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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
The downside to feeling connected to your therapist is the propensity to push yourself to say those things you've been thinking about but were scared to say. I did that today and it was one of those sessions where I had each of you in my ear at different times, thinking about what you'd written about what you wished you had said, or actually did say, or regretted saying. So thank you all for your cosmic support today.
The topic, again, was how I feel about him and how that was evolving to include thinking about him teaching me that sex could be safe and feel good. At first we talked about how hard I was trying to crush these feelings, and he teased me about using a cattle prod on my "loving feelings" to try and corral them. I like how he refers to them, "loving feelings" --it doesn't sound adolescent and it gives room for the way they evolved from session to session. When we talked about sex, he gently pulled the details of the fantasy out, but I wasn't mortified, it was such a thoughtful discussion about what I wished and how it could be. He talked enough to not leave me hanging in the silence too, which was important. He straight out asked me if I saw myself with someone other than my husband and I said, "yes, you."
I watched for signs of flinching, but didn't detect any. I was brave enough to ask him to tell me what he was thinking and not just the usual "everything is OK to say in here" speech. He laughed and said, "Well everything IS OK to say in here" but then he looked me straight in the eyes and said he was really OK with everything we'd been talking about and in fact he was deeply touched and honored. I had to ask, "Even about imagining having sex with you?" and to that he said he was flattered. I said, "That was NOT the answer I expected." He said why not, of course, and I said I expected him to be insulted. He shook his head and then I said, "What if you are the only one I ever think I could ever be safe with?" He said "it's a start. And it's OK."
There was lots of other stuff, some of it painful and hard. I need to think about how to share more of it. I'm a little amazed at myself but really glad I finally said a lot more of what I've been thinking about. We still have a ton of work to do because I discovered a number of things about how I view sex that surprised me today. But for now, having him accept these longings and questions feels like a gift. Which is another surprise. I'm not surprised he handled it well, I'm surprised to discover I was holding my breath. And now I can let it out. At least a little.
I know I've posted a lot about this and you are all probably sick of it. But you have no idea how much all of your input helped me today. So thank you. I love you all. :)
Posted by gardenergirl on September 9, 2005, at 1:26:45
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Daisy,
What an incredible session! I'm so glad for you, and that you feel a bit better having gotten that out.Wow.
gg
Posted by crazy teresa on September 9, 2005, at 9:20:10
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
That is so touching! He must be a very kind and gentle person.
You were very brave to tell him! Isn't it a great feeling to have taken such a big chance and hit the jackpot?!
And no way are we sick of your posting about it! You keep right on doing what you're doing. Maybe your posts will inspire someone who reads them to deal with their own issues. That is a gift to all of us.
crazy t
Posted by luvdove on September 9, 2005, at 9:21:07
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Wow... think you're really brave! Sounds like you've got a fantastic T who can openly discuss your 'loving feelings' without feeling uncomfortable..
luv
Posted by cricket on September 9, 2005, at 9:46:52
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Wow, Daisy. It is inspiring and wonderful. Even though my own therapy has gone horribly wrong, your stories make me feel like I wasn't such an idiot to try.
Keep posting please.
Posted by B2chica on September 9, 2005, at 11:20:07
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
That's SO Great daisy!
you sound stronger in your message. he's right, this is a great start.
b2c.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 9, 2005, at 14:08:03
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » daisym, posted by crazy teresa on September 9, 2005, at 9:20:10
>>Maybe your posts will inspire someone who reads them to deal with their own issues.
Daisy's posts have been inspiring me for months. There is NO WAY I could have, would have, said half the honest things I've said to my T. without this influence always in the back of my mind. So in a way, she's assisted in deepening MY therapy many times ......
(...thanks again, dear Daisy (and Daisy's T.) :-))>That is a gift to all of us.
It sure is - well said, crazy t.
Posted by Annierose on September 9, 2005, at 15:41:58
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
HI Daisy -
Please don't underestimate how much your posts helps all of us. If it wasn't for the frank conversations we tackle on babble, I don't think my therapy would be at the place it is now. Especially in the area of sex, I find your insight and bravery, honorable."He talked enough to not leave me hanging in the silence too, which was important" --- Gosh, I know that feeling.
Breathe .... you keep amazing us with your strength! Enjoy the weekend. In the midwest, it's supposed to be delightful. Maybe it's time to visit the Cider Mill.
Posted by Dinah on September 9, 2005, at 18:44:07
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Your therapist's sensitivity and skill never fail to amaze me. You have quite a treasure there.
I can guarantee you my therapist wouldn't have handled that anywhere near like that.
Posted by Tamar on September 9, 2005, at 20:07:49
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Daisy, your posts help me so much. Thank you for sharing your therapy experiences with us all. I find it enormously reassuring that your therapist is so accepting of your feelings (it’s a vicarious experience for me…).
I’m so glad your therapist said he was flattered to be the recipient of your loving feelings, and that it’s OK to feel that you could feel safe with him. And I so glad he made it clear that he wasn’t insulted.
I think it’s an amazing way of discovering things about how you view sex. It can be hard, but with a therapist like yours I really think there’s a possibility of change.
I’m definitely not sick of you posting about this stuff. In fact, I’m deeply grateful.
(((((Daisy)))))
I hope it continues to go well for you.
Tamar
Posted by sleepygirl on September 9, 2005, at 22:26:30
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Wow, that was some bravery on your part. I am quite impressed. I barely touch this topic. Good for you. :-)
Posted by fairywings on September 9, 2005, at 22:41:47
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
Hi daisy,
I agree with everyone you have been so brave, and your T has been so kind and sensitive.
and what annie said esp. hit a chord, the frank discussions allow us to open up where we might not otherwise have opened up. it's so great that you feel so connected and that you have been able to push yourself, and that your T has been able to respond with unflinching honesty. you are truly blessed!I have a question. how did you feel about your T when you started with him? did you find him attractive at all? did you have any idea that you would be attracted to him? was he "your type", or not at all your type. if you don't want to answer that, it's okay, i was just curious what your initial reaction to him was.
thanks,
fw
Posted by daisym on September 10, 2005, at 0:06:25
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » daisym, posted by fairywings on September 9, 2005, at 22:41:47
When I first met him I was surprised by how "normal" he looked. I don't know what exactly I was expecting. I thought he was about my age, but he is 10 years older. He isn't a big man, he's about 5'8" or 9" with a medium build. He has dark hair and brown eyes and a small beard, not a goatee but close...I think the facial hair threw me at first, too Freudian. But I thought he was cute, and he was dressed casual but nice. But I didn't think "wow, he's hot" either.
I don't know if I ever had a type -- I met my husband when I was 18. But in high school I was drawn to guys with great voices and my therapist has a GREAT voice. (Not as good as Fallsfall's, no English accent, but still.) And he is a smart a** and so am I. We agree that humor is the last bastion of sanity. :) I think he is the kind of guy I was always friends with, interested in politics, he reads, likes the theater, enjoys word plays and jokes, etc. But I dated either jocks or bad boys. And not very many of those.
There are lots of reasons I chose him as my therapist, none of them were based on the kind of therapy I expected because I didn't know what to expect. Mostly I liked that he was honest, made no promises about what would happen or how long it would take and when I would say "I want to just push through this or that" he would almost always answer, "but I don't work like that."
I didn't expect to ever be attracted to him, I just don't do that with anyone. And being the arrogant person that I am, I felt I could keep it together and NOT be one of THOSE therapy patients...I'd do it better and quicker than most people and impress the hell out of him. I now laugh at myself.
He definately worked at getting me connected to him. He made himself available and brought my feelings about therapy and then him, into the room. He often referred to my feelings as fragile shoots in the sidewalk, easily stepped on and crushed. That doesn't mean he was seductive, he just very slowly over two years helped me feel and express my attachment. And made it OK. The attachment shocks me more than the attraction. I'm not sure why yet. I still feel like a cliche.
OK, I spilled. Now, what was your initial impression of your therapist?
Posted by All Done on September 10, 2005, at 2:16:46
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
> then I said, "What if you are the only one I ever think I could ever be safe with?" He said "it's a start. And it's OK."
I'm surprised at how this struck a chord with me, Daisy. I guess I've kind of addressed the issue with my T when I told him I don't understand how some of my feelings toward him are helpful. Can I really learn how to feel safe with someone else (namely my husband)? I don't understand how the process works and I feel like I'll always be "stuck" just having feelings toward my T.
I'm glad your T told you it was a start. Let me know if he tells you how it's going to end up, k? ;)
BTW, thank you for posting. Sometimes I feel like we're addressing a lot of the same topics in therapy. When you post, you put a lot of my feelings (and parts of my sessions) into words in a way I can't seem to do.
Posted by Dinah on September 10, 2005, at 8:02:52
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » fairywings, posted by daisym on September 10, 2005, at 0:06:25
Posted by fairywings on September 10, 2005, at 9:06:58
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » fairywings, posted by daisym on September 10, 2005, at 0:06:25
Hi daisy,
When i asked i was thinking that I would guess we all go into therapy thinking that we're beyond thinking we'd ever fall for our T, and that even if we started to feel that way, we could overcome it somehow, but it seems like it's a normal progression, and one that can't be helped. I don't want it to happen this time, I hope it doesn't. It seems to tiring, like it would take too much energy, be too consuming, and take too much away from other things. I just really don't want it.
Your T sounds like someone i'd be attracted to, so i'd have to probably not go to him knowing right off i'd be attracted to him! LOL but he does sound really wonderful, and like he's so good to work with, and i know that's what it's all about, so the physical stuff shouldn't be what's considered when you're looking for someone.
It's interesting to me that you said there have been times when you've wanted to push through therapy. I think that's my feeling right now. Let's just get this messy stuff over with, and be done with it. There are times when I'm amazed at the things you even think of because I don't consider them, like even wondering what to expect, or the type of therapy. I have no idea what to expect. gives me foder for thought.
I have absolutely no attraction to my T what so ever. He's very nice, very kind, very sweet, and I'm thinking, this is someone I won't feel an attraction to, and I can just do the therapy thing, and get on with this. Heck I don't even know if he's straight! LOL Could be, maybe not, I don't know. Can't guess how tall, I don't pay attention. Shorter than 6', for sure. He has dark hair, some grey, full beard, bleh, and a trim body. I did notice he looks good in jeans, because I think when a guy looks good in jeans, he looks good in jeans! and i do like a guy who looks good in jeans. My hubby does. My Ts voice isn't anything special. He does get very passionate about issues he feels strongly about, which is nice, and he's sure not afraid to tell you what he thinks, but he's never rude, mean, inconsiderate, or anything remotely like that. It's just that he's honest and doesn't beat around the bush. At this point I don't know him well enough to know anything personal, but I'd guess he travels - has lots of stuff in his office that would point to that, and has tons of psych type books. He does have a dog, a very nice dog! ; )
Thanks for your honesty, i appreciate your thoughts.
fw
Posted by daisym on September 10, 2005, at 16:02:33
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!), posted by fairywings on September 10, 2005, at 9:06:58
I strongly suspect that the physical aspects have nothing to do with attraction in therapy, unless they are gorgeous from the beginning. Women get attracted to women who aren't gay, so go figure.
As far as pushing through...be careful. I wanted to do this so badly that I flooded myself emotionally. I told my therapist that I would take a week off and just "work" out all the memories and feelings and tears and be done with it. I damn near ended up in a padded room incoherent and I was so suicidal it was scary. So DON'T do that. Sometimes you get flooded anyway, just doing the work. I think is stinks that we have to go throught the trauma twice, first for real and the second time with feelings. I'm still shocked at how in the moment it can feel, like it just happened. Frozen feelings that thaw are painfully fresh again.
The other thing my therapist likes to say is, "the psyche has its own timeline." You don't just get to choose when this stuff pushes its way into your life. You can choose to ignore it, or act out in a different way, but it's there, in some way, shape or form. So don't beat yourself up for opening pandora's box if you find things harder or you are distracted for awhile. I think we all sometimes think, "if I hadn't started therapy, I wouldn't feel like this." It is so easy to forget why we were driven to therapy in the first place.
I'm liking your new therapist more and more. They all blunder once in awhile, but it sounds like he'll own it and work through it with you. :)
Posted by fairywings on September 10, 2005, at 19:33:16
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » fairywings, posted by daisym on September 10, 2005, at 16:02:33
> I strongly suspect that the physical aspects have nothing to do with attraction in therapy,
Yeah, I guess you're right because i think when i'm attracted, it's the manner of the person, not the physical. see, there u go again daisy, i didn't think of that b4 u said it. why can't i think of these things? i think if i could i'd be a lot better at all of this.
>
> As far as pushing through...be careful. I wanted to do this so badly that I flooded myself emotionally. I told my therapist that I would take a week off and just "work" out all the memories and feelings and tears and be done with it.I don't understand, i have been so consumed by what's going on. maybe a new thread for this? i will post, i need advice. so confusing to me, i didn't realize this could happen.
>I damn near ended up in a padded room incoherent and I was so suicidal it was scary. So DON'T do that.
i'm SO sorry that happened to you daisy, it is overwhelming to see how this can happen. i'm so glad you had your T to help you through it. how far into therapy were you when it happened?
>
> The other thing my therapist likes to say is, "the psyche has its own timeline." You don't just get to choose when this stuff pushes its way into your life. You can choose to ignore it, or act out in a different way,this is fascinating to me, u have an awsome T, so full of wisdom. i guess that's why things are so on my mind now, and why i can't shake it. i wish i weren't inflicting it all on my family though. i feel so sorry for them.
> I'm liking your new therapist more and more.i like him too, and i think he can really help me.
thanks daisy, you're always so kind.
fw
Posted by orchid on September 10, 2005, at 20:29:58
In reply to Talking about sex (again!), posted by daisym on September 9, 2005, at 0:27:52
We are not sick of it. In fact, I think lot of us do benefit immensely reading your posts.
Your T is awesome, and he handles you extremely well and it gives lot of insight to all of us. I personally, always enjoy reading your posts.
I do think this therapy is really very helpful for you. Stick to your openness with your T, and I am sure he will guide you through these feelings with as little pain as possible. You are in good hands.
I am personally grateful that you are sharing all your sessions here. Do keep posting here as much as you need if that helps you.
Posted by Annierose on September 10, 2005, at 22:26:46
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » daisym, posted by orchid on September 10, 2005, at 20:29:58
Daisy -
I found this article while surfing tonight. Thought of this thread. The paragraph near the end interested me.
www.Psychotherapy, an Erotic RelationCountertransference Passions -- ship: Transference and Oscherwitz 7 (4): 323 -- Journal of P.com
Not sure if this copy and paste worked ... wish my daughter was awake, she could do this is a second.I really want to explore this love-transference more in my therapy.
Posted by luvdove on September 11, 2005, at 3:36:02
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!), posted by Annierose on September 10, 2005, at 22:26:46
Hi Annierose, that article sounds interesting! though unfortunately the link didn't work.. I found one on this topic a while ago that might interest you... it's called "Psychotherapy: A special kind of love".. ignore the word 'hypnosis' in the link, the article has nothing to do with that!
http://hypnosis.org/therapysite/special.htm
Luv
Posted by Annierose on September 11, 2005, at 7:23:40
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » Annierose, posted by luvdove on September 11, 2005, at 3:36:02
Thanks for that article. It's interesting to read about this and experience parts of it at the same time. I'm going to try to get that link to work later today on the other article.
Posted by 10derHeart on September 11, 2005, at 12:51:39
In reply to Re: Talking about sex (again!) » Annierose, posted by luvdove on September 11, 2005, at 3:36:02
Hi luvdove,
So glad you posted this link! I meant to ages ago, but I forgot (darn brain!)
I think this guy's writing is right on target and very helpful. I printed out all he wrote on this subject last year when I was having to say goodbye to my former T. who moved away. I found it really helped me a lot with those transference/not-tranference questions you might ask yourself, and to understand why the relationship was so intense and meant so much to me, etc.
It's written in such a warm and positive way, and really paints an awesome picture of the therapy relationship, IMO. I think it's very affirming to anyone struggling - especially if there are guilty, confused or even shameful feelings about experiencing love for a T.
This is the end of the thread.
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