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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 10:55:40
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by frida on April 28, 2005, at 7:06:40
Frida,
I'm glad you pposted. Thanks for the support.
I know what you mean about the comfort "after" that you didn't get as a child. It is very powerful to tell a specific story, with lots of details, and then sit with the tears, feeling your therapist very near you, holding you emotionally. It is very healing. Mine gives me permission to cry long and hard because he knows this was so forbidden. And he knows that silence can feel threatening to me so he will just keep talking low and soft, telling me the rules are different here and that it needs to come out.
It is hard to tell the stories. But knowing you aren't alone as you relive it is so important. I hope you can do that for yourself.
Keep posting. It is nice to see so many new faces here.
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 11:00:45
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 28, 2005, at 8:13:11
I agree with you that sometimes a fantasy is just a fantasy. And I think there are a few that I wouldn't tell -- there is no need to tell.
I think the reason we talked about this one is that I was feeling really sad about the limitations of his support, like it wasn't "real" during a crisis like this because he couldn't physical come to the hospital with me, or stop by the house. He reminded me that I could carry him with me, and that I *did* have my phone, which is where he "lives" between sessions. :)
He asked the flip side of this question too: Have you ever fantasized about rescuing me? That was hard to answer...
Posted by Daisym on April 28, 2005, at 11:01:54
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » Miss Honeychurch, posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 8:51:56
I've said it before, but Dinah, you need to run a training program for therapists. It could be called,
"Everything your patients want you to know and more..."
Posted by Shortelise on April 28, 2005, at 11:53:01
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
This is so lovely, Daisy. That you said these things, that he responded as he did, that you felt ok about it.
ShortE
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
I used to have lots of rescue fantasies about my T. In some of my fantasies my T would accompany me through future crises; in other fantasies he would intervene in the past. I was quite ashamed of (and sometimes frightened by) these fantasies and didn’t want to talk about them. In fact, I kept trying to deny them whenever they entered my head, and that denial just made things even harder for me and caused me new problems. Oh yes, and I definitely had fantasies about rescuing him too.
Eventually I realised that denying my fantasies was effectively denying all kinds of powerful feelings. Being able to fantasise, and to explore what my fantasies meant, helped me to integrate my hopes and fears with reality.
I don’t think there’s any point in trying to impose reality when you want fantasy. Allow yourself the fantasy when you need it. Later, you can think about what it all means. I think they do need to be explored, though, if you want to move forward.
Eventually these fantasies should dissipate, but probably not if they’re not allowed some expression.
It sounds as if your T is very sympathetic to your need for fantasy. I’m sure you can trust him with all your fantasies.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
Hi Daisy,
Just wanted to give you a huge huge hug, and wanted to tell you that I am always so amazed at you and your T.
Both of you are so fantastic. By reading through your stories, I sometimes get what I have been missing since leaving my ex T. It helps me with a powerful satisfaction even though I am no where part of this. I am so glad your T is so understand and helpful.
Posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
Yes I have a rescue fantasy, and I have always been quite embarassed of it. In my fantasy I am hurting as uch on the outside as I am on the inside, he sees this and holds me and takes care of me until I am in the hospital or something. There he stays with me until I am better, both inside and out... it is so wierd, so crossing of boundaries, I am so sensitive to his boudnaries, perhaps that is why the fantasy exists...hmmm.
Thanks for the thread
rachel
Posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
In reply to Always Amazed » daisym, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
when the fantasies are of the patient rescuing the therapist?
It's easier for me to understand it the other way around.
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 15:06:43
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Not sure if this post is addressed to me - but in case it is, I think fantasies go both ways.. of being rescued and of rescuing. I think it caters to different parts of our personality. I have felt often quite at the same time, of being rescued by the same person and of trying to rescue that same exact person at the same exact time. I don't know how to make sense out of it too much - just that it exists.
Posted by Dinah on April 28, 2005, at 15:39:42
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
It's kind of sad for me to realize that I no more fantasize in this area than any other since I lost my ability to do it.
Any thoughts I have of therapy are more images than fantasies. Curling up like a kitten on my therapist's lap, blind pup and milky mother, head on therapist's knee, arms reached up like a toddler to be picked up and comforted. No scenarios or even thoughts seem to come with them.
Posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Well, I said that I have fantasies of rescuing my T, so I can explain what it means for me.
For me, fantasies about rescuing my T have a number of different facets. In one respect, it’s a way of imagining rescuing myself. I have imagined my T in scenarios that are similar to my own past traumas. My fantasy of rescuing him indicated to me that I wished I could have found my own way out. Also, my fantasies were an expression of my desire to imagine that my T knew exactly what I was going through. And moreover, my fantasies allowed me to imagine that I was as important to him as he was to me: my rescuing him restored the emotional balance between us (but only in fantasy of course). Does that make sense?
I needed to work through these thoughts and feelings – and even though I’m no longer in therapy, I’m still working through it.
Tamar
Posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
I have felt the exact same thing.
> Also, my fantasies were an expression of my desire to imagine that my T knew exactly what I was going through.
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:43:29
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Shortelise on April 28, 2005, at 11:53:01
I'm sure you would have put it much more eloquently than I did -- I sort of blundered my way through it. But I'm glad he got it anyway.
It is worth the effort to be honest, at least most of the time.
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:45:44
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 12:12:32
Sounds like you had a good therapist. It is true that things that are hard to talk about are probably what we should be talking about. I'm glad you found sharing your fantasies to be helpful. I think I'm a ways away from getting it all worked out, but I sure would like to hurry things up!
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:48:43
In reply to Always Amazed » daisym, posted by pinkeye on April 28, 2005, at 12:51:49
Thanks for the hugs! (I need them this week.)
I'm glad you get something from my long-winded posts. I do tend to ramble on; I think I'm capturing for myself as much as anyone else what happened. I'm never sure if I'm doing it all right, you know? I blurt sometimes and then wonder if that was OK. Othertimes I can't get the words out!
I think we should at least burn calories while doing this hard work, don't you?
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:52:54
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
Rachel,
Do you think having the fantasy is crossing his boundaries? Or is it in the fantasy that you actually cross the boundary?
I think this is something we worry about, crossing that invisible line. But I read over and over again that it is up to the therapist to hold the boundaries and as clients we are "allowed" to push things a little -- it says a lot about our needs. I know not all therapists respond well to this.
Have you ever told your therapist about your fantasy?
Posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 1:53:57
In reply to Re: What does it mean ..., posted by annierose on April 28, 2005, at 14:38:22
Annie,
I think someone said it, but for me rescuing my therapist would mean he needs me for something and things would be more balanced. For some people, it is also about proving that your aren't just this weepy mess that shows up in his office each week.
And if I rescue him from something awful, he will be eternally grateful and not be able to deny a personal relations ship later.
Posted by happyflower on April 29, 2005, at 5:54:05
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by rubenstein on April 28, 2005, at 12:53:58
I know this might be a little off topic, but funny I think. One day during a session, my T said that he doesn't touch or hug his patients, even if they go into a seizure or something, he said he would call 911. Well I said if you have a heart attack or something would you want me to save you ( I know CPR and first aid) or let you die until help arrives. Well I think he totally was caught off guard with my question ( I enjoy doing this for some reason, maybe that why he calls me challangeing, lol) because he said well you can do mouth to mouth, but you can't kiss me. He was so embarrrest, I dropped the conversation there, but it was funny to get that reaction from him. HEEHEE!
Posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 7:03:44
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by Tamar on April 28, 2005, at 15:59:32
Yes, that makes perfect sense. Thanks.
My T fantasy is neither type or sexual. Not sure what it means, I'll try to gather the courage to post about it.
Posted by annierose on April 29, 2005, at 7:09:06
In reply to Re: What does it mean ... » annierose, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 1:53:57
LOL - That makes perfect sense too. For the T to feel indebted to you. Yes, I like that thought too.
On a similar note (not sure if I'm repeating myself) but when I saw this T 20 years ago, during one session, firemen burst into her office.
I had smelled smoke as I walked in and she dismissed it (long story). I liked that the incident happened with me because I knew she would always remember that story. And she does. Her new office, has a different door situation so that would not happen again.
Posted by Shortelise on April 29, 2005, at 12:16:10
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » Shortelise, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:43:29
Oh, Daisy, are you kidding??? I would have sobbed the whole time, which has kept me from saying some things in therapy - it feels like the gates of my grief will dissolve if I do.
ShortE
Posted by antigua on April 29, 2005, at 15:54:57
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » daisym, posted by frida on April 28, 2005, at 7:06:40
That was such an amazing post. You write so well. I don't remember wishing my mother would come in and comfort me after the csa (but I should think about it), but when I think of it now, I try to comfort my hurt little girl in the exact same way. I think of giving her a warm bath, making her clean, with nice clean pajamas and sheets, and put her back to bed and don't leave her until she's asleep. This is what I do(did) when my own children were sick, but I try to do it for myself because I know how terribly alone I really felt.
My T is female. I am resisting the idea of getting comfort from her rather than providing it to myself by myself. I feel less vulnerable that way.
Welcome. Thank you for your post,
antigua
Posted by rubenstein on April 29, 2005, at 18:09:27
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy » rubenstein, posted by daisym on April 29, 2005, at 0:52:54
> Rachel,
>
> Do you think having the fantasy is crossing his boundaries? Or is it in the fantasy that you actually cross the boundary?I am not sure...I do think that it is okay to have the fantasy but I think the root of the fantasy is about crossing boundaries, perhaps being special or somethin..hmm...
>
> I think this is something we worry about, crossing that invisible line. But I read over and over again that it is up to the therapist to hold the boundaries and as clients we are "allowed" to push things a little -- it says a lot about our needs. I know not all therapists respond well to this.
>
> Have you ever told your therapist about your fantasy?No, and I doubt that I will, I miss him right now, I just came out of a crisis and saw him very frequently...Thursday seems so far away...I hate feeling like this
Thanks for the questions DaisyM
They made me think about some things I needed to think about
rachel
Posted by littleone on May 2, 2005, at 22:04:01
In reply to Rescue Fantasy, posted by daisym on April 28, 2005, at 1:27:30
Sometimes I think my whole world revolves around my rescue fantasies. I have fantasies of being rescued AND I have fantasies of rescuing my T.
Re me being rescued, this came up just the other day for me. I had had a bad spell and my T had been talking about trying to figure out what triggered it. He named some of the things that had happened around the time it kicked in and I went away and thought about it.
I realised that I didn't like a writing assignment that he gave me. It really set me off, so of course I didn't do it and totally avoided the whole subject. Then at my next session, he could tell I was feeling bad and he happened to give me a writing assignment about something else. Once again, it set me off really badly and I avoided it all again. Then at my last session, the same thing happened again, and by then I was ready to do a runner.
I hated him so much for making me do these impossible assignments. I didn't know the "right" answer. The assignments had lots of "correct" answers, but I had no way of knowing which of these "correct" answers was the "right" answer. The one he wanted.
I want him to hold my hand and walk through the exercise with me. Not to leave me alone with it. In fact, I literally wish I could just sit on the floor at his feet and cling to his leg like Linus and his blanket and have him tell me what to do and how to do it and then have him do it with me.
Then I kind of got a feeling that this was all familiar. I don't have a specific memory, but I'm pretty sure my dad would try to teach me something or talk to me about something. And he'd ask me a question where he'd want a particular answer to maybe lead the conversation somewhere. And I'd be giving him correct answers to his question, but it wouldn't be the "right" answer that he wanted. And he'd get all angry with me and things would turn bad.
So yes, it was a rescue fantasy, but it's a completely different issue underneath. Was definately worth looking closely at.
re rescuing my T, there are two parts of this for me. The first is how much he works. His workday is so so long and he has commitments on the weekends that tie him up and I stress out big time that he doesn't have enough time for his family and for himself. I wish I could fix it up for him and make him listen to me and make him ease up a bit.
But my dad was a workaholic and was tied up with sporting club commitments and didn't have time for his family and it eventually destroyed his marriage. So it's pretty obvious why this upsets me. I don't think I've even raised it with my T yet. It's too upsetting for me. I just secretly wish I could rescue him.
My second rescuing my T fantasy is different. I do a type of self defence and often dream that my T gets robbed whilst we're in session or he gets kidnapped by a bad man and I need to rescue him. And I use my self defence to disarm the bad guy and then disable him.
I talked about this with my T just the other day and he thinks it's all about the same sort of reasons that little kids dream about being superheros. Because superheros are good. They are strong. They are smart. People look up to them. People respect them. People love them. That sort of thing.
Which I kind of found a little funny considering I never once dreamt I was a superhero when I was younger. But my T made it sound like it was a normal thing. Did you guys ever dream you were superheros?
Posted by gardenergirl on May 3, 2005, at 0:06:17
In reply to Re: Rescue Fantasy, posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 28, 2005, at 8:13:11
> I fantasize all the time of being in the hospital and my T coming to see me and holding my hand. And not charging me!!!!
Hi Miss Honey,
I haven't had this fantasy about my T, but I have had it a lot about other important people in my life. I suppose it's because my mother is an nurse, and everything was health and medical related when I was a kid. Still kind of is, actually. Being sick gets you attention, which equals caring in my family.And when I actually was in the hospital a few times as a kid, these were the days when visiting was very limited. So I probably felt uncared for and abandoned.
I'm surprised, frankly, that I haven't had this fantasy about my T. But then I haven't had it much at all lately. I wonder what that means.
Nice to see you here.
gg
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