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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
Well, to be honest, feeling disconnected from everything. Foggy and apathetic. But I don't feel bad, and I can get my work done. Suggested to my therapist that we reduce the appointment frequency because I just couldn't think of anything to say. Monday we just chit chatted. We could go back to twice a week if I need it later. He said that for someone who felt ok, I looked awful. Very depressed. And maybe he's right. But not depressed in a way that feels awful or interferes with my work.
Anyway, he says that he can think of something to talk about even if I'm at a loss. Because he thinks something is wrong, he doesn't understand what, and he'd like to get to the bottom of it.
But the last two sessions have felt very unsatisfying. Maybe even more than when we get angry. Because I felt totally disconnected. It felt like a total waste of time and money. And it felt bad somehow. Maybe even more bad than when we're angry. I like to feel connected.
What do you guys think? Am I just not needing him right now, or is he right and we need to find out what's going on?
Posted by Penny on September 19, 2003, at 13:14:46
In reply to Feeling disconnected from my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
Maybe you just need a bit of a break. Or maybe there is something wrong ... but if there is and it's not really a 'problem' for you right now, maybe you should just let it be until something stirs inside of you that clues you in to what it is.
Sometimes I feel like my sessions are productive, and other times (like this week) I feel like they're really not - like I'm just sitting there and if I am talking, it's about nothing at all, because I can't really summon any emotion about anything.
Have you had a recent med change? Or are you sick (like with a cold or something)? Either of those could make you feel more flat, which could lead to feeling disconnected.
P
Posted by HannahW on September 19, 2003, at 17:29:13
In reply to Feeling disconnected from my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
If you were only feeling disconnected from your therapist and couldn't think of anything to say, I would suggest taking a break. But since you're feeling disconnected from everything, that's more concerning. Depression doesn't have to feel sad. Any idea what might be making you depressed? Do you feel lonely?
Hannah
Posted by fallsfall on September 19, 2003, at 18:14:54
In reply to Feeling disconnected from my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
>>feeling disconnected from everything. Foggy and apathetic.
That doesn't sound very "good" to me. It sounds kind of anesthetized. People tell me there is more to life than that. Being able to work doesn't mean that you aren't depressed. Are you also feeling numb to your husband and son?
Feeling connected is important. He should be able to help you figure out why you feel unconnected.
I think that you should take him up on his offer to help you figure out what is going on. You deserve more than disconnected, foggy and apathetic.
Posted by ridesredhorses on September 19, 2003, at 19:49:09
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on September 19, 2003, at 18:14:54
Ditto to what fallsfall said.
Red
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 19, 2003, at 21:38:34
In reply to Feeling disconnected from my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
Dinah,
Feeling disconnected does sound like something to talk about. Have you mentioned this point specifically to your therapist? How do you experience the disconnection? Do people, though you know them seem strangely unfamiliar?
It sounds important, and it sounds like an interesting thing to discuss with your therapist.
Dee.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2003, at 0:05:28
In reply to Feeling disconnected from my therapist, posted by Dinah on September 19, 2003, at 12:01:56
Hi Dinah.. I, also have gone through periods of feeling detached from my analyst. From what I have learned, I have a form of DID- not multiple personalities, or any time unaccounted for, but inside me there is a very lonely, angry, distrustful little girl, which I try very hard to keep hidden. When the better-functioning part of me is relating to my therapist, the connection is there, and I feel that we work together in ways which are meaningful and helpful, and even fun!. But when that other self-state- the very wary and distrustful - and damaged- little girl is more predominant, I begin to feel that I don't want to even engage in therapy at all, that I don't know whether I trust or even like the same therapist that I was feeling so thrilled to have when my better-functioning self-state was the one relating to him.
I find these times the most difficult- it's hard to keep going or to feel any hope.. But my analyst wants that distrustful part to find a way to relate to him also- he feels that is what we really need to do together. So far, I have only gone a little way with it; for one thing, I feel that part is cold, dismissive, hateful and very unlovable, and I am certain that he will hate it if I show it to him fully. However, he says bringing in that part, and slowly finding that it is accepted, is the most important thing I can do.
Frankly, I am really struggling with this, and don't feel I have been able to do it, yet. In times like this, it is so much easier and safer for me to feel detached. I'm just mentioning it in the chance that something similiar may be happening between you and your therapist. Do you think it could be?
I should just ask in passing- do you think the Glucophage has a depressant effect? I'm not taking that, but last year I did discover that hormones had a huge effect on my mood. I need to take Cytomel along with synthroid ( my thyroid has been underactive for a long time, but the AD effect of tiny twice-daily doses of Cytomel was very noticeable. And, although now no-one is supposed to take HRT for extended periods, I do take a natural estrogen and progesterone twice a week- in low doses- because the depression really does intensify if I go any lower. I'm just running through these things because they have helped me- they may not have any relevance for you.
The only thing I can say to you is what I always forget to say to myself- that these detached feelings are only a part of the total relationship that you have with your therapist. They are only feelings, and they will change. But bringing them into the relationship, while very hard and painful to do, would be much better, and actually offers a lot of promise in terms of feeling more whole and confident in the long run.Love to know what you think of all this- I know you feel free to disagree and always have other points of view that I haven't thought of.
Pfinstegg
Posted by kyp on September 20, 2003, at 9:42:40
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2003, at 0:05:28
Posted by judy1 on September 20, 2003, at 11:27:48
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2003, at 0:05:28
You and I share a very similar trait (an angry little girl) and have very similar interactions with our therapists. I also try to hide 'her' and the only way I can do that is to detach- or more accurately dissociate. This is a huge part of why I cancel appts. with my therp, I'm simply not ready to deal with it. Even my shrink (who does therapy) recognizes it, but his approach is more hands off until I'm ready, because he's watched me run away too often. I think Dinah has something similar, and hope with her strong bond with her therp she's able to actually deal with it. (sorry for writing in the second person, Dinah).
take care, judy
Posted by Adia on September 20, 2003, at 12:12:51
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by HannahW on September 19, 2003, at 17:29:13
Hi Dinah,
I have read what the others have shared, especially what Pfinstegg said..I too think that maybe you should try to explore with your therapist what you are feeling...
If you are feeling disconnected from everything, I wouldn't think that taking a break from him would help...maybe you can work through this together..it feels he's so willing to try to help you and find out why you're feeling this way..
Just wanted to send you my support,
Adia.
Posted by Adia on September 20, 2003, at 12:27:38
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2003, at 0:05:28
Hi Pfinstegg,
I wanted to thank you for your post and say it has helped me...
I too have a damaged, distrustful little girl who pushes my therapist away when I need her so much..
It is like a constant battle inside of me...My therapist says it is okay to show her all parts of me..that she accepts all of me but it's so hard and painful.
Thank you for sharing...I am glad you are able to share these feelings with your therapist.
Adia.> Hi Dinah.. I, also have gone through periods of feeling detached from my analyst. From what I have learned, I have a form of DID- not multiple personalities, or any time unaccounted for, but inside me there is a very lonely, angry, distrustful little girl, which I try very hard to keep hidden. When the better-functioning part of me is relating to my therapist, the connection is there, and I feel that we work together in ways which are meaningful and helpful, and even fun!. But when that other self-state- the very wary and distrustful - and damaged- little girl is more predominant, I begin to feel that I don't want to even engage in therapy at all, that I don't know whether I trust or even like the same therapist that I was feeling so thrilled to have when my better-functioning self-state was the one relating to him.
>
> I find these times the most difficult- it's hard to keep going or to feel any hope.. But my analyst wants that distrustful part to find a way to relate to him also- he feels that is what we really need to do together. So far, I have only gone a little way with it; for one thing, I feel that part is cold, dismissive, hateful and very unlovable, and I am certain that he will hate it if I show it to him fully. However, he says bringing in that part, and slowly finding that it is accepted, is the most important thing I can do.
>
> Frankly, I am really struggling with this, and don't feel I have been able to do it, yet. In times like this, it is so much easier and safer for me to feel detached. I'm just mentioning it in the chance that something similiar may be happening between you and your therapist. Do you think it could be?
>
> I should just ask in passing- do you think the Glucophage has a depressant effect? I'm not taking that, but last year I did discover that hormones had a huge effect on my mood. I need to take Cytomel along with synthroid ( my thyroid has been underactive for a long time, but the AD effect of tiny twice-daily doses of Cytomel was very noticeable. And, although now no-one is supposed to take HRT for extended periods, I do take a natural estrogen and progesterone twice a week- in low doses- because the depression really does intensify if I go any lower. I'm just running through these things because they have helped me- they may not have any relevance for you.
>
>
> The only thing I can say to you is what I always forget to say to myself- that these detached feelings are only a part of the total relationship that you have with your therapist. They are only feelings, and they will change. But bringing them into the relationship, while very hard and painful to do, would be much better, and actually offers a lot of promise in terms of feeling more whole and confident in the long run.
>
> Love to know what you think of all this- I know you feel free to disagree and always have other points of view that I haven't thought of.
>
> Pfinstegg
Posted by Dinah on September 20, 2003, at 19:51:47
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected from my therapist » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 20, 2003, at 0:05:28
> Hi Dinah.. I, also have gone through periods of feeling detached from my analyst. From what I have learned, I have a form of DID- not multiple personalities, or any time unaccounted for, but inside me there is a very lonely, angry, distrustful little girl, which I try very hard to keep hidden. When the better-functioning part of me is relating to my therapist, the connection is there, and I feel that we work together in ways which are meaningful and helpful, and even fun!. But when that other self-state- the very wary and distrustful - and damaged- little girl is more predominant, I begin to feel that I don't want to even engage in therapy at all, that I don't know whether I trust or even like the same therapist that I was feeling so thrilled to have when my better-functioning self-state was the one relating to him.
>
I have a similar internal dynamic, but the emotional, young part of me is what is intensely bonded to my therapist, and trusts him completely. And the mature more rational self that I show the world is vaguely bewildered by what on earth I'm doing there and how talking can help. And horrified by the time and expense. :)I do think I may be in a vaguely dissociative fog, but it's a nice soft comfortable fog. And I'm doing ok in functioning. So, since I'm not getting a lot from therapy right now, I figure maybe I just ought to wait until I need it again.
Or maybe that's just the sensible thought. Maybe the less sensible thought is that it hurts to see someone I'm usually attached to and not feel any of the usual connection. It makes me feel kind of lonely.
But on the other other hand, Lonely's post about the death of a therapist actually made me feel something for the first time since I shut down. So maybe I will have something to talk about if it lasts. I'll give it at least another week and see what happens.
I have found myself strangely reluctant to think about this too closely....
Pfinstegg, it sounds as if we face some of the same challenges in therapy. I would really enjoy exchanging experiences. If you ever feel like emailing me, my email address is in the FAQ's of this site.
Thanks everyone. I'm going to let your thoughts seep in as I'm ready to consider things a bit more.
Posted by allisonf on September 21, 2003, at 22:04:26
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected Pfinstegg, Judy, and all, posted by Dinah on September 20, 2003, at 19:51:47
Hi Dinah,
I hope you're feeling better soon from whatever it is that's been troubling you. Maybe it is the kind of thing that needs to brew a little more before discussing it with your therapist. But my tendency is to err on the side of sticking with the therapy. The part about him not reacting to your diconnectedness the way you hoped he would, I definitely think is a good topic for your next session. I know you have a solid working relationship with your therapist and I am guessing there is a good reason for his behavior (or lack thereof)--even if that reason is just that he has been a little distracted lately. I think it would help to know what's going on with him. It seems like you are needing him a little more than you are needing to be distant from him. Or am I off base?
Plse know you are in my thoughts--
Allison
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 21, 2003, at 22:06:31
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected Pfinstegg, Judy, and all, posted by Dinah on September 20, 2003, at 19:51:47
Hi Dinah.. I have to agree that feeling detached, more or less without intending to be, and without knowing why it has happened, is a very uncomfortable state to be in. I thought that your therapist gave a wonderful response- that he has enough to say for both of you for now. Why not let him do that- just allow yourself to be quiet and just as you are really feeling. He obviously wants very much to help you through this period, and sounds confident that he'll be able to do so. I would rather be ANYTHING than detached, but my therapist seems to feel that working through those hard times is more important than having a talkative, emotional me communicating easily, even though from my point of view I infinitely prefer the latter- but then that's the part that isn't sick!. Having had a very emotionally expressive week, just past, the thing I remember most about it is that he said "you seem to want to just keep talking like this, as fast as you can, so the other parts- (the ones I described in a post above)- can remain hidden". When he said that I knew it was true right away. It certainly made me stop and think how much I was avoiding the parts of me that I didn't want him to see. Well, I'll let you know whether I have had the guts to take him up on his suggestion this week! Probably only partially at best.
I'd be sad to learn that you cut down on your times now (unless you absolutely have to for financial reasons). I've read enough of your posts about your therapist to feel that you have a rich and growing relationship with him which has meant the world to you. Now you can allow yourself to be detached, unloving, indifferent, silent- he will still be there for you. Let him be.
Pfinstegg
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 21, 2003, at 22:31:23
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected Pfinstegg, Judy, and all » Dinah, posted by Pfinstegg on September 21, 2003, at 22:06:31
Hi again,
I agree with Pfinstegg, et. al. that cutting back on therapy right now maybe isn't the best thing to do for you. There have been many times in therapy, when sitting there, unable to think of anything to say, and then my T brings up something that I hadn't thought about for some time, or perhaps something completely out of the blue (so I thought), that has a tremendous impact on my life.
I think also, that she can see a great deal of what is going on in my life by the way I handle a bit of silence. Trust in your T. It seems that He knows you fairly well. You are fortunate to have a good relationship with him. I had to go through some fairly bad therapists before I got to where I am. One actually called me while I was in the hospital to tell me that she was leaving the organization where I saw her. She didn't even help me find another.
You have a great deal of wisdom; I've seen it here. I'm certain that you'll make the best decision you can, the one that is right for you.
Good luck,
Dee.
Posted by Poet on September 22, 2003, at 9:47:49
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected Pfinstegg, Judy, and all, posted by deirdrehbrt on September 21, 2003, at 22:31:23
Hi Dinah,
I agree with what everybody else has said- stick with therapy. Inside of me is a girl I call "the Punk" who does not cooperate with anyone trying to help her. When I am confronted with something in therapy I absolutely do not ever want to talk about the Punk comes out.
I, too, think I am out of things to say, but really I am out of things I want to say. Your therapist seems to understand that you have more you need to talk about, and he isn't going to push you, but will take it slow. Going slow is frustrating, but not traumatizing.
Hang in there.
Poet
Posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:37:58
In reply to Re: Feeling disconnected Pfinstegg, Judy, and all, posted by Poet on September 22, 2003, at 9:47:49
I've crashed bigtime. I guess I was just trying not to think. Now I'm going to work on not hurting myself while the waves of pain wash over me. The Klonopin should help. The fog really wasn't so bad.
Posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:48:12
In reply to Re: Not feeling disconnected, posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:37:58
That sounded more alarming than it is. I'm not going to hurt myself. I just have to withstand the urges for a bit. The Klonopin should help. And I called my therapist to remind me of my promise to him. So I'll be fine.
Posted by Poet on September 22, 2003, at 12:58:18
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:48:12
No apology is necessary. You called your therapist- that is a major step in getting reconnected.
Poet
Posted by allisonf on September 22, 2003, at 15:18:58
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:48:12
Hi Dinah,
Hope you have gotten in touch with your therapist by now. I am so sorry you're hurting right now, but it sounds like you are on the right course. Take care and be good to yourself today especially. And plse let everyone on this bd be here for you, the way you are always here for us.
Allison
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 22, 2003, at 16:15:16
In reply to Re: I'm sorry. » Dinah, posted by allisonf on September 22, 2003, at 15:18:58
Even though it's hurting an awful lot, I'm glad you had the strength to move beyond the indifferent mode to get in touch with the pain underneath- no-one wants to see anyone else suffer, and especially not you, Dinah, whom we feel we know and love. But now you have something very important and vital to work on with your therapist. It may be a part of you that finds it hard to put things into words, but getting in touch with feelings like you are having now is tremendously important- as you know. My rather chaotic experience with my analyst has been that the most painful times can turn out to be the most helpful (afterwards) as long as I stay close and trusting with him- or. sometimes ,just try to stay with him any way I can.
Thinking of you a lot this week,
Pfinstegg
Posted by HannahW on September 22, 2003, at 17:49:06
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:48:12
It's miserable to be miserable, and I feel for you. But I feel this is a good sign. You've broken through the apathy and can begin to sort out what lies beneath. That can only help in your long-term recovery. Try to think of your misery as an investment in your future happiness. You have to go through this before you can get to it. But that happiness is there, waiting for you! Don't let the muck of the past keep your feet from moving forward, even if it's just a little at a time.
Posted by Adia on September 22, 2003, at 18:56:12
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by HannahW on September 22, 2003, at 17:49:06
Dear Dinah,
I am sorry you are hurting inside..but I'm so glad you've been able to reach out to your therapist...
I do feel that even though it is scary to get in touch with your feelings, it is better to feel them rather than running away from them or denying them...and I am confident that your therapist will help you through this ..
I wanted to send you all my support and care, please let us know how you're doing...
It was so brave of you to reach out and ask for help to your therapist..
I am glad that he is with you and will help you through this..
I am sending you lots of support and healing,
Adia.> It's miserable to be miserable, and I feel for you. But I feel this is a good sign. You've broken through the apathy and can begin to sort out what lies beneath. That can only help in your long-term recovery. Try to think of your misery as an investment in your future happiness. You have to go through this before you can get to it. But that happiness is there, waiting for you! Don't let the muck of the past keep your feet from moving forward, even if it's just a little at a time.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on September 22, 2003, at 21:30:28
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by Dinah on September 22, 2003, at 12:48:12
Hi Dinah,
I'm so sorry that you are feeling this way. The pain can be so overwhelming at times. I know how hard the urge to hurt yourself can be, and I'm proud of you for being able to do it, and for knowing when you might need a little help.
I am begining to think that therapy might be something like learning a musical instrument. When I used to teach, I would tell my students that they would inevitably come to plateaus in their learning. They would feel as if they
weren't making any progress, lesson after lesson. I told them, and I believe that these are the times when we are making all that we have learned since the last plateau a part of us. We stay here for a time, and we integrate into our persons what is only intellectual right now.
Perhaps what we do in therapy is similar. We have our inevitable ups and downs, but if we look at the entire picture we are realy on our way up. It's like climbing a mountain too; very few mountains have trails which go upward without having to go back down some on the way to the top.
I suppose that we can get to feeling disconnected when we are trying to climb that mountain, but find ourselves going down on the journey. Maybe realizing that it's just a part of the trip can help.
I truly hope you are doing better.
Dee.
Posted by Dinah on September 23, 2003, at 20:29:53
In reply to Re: I'm sorry., posted by deirdrehbrt on September 22, 2003, at 21:30:28
Your support means a lot. I guess I'll post on grief about what's going on, but I'm just not handling things at all well. My only adequate defense mechanism is dissociation, and I'm employing it to excess, and causing some disruption in my life because of it. And the pain has started to break through periodically anyway. It just plain hurts. And I don't know what I'm going to do. My therapist wants me to quit dissociating and experience the pain, but I can't seem to do that.
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