![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Therapy has been a waste lately. We've been *chatting*. He didn't understand the thing about "I". And the biggest reason is that I'm avoiding the topic most on my mind because I know he doesn't agree with me, and I see no reason fighting about it.
I think it's a bad thing that I've internalized him, grown stronger, and need him less. Growing up also comes to mind, but my therapist prefers that I avoid that term because I have such negative feelings about it.
He doesn't see how those things can be a bad thing.
But they are!!!! They lessen my need for him. He says I can still need to see him, or want to see him even if I don't need to. That I don't need to lose him just because my need is lessening.
Pbbbbttttttt!!!!!!
The way I see it, need and fear of loss are to a therapeutic relationship what passion is to a romantic relationship. It's the glue to the attachment. It binds you closer to the other person, gives an intensity to the relationship.
The difference is that, ideally, when the passion ebbs from a committed romantic relationship, there are other things that bind two people close together. A shared life, shared love for children, memories, goals.
But what replaces need and fear of loss in a therapeutic relationship? Nothing. Or at least I can't think of anything that puts energy in a therapeutic relationship other than need, fear of loss, and passion (however unrequited). I wish I *were* in love with him, even though it would be unrequited, because it would provide that tie that binds. But I just don't feel that way about him. I don't really feel that way about anyone, but if I were able to, it wouldn't be him.
I need to be drawn back in, attached more firmly, or I am miserable and life barely seems worth living. But I just can't find a way to do it without the same sort of need I used to have. :(
I suspect that one reason he doesn't understand is because it was, of course, one sided. The need, the binding, the connection, was all on my side.
So he doesn't understand how different it feels.
I'm really depressed.
And I can't really talk about it with him, because as many times as I try, I can't really convey that yes, I know there are good things about internalizing him and growing stronger, but they're nowhere near as valuable to me as the connection based on need was. So what I'm gaining is nowhere near as valuable to me as what I'm giving up. He knows that in order to climb a ladder you have to give up the rung you're on to reach for the next rung. But he doesn't *know* that the next rung is worthless to me if I lose the rung I had. And I just can't seem to explain it to him.
I left him a series of voicemails Friday trying to explain this. He didn't call me back. I hadn't asked him to. But I have this sneaking fear that he's going to turn what I said into something icky again. :(
Posted by Shortelise on August 21, 2005, at 11:43:30
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Oh, Dinah! Of course there are things that remain, you silly woman!! (said very affectionately and with great resepct!!)
There is trust, there is the knowing of each other, there is understanding, there is HISTORY, there is the truth of everything that has passed between you.
I think there is something else going on here for you Dinah. And idea what it is?
((Dinah))
ShortE
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 11:57:02
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on August 21, 2005, at 11:43:30
Yes, there is all that. But that isn't enough to feel that intensity of connection to him. It's like a friendship where the two people no longer talk all night on the phone, but meet up for coffee now and again. It's not necessarily bad, but it is different, and not in a good way. And I'm not sure it's worth $220 a week.
I may not need him, but I do need that intense connection. And I need it with him.
I want to get it back, and he won't even help me with that, because he thinks my development (again avoiding growth) is healthy.
Bah.
Posted by annierose on August 21, 2005, at 13:11:28
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 11:57:02
Dinah -
I do understand what you are saying, that you like the intensity of the relationship, and you miss "needing" him in that way. I wish I had some pearls of wisdom for you. As I am at the beginning of my journey in therapy (this time around) and look forward, I think, to feeling less intense about her ... although I share with you, wanting to maintain a theraputic relationship with my therapist for a long long time, even if it's just for occasional support.
In all relationships, the intensity never lasts, but something else takes its place (ShortE's post). I don't think human relationships can maintain that level of intensity, it may wane, but come back, taking on another dimension as both parties evolve. Marriage is a prime example. I ebb and flow from thinking, "I love my husband so much and wish he was here right now" to "Why did I marry such a *ss? Doesn't he get it!" My therapist would call that, living in the "gray zone", opposed to my normally black & white thinking.
You like how you feel when the intensity over-powers you .. is that right? It feels strong and a sort of "in love" (but I know you're not) for the first time type of feeling?
As I said, I don't have any profound thoughts. Just wanted to let you know I understand what you are expressing, I think. And this is material for the therapy room.
Annierose
Posted by Fallsfall on August 21, 2005, at 13:18:27
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Shortelise, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 11:57:02
>And I can't really talk about it with him, because as many times as I try, I can't really convey that yes, I know there are good things about internalizing him and growing stronger, but they're nowhere near as valuable to me as the connection based on need was. So what I'm gaining is nowhere near as valuable to me as what I'm giving up. He knows that in order to climb a ladder you have to give up the rung you're on to reach for the next rung. But he doesn't *know* that the next rung is worthless to me if I lose the rung I had. And I just can't seem to explain it to him.
You need to keep talking to him about this. This *IS* your therapy. It may take 6 months to get him to understand what you mean (or actually, for the two of you to understand the same thing), but that time would be worth it.
*WHY* is this connection so critical to you? What do you get from the connection? What would it mean to your life to be without the connection? What would it mean if the connection changed into something else? Is the problem that you don't want to lose this connection or that you have something that is important to you and you don't want to lose something important?
Your question seems similar to my "what would happen if I stopped being depressed" question. It took months and months to go through my question, and it wasn't like all of a sudden he "understood" what I meant, nor that all of a sudden I "understood" what he meant. It was very much a process - a process that just kind of led us to a different place.
I guess this is the time when my therapist would say to you "Can you consider the possibility that you could have a meaningful life with a different connection to me?" My guess is that your first reaction to this question would be "No. I can't consider that" But the next question would be "Hypothetically, if we DID have a different connection, what would that mean?".
It was a very long, very repetitive process for me to see that I could be OK if I were no longer depressed. You have to be able to keep beating your head against the wall, even when it feels completely pointless. You feel yourself moving away from the connection (or the connection disolving), and that is terrifying to you. Very understandably.
Can you consider the possibility that at some point in the future you might be able to have a life worth living that has you having a different connection with him?
This is so hard, Dinah. But don't give up. Two years ago you couldn't have envisioned being where you are today. But you have gotten here.
(((((Dinah)))))
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 17:49:30
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by annierose on August 21, 2005, at 13:11:28
Annierose, it means a lot just to be understood. I have a distinctly head banging feeling at therapy.
I know I *should* talk about it in therapy a lot more. Especially since I find myself bored stiff and just chatting because I'm avoiding the topic.
It's just that I hate to argue with someone I care about, or anyone really. If it's clear we'll never agree, I'd rather just agree to disagree and drop it.
Not very therapeutic, I know. :(
Posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 17:51:25
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by Fallsfall on August 21, 2005, at 13:18:27
Yeah, but I didn't *want* to get here. I want to go back. :(
I guess it will take a while. I tried to think about your questions, and I just draw a frightened blank. I know it takes time.
On the positive side, I knew that Babblers would have more thought provoking answers to my dilemma than my therapist did. lol. He should pay you guys a consultant fee.
Posted by Tamar on August 21, 2005, at 17:55:40
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Hi Dinah,
I’m trying to work out if I’ve understood you right. When you talk about wanting to need your therapist, do you mean it’s the intensity of the need you want?
Could a different kind of intensity work for you? Like, for example, if you fell in love with him (it’s just an example; I know you can’t imagine falling in love with him).
I was interested when you said:
> The way I see it, need and fear of loss are to a therapeutic relationship what passion is to a romantic relationship. It's the glue to the attachment. It binds you closer to the other person, gives an intensity to the relationship.… because I don’t remember feeling that I *needed* my therapist. I mean, I knew I needed therapy in order to get healthier. But the intensity of my feelings sprung from wanting rather than needing. I *wanted* him. (I’m not talking about sex, just for once; although of course I wanted him in that way too.) I wanted to be in session with him; I wanted to look at his face, to hear his voice, to talk to him, to be understood by him. For me it was all about desire (not just the sexual kind). I wonder if that indicates a difference in the sorts of things we’ve been working on… for me it was about working on what I wanted; for you perhaps it’s about working on need and fear of loss. I know that I hate the thought of no longer wanting him, though after all these months I’m wanting him a little less. But I think you’re right that the thing that’s missing is the intensity of feeling.
> I think it's a bad thing that I've internalized him, grown stronger, and need him less. Growing up also comes to mind, but my therapist prefers that I avoid that term because I have such negative feelings about it.
Well, if that term comes to mind, maybe that’s the best term to use, and maybe it’s something you need to talk about. Maybe the negative feelings you have about your lack of need are similar to the negative feelings you have about growing up. If your childhood and teenage years were marred by need and loss, then you might well resist ‘growing up’ in therapy.
> The difference is that, ideally, when the passion ebbs from a committed romantic relationship, there are other things that bind two people close together. A shared life, shared love for children, memories, goals.
Yes… and I hope also some love for the other person, even if it’s not the passion it once was. Can it be similar in therapy? Can you experience love for each other, shared memories and shared therapeutic goals, with a little less intensity, and still enjoy your relationship?
> But what replaces need and fear of loss in a therapeutic relationship? Nothing. Or at least I can't think of anything that puts energy in a therapeutic relationship other than need, fear of loss, and passion (however unrequited). I wish I *were* in love with him, even though it would be unrequited, because it would provide that tie that binds. But I just don't feel that way about him. I don't really feel that way about anyone, but if I were able to, it wouldn't be him.
Interesting that you say you wish you *were* in love with him. In a way, it’s a sensible direction to take in ‘growing up’ in therapy. But maybe it’s going too far too fast. Maybe a better first step would be to try to find the intensity a person finds with like-minded friends. Maybe he’d grow new faces… I mean, as well as being your therapist/mommy he could be your therapist/best-friend. And I think we really do need our friends. I don’t see that you have to lose your therapist/mommy because he’ll always be there for you. But maybe he can be more than one thing to you; he can be the thing you need next in your journey, if that makes sense. I think I’ve really needed my friends at various points, and there were times when my friends were the most important thing in my life, even when I was quite small.
> He knows that in order to climb a ladder you have to give up the rung you're on to reach for the next rung. But he doesn't *know* that the next rung is worthless to me if I lose the rung I had. And I just can't seem to explain it to him.
I think the thing about a ladder is that it’s useless if the lower rungs fall off as you climb. You need the lower rungs to stay there so you can climb back down when you need to. And there will almost inevitably be times when you need to go down again. Perhaps internalizing him should guarantee that the lower rungs are securely attached to the ladder so that you can climb up a little, knowing as you climb that you can return to the ground if you need to. Perhaps you’re no longer standing on the lower rungs, but they’re still there if you need to use them again. I think that’s what you need to be sure of before you can move up the ladder. And you can climb very slowly if you like; you can keep checking the lower rungs are there. But nevertheless, you need the whole ladder, because your hands are on the upper rungs, keeping your feet secure on the lower rungs.
> I left him a series of voicemails Friday trying to explain this. He didn't call me back. I hadn't asked him to. But I have this sneaking fear that he's going to turn what I said into something icky again. :(
I hope he doesn’t turn it into something icky!
I dunno… maybe I’m way off the mark. But I think even if you don’t need him for the same reasons you used to, there are other ways to need him and other ways to make the connection. Perhaps it’s a question of finding out what that would look like and feel like.Tamar
Posted by Fallsfall on August 21, 2005, at 19:12:30
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Fallsfall, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 17:51:25
I know that frightened blank. So the next question is why is so scary to even think about considering these possibilities? What *does* it mean for a relationship to change? What relationships have you had that did change?
When I first asked those questions, you threw on a couple of layers of onion. Now you need to peel the layers one at a time. Eventually you will get to the inside.
I guess I'm just trying to encourage you to talk about the elephant in the room. Just trying to give you some hope that if you talk about it it will get easier/better - that it will resolve. It can take a long time even if you talk about it. So you don't have to worry about making major changes right away.
If you can figure out why it is so frightening, then maybe you won't have to be so scared.
Posted by LadyBug on August 21, 2005, at 22:38:07
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Oh Dinah, why does it have to be so complicated sometimes???
My terapist told me on Fri that I want it to be *good* all the time and it simply can't be that way. Life isn't that way.
I am in a struggling place right now too. I don't know if I want to quit therapy, or continue on trying to figure out what seems I've been trying to figure out all my life and can't.
Are you glad you don't seem TOO attached to him? Or are you TOO attached just in a different way.
My T. is a female, so there is no *icky* feelings going on. I seem to want to see her more often and know more about her personal life.
I find myself sitting in her office feeling like the little girl that has to be good or else her mommy won't like her. My fear kicks in and tells me if I have issues and I don't like therapy that my T. won't want to work with me anymore.
I am getting worn out from all the brain work. I'm wondering if anyone really truely comes away from therapy healed and glad they went. What would the percentage be??? Less than 10 percent???
Hang in there sweetie, we will get through this some how. Kepp writing!
LadyBug
Posted by daisym on August 22, 2005, at 0:10:51
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
From out here in left field, I wonder...
if you aren't hugely needy and the intensity of your fear has died down, what then will shield you from working on some of your more painful issues? I'm being really presumptuous in saying you have other issues, but it seems to me that in the past you've talked about going to a sex therapist and you've talked about some abandonment fears. Maybe now is the time to address some of the issues you have in your box. I suspect that a few good sessions focused on you will help you reconnect. At least I hope so.
And I know you've said you've cut back on sessions or taken breaks before. Perhaps this is one of those times.
Whatever else happens, I do hope you can continue to talk about this with him. It feels important, like a shift is occuring. I wish it felt better for you, and not like a loss. It does feel so empty and lonely when the disconnect occurs.
Posted by cricket on August 22, 2005, at 12:32:33
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Hi Dinah,
I certainly understand a therapist's not being able to understand :-(
Can you sense the age that you feel like when you need him and feel comfortable with that need? Is it pre-school age or older?
Was that a time of attachment - back to attachment again :-( - that was comfortable with your mother? I know you said once that you couldn't wait to go to school to get away from her. Was that when it began to fall apart? You were separate and had your own ideas and she didn't like that very much.
I'm not sure where I'm going here, and it is probably irrelevant, but I know that the time when I feel most comfortable and secure with my therapist is at the very beginning of therapy when he is finding his papers, getting his tea, rooting through his bag, checking his cellphone, basically knowing that I'm there but ignoring me.
It seems like a strange thing to like and I've even gone so far as to want to ask him, "Could I just sit here today and you can work on your laptop or whatever, but not pay any attention to me?"
But I think I feel most comfortable and secure because it approximates my very early, pre-verbal relationship with my grandmother. She would go about her daily work, I don't think she paid much attention to me, but I could just watch her and that I think was comforting.
So could it be something like that with you and your therapist? The time when you just need him/her, before you realize he/she is really different and doesn't quite suit you at all?
Posted by LauraBeane on August 22, 2005, at 16:31:51
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Hi Dinah, please forgive me for barging in. I just thought I would suggest that, as distasteful or useless as it may seem, it may be incredibly important that you continue to discuss/argue about this with him. Even if you know you will never change his mind, even though you dislike arguing with people you love. Talking/arguing about it will at the very least keep him engaged in this issue that is so crucial to you. Even if you don't flip him, he will have to take pause.
Do you think he might possibly feel that you two were at an impasse prior to this shift in your therapeutic relationship. You know how therapists hate The Impasse. They like to Move, even just a tiny bit. But I don't see why he can't understand. You verbalize it so well in your post. You speak for a lot of us who pick at that tangled knot -- I don't want to get better, I want to stay here, why can't I stay? And yet for me at least, I can't live the way I was before I went into therapy. That's why I sought him out.
You have every right to those feelings. It is such a quandry.
I am sorry you're feeling such distress right now.
LB
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:05:15
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by Tamar on August 21, 2005, at 17:55:40
Agh. The babble monster ate my first reply.
> I’m trying to work out if I’ve understood you right. When you talk about wanting to need your therapist, do you mean it’s the intensity of the need you want?
I guess it's actually the intensity of connection I need. I just don't know any other way to get it than through need.
>
> Could a different kind of intensity work for you? Like, for example, if you fell in love with him (it’s just an example; I know you can’t imagine falling in love with him).Yes, that would probably work, although it would also be very painful and embarassing. But I'd put up with that if I could keep the connection. Unfortunately, it isn't going to happen.
> I was interested when you said:
> > The way I see it, need and fear of loss are to a therapeutic relationship what passion is to a romantic relationship. It's the glue to the attachment. It binds you closer to the other person, gives an intensity to the relationship.
>
> … because I don’t remember feeling that I *needed* my therapist. I mean, I knew I needed therapy in order to get healthier. But the intensity of my feelings sprung from wanting rather than needing. I *wanted* him. (I’m not talking about sex, just for once; although of course I wanted him in that way too.) I wanted to be in session with him; I wanted to look at his face, to hear his voice, to talk to him, to be understood by him. For me it was all about desire (not just the sexual kind). I wonder if that indicates a difference in the sorts of things we’ve been working on… for me it was about working on what I wanted; for you perhaps it’s about working on need and fear of loss. I know that I hate the thought of no longer wanting him, though after all these months I’m wanting him a little less. But I think you’re right that the thing that’s missing is the intensity of feeling.I don't know if I *can* purely want someone enough to keep the level of connection at that level. I don't know if I'm capable of it.
> > Growing up also comes to mind, but my therapist prefers that I avoid that term because I have such negative feelings about it.
>
> Well, if that term comes to mind, maybe that’s the best term to use, and maybe it’s something you need to talk about.We've had no real luck coming to the root of my absolutel horror at the very idea. I think it probably has to do with sex. But it may also have to do with responsibility...
> > The difference is that, ideally, when the passion ebbs from a committed romantic relationship, there are other things that bind two people close together. A shared life, shared love for children, memories, goals.
>
> Yes… and I hope also some love for the other person, even if it’s not the passion it once was. Can it be similar in therapy? Can you experience love for each other, shared memories and shared therapeutic goals, with a little less intensity, and still enjoy your relationship?I don't think so. I don't want to insult my therapist. I'm sure he has many fine and useful qualities. And I love him dearly for the safety and security and commitment he has brought to my life. But I'm not sure I really enjoy spending time with him as a person. It isn't a meeting of the two like minds or anything. He's made a wonderful therapist/mommy to me for reasons I don't quite understand but probably have something to do with his very essence. His steadiness and calming demeanor. But I'm not sure he'd make a good therapist/friend. There's more mutuality involved in that. And if mutuality is needed, we'd be a bust. It's really astonishing how well the therapeutic relationship met my needs considering how really little we have in common.
> > He knows that in order to climb a ladder you have to give up the rung you're on to reach for the next rung. But he doesn't *know* that the next rung is worthless to me if I lose the rung I had. And I just can't seem to explain it to him.
>
> I think the thing about a ladder is that it’s useless if the lower rungs fall off as you climb. You need the lower rungs to stay there so you can climb back down when you need to. And there will almost inevitably be times when you need to go down again. Perhaps internalizing him should guarantee that the lower rungs are securely attached to the ladder so that you can climb up a little, knowing as you climb that you can return to the ground if you need to. Perhaps you’re no longer standing on the lower rungs, but they’re still there if you need to use them again. I think that’s what you need to be sure of before you can move up the ladder. And you can climb very slowly if you like; you can keep checking the lower rungs are there. But nevertheless, you need the whole ladder, because your hands are on the upper rungs, keeping your feet secure on the lower rungs.I sure hope so. I don't know what I'll do otherwise.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:06:49
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by Fallsfall on August 21, 2005, at 19:12:30
Well, that's an easy one. I don't think I've ever in my life experienced a relationship that changed for the better. Changes were always in the direction of loss and disconnection.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by LadyBug on August 21, 2005, at 22:38:07
I'm very lucky. I know my therapist feels an attachment for me that nothing I can say will change. I don't need to be good, or withhold things from him.
I'm not his favorite person, or someone that he has a lot in common with. I'm not someone he and his family would have over for dinner.
But he has the sort of fondness for me that comes from long acquaintance and much intimacy. And from commitment to working together.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:11:22
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by daisym on August 22, 2005, at 0:10:51
I know I have tons of issues. My therapist says that with exasperated emphasis when I fear that I'll lose him.
But the truth is that I used the transference relationship as an impetus to look at those issues. Without the strong feelings, I don't think I'll be motivated to do the hard work.
On the other hand, perhaps intensifying the work will bring back intensity to the relationship.
It's worth trying. Anything is.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:14:53
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by cricket on August 22, 2005, at 12:32:33
I lived with my grandma and grandpa and my mother for a couple of years when I was young. I adored my grandma and our relationship was very similar to what you describe.
I like it best when my therapist is totally focusing on the energy in the room. I don't like it *at all* when he's disengaged. I adore the space between us, and the energy that fills that space. It brings such healing and such room for self exploration.
Maybe that's what I'm really afraid to lose. The space between us, and the energy that's there when we're both fully present and fully engaged.
Posted by Dinah on August 22, 2005, at 19:23:35
In reply to Re: Need and attachment, posted by LauraBeane on August 22, 2005, at 16:31:51
There is never a question of barging in. The more input there is, the more questions I have to ask myself (and him) and the more likely I am to be able to make headway. Babble has been a very valuable source for my therapy.
I do know I need to talk about it. In fact, I have brought it up the past two or three sessions, toward the end after chatting for the first half hour or so. My reasons seem woefully transparent to me. I think I'm trying to start an argument before I leave to give myself something to engage me between sessions. But I also hate to fight, so I ignore it for the first many minutes until I get frustrated with boredom.
I don't think he was aware of an impasse. My therapist is very laissez faire. I think he's content with the status quo, and if I want to come and chat twice a week he's ok with that. He never ever pushes me. If any pushing is done, it's from me. That actually annoys me some, but I think he developed that technique because I get stubborn when pushed. On the other hand, it often looks like indifference. I guess the poor guy can't win. So my therapist is relatively content with the impasse, or at least appears to be.
Even about this, he's adamant that we don't have to talk about it, and just idly adds that he generally thinks it's best to talk about things. And that not talking about it is likely to make the phenomenon worse. But he first tells me with alacrity that I don't have to discuss anything I don't want to. It's sort of annoying. I'd rather he pull it from me. Again, his methods resemble indifference, although I understand that he developed them because of my attitude.
Posted by Tabitha on August 23, 2005, at 13:13:31
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
Dear Dinah, I went through some transitions in my therapy from feeling driven and need-based into something else. Here's the sequence I noticed..
1) felt a need to spew out all my problems and desperation every week. Never at a loss for a topic.
2) not so crisis-ridden anymore. Felt almost like I didn't belong in therapy, yet didn't feel "done" either. Often felt as if there was nothing to talk about. Felt less connected to my therapist during this period.
3) started talking more about goals, and practical functioning. It began to seem more engaging and important. This gradually started to feel a lot more significant and real than my former drama.
4) Still talking about goals, and also talking about small experiences of growth that I notice. This is really rewarding! I feel more connected to my therapist than I have in a long time.
Looking back, I don't miss the drama at all.
Posted by Dinah on August 23, 2005, at 17:38:20
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by Tabitha on August 23, 2005, at 13:13:31
Tabitha, it's wonderful to see you again. I've missed you. How are you doing? How is life and work and all that sort of thing.
Thank you so much for posting that. It helps me think there may be some hope that there is a future of sorts, when someone who has been through it has found a future. I don't know how many people stick through the second stage to find the third and fourth. :)
I know I'm not particularly inclined to at the moment. I'm so depressed I can barely breathe. (Not sure whether it's all therapy, or if it's also calorie deprivation.)
But I'll meditate on your post and try to find some hope.
Posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:26:56
In reply to Need and attachment, posted by Dinah on August 21, 2005, at 10:11:26
hi Dinah,
I'm sorry things are weird with him, and changing in a way that makes you sad. :( I'm sad for you too!I think I 'get' what you're talking about -- the ladder rung analogy was great & really helped me understand your thoughts. It makes sense to me, but then I tend to form strong attachments to people and get scared/upset/etc. when the relationship changes. And sometimes it gets BETTER, but until I see that I'm still upset because of the change.
I wonder what's in the future for you and your T? Do you have any ideas what you'll be like in a year or 2 years from now? Do you think it's possible that the diet and the other issues are messing with your mind (I know it does to me!) and making you more depressed?
I wish I could help. I'm here to listen!
take care of yourself.
JenStar
Posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 5:56:03
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Tabitha, posted by Dinah on August 23, 2005, at 17:38:20
Hi Dinah,
It sounds to me like you are thinking a great deal about this. I know that you process therapy on a deep intellectual level a lot of the time. I was wondering what it might be like for you to just go to therapy and just experience it without thinking about it.Kind of like the advice that Kevin Costner gave to Tim Robbins in Bull Durham: "Don't think, meat. Just throw."
I'm projecting my own therapy experience here, because whenever I try to logically understand the therapy process, my T points out that I've removed myself from that very process. It's a defense for me. So I can either sit and scratch my head and wonder and question about what's going on and what's supposed to be going on. Or what's around the next corner. Or I can just "be" in therapy. I do find that when I let go and just participate, it's usually more productive.
Just a thought.
gg
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 9:17:37
In reply to Re: Need and attachment » Dinah, posted by JenStar on August 25, 2005, at 0:26:56
I think it's absolutely almost sure that the diet is affecting the intensity of my response this week. And maybe the nature of it. I'm not an angry person in general. But when I go on a low carb diet, I'm horrid. That's why I avoid them. But they're also the only diet that works for me. On the other hand I felt both hunger and anger fade away yesterday.
Posted by Dinah on August 25, 2005, at 9:18:51
In reply to A maybe radical suggestion » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on August 25, 2005, at 5:56:03
Unfortunately all this angst is a result of the bored and restless feeling I've been getting while experiencing therapy lately. :)
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