen.
"I'm sorry."Tears. T says he's sorry and he won't, he can't identify with me. He "feels" for me, his "heart goes out to me in my pain" but he can't/won't identify WITH me.
i'm totally devastated because everything in my life is falling apart and i really need one person to identify and help and he won't. i explained and he still won't.
How do you go to a T that can't imagine what it's like to be you?
i hate the way he is never with me, and always blames me or my parts for sabotaging my coming to therapy - we hate to go there because it's a place of despair. and all T says is "Im sorry that you feel despair when you come here."i need T to care about me So badly and all he says is "this is what you get"/I will not change/I will not identify with a sick PTSD DID divided person like you.'
tears
why is everything always so wrong? why is everything in my life so difficult? i've tried so hard at going to therapy and trying to trust T for so long. THE WHOLE TIME i knew i had a disorder i went to only him.
The last thing he said before 'turning down feelings so i could leave was "You went to lots of other Ts before me."
i didn't. He doesn't even remember- he doesn't even know after all this time?
"I stayed with you." i'm so so so hurt, so abandoned by him. Even though he sees me he is never 'with me' , he won't identify with me, he doesn't care.
k
Posted by fairywings on September 17, 2005, at 8:14:26
In reply to T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 0:55:51
Hi Kerria,
Maybe your T is saying to identify with someone you have to have full understanding of what they're experiencing, and you have to share a their way of being. maybe he's saying he can't share your experience, he can only understand it from a clinical perspective, because he doesn't have PTSD or DID, and he will never fully understand. he will never walk in your shoes. So he can hear you, he can be with you in your pain, but he can't share what you experience.
i'm sorry you're not getting what you need from him, i hope you'll look for a new T, one who will offer more empathy and understanding.
fw
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 12:10:49
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by fairywings on September 17, 2005, at 8:14:26
(((((fw)))))
thank you for being there and writing.No - T always says that he won't change- he always say 'with me you've got what you see.' It's a terrible match for me but i had hoped that T would begin at some point to be more realistic about therapy- he has so much experience.
He's been working 20 years, he said, and one of the only trauma treatment centers in the country, some people even consider the best one.
It's so difficult to understand why he has absolutely no understanding about how difficult he makes things by treating me as he does. He is only for his side on everything- never mine.
The hospital is like that also, it's program centered and the patients do well in they can communicate. If you don't have internal communication- why i need long-term therapy- it's impossible to do well there.i thought that he would treat me differently than in the program but after years he doesn't. He has a mastors degree in psychology- why wouldn't he know that i can't possible trust someone who reveals no caring or concern at all?
i just hoped that at some point that he wouldn't treat me as this strange person. He's not even friendly.
It's too difficult to find another T. i can't communicate with parts and i'm in crisis. i don't have any other support to get better and he's the only one who knows and talks to my parts. It's so horrble to be in this place. Everywhere is so scary and i don't even have real friends. My h treats me terribly also or like a stranger most of the time. i make the effort to be friendly towards him all the time, not him.It's so difficult.
i have insurance. They are even covering my whole therapy bill for twice a week unlimited. There are no Ts on that list that will take me. i tried. Inbetween going to T i tried other Ts. i saw someone on the ISSD list for a month, went back to say good-bye because my parts missed T , then he sent a letter canceling therapy with me forever because i saw my first T once. i think that he used it as an opportunity not to have me as a patient.
i'm in a lot of trouble. i can't communicate and need a T who cares about me now.
i'm not doing well enough to call around again, having everyone say no. All these things are too difficult for me with all the other physical problems with pain also.
i wish that my family would help find a T but they're against therapy. That's another problem- my T does the insurance filing and it's too difficult for me to pay up-front but the insurance pay him 100 % .If only someone would help a little to do the details- i'm not well enough to help myself now.Things are so much worse since i started therapy. Before i was working and valued as an employee, going to school with a 3.8 gpa , in good health, camping and hiking every weekend- everything wasn't so terrible. Not i'm all apart and no one can help.
It's so unfair that T doesn't feel responsible at least to help me find another T if he doesn't care enough about me to be my T anymore. i think that therapy ruined me so much- my h says that. No one wants to take me as a client. i never had trouble having friends before and didn't need a T before. everything is so wrong now and i can't get it better :(
tears,
k
Posted by JenStar on September 17, 2005, at 13:13:14
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » fairywings, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 12:10:49
Kerria,
I'm truly sorry you're suffering.I know I've said this before, and I'll just say it this one more time, so I don't start to sound like any annoying broken record. And in advance, I'm NOT trying to be mean or b**chy, but I'm very worried when I hear you talk like you've given up on everything!
It really sounds to me like you're acting a bit like a suffering martyr, and not taking responsibility for yourself, your actions or your future. I think it is not your T's job to fix your life -- it's YOUR job, and the T can help. But if you set him up to be your sole savior, protector, guardian, understander, etc -- you're really setting yourself up for disappointment, because no T can or will be those things.
You're blaming a lot on your family, your husband, your T, the hospital, the system in general. I agree that all of those people/places are probalby not perfect, and might sometimes be cruel/disappointing. But it really sounds to me that you're not really taking actions or responsibility to help yourself get better.
I know that I don't understand what it's like to have parts or to be in chronic pain, but if you're TRULY unable to function AT ALL - even to get to an appointment -- I think you need SERIOUS inpatient help.
I don't think it's fair for someone say that their T or your therapy is ruining them...that's (in my opinion) giving too much power to the T, and a way of dodging responsibility for ones own issues and problems.
Kerria, I'm sorry again if I sounded harsh. But I just don't see how you're going to improve at all if you just keep complaining about the T, about the system, about the doctors, about your H...and not doing anything to improve your situation.
I truly wish you can find the strength to get a new T, get into an in-patient program, learn how to communicate within yourself, and start enjoying life again. I wish you that so very much!
Take care of yourself, and best of luck.
JenStar
Posted by rs on September 17, 2005, at 16:13:17
In reply to T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 0:55:51
Hi Kerria
First have been member for some time but do not post often. I have been following your post.
Kerria I have been in treatment for DID for sometime with a T that moved out of state. The work was hard but knew to make things better had to really want to face parts and the past. Accept.
When T moved took sometime to find another one. Did with must determination. Yes it is difficult to find one that will work with this and support but it is possible.
Kerria I have suffered much in the past. I cannot explain the abuse that was suffered but today am healing from it. Therapy is painful. I am fourtante to have a great T but I had to search and be willing to comunicate with parts no matter what.
It can be done. IMO I feel it is time for you to either find a different T and keep on searching. My T is there but I do the work. He is there during sessions and caring but it is up to me to do the work. He cannot know how it is to be me or can anyone else. Yes he can support and listen and see the pain from different parts. He talks to different parts but will always share what is said and we work from there. Not easy. Honestly darn hurts. But it can be done.
There is no way around but to do the work. If you feel this T your seeing is not helping please search. No matter what t you find your going to be responsible for the work. Not your T your husband etc. Oh many times I blame my T because of the pain that is felt inside in different ways but in reality it is not him at all is the pass abuse that was suffered. I am accpeting all of me for me. To find peace and happiness. Work Ft which is very difficult at times but have no choice. I know I cannot blame parts for whatever happened or happens today. I need to learn to take responsiblity and know they helped me. No its not again easy and painful.
Kerria I am telling you all this because I understand having DID causing different parts, different ages, different sex, different feelings and different memories. I am slowly healing and accepting.
I wish you the best and healing is possible and accepting and also finding the right T. But this was all up to me.
Hang in there and IMO think time for a different T if this is how you feel about present one. Also my T again can listen support but honeslty cannot identify or no person can unless they have been through it and everyone suffers in their own ways.
I hope this did not sound cold which did not mean to be.
Just that i have hurt much and still do at times but know what I have to do and willing to take the risk no matter what. It is up to me to do it.
Posted by terrics on September 17, 2005, at 16:54:20
In reply to T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 0:55:51
To me it sounds like he does care about you. terrics
Posted by rs on September 17, 2005, at 17:12:25
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by terrics on September 17, 2005, at 16:54:20
Hi Kerria
I have no doubt that he cares but I am trying to say that it took work and search to find this T. Please search out. You will find that right T and you can do it really. Please hang in there with hope
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:38:51
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by JenStar on September 17, 2005, at 13:13:14
JenStar how could you misunderstand so much?
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:53:36
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by rs on September 17, 2005, at 16:13:17
Why does anyone think that i blame T for my pain? or my h for my pain? Where did i say that?
and didn't i explain clearly why it wouldn't be a good idea to go to a hospital?
At least read what i wrote before you write back. i'm in a bad place and need support.
i know that therapy changed me.
Everyone that knows me, not only my h says that.
i SEE that- especially when i came across some stories that i wrote for an English class just before i found out that i had DID. It's not just therapy that changed me, it's also finding out that i had DID. It changed me for the worst. i still may be 100 % better some day but not now.About my T- i haven't been able to even get to therapy. i don't think of or depend on my T for anything. That's the problem. i can't trust him enough to depend upon him and do therapy. The talking to parts that T does has changed my personality, temporarily or permanently for the worst.
i'm not able to have a normal relationship with my H and with kids, i'm not able to work as well, i'm not able to go on camping trips because of having indecisions, my parts won't let me go.There's no one to come in front and steer in my personality now. we're a mess.
The chronic pain is a physical issue that hopefully i can find a good dr and have a nerve block.
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:56:18
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by terrics on September 17, 2005, at 16:54:20
how do you see that? i'd like to see- i'm frantically always looking for something that can help me believe that my T cares about me.
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 19:00:27
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by rs on September 17, 2005, at 17:12:25
Thank you, i'm trying to hang on all this time- it's five years with this T. It wasn't hard to find him and he didn't want to take me at first either. The T that was on my insurance knew him and referred me . They worked at the same hospital.
Right now i probably have to try to get the physical problem fixed first- most urgent.
Posted by terrics on September 17, 2005, at 21:19:08
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » terrics, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:56:18
Someone can really care about you but not enter into your experience. Ts. treat many illness: bipolar, depression, schizophrenia, all kinds of personality disorders and on and on. If he enterd all these experiences he would be one mess and would not be able to help anyone. The other things you say sound like caring to me. He did not have to say that he cared, so I think he is sincere. terrics
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 21:34:59
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by terrics on September 17, 2005, at 21:19:08
my T only has treated trauma disorders. i'm not a disorder anyways. If one person could just understand what it was like to have my problems maybe he or she could help me know how to get better.
Right now everything is a confusing mess and no amount of trying to do better could help. The problem is that there isn't a 'host' part or a leader in me anymore. There wasn't before i knew that i had DID either but now it's harder because we know about switching. Five years ago we just were different for each place or relationship like at home and work and school and hiking club.
Being inpatient is the worst for me because i have nothing to ground to - there is no 'hospital part ' so there's 'no one to be' there . Whenever i'm away from everything like that i fall apart . i have to bring things to ground me and think about my family, work, and hiking, etc, and hope the part comes so i know what i am.
so frustrated . no one will try and understand that trying to do better doesn't help:(
no one's in charge - not because they won't but because we can't.
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 23:01:45
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by fairywings on September 17, 2005, at 8:14:26
hi fairywings,
Thank you for encouraging me to find another T. i do want to try and find another one but some of my parts are too attached to T- my littles like him because he's the only one who talks to them.
They're so troubled now at all the things going on. They don't know why the body is in pain and i can't tell them. i have to try to remember to keep on top of pain medicine so we don't get in pain.it's so difficult. we're so alone in the struggle and parts see T so many different ways. It's been too hard to do therapy though because there isn't the trust. Every session there's mostly just crying and not much anything else.
i can never be understood by anyone . Always when i try to explain how it really is people think the opposite. There's too many parts coming to talk. It's so hard to be so misunderstood. i wish that i had friends. It seems like everyone just mostly sticks together. i've posted to others but not telling them what they need to do or critical things like i heard here , especially when i can't do it and parts of me want to.It makes me hate my parts when people tell me critical things. It hurts a lot.
Parts are divided about leaving T. That stops me from finding another T.
tears,
kerria
Posted by JenStar on September 17, 2005, at 23:12:58
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » JenStar, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:38:51
Kerria,
I'm sorry. I know I don't understand your situation. I genuinely hope that things get better for you. I'm wishing you all the best. And I'm sorry if my words hurt you in my previous post.take care,
JenStar
Posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 23:19:14
In reply to I'm very sorry! » kerria, posted by JenStar on September 17, 2005, at 23:12:58
it's ok JenStar.
Everybody's sorry but still no one will be my friend.
tears,
kerria
Posted by muffled on September 17, 2005, at 23:44:32
In reply to I'm very sorry! » kerria, posted by JenStar on September 17, 2005, at 23:12:58
> Kerria,
> I'm sorry. I know I don't understand your situation. I genuinely hope that things get better for you. I'm wishing you all the best. And I'm sorry if my words hurt you in my previous post.
>
> take care,
> JenStarMan, you just cared enough to try and call it as you saw it.I get tired of nicey, nicey b*llshit sometimes, lots of times. I told my T. to be the same way last week. I told her not to be nice and just lay it on the line. You do that for me too OK?
Thanks, Muffled
Posted by muffled on September 17, 2005, at 23:47:22
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 23:01:45
Posted by rs on September 18, 2005, at 4:42:53
In reply to Re: I'm very sorry!, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 23:19:14
Hi Kerria
I myself was sharing from experience and to support you that I understand being DID.
I did jump in here and do not post often so that is not right.
Again I just hope that you things work out.
Posted by fairywings on September 18, 2005, at 6:40:57
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » fairywings, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 12:10:49
sounds to me like your T is perfectly happy to keep you dependant on him and not getting better, because he's being paid the full amount. i had a psychiatrist like that once. he didn't care either. i'm sorry you can't seem to break away from him and get going with another T, but i understand the attachment, even if it isn't a healthy one. i'm sorry. ; (
fw
Posted by fairywings on September 18, 2005, at 6:57:15
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » JenStar, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 18:38:51
> JenStar how could you misunderstand so much?
what i heard is that you said it was a terrible match, and it is, you've admitted it so many times, but you've said you can't/won't find another T. everyone has encouraged you to get away from this T. he sounds like a beast, or it's your interpretation that he is. either way, he sounds very uncaring, and frankly a masters isn't that high a level of education to be an expert. maybe he is, i don't know, i'd be looking for a very kind, caring, person, with at least a masters, possibly a PhD.
You've also said that before therapy you were a student with a 3.8, and went camping every weekend, and were doing well. it seems to me that either this T has made you very ill, or you've regressed, or you've allowed yourself to become ill, or you have gotten worse. only you know the answer to that, and i'm not trying to pick on you, i'm just saying i guess is it's that it's one of those things.
i think that you've developed a very unhealthy attachment to this guy, you feel that you can't leave him, and he's manipulated you into believing that. after all if he's being paid 100% by ins. he has plenty of incentive to keep you on. i think the letter, cutting you off as a patient was meant as a threat, either you come back, or you're gone! i don't know, that's just my guess. i think he knows how threatened you'd feel by that. my guess is a good T, a caring T wouldn't do that.
i'm sorry your family won't help you, i'm sorry you're not up to calling. it does sound like you are very overwhelmed by life right now, and it sounds like this T has done you no favors kerria. one day i hope you can see that, admit it to yourself, and get out from under his thumb by choice.
fw
Posted by kerria on September 18, 2005, at 8:06:31
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by fairywings on September 18, 2005, at 6:57:15
It so difficult to do anything when you have parts of you that you can't communicate with.
This is the problem. No one can help. i need to try to commununicate somehow that it would be better for all inside if we find a new T or that T would find us a new T- even that would hurt a lot because we would feel so abandoned.
i was able to find a new T (a good T, someone speaking at the ISSD conference) once and then my parts needed to see T1 again and T2 was upset and terminated.
Thank you, fw, rs and JenStar. it's so hard to come in here. Please don't say you're sorry- even that has turned into a triggering thing because when T said it he meant that he wouldn't change to be more caring and supportive to help me.
please just forget it. i'm switching a lot and it feels bad for me to read my writing here.
everything is so hard.Take care,
kerria
Posted by fairywings on September 18, 2005, at 8:57:41
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 18, 2005, at 8:06:31
maybe when he goes on vacation you could have an appointment with another T. that's how i got going with the T i'm with now. i'm glad i made the change. i hope you can do it too kerria, i know it will be very, very hard, but i just don't think this T is going to help you get out of the place where you are now and help you get beyond this unhappy state. maybe i'm wrong, i hope i am. it seems you need a T who will be more intensive, and who has a more personable way. i only wish i could help you, i wish i could make those calls for you, and take you by the hand, and take you to the new Ts, and not let you go back to the mean T because i've been there before, and i know how hard it is to switch to a new one. the first time it took me at least several months to quit mourning, even though the guy was no good for me.
fw
Posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2005, at 16:24:07
In reply to T says he's sorry. That's all :(, posted by kerria on September 17, 2005, at 0:55:51
Okay. I'm going to be frank because I don't think b*llshit will help at this point either.
Take what you can / will.
The way you describe your therapist... It sounds as though he is ENCOURAGING you to remain split. It sounds like he is ENCOURAGING your different parts to communicate with him which is doing nothing whatsoever towards helping you develop internal communication.
And to me... That is precisely how to make someone worse, not how to encourage them to get better.
But with respect to what others have said about taking responsibility for the actions of your body... I have to say that I agree. It doesn't sound like you do that. But then, to be fair, from what you have said it doesn't sound like your therapist is doing much to encourage you to do that either. So it is a hard one.
> Lately i can't even manage to get to appts,
Okay, so that is a problem. It is a problem for you. It is hard for therapy to work if you don't even go. And I'm sure it is a horrible inconvenience to your therapist who has kept that time slot open for you.
> "Just identify with me."
> "I am with you in the pain"
> No, it's not good enough to just be here with me, Identify with me. How YOU would feel if you were me and had all these things happen.He can't do that.
And if he did do that... Then he most probably wouldn't be able to help you because then he'd be overwhelmed by the pain - just like you are. Other people don't have to catch our feeling in order to be able to help us. They just need to be sympathetic. Empathetic, sure, but for your therapist to catch your pain... What good would that do? It won't take your pain away. Your therapist can't do that. No human being can.
> Tears. T says he's sorry and he won't, he can't identify with me. He "feels" for me, his "heart goes out to me in my pain" but he can't/won't identify WITH me.Sounds to me like he does empathise. Pain isn't something that you can just give away to somebody else.
> How do you go to a T that can't imagine what it's like to be you?Sounds like he can imagine what it is like to the degree that is possible. What he can't do is live through them for you so you don't have to deal with them anymore.
> and always blames me or my parts for sabotaging my coming to therapy
Who is responsible for your not turning up to therapy if your body is not?
> my littles like him because he's the only one who talks to them.
You need to talk to them.
If you talk them then they won't need your t to talk to them.> i was able to find a new T (a good T, someone speaking at the ISSD conference) once and then my parts needed to see T1 again and T2 was upset and terminated.
Okay. So you started seeing a new t who you thought was quite good but then... Went back to see your old therapist so you were terminated by your new therapist. The reason for that... Is that if T2 is trying to get you to work on communicating with your parts yourself then your parts talking to your first therapist is only undoing all the work that the second therapist is trying to do with you.
Can you go back to the second therapist and say that the most important thing to do first is to promise not to see anyone else and work towards getting a contract with all your parts to keep that promise?
It is a hard one...
It sounds like your therapist says some fairly hurtful things at times. And that he isn't as sympathetic as he could be. And that he might not have the best strategies worked out with respect to helping you feel better.For me... alarm bells ring when you talk about him.
I have said before that I think you would be better off working with someone else.
But I think that other people would be a whole heap less willing to let you avoid internal communication by meeting communication needs themself. And I think that other people will terminate you if you keep going back to your current therapist.
If I was you...
I'd try to contact the therapist who terminated you.
Because terminating you at that point sounds like the right thing to do...
They can't help you if you can't contract to see just them.
But they can help you make that contract with yourself.
And in that way... They are starting to teach you how to be responsible for your actions.
And that is what will ultimately help you get better.
Make sense?
Posted by muffled on September 18, 2005, at 23:22:39
In reply to Re: T says he's sorry. That's all :( » kerria, posted by alexandra_k on September 18, 2005, at 16:24:07
Man you can think real good. I'm very impressed. I think its so cool how people come up with stuff from their own experiences. It just seems so much more valid to me.
Muffled :)
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