![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on October 15, 2006, at 18:56:23
I recently visited a pro ana (pro anorexia) site. More than three girls who posted there died because of anorexia, yet the girls there still encouraged each other to fast. Some of the girls there had BMIs in the 12s.
Do they want to help each other commit suicide?
Deneb*
Posted by NikkiT2 on October 16, 2006, at 6:01:20
In reply to I don't get pro ana, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2006, at 18:56:23
I will quote you from a message above..
"I want to be thin. I want to see my ribs and my hip bones. I want to fit into a size zero and I definitely want to weigh less than 100 lbs. I want to have really skinny arms and legs."
NS.
Nikki
Posted by Deneb on October 16, 2006, at 17:37:05
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana » Deneb, posted by NikkiT2 on October 16, 2006, at 6:01:20
I don't want to see my ribs. I only want to see them when I suck in my stomach. I can see them now when I do that, but I want them to be more defined.
I get wanting to be thin, but I don't get wanting to be thin to the point of dying. I especially don't get why anyone would help someone starve themselves to the point of death.
Anyways, my goal weight is 95 lbs and at that weight I'm only 1 pound underweight so it's no big deal.
I'm going to make it to 95 lbs within a year's time. It'll be a healthy weight loss.
I really am fat. My Mom and everyone in my family says I'm fat. My Mom encourages me to lose 10 pounds. She tempts me with junk food like cookies and chips, but she wants me to lose weight. It's twisted.
I'm going to lose weight the healthy way.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on October 16, 2006, at 18:18:17
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana *trigger*, posted by Deneb on October 16, 2006, at 17:37:05
I *wouldn't* be underweight at 95 lbs at all. I used a BMI calculator that said anything under a BMI of 19.5 is underweight, but I found that it's actually under 18.5 that's underweight. At 18.5 I would be 92 pounds.
Also, for some reason, the BMI calculator on this site says being under a BMI of 20 is underweight, which I don't think is correct.
Bob, are you *sure* that a BMI under 20 is underweight? It doesn't seem right to me.
Deneb*
Posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 19:00:44
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana *trigger*, posted by Deneb on October 16, 2006, at 17:37:05
Deneb : I'm just speaking from personal experience here. I don't claim to be a scientific authority, and my opinion can be one of many. This is just stuff I've absorbed through my own treatments.
>>>>> I get wanting to be thin, but I don't get wanting to be thin to the point of dying. I especially don't get why anyone would help someone starve themselves to the point of death.
The problem with anorexia is that once the disease takes hold, it's not just like regular dieting. Starving yourself (malnutrition, lack of body fat, ketosis...)changes not only your body, but terribly impairs your brain. Your brain needs glucose to function. So even when your body can break down your organs and muscle to survive, your brain can't use that. Having anorexia physiologically distorts your perception abilities - that's why emaciated people can look at themselves and still see fat. But often, eating represents a variety of other issues for AN sufferers, not ONLY a way to manipulate the body (For example, I've known a woman who became unwilling to swallow after being raped. Others felt that eating represented deserving being cared for, and restricted out of a kind of deep unworthiness and self-hate).
An eating disorder is VERY hard to stop, it's like a snowball that just keeps picking up speed. And it's blinding, it makes you not *realize* that death could be a possibility. Plus, alot of the time ANA's have such intense relationships with the idea of control, that it's easy to have an "it [death, or severe medical complications]won't happen to me" mentality.
Personally, I think sometimes that pro-ana sites are used by people as a way to find a community to be a part of. Unfortunately, I think people throw around the title of Anorexic way too casually, and end up making it trendy, in a way. I would think that anyone who would idolize and glorify a person who sadly ended up starving themself to death, do it because they are not taking the disease, or the info on it, seriously.
The only other explanation that I think is relevant is that, the disease is so difficult to beat, so hard to find good treatment for, and causes such trauma to the body, that alot of anorexics get so severly depressed and hopeless that they decided to just give in and accept they will die that way, and I'd assume alot do.
>>>>Anyways, my goal weight is 95 lbs and at that weight I'm only 1 pound underweight so it's no big deal. I'm going to make it to 95 lbs within a year's time. It'll be a healthy weight loss.
> I really am fat. My Mom and everyone in my family says I'm fat. My Mom encourages me to lose 10 pounds. She tempts me with junk food like cookies and chips, but she wants me to lose weight. It's twisted.
((((((Deneb)))))) even if it were true, as your mom says, that you need to lose 10lbs, then you really wouldn't be "really fat" right now.
I've done eating disorder re-feeding treatments three times (with the longest one lasting 6months) and they always made everybody (even if you were only 5 lbs under your highest "lowest healthy weight") go on "weight gain" calorie levels to reach a BMI of 19. I'm not saying that this is the standard written in stone, but I mean, you can find anything on the internet. A regular female with a BMI of 12 would likely die, or completely lose their reproductive capacities, or various other sequalae of the disorder.
Deneb, what's going on? Why is weight becoming so important to you? Someone with body image issues may answer, "because I'm fat", but what comes after that. What's the "...and..." part for you? (it's always there you know)
The fact that you are surfing pro-ana sites suggests that you are *not* being healthy about your desire to lose weight, even though you think your goal healthy. Can you see that? I always get terribly concerned when I hear someone looking down the same path that I regret I chose so much. It was one of those "I wish I could turn back time", life-altering choices.Be careful ((((D)))). I care about you and wouldn't want you hurting yourself.
blove, EL
Posted by Poet on October 21, 2006, at 17:05:44
In reply to I don't get pro ana, posted by Deneb on October 15, 2006, at 18:56:23
Hi Deneb,
I don't get pro ana sites either. I have a very close friend who condems those sites, yet, clearly identifies with them. I fear if she ever posted on one she'll give give those girls 30 plus years of bad advice.
She'd never tell those girls that at age 46 she has heart damage and the bone density of someone 25 years older than she is. That doctors have told her that if she falls down her legs will snap like twigs. As she says, you can't reverse anything at this stage, so why give up restricting what I eat?
Not everyone who diets to lose weight develops an ED, I'm not saying you will, but what bothers me is that you want to be at the lowest possible weight with a healthy BMI.
Poet
Posted by Deneb on October 22, 2006, at 17:17:49
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***SA, Ana trigger*****, posted by ElaineM on October 17, 2006, at 19:00:44
> Deneb : I'm just speaking from personal experience here. I don't claim to be a scientific authority, and my opinion can be one of many. This is just stuff I've absorbed through my own treatments.
Thank-you for sharing Elaine. I understand a little better now. I just recently experienced the effects of a lack of glucose on the brain. I went on a very low carb ketogenic diet for 5 days and I started to feel some brain fog...not so good for studying.
A lot of the people on that site were extremely depressed. I can see how they can not care about living or dying. I realize now that Ana is a very serious illness and is definitely NOT a way to lose weight. I also realize that a person cannot *become* anorexic, either they are or they aren't.
> Personally, I think sometimes that pro-ana sites are used by people as a way to find a community to be a part of.
I see that too now. It must be awfully lonely being anorexic and having no one understand you.
> ((((((Deneb)))))) even if it were true, as your mom says, that you need to lose 10lbs, then you really wouldn't be "really fat" right now.
I know I'm not obese or technically overweight right now, but I really do have a lot of fat. When I'm thin I will know it and I will maintain my weight.
>
> I've done eating disorder re-feeding treatments three times (with the longest one lasting 6months) and they always made everybody (even if you were only 5 lbs under your highest "lowest healthy weight") go on "weight gain" calorie levels to reach a BMI of 19.I imagine re-feedings are not fun. I understand in some cases they do re-feedings against one's will?
> Deneb, what's going on? Why is weight becoming so important to you?
I dunno. I just want to look better.
> Someone with body image issues may answer, "because I'm fat", but what comes after that. What's the "...and..." part for you?
I feel like if I can control my eating and make it to 95 pounds it will be an accomplishment for me and right now I really need some accomplishments.
(it's always there you know)
> The fact that you are surfing pro-ana sites suggests that you are *not* being healthy about your desire to lose weight, even though you think your goal healthy. Can you see that? I always get terribly concerned when I hear someone looking down the same path that I regret I chose so much. It was one of those "I wish I could turn back time", life-altering choices.I sort of got kicked off the site so it doesn't matter anymore. The people there don't want me going down the same path they went through. They said they wouldn't wish an ED on their worst enemy.
Thanks Elaine. Are you better now?
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on October 22, 2006, at 17:29:48
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana » Deneb, posted by Poet on October 21, 2006, at 17:05:44
I'm sorry about your friend's health problems. It's too bad more people don't know about what can happen.
> Not everyone who diets to lose weight develops an ED, I'm not saying you will, but what bothers me is that you want to be at the lowest possible weight with a healthy BMI.
>
> PoetI just lost a little more weight, but it could just be water weight. I'm 108.8 lbs now. I'm 13.8 lbs from goal. I'm still pretty fat at 108.8 lbs so I don't think I will be very thin at 95 lbs. I have a very small frame so I can afford to be very light.
I will see whether or not I need to lose more weight at 95 lbs. I hope not.
I want my body fat to be at less than 20%. 17% would be good I think.
Deneb*
Posted by gardenergirl on October 23, 2006, at 11:30:42
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana » Poet, posted by Deneb on October 22, 2006, at 17:29:48
Deneb,
I see focusing so much on numbers as a red flag. There's no evidence to suggest that you will feel happier or look better if you reach a certain numeric goal. In my experience, that approach can lead to obsessions and compulsions about eating which can prove dangerous and very difficult to combat. I strongly suggest you consult with a physician about ways to improve your overall health versus trying to meet a numeric goal.You've also said in other posts that you feel fat. I wonder if that is perhaps a skewed perception. Is this something you talk to your therapist about?
gg
Posted by ElaineM on October 24, 2006, at 10:50:09
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***SA, Ana trigger***** » ElaineM, posted by Deneb on October 22, 2006, at 17:17:49
>Thank-you for sharing Elaine. I understand a little better now. I just recently experienced the effects of a lack of glucose on the brain. I went on a very low carb ketogenic diet for 5 days and I started to feel some brain fog...not so good for studying.
>I realize now that Ana is a very serious illness and is definitely NOT a way to lose weight. I also realize that a person cannot *become* anorexic, either they are or they aren't.
***No it's not a *way* to lose weight, but very often it's a tragic *result*. A certain mental preset, combined with strict dieting is sometimes all it takes to trigger the anorexic mindset -- the rest follows. It's like when two weather systems can combine to create something terribly worse, much more destructive than either are seperately. Actually, people DO *become* anorexic, the problem is that people often don't *see* themselves crossing that line. People don't intentionally become mentally ill -- true -- but there is often a fine-line where people are teetering in the inbetween. ANd you just want to pull the person back - save the time and the struggle and the suffering. But perhaps what you really meant was that people can't be "a little bit" anorexic. I think anorexic is used synonimously alot with skinny, thin, strict/obsessive dieter, picky eater..... alot of stuff. It's kinda like saying a person who's having a random bad day is in a depression. I worry that casual usage of psychiatric diagnosis' in place of a plain old adjectives or whatnot, kinda mocks the people who are suffering from the actual thing. [I'm not directing all this part with you you know, right? This is just one of the things that I'll get up on a soap box for -- It's too important to me ]
>> Personally, I think sometimes that pro-ana sites are used by people as a way to find a community to be a part of.
>I see that too now. It must be awfully lonely being anorexic and having no one understand you.
***Or it could be the other way: It must be awfully lonely being lonely, and hoping to find someone to understand you by apprenticing anorexia.
Or: It must be awfully lonely for the person who thinks that their only hope of someone identifying their pain is by wearing it on their body.
There's so many more variations.>> ((((((Deneb)))))) even if it were true, as your mom says, that you need to lose 10lbs, then you really wouldn't be "really fat" right now.
>When I'm thin I will know it and I will maintain my weight.
****Completely common attitude, and also famous last words. Guess what *I* said when going down? I rationalized, "I just want to see XXXlbs....I just want to see 5 less.....okay when I hit XXXlbs I'll stop.....I'm so close to it, I wonder if I could drop just 5 more, it's only 5......okay, if I ever get to XX then I'll know I'm not in control anymore and I'll ask for help..." Guess what thousands of others are probably saying right now too? It's soooo common it's both heartbreaking and maddening to witness the same old lines in someone else. I'm just wondering, but was it a sentence like that that got you kinda kicked off that other website? I know you likely didn't mean this, but I'll tell you how someone who has AN *could* maybe hear it. "Ya, I know I sound like I'm on the same path, but I'm gonna do it right" It could sound a little like "...ya but I'll handle it, I'm better than you." Like if someone who smashed their car speeding and ruined their legs, was trying to convince another to stop doing the same, and then the person says, "I'll be okay, I just *won't* drive into something". Gee really!? D* I realize absolutely NOTHING I say will dissuade you, but if I didn't try and say something I'd feel like an a$$hole - like I let myself down.
>>I've done eating disorder re-feeding treatments three times (with the longest one lasting 6months) and they always made everybody (even if you were only 5 lbs under your highest "lowest healthy weight") go on "weight gain" calorie levels to reach a BMI of 19.
>I imagine re-feedings are not fun. I understand in some cases they do re-feedings against one's will?
***It's rather degrading actually -- but a necessity (not to say that I don't have criticisms about how it's done) Yes, it's possible to be forced, but it's not common. I believe it's quite hard for an order to be upheld even before it gets to a legal hearing-- they have to prove death is imminent, not probable, or possible, or eventual. I'm not sure how much harder or easier the process is if a relative is attempting to become the personal decision maker. It wasn't my parents who intervened in my case, it was a pdoc. So I don't know.
>>Deneb, what's going on? Why is weight becoming so important to you?
>I dunno. I just want to look better.
>I feel like if I can control my eating and make it to 95 pounds it will be an accomplishment for me and right now I really need some accomplishments.***D you've set up my response for me - One sentence contradicts the other. I'm sure you didn't intend to do that - do you see how much risk that suggests. Why weight? Why not deal in a currency that has value. Why not be accomplished by working on improving upon the diagnosis you already have (whatever that may be)? I also recall hearing that you do well in school - Why not focus on that more? Or, you once wanted to volunteer somewhere, why not make that the possible accomplishment. Are you kinda hoping your mom sees it as an accomplishment? I don't know your mom and all, but from my own exp., mom's complaining tends to just shift to something else whenever any change is made. I think when people are critical of others, it's not the *thing* they're complaining about that means something to them -- it's the *process* of complaining. My parents used to want me to play piano well - when I did that they complained I didn't have a job - when I got a respectable one my mom complained that my hair was too long and straggly.... [She didn't ever stop ;-) Even still, whenever the opportunity arrises ] ...ever experience the same?
I'm not saying every family reacts the same, but such an overt mental illness as anorexia is very hard for alot of parents to take. And it doesn't always bring caring (though that's not why I spiralled). My parents couldn't cope, felt very angry and defensive, and completely withdrew. They still hate me for doing that to them. They've never been more unsupportive of me than when I was ill. Alot of relationships can't cope with the strain of an ED -- alot of significant others can't compete with it. It's really sad.
You do get some compliments at first -- they stop very quickly. You want to know what we were prasied for as being our "accomplishments" once landing in the treatment that we never intended to aim for in the first place? We actually got a round of applause and hugged each other when after weeks and weeks an AN finally had a bowel movement -- Yep that's the stuff you get gold stars for during ward meetings. Our accomplishments became: adding chocolate syrup to our milk when we didn't have to!, cutting our meat into 10 pieces instead of 50!, ticking off pecan pie on the menu instead of jello!, tapering down motility meds!......congrats!....... how embarassing.....how far from "You've lost X amount of lbs, what an accomplishment."
>I sort of got kicked off the site so it doesn't matter anymore. The people there don't want me going down the same path they went through. They said they wouldn't wish an ED on their worst enemy.
*** No it DOES matter - you matter. I wouldn't have responded just to defend or condemn pro-ana sites. THe fact that you're allowed on that site anymore or not doesn't influence my concern for you at all. I'm glad though that you can see that they banned you to try and send you a message that would sink in. But I think they were also self-protecting. May I be honest? The part that I could finding upsetting is that, to me, you have a duality to your posts that I haven't seen in people until they were already trying to recover. You are aware of, and use bio-physiological terminology like low ketogenic diet (my goodness girl you were even able to explain Kwashiorkor syndrome!) - you know what the consequences of messing with nutrition are. You've heard personal accounts - told personally to you, for you. I think even your pdoc said to stop. Yet you still adopt all the "ignorant dieter's" (ignorant not as derogatory, just as unaware) traits: this importance of numbers, of restricting food, seeing bones. bingeing etc. It's scary to see someone bet their health that they can see forward down the path better than others can see back. And I worry that if you did get sick if would be harder for you to forgive yourself because you have had people telling from the very beginning how to avoid hardship. But I suppose this is just one of those things were you've got to let others make their own mistakes. If you want to read more studies on physiology do a search on the Keyes study.
>Thanks Elaine. Are you better now?
*** Doesn't work that way either. I mean, I'm sure there are random exceptions, but I'm very confident in saying that most ED sufferers NEVER get better - as in never get back to normal. Though maybe we define "better" differently. Often, the only thing that gets better is someone's weight. But you can't turn your mind back to before. It's like saudering tinted shades to your head. I'll ALWAYS see food differently. That's something I had NO idea would happen. I assumed going into treatment the first time that once they helped me start eating again, I'd just start to eat normally, like I did before I was sick. Food gets ruined forever. I'll never eat another piece of my own birthday cake again - or at least not without feeling like scum. My view of sizes, of myself, of "acceptable", of the relative importance of shape, will ALWAYS be skewed. Forever. I'll never know what it means to eat without analyzing, and critisizing, and taking out everything enjoyable or sociable from food, or food environments. I know I'll never be able to use a food scale or a bathroom scale in a normal way ever again. I'm not saying people don't re-adopt healthy ways of taking care of themselves -- I can eat properly, but it's a constant fight. Normal behaviours that others may do without realizing will never be second-nature to me anymore. People learn to fight the voice in their head, but it rarely ever disappears.
Yes, I am at a weight higher than I have been in years, so I am "better" that way. But "better", for me, for many others, will never mean physically healthy. I do have a seperate (that i don't mention) medical illness but if you want to know the AN collateral damage, even though I'm "better" now:
-Osteoporosis (I'm only a few years older than you. If I fell down the stairs it'd be dangerous).
-My bowels almost completely shut down. I'll never *not* be on laxatives (and anti-dia.) and this is a few *years* since I was last low. [you don't even want to know the rest]
-I need to take motility meds to move food through my GI tract.
-Chronic acid-reflux.
-My teeth are horribly decalcified and I've recently been seeing the resulting root-canals appearing. (two years after becoming "better")
-I've f*cked up my hormone levels - my menstrual cycle exists (thank god) but it's very very "wonky" (to leave out the lovely details)- they can't tell me what this means in terms of being able to concieve.
-Severe insomnia (like, refered to a sleep clinic kind. This issue goes farther for me but I don't ever go into it) [longterm insomnia is more dangerous than some think, though I won't go into that here)
-I have brutal health anxiety now (which I didn't have before getting sick). But when you do f*cked up things to your body, it does weird f*cked up things back and then your already anxiety prone brian goes crazy trying to figure it all out.I won't mention the hair and skin etc....mini-side effects. Though that cr@p happens too, it's not as devastating (it can reverse).
And I won't go into how wildly unstable you can become mentally. Not just in an "I can't remember all the stuff for my seminar presentation" way - but an "I can't remember how to write cursive" , or "I can't figure out what bills and coins to give the cashier" way.
And this was all just from plain old severe starvation /malnutrition. I never exercised. I never took laxatives (until I was "better" - they are medically prescribed "safer" ones.) I tried to throw up three times in my life but never ever could, so I can't say any of the damage was from that.
And I was *only* "severely sick" for a few years (and not consecutive runs, ie. 6months well, 6 intreatment,...etc), and not while I was going through puberty.
It's not like I was wildly symptomatic for decades. And all this still happened. I'm not saying it all to get sympathy either. I did this to myself. I deserve the consequences - all of them.
The scary and sad thing is, I'm NOT the sensational, anomaly-like exception. Many get way "sicker" than I did. Many end up way worse than me. I'm the plain old, extrodinarily average example. I won't lie, there was one part of how I was when AN that was considered quite serious, but a misconception I fell for was that bad stuff only happens to the most extreme.Wanna know the worst part. I'd still -- after all that -- try and lose weight if I could. THAT'S how sick it makes a person and how much it stays with you - that's what it does you. That's disgusting to me. It's humiliating to say, but I still have those thoughts, so I figured it would only be fair to say it too.
Someone is gonna do what they want, when they want, because they want -- I'm not saying this cause I think it should be the reason you change your mind, or will make you do it. I find that ED's only postpone sh*t. I can't make you skip the middle part and go straight to working on the feelings you have of not having worth. But I'm offering some info, some ugly honesty, some personal evidence -- hoping that if nothing, you can feel that I care about this process you're undertaking. I mean, that's all I can do right. And that I wish you more than you think this will bring.
I don't know if I'll be able to contribute more (and not because I'm mad at you, or anyone else wanting to be smaller) but just cause it hurts my heart too much - whenever I look backwards regret is always there. (I'm not in a good place right now with other stuff too and it's hard to write anything that makes sense.) I can't even update my own thread right now, but I felt drawn too yours on this board. [and could it be possible for me to have written anymore than I did!!!! Jeez! ;-) ]
(((((Deneb)))))) Take care.
B-love, EL
Posted by ClearSkies on October 24, 2006, at 17:43:21
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***Ana trigger***** » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on October 24, 2006, at 10:50:09
thank you.
Posted by Deneb on October 25, 2006, at 20:12:13
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***Ana trigger***** » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on October 24, 2006, at 10:50:09
I really appreciate you writing to me Elaine. You put a lot of time and energy into your post.
I'm going to have to read it several times before attempting to respond.
Right now I'm concentrating how I already look OK and how maybe I'm not meant to be skinny.
Deneb*
Posted by sunnydays on October 27, 2006, at 19:45:13
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***Ana trigger***** » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on October 24, 2006, at 10:50:09
(((((((El))))))))
I don't have any experience with AN, but I just wanted to let you know your post was very very powerful and made me so much more capably of empathy for people suffering the disease, because I can just feel the suffering in that post.
sunnydays
Posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 20:03:54
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana » Deneb, posted by gardenergirl on October 23, 2006, at 11:30:42
> You've also said in other posts that you feel fat. I wonder if that is perhaps a skewed perception. Is this something you talk to your therapist about?
>
> ggI don't have a real therapist, just my pdoc. She tells me I'm at my perfect BMI and I don't need to lose any weight. I just disagree.
She tries to scare me out of dieting by saying I will just end up fatter if I diet.
Deneb*
Posted by Deneb on October 31, 2006, at 21:03:11
In reply to Re: I don't get pro ana ***Ana trigger***** » Deneb, posted by ElaineM on October 24, 2006, at 10:50:09
I don't think I will ever be anorexic. I like food too much.
> People don't intentionally become mentally ill -- true -- but there is often a fine-line where people are teetering in the inbetween.
I do think I'm teetering on the edge of bulimia though.
> >When I'm thin I will know it and I will maintain my weight.
>
> ****Completely common attitude, and also famous last words. Guess what *I* said when going down?I never restrict to less than 500 kcal a day so I'm sure I'll never be too skinny. I will try really hard to maintain the weight I feel best in.
> It's soooo common it's both heartbreaking and maddening to witness the same old lines in someone else.
I just don't think something like anorexia will happen to me. More worried about bulimia, which is probably just as bad.
> I'm just wondering, but was it a sentence like that that got you kinda kicked off that other website?
I didn't actually get kicked off. I wrote that I wanted to lose weight the healthy way and people there warned me that their site wasn't for people who were doing things the healthy way. They didn't want me sucked into doing self destructive things.
> D* I realize absolutely NOTHING I say will dissuade you, but if I didn't try and say something I'd feel like an a$$hole - like I let myself down.
Don't be so sure about that. Words can be very powerful. Maybe I just need to think about things longer.
> It wasn't my parents who intervened in my case, it was a pdoc. So I don't know.
I'm glad you made it out OK.
> Why not deal in a currency that has value. ... I also recall hearing that you do well in school - Why not focus on that more? Or, you once wanted to volunteer somewhere, why not make that the possible accomplishment. Are you kinda hoping your mom sees it as an accomplishment?
I am sort of avoiding the things I really need to work on, aren't I? I think my Mom will see losing weight as an accomplishment.
> I don't know your mom and all, but from my own exp., mom's complaining tends to just shift to something else whenever any change is made. ... Even still, whenever the opportunity arrises ] ...ever experience the same?
My Mom doesn't criticize me on my weight. Once in a while she'll say, "Wow, you really are kind of fat."
>
> My parents couldn't cope, felt very angry and defensive, and completely withdrew. They still hate me for doing that to them. They've never been more unsupportive of me than when I was ill.That's horrible. I hope you got support from other people.
> Our accomplishments became: adding chocolate syrup to our milk when we didn't have to!, cutting our meat into 10 pieces instead of 50!, ticking off pecan pie on the menu instead of jello!, tapering down motility meds!......congrats!....... how embarassing.....how far from "You've lost X amount of lbs, what an accomplishment."
I can only imagine how difficult those things are to do.
> you know what the consequences of messing with nutrition are. You've heard personal accounts - told personally to you, for you. I think even your pdoc said to stop. Yet you still adopt all the "ignorant dieter's" (ignorant not as derogatory, just as unaware) traits: this importance of numbers, of restricting food, seeing bones. bingeing etc.
I think it's mainly the purging I have to get under control. That's the main thing. I think my diet is OK.
> Often, the only thing that gets better is someone's weight. But you can't turn your mind back to before.
I've done the purging thing on and off and I'm always back to normal in between.
> Normal behaviours that others may do without realizing will never be second-nature to me anymore. People learn to fight the voice in their head, but it rarely ever disappears.
That's sad. I didn't know that.
I'm sorry about your continued health problems. It must be hard living with the consequences.
> And I was *only* "severely sick" for a few years (and not consecutive runs, ie. 6months well, 6 intreatment,...etc), and not while I was going through puberty.> I won't lie, there was one part of how I was when AN that was considered quite serious, but a misconception I fell for was that bad stuff only happens to the most extreme.
>Perhaps I too underestimate the harm from EDs. I'm not sure if I'm harming myself by vomiting a few times.
> Wanna know the worst part. I'd still -- after all that -- try and lose weight if I could.
Would you lose weight that extremely though? Is even a little bit of weight loss dangerous for someone with anorexia?
> But I'm offering some info, some ugly honesty, some personal evidence -- hoping that if nothing, you can feel that I care about this process you're undertaking. I mean, that's all I can do right. And that I wish you more than you think this will bring.
Thank-you for your honesty. I'll think about it often.
> - whenever I look backwards regret is always there.
Can there still be regret when it was out of your control?
Deneb*
This is the end of the thread.
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