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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 42. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
I think I'm not going to be able to talk to my therapist about this because he just doesn't understand, and I don't have the words to make him understand and my head hurts so from the pressure that i just want to explode or something. can i get a female therapist just to translate? will a female therapist understand?
I'm scared of female genitalia. Not girl's, but women's. I mostly know the bad names for it, not the right ones. I keep trying to explain to him that i don't have that, at least not the kind a woman has. I just don't. And that means so many things to me that they just press in on my head and bounce off and i can't grab them and i can't find any more words than that. i'm almost positive it's symbolic but maybe it's not and in either case he just doesn't understand what i mean when i say i don't have that and i don't think he ever will understand.
he keeps getting sidetracked by wanting me to use words for it, and that's just not the point and my head hurts so much just thinking about it and it was hard to tell him and he'll never understand and it's not fair.
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 12:51:13
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
> I think I'm not going to be able to talk to my therapist about this because he just doesn't understand, and I don't have the words to make him understand and my head hurts so from the pressure that i just want to explode or something. can i get a female therapist just to translate? will a female therapist understand?
I’m not sure a female therapist would understand just because she’s female. But I could be wrong. It might depend on her professional interests and experience. A sex therapist (male or female) might understand, perhaps.
> I'm scared of female genitalia. Not girl's, but women's. I mostly know the bad names for it, not the right ones.
Most of the names for it *are* bad names, and the names that aren’t bad sound so medical/clinical. My daughter’s friend calls her genitals her ‘flower’, but it’s quite unspecific (unless, I suppose, you extend the metaphor and start talking about petals and stamen etc).
> I keep trying to explain to him that i don't have that, at least not the kind a woman has. I just don't. And that means so many things to me that they just press in on my head and bounce off and i can't grab them and i can't find any more words than that. i'm almost positive it's symbolic but maybe it's not and in either case he just doesn't understand what i mean when i say i don't have that and i don't think he ever will understand.
Do you think of your own genitalia as childlike? Do you feel your sexual response is somehow immature or undeveloped? If so, I could imagine you don’t feel you have adult female genitalia. I suppose the question I’m intrigued by is whether you feel you don’t have genitalia at all, or whether you feel it’s a question of child genitalia rather than adult genitalia. I mention it because I was feeling recently that I think of my sexual response as immature and not fully adult. But I do think of my body as female rather than genderless. However, I’m pretty sure there are people who feel they don’t have genitals at all.
> he keeps getting sidetracked by wanting me to use words for it, and that's just not the point and my head hurts so much just thinking about it and it was hard to tell him and he'll never understand and it's not fair.I can imagine you can’t use a word to describe your body if you feel it’s not a word that describes your body. There’s no point trying to use words for it that don’t fit.
Maybe he’ll start to understand as you start to understand it better. But yes, it’s unfair. It’s hard enough to tell people stuff like that, without them failing to understand. Grrr!
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 13:24:06
In reply to Re: Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 12:51:13
Oh, did you ever open a can of worms for me Dinah. Let's go!
I have never liked the sight of my genitalia.
I find it kind of frightening-looking.
I don't like men looking, in general,
at that part of me, even though
a man finds it sexy, I find it scary
because it's so different, you know,
the colour of it is not the same as
anywhere else on my body.
And it behaves differently,
and it looks different,
and it feels different to touch.
I hate it when I have to have
my annual pap, because I'm sure
the doctor's thinking, ugh.
Now I know that's likely not true,
but it's pretty much the way I feel.
My mom used to think there was something
wrong with me. She took me to doctor
after doctor after doctor, starting from
as young as I can remember, four or five.
I started having normal female mucous,
but she thought, oh, there's something wrong.
She has a yeast, or something.
And from as young as I can remember,
I had to put these horrible tablets into
my poor little vagina, a virgin vagina,
and I remember once, my mother did it,
and she was quick, and harsh, almost doing it
like she hated me, and it hurt.
All the doctors were men.
One fondled me for a long time.
I was about thirteen.
He was trying to get me wet,
I know it now.
At the time, I was scared.
I was by myself with him, there.
And I never told anyone.
But when I was really little,
these doctors would have me lay
on the table, and my mother was
there sometimes, sometimes not.
I remember hours, hours wasted
waiting in doctor's offices
with my mother.What do you think that was really all about?
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 13:57:40
In reply to Re: Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 12:51:13
I no longer feel like I'm about to have a stroke. But I'm left with an awful migraine.
I'm sorry for the outburst.
It's the difference between little girl "flowers" and what women have that's at issue. They really are different, you know. I called him before my nap and left a message for him to try to brush up on his anatomy lessons before tomorrow.
He kept doing reality testing, like I wouldn't notice. :(
I know my thinking is distorted because what I see when I see a woman isn't even anatomically possible.
But he's missing the point, and I'm totally incapable of finding the words to make the point.
I think there's a female sex therapist in the area. If things reach an impasse, and they continue to feel as very important as they do, maybe she'd be willing to do a consult or something.
I know that maybe I expect him to understand too much. But reasonably on target questions isn't too much to expect, is it?
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 14:01:29
In reply to TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some., posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 13:24:06
> What do you think that was really all about?
Ultimately: probably fear of masturbation. People used to think it was immoral and harmful. Any symptoms you may have had would likely have been interpreted in that light (even if you weren't openly exploring your body, as most children do from time to time). Your mother might not have been consciously afraid of the 'harm' you could be doing to yourself, but it was cetainly part of the sociocultural landscape.
(((((Susan))))))
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:03:01
In reply to TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some., posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 13:24:06
How awful, Susan. Your mother must have had some trouble herself.
I'm afraid I don't even know what I'm about, so I can't hazard a guess other than that.
But I don't hate my body because I don't *have* one of those. I don't.
Posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 14:10:06
In reply to Re: TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some. » Susan47, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:03:01
I'm so confused, Dinah. What don't you have? Can you not describe it for us? I guess I'll understand if you can't, but I also certainly won't blame your T if he doesn't get it. Because I'm a "woman" and I think I might know exactly how you feel and *I* still don't get it.
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:18:17
In reply to Re: TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some. » Dinah, posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 14:10:06
Undo everything I said.
It's probably easier that way.
I'm out of other words. I only know one way to say it. Everything else is thoughts without words.
Ok. I must have been in a drug induced psychosis.
As Emily Litella would say "Never mind." :)
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 14:44:56
In reply to Klonopin and nap later » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 13:57:40
> I no longer feel like I'm about to have a stroke. But I'm left with an awful migraine.
Oh dear! I hope your head feels under less pressure soon.
> I'm sorry for the outburst.
No need to apologise! Outbursts are sometimes necessary, and possibly good for you.
> It's the difference between little girl "flowers" and what women have that's at issue. They really are different, you know. I called him before my nap and left a message for him to try to brush up on his anatomy lessons before tomorrow.
Yes, they are quite different, and I’m amazed at how little is generally known about the differences. (Little boys are also quite different from adult men; it’s not all about extra hair.)
> He kept doing reality testing, like I wouldn't notice. :(Maybe you should test *his* grasp of reality!
> I know my thinking is distorted because what I see when I see a woman isn't even anatomically possible.Are you willing or able to explain how you see a woman, and how it’s not anatomically possible?
> But he's missing the point, and I'm totally incapable of finding the words to make the point.
Maybe he’s thinking in Freudian terms: that whole penis envy thing. Or maybe he doesn’t know enough about female anatomy to understand your point.
> I think there's a female sex therapist in the area. If things reach an impasse, and they continue to feel as very important as they do, maybe she'd be willing to do a consult or something.That sounds like a good idea.
> I know that maybe I expect him to understand too much. But reasonably on target questions isn't too much to expect, is it?It probably depends on his outlook and experience. But yes, it would be nice if he asked you questions that would actually help instead of alienating you.
Did he ask you whether you feel this way about other women, or just yourself?
Did he ask you whether your own anatomy feels like an imposition, or an unwanted gift, or something like that?
Did he ask you which sensations scare you: how it looks, how it feels, how it smells, how it sounds?
Did he ask you whether what you have is safer than what an adult woman has?
That’s what I would have asked. But maybe I’m off the mark too.I hope your migraine is short-lived. It sounds as if all this is causing you much anxiety and frustration. But if you can bear to keep addressing it, I’m sure you’ll find the outcome rewarding.
Tamar
Posted by crushedout on May 2, 2005, at 14:54:23
In reply to Sigh. Perhaps I should take it all back., posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:18:17
OK. but that was a huge tease. I'm dying to know what you meant. and i'm sure you meant something.
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 15:36:11
In reply to Re: TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some. » Susan47, posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 14:01:29
No, no, no no no. Absolutely not that. My parents had the hottest sex life you could ever imagine. They used to love the idea, get a laugh out of it, I always knew that they thought it was funny their kids masturbated. And you know what? It was stress. Stress can make people masturbate, especially kids. I have a nephew my heart just goes right out to. No, it wasn't that, that to them (they were nudists too, ahem yuck, it was not a pleasure to watch mummy and daddy prancing around).
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 15:39:09
In reply to Sigh. Perhaps I should take it all back., posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:18:17
No, no way, I really really want to know what you mean you don't have one of those.
Now the only thing I can think of is what a friend once told me. He went out with a young woman who'd been affected by thalidomide and she had no vagina. I think she maybe didn't have a uterus, either. In any case, it was the worst thing I could imagine, almost. She didn't feel like a woman, but she is one.
When you say you don't have one of those, what is "those"?
Posted by Susan47 on May 2, 2005, at 15:42:51
In reply to Sigh. Perhaps I should take it all back., posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:18:17
> Undo everything I said.
>
> It's probably easier that way.
>
> I'm out of other words. I only know one way to say it.Okay, say it the one way. Say it.
Posted by thewrite1 on May 2, 2005, at 16:04:31
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
I was thinking about posting about this, but it's kind of a tough subject. I probably wouldn't have had this thread not come up.
I had a dream last week that I was with my T. Everything was pretty innocent and then it wasn't. Things became sexual. As soon as I touched her and felt her wetness, a sense of peace washed over me. Not in a sexual way, but rather feeling welcomed and accepted. I woke up thinking, "What the heck?"
All I could picture was her vagina. So the way my mind works, I immediately wanted to go the opposite way. I pictured a penis and my first reaction was fear. I was afraid. Perhaps this is why I haven't had sex with my husband in three months.
I've talked to my T about this (being glad we're only doing phone sessions at this time), and she was wonderful about it as usual. She goes off the theory that we are every part of our dreams, so basically according to her, I was just telling myself that I'm okay.
Now this matter about the penis is another entirely. She's given me a homework assignment in which I write out all the reasons why I'm feeling resentment toward my husband. I've started it, but I don't think I'm done with it yet. I'm not sure I could ever make it complete. There's some real intense things going on there.
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 16:34:19
In reply to Re: Klonopin and nap later » Dinah, posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 14:44:56
Dang, you're good. Are you a therapist by any chance?
I think I'll print your posts out to bring to him to add more words to the conversation, which is currently quite frustrating.
We've talked about some of those things before. It's the thing I refer to as the thing I wrote on the yellow post it note (and let him keep to refresh his memory). But he says I talk about it in a very roundabout way that makes it difficult for him to understand.
But you did!
Sigh.
Posted by Tamar on May 2, 2005, at 17:25:37
In reply to Re: Klonopin and nap later » Tamar, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 16:34:19
> Dang, you're good. Are you a therapist by any chance?
ROFL! No, I couldn’t be a therapist. I’d never be able to handle negative transference; I’d feel deskilled the whole time.
> I think I'll print your posts out to bring to him to add more words to the conversation, which is currently quite frustrating.
Hope it helps.
> We've talked about some of those things before. It's the thing I refer to as the thing I wrote on the yellow post it note (and let him keep to refresh his memory). But he says I talk about it in a very roundabout way that makes it difficult for him to understand.
Well, it’s very difficult to be direct about these things!
> But you did!
Well, just because it sounded like some of the feelings I have about myself. Sometimes I think I’m stuck in an immature stage of sexual development. For example, I can touch myself, but I tend to find it difficult to let my husband touch me: I feel like a kid whose interest in her own body is natural but who would feel violated if touched by someone else. Sometimes I think I’m not ready for sex with a partner, like a pubescent virgin (despite having had children; go figure). It’s almost like one of these body dysmorphic things: it feels as if my sexually adult body doesn’t quite belong to me.
I don’t know if any of that applies to you, but I hope your therapist gets a handle on it pronto!
T.
Posted by TofuEmmy on May 2, 2005, at 17:34:26
In reply to Re: TRIGGER, this is. Perhaps. For some. » Susan47, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 14:03:01
Dinah - This is actually something I had been thinking about lately. When I was a kid, I received some little booklet about the body changes we girls were about to experience. The booklet spoke of breasts and new hair. That's it. And, as you said - there are other changes. When my... "flower", um...bloomed?...well, I was mortified. I thought somehow it had been damaged and I was permanently deformed.
I don't know if today those little booklets say anything about this change, but they sure as shooting ought to!
And perhaps, if your T has never had a daughter - he is simply not aware of this? Maybe he thinks the stuff grown women have is the same on little girls...just littler? I'll bet a lot of men don't know about this wee secret flowering.
em
Posted by fallsfall on May 2, 2005, at 18:17:43
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
This sounds like important stuff, Dinah. Good for you for tackling it.
What would it mean to you if you DID have "that"?
What are the advantages to you of not having that?
What are the disadvantages to you of not having that?
I think that the facts about your anatomy are not particularly important. What is important is how you feel about what you consider to be "normal" female anatomy, and how you feel about your anatomy.
What do you see as the purposes of the female anatomy?
How does what you see as your anatomy differ as far as those purposes go?
If you could magically change your anatomy to be "normal", would you? Why?
Don't give up yet. This is a complex issue for you. It is hard for you to explain and understand and it will be hard for him to understand, too.
Just try to get him to see things more symbolically. I think that is where the issues are. It may take a while to figure out what this all means to you, but based on what I have seen you say about yourself, I think it is important. So don't give up!!!
I'll get my p*m-p*ms if it would help.
Posted by thewrite1 on May 2, 2005, at 18:33:09
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
I wanted to reply to this earlier and I got sidetracked with a 14-month-old.
That said, it's my opinion that you should keep trying to get this across to your T or if you just don't think that's possible, find a sex therapist. Maybe it would be easier to say over the phone so his eyes aren't on you? That's easier for me sometimes.
In any case, I hope you can find a way to communicate this to someone. It seems to be really important to you. Good luck.
Posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 18:35:08
In reply to Re: Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on May 2, 2005, at 18:17:43
I've printed out a bunch of posts. Maybe they can help us find the words together.
And Falls, I think you're right. I think this may be a core issue.
Trouble is that I don't want to "fix" it if fixing it means believing I have normal woman anatomy. I don't think I could bear that.
But I would like him to understand. I'd like it not to be such a powerful secret.
Posted by fallsfall on May 2, 2005, at 21:28:10
In reply to Y'all are great at making me feel less weird., posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 18:35:08
Perhaps you can resolve the issue that makes having normal woman anatomy unbearable. I know it is hard to imagine feeling that way, but if you *could* feel accepting of whatever anatomy you have, I think that a lot of your internal conflict would lessen.
I am working on a deep internal conflict right now, too. I see the symptoms, and we've talked about the symptoms for maybe 6(?) sessions. I want him to just tell me what to do, but that isn't the issue. We need to figure out why I feel the way I do, and why it is such a conflict for me. Somehow saying "the rest of the world gets along just fine with this conflict so you should, too" doesn't help at all. For ME this conflict is very important, so *I* have to figure out how to resolve this *for me*. No, I have no idea how we go about doing this. If I figure that out, I'll let you know. All I know is that resolving the issue that I'm living right now is not the point. The point is that there is an internal conflict that I need to resolve.
You have one, too.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:21:14
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
Dinah, I've been working the past two days, not at home today, so I'm just seeing your post now.
What strikes me is that no matter what your genitalia looks like, it's yours. There are lots of different versions. If you've seen a gynecologist, and you have some kind of "abnormality", give him/her a call and have him send your T a letter. Chances are they'll have a common parlance.
Those words, labia major and minor, clitoris, etc. make me uncomfortable, too. I feel ... embarrassed by them. They are words for private parts of me. I want to keep those parts private, I don't want to talk about them. I used to think they were nice to look at - my own,that is, but now I think they aren't.
Ok, this is humour: you could go out and get a porno mag, cut out a photo of a woman's crotch,, label the parts A, B, C, etc. and use it as a guide for him! LOL
Sorry, I am silly-tired.
I think your T really does want to understand.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 1:30:48
In reply to Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by Dinah on May 2, 2005, at 12:19:12
Dinah,
Hopefully he will be able to move from reality testing and getting caught up in the possible physical implications of what you are trying to say. The questions others have posted seem much better geared towards helping you talk about, and they seem to be closer to what your issue is, I assume.I hope you can help him get there to help you.
You are very brave.
gg
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 8:05:55
In reply to Re: Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something » Dinah, posted by Shortelise on May 2, 2005, at 23:21:14
It's nothing a gynecologist would be interested in, except as a way to help my therapist in reality testing me.
I can't look at those pictures. I'm reasonably sure that what I see isn't what's there. Since it would be anatomically impossible.
What I see more closely resembles a sea monster from an old Grade B moster film. I'm afraid of being sucked in and get all dizzy.
And in general I have no problem with porn. I'm just liberal with the use of the fast forward button.
Incidentally I hope Dr. Bob doesn't find this uncivil. I'm obviously not saying that any females on this board resemble a sea monster...
Posted by Dinah on May 3, 2005, at 8:08:02
In reply to Re: Oh my head. SEXUAL TRIGGER or something, posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 1:30:48
I hope he gravitates away from the physical into the symbolic.
I just need him to understand the anatomical differences so he doesn't get hung up on that. I wonder if there's any way he can brush up on his anatomy without getting arrested.
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