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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by judy1 on September 6, 2003, at 13:55:18
In reply to I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again, posted by Eggy on September 5, 2003, at 23:10:15
It is SO tough to have a borderline personality- you can't stop yourself from pushing and pushing-always against the people you care most about. the only positive I can give you is you WILL grow out of it, I don't know your age is but there is a maturing out (I've done it myself). Since I have done what you did, the way I handled it was to find someone who specialized in borderline disorders, they tend to be more patient then other therapists. it took a while to find her, but she really did help me a great deal. what are your options under your insurance? can you afford to go private? If not, speak to whoever handles the mental health part of your insurance and get some names of people outside your ex-therps group. you don't want to have a 'difficult' label (been there too) so the best thing is to find someone who doesn't know your ex-therp and just explain things didn't work out. you will get through this, you're very fortunate to have a supportive spouse. try to mend things with your pdoc to have some continuity. take care, judy
Posted by fallsfall on September 6, 2003, at 18:28:51
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again, posted by Eggy on September 6, 2003, at 11:36:44
Judy's suggestion of finding a therapist who specializes in BPD is a good one. You may find that your insurance has a short list of "preferred providers", but would allow you to choose a different provider and pay 80%, while you pay 20%. That might expand your possibilities.
I am Borderline, too, it is very difficult. Have you heard of DBT? It is a kind of therapy (there are two books: "Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder" and "Skills Training Manual for Treating Borderline Personality Disorder" - they are written for therapists, but they have a lot of information about what it means to be Borderline, and how to deal with Borderline clients). It is probably the leading therapy for BPD. I did 6 months of the skills training group and I really thought that it was helpful. If you could find a DBT therapist or DBT Skills Training Group, I would definately recommend it.
I'm hoping that you are still taking your meds. If you stopped, please consider taking them again. I don't think that this would be a good time to add the stress of withdrawal and not having meds that you need to the stress that you have. Some of the meds have awful withdrawal symptoms.
You talked to your pdoc, and she said to talk to your therapist - that is pretty standard. But your pdoc didn't say that she wouldn't see you anymore, did she? You could call on Monday and reschedule some appointments with her. I left a therapist in the same group as my pdoc (across the hall from each other), and I still see my pdoc.
You said: He must not have cared at all because he knows what I could do to myself. He ditched me so I would go away. He doesn't care if I go away.
I know how you are feeling, but I think that he does care very much. Limits and boundaries are very hard for us Borderlines - VERY hard. But for us to make progress and get more under control, we have to learn to accept them. My guess is that your therapist is trying to help you learn that. It is a very hard lesson.
Please be sure if you are unsafe that you call your pdoc or go to the Emergency room.
There is another good board just for BPD that you might want to visit: http://pub69.ezboard.com/bashrisen40890
Please keep in touch
Posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 0:20:36
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 6, 2003, at 18:28:51
How do I find a therapist that specializes or even knows much about borderline? I am going to go to a day group starting this week. For two weeks. Might as well call it daycare. My husband will NOT leave me by myself. I go tomorrow at 5 to be assessed. Which means I will be alone all day because my kids have football games about 2 hours away and I won't be able to go or I will miss my appointment. It worries me to be alone because of the self injury stuff. I am trying so hard to be big and brave. And good. I am 34 but I feel like a kid! I'm not going back on my meds. Screw them. If I do I feel like I am giving in to the mind mess. I am Bi-polar too. What a great deal!! Why do I try so hard to overcome all of this? Is it worth it? I will though. Everytime I log on and see I have a reply I get a little more hope. Just knowing someone cares and understands. I really want to find a therapist who knows about BPD. I think that would help. I feel more hopeful but so sad. Depression sux doesn't it!
Posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again, posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 0:20:36
First, ask your pdoc for a referral to someone who has experience with BPD. Here are some sites where you can find lists of DBT/BPD therapists:
http://www.bpdcentral.com/resources/therapist/main.shtml
http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/bpdlist.htm
This one has a good summary of how to find a DBT Therapist. The link to search, however, isn't working, but you can type it in and it is fine - but I couldn't find a way to search for a therapist... http://tara4bpd.org/DBT.htm
National
Borderline Personality Disorder
Resource and Referral Center
1-888-4-TARA APD
Will give you names of DBT therapistshttp://www.mental-health-today.com/bpd/bpdlist.htm
When you have to be alone tomorrow, can you have a friend come to keep you company? Could you go to a mall and walk around? I find that it helps me if I go out where there are people.
I'm glad you are going to a day group. Hopefully it won't just be daycare, but you'll be able to learn something there and become stronger. I would certainly ask the people there if they know about DBT or BPD therapists in your area. They are the people most likely to know.
You said: I'm not going back on my meds. Screw them. If I do I feel like I am giving in to the mind mess.
I'm not quite understanding what you mean. It seems to me that if you don't go back on your meds that you are screwing YOU - not screwing them. The meds aren't helping or hurting them. Can you tell me what "the mind mess" is? The reason I'm concerned is that I have seen friends who were doing OK, but then stopped their meds and went down really quickly. I know that there are times when I think that if I really fall apart, that I'll get the help that I need. But I'm beginning to understand that I can get that help even if I don't fall apart. And then I don't have to claw my way back up from falling apart.
I'm glad that you are determined to make it. It is really, really hard. But there are people to help, and it sounds like your husband is pretty supportive.
Yes, Depression is the pits
Posted by justyourlaugh on September 7, 2003, at 9:00:31
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
eggy we have alot in common..
i am 34 with kids and..in a day program for 3 more weeks..
i wouldnt be able to go everyday with my medication..and i even have found myself laughing and making jokes..i had a woman ask about my scars..i handeled it beautifully..i am finding answers to my questions as well..
..
go in with a possitive attitude,,
have a little fun eggy..let go of the hurt for a bit..
j
Posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 20:26:44
In reply to Re: I ticked off T. He sais he will NEVER see me again » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 7:12:10
What I meant about the meds was...if I take them I am giving in to the fact that I am sick. I went to my assesment today. I am not sure when I get to start day group. Maybe not until next week. The lady I had to see was an hour late because she was with a suicide attempt in the ER. That made me realize I have to get well. Get better. I do not want to end up in room 13 with the other patient. The suicide room. I will not do that!
Posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 21:21:53
In reply to fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 7, 2003, at 20:26:44
I understand completely about not wanting to admit being sick by taking meds. But read your original post one more time. Can you see things in the post that are not particularly healthy behavior? If you want me to point some out for you I will (and if you have trouble finding more than a couple, please ask). These behaviors tell me (and you?) that you are sick. None of us want to be sick. But ignoring it doesn't make it go away. If you knew a diabetic who didn't take their insulin, would you think that they didn't have diabetes anymore? No, you would just worry about them because they would be getting sicker.
I don't want to have to worry about you. If you take your meds now, and go to your day group, and get hooked up with a therapist, and work really hard then you'll get better (I truly believe this). Once you are better, THEN you can decide if you need to continue the meds. In the meantime, not taking them makes it harder for you to get better.
Suicide is very scary. Unfortunately, suicide is something that us Borderlines do. We do that until we learn other ways to cope. You and I are at risk. I have had my best friends attempt suicide (and come dangerously close). I have sat next to their hospital beds worrying if they will make it. I am so glad that you don't want to follow that route. You (and I) have to work hard to avoid that. We need to take our meds, and go to therapy and work so, so hard.
I'm glad that you went for the assessment. That was a big step in taking care of yourself and getting on the road to being healthier. I hope your group starts soon.
There is no shame in being Borderline (though we do have a lousy reputation). YOU didn't do anything to get this way. Probably you are a little predisposed to it, and things happened while you were growing up that made it hard to learn effective ways of coping. But YOU will need to recover from it - noone can do that for you.
Please keep in touch
Posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
In reply to Am I sick? » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 7, 2003, at 21:21:53
I found a therapist. I had left a message on her answering machine Friday. I had forgot I did that but she just called and wants me to be there at 11. She said that maybe group wasn't a good thing right now after talking to me. But that she would and could help me. She has counseled Borderlines before. She says she even saw me 12 years ago when I was in a psych ward. I don't remember. But she did. I still miss my therapist. But I was really mad at him and was seriously considering harming him to get him to stay. I think it is a good thing for me to get away from him. I have never seen a female therapist. Never thought I would. I have always seen a male therapist because I have issues about my father and I thought a male therapist could help. I think it only hurt. I think I got attached. I feel somewhat hopeful now. Not so dead. I am going to be honest with her. Try to be anyway. I thought I was honest with michael but now I see I was hiding so many things that only hurt my therapy. I love you guys. You are holding me in there. But don't leave me yet. This new therapist might be a vampire!!
Posted by judy1 on September 8, 2003, at 9:47:20
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
That's wonderful!- especially the part that she has experience with treating borderlines. I can't tell you how critical that is in your recovery. Please let us know how things go today.
take care, judy
Posted by fallsfall on September 8, 2003, at 10:30:31
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
That is so wonderful! I'll be waiting to hear how your appointment goes. Honesty is so important (and sometimes it is so hard!).
There is sunshine, after all.
Posted by Adia on September 8, 2003, at 11:14:12
In reply to I have good news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 8:33:15
Hi Eggy,
That's so great! Let us know how it goes...I hope that you feel comfortable with her and can start building trust with her...
Honesty is the most important thing and yet it is so hard to open your heart and let someone close...
I hope it goes well today :o)
let us know..
lots of support,
Adia.> I found a therapist. I had left a message on her answering machine Friday. I had forgot I did that but she just called and wants me to be there at 11. She said that maybe group wasn't a good thing right now after talking to me. But that she would and could help me. She has counseled Borderlines before. She says she even saw me 12 years ago when I was in a psych ward. I don't remember. But she did. I still miss my therapist. But I was really mad at him and was seriously considering harming him to get him to stay. I think it is a good thing for me to get away from him. I have never seen a female therapist. Never thought I would. I have always seen a male therapist because I have issues about my father and I thought a male therapist could help. I think it only hurt. I think I got attached. I feel somewhat hopeful now. Not so dead. I am going to be honest with her. Try to be anyway. I thought I was honest with michael but now I see I was hiding so many things that only hurt my therapy. I love you guys. You are holding me in there. But don't leave me yet. This new therapist might be a vampire!!
Posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
In reply to Re: I have good news » Eggy, posted by Adia on September 8, 2003, at 11:14:12
She is awesome!!!! So easy to talk to. Knows just what I am thinking. Ask questions which Michael NEVER did. She didn't make me feel inferior about anything at all. She said I had value. Yes value. My mouth fell open and my mind went blank. Me and value. Those two words were never spoken together in the same sentence. I'm still stumped. She was stumped too. She almost laughed because I was so dumbfounded. This is when she said "Oh yes we have some work to do" Value. I just love it. She said my husband married me because he must have known I was valuble. I told her NO. I was pretty and loved sex. Then we both laughed. I laughed!!! What a joy. I am so happy. She is good. Really good. And only 15 minutes away!!
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2003, at 19:57:51
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
That's great Eggy. I'm so happy you landed in a safe place.
Posted by fallsfall on September 8, 2003, at 21:54:53
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
I am so happy for you!! This is wonderful. It is so nice to click with a therapist and feel comfortable. Enjoy!
Posted by noa on September 13, 2003, at 13:15:32
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news, posted by Eggy on September 8, 2003, at 19:43:30
That's so wonderful! Good for you for picking yourself up and finding a new therapist, and this one sounds very promising, indeed.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
In reply to Re: I have BETTER news. » Eggy, posted by noa on September 13, 2003, at 13:15:32
Michael my therapist that said he couldn't see me anymore came back from California and called me yesterday. He said this "Look whose back" I said "That's nice to know" he said, "How are you doing?" I said, "I have some things there I need to pick up. When can I get them?" He was puzzled. I could tell he was somewhat at a loss for words. He couldn't believe that I didn't sit around the whole time in self-pity waiting for him to get back (I sort of did but he doesn't have to know that) He actually was still going to be my therapist. He never once acted like he said he wouldn't. He sort of stammered out "UH so Uh have you hooked up with someone else already". And I said "Actually I have". He said "So do you want to come by today and see me and we can talk and maybe you can get your stuff. I was so confused. Because I wanted to say, "I want you back...please take me back." but instead I said " No my husband will pick my stuff up. Just throw my journals away and put my other things in an envelope and he will be there after work." The journal thing killed him. He loved me doing those journals. 2 years worth.
But this morning I don't know what to think. I want to go back to him. I like my new therapist and I don't want to lose her. I miss him terribly. I am dying to lay on his couch and talk to him. I am so upset and confused. I even cut up my arm a few minutes ago. But I know not going back to get my things was a good step. I am a tad bit suicidal. Just thinking about it a little. Why did he have to call after what he said and did??? Why didn't he just leave it where it left off? I think what he did was inappropriate but it still got to me. I can feel myself sliding back down into that pit of dark sludge! Somewhere in this body is a happy person. I have seen her. I wish she would bounce out and take over and tell Michael to kiss her butt.
Posted by noa on September 18, 2003, at 14:32:57
In reply to Confusing Call from old therapist, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
When is your next appointment with the new therapist? I think you should go see her to process this before you decide what to do.
I don't know what to think either--except that my gut tells me that you are getting such conflicting messages from Michael and that is one thing you do not need from a therapist. If you are anything like me, chances are you have had plenty of those kind of mixed and confusing messages (crazy making) from people in your life and that is hard enough. Therapists are supposed to try to NOT replicate that kind of confusing stuff.
SO, my gut is giving me very uncomfortable feelings about him, but I, of course, can't judge from over here, not being you and all, only knowing a bit about this, etc.
So that is why I suggest holding off on deciding and talking with the new therapist about it to try to process what is going on.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 14:51:37
In reply to Confusing Call from old therapist, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 8:35:10
I agree with Noa that you should talk to your new therapist.
I think it was fine to send your husband after your things.
Two things that strike me are:
1. If a therapist makes a threat (I won't see you any more) they should not back out of it. Otherwise, how do you know when to believe them?
2. Are you in Psychoanalysis? You talk about a couch. I have read that Psychoanalysis is not good for Borderlines because there isn't enough structure. What kind of therapy does the new therapist do?
Let us know how it goes.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
In reply to Re: Confusing Call from old therapist » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 14:51:37
I am going to talk to my new therapist on Monday. And also get this...my P-doc was in with my T(same practice) and he had his secretary call today to tell me that he has mailed me a letter to explain in detail why he can no longer be my doctor. I didn't ask for that. I could care less about HIM!
About the type of therapy I get...yep the ol couch therapy. No CBT or much else around here. But My new T has already done more for me or at least made me think more than Michael ever did. Maybe it is because she is a woman.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 17:09:19
In reply to Re: , posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
You definately have confusing doctors. Do you know what type of therapy your new therapist does? CBT is supposed to be very successful for Borderlines. (I did CBT for 8 1/2 years - and for a while it was really good for me. Now I'm in Psychodynamic - and this is better for now.)
Posted by kara lynne on September 18, 2003, at 18:35:58
In reply to Re: , posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 15:55:03
Hi eggy,
I hope you're feeling better. Maybe I don't know the entire story, but I still cannot understand what you ever did wrong. You cancelled one appt. and had an episode of doubt about the therapy? And for this Michael said you had to find someone else?Whew. These therapists and their egos are too much for me to handle.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 20:56:22
In reply to Re: » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 17:09:19
Here is a link so you can preview my new therapist. She looks different than this. She actually has blonde hair now. I hunted her down as soon as I got her name. Such a stalker. Actually she said she had an old website she thought was still up. And it was. But I had already found it before she told me.
http://www.yousucceed.com/biopage.html
Now if I heard correctly she mentioned behavioral therapy. I have real problems going out by myself. OK I don't go anywhere ever alone. Or do anything ever by myself. Actually her office is across from Kmart and one of our goals is one day to go there with her and we will split up. I will not need her services then. I will be dead!!! But this is a goal. A goal for the year 2008 maybe. I tried to find a DBT therapist but there are none in my area. She is good though. Very good. She reads me like a book.
Posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 21:54:19
In reply to Re: fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 20:56:22
Thanks for the link, Eggy.
I guess I'm a little confused, though. The link describes a woman who does "coaching". Coaching is not the same as therapy. Coaches are not licensed, but Therapists are. One of the related pages says that if you have psychiatric or emotional problems that you need to address those first (with someone else). I would think that Borderline would fall into that category.
Maybe she has finished the requirements for being licensed since that web page was created. Us Borderlines tend to be difficult to handle, so you would want to be sure that she has sufficient training so that she will know the best way to help you. You mentioned behavioral therapy (that will help you to get into KMart), is she also trained in cognitive therapy? I think that (and this is just my opinion) the cognitive part is important to treat BPD.
I'm glad that you feel comfortable with her. Good rapport is so important.
Posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 22:32:25
In reply to Re: fallsfall » Eggy, posted by fallsfall on September 18, 2003, at 21:54:19
As for the borderline thing yes we are hard at times.I am so tired of being borderline. So sick of it. She is trained in CBT but not DBT. I wanted to do the DBT. I heard the DBT is really good. Yet I still get them confused.
She is a licensed Psychologist.Plus many other letters after her name. Not that this means anything. As soon as sit down she is like reading my mind. We are straight to the point. With Michael, I had to ask him to ask me questions. But he was still awesome. But with Michael my time would be up and I wouldn't have said anything. But the time I spent in there felt so good. But it is different with Laberta.
The very first day somehow we got on the conversation of my father. I think I mentioned how I felt as if Michael was my father.(she asked about him) And so many issues about my father were talked about. So many things I have always wanted to say and never did. Thoughts I had, feelings, abandonment issues. And she was right there. I actually cried real tears. Michael never saw me cry. We never really talked about my dad. Not once Michael had decided that yes, My dad is a jerk. Then no more dad talk. But Laberta explained and is trying to convince me that my dad is the one who is losing out not loving me. That he is the one who doesn't know how to love me. Not that I am bad or stupid. That no matter how hard I try I cannot live up to his expectations. She wants me to know that I am valuable. I am valuable no matter what he thinks.
I just hope I am doing the right thing. I think Laberta is definitely more helpful but I sure do miss Michael.
What type questions should I ask her?
Posted by fallsfall on September 19, 2003, at 9:54:49
In reply to Re: fallsfall, posted by Eggy on September 18, 2003, at 22:32:25
She is a licensed Psychologist.Plus many other letters after her name. - well, I think that is does mean something. A good something. It means that she has had appropriate education and demonstrated her skills. It also means that she is bound by the ethics rules that therapists have. I think that is important.
DBT is like a layer on top of CBT. DBT is just a bit more specific for borderlines. You might ask her if she has seen the books ("Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder" and "Skills Training Manual for Borderline Personality Disorder"). The first book is meant for therapists, but I have it and I have found reading it to be helpful. The second book gives an overview of DBT and lesson plans and handouts for the Skills Training Group - this book is easier to read than the first book.
When I found these books I showed them to my therapist. She immediately went out and bought them. There was a Skills Training Group starting up, so I enrolled and she attended the therapist meetings for that group.
The Skills Training Group is no longer offered in this area. I have a friend whose therapist is including some of the DBT Skills into her regular therapy.
The best thing about DBT is that it takes into account the way that borderlines think. So it avoids some things that wouldn't be good for us, and adds in other things that we need.
From what you have said, she definately seems to be a better choice for you than he was.
Good for you!
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