![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 11 to 35 of 40. Go back in thread:
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 26, 2002, at 9:56:28
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by Vince on January 26, 2002, at 0:55:45
> > This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
> >
> > Here goes..
> >
> > This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
> >
> >
> > I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
> >
> > One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
> >
> > Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
> >
> > Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
> >
> > Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
> >
> > They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
> >
> > So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> > Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> > But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
>
> Try this link to a news clip on an expiermental medication. I've requested to be in the study. I don't know if I'll be accepted though. However, my doctor said that he may be able to get the medication on humanitarian grounds even before it is released.
>
> http://www.ksl.com/dump/news/cc/series/blues.htm
>
> Click on "RealVideo" and watch it. The video has more information than reading the article.
>
> Vince
Vince thanks for sharing... My real Player wouldn't play the video clip. Do you know the name of the substance they are talking about in the article?Scott
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 26, 2002, at 10:13:33
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on January 26, 2002, at 2:23:56
> Scott, do you mind me asking -
> Are you upset at all about the past break-up with your girlfriend still? Or is she part of your dreams still? Not fully coming to terms with it & moving on could possibly contribute to you feeling low.
>
> Do you think you're bipolar at all? I'm admittedly no expert in that area but I've had a couple bipolar friends & from all I've read & heard, they always have had far less sleep needs when manic, or even hypomanic. Have you ever felt manic or hypomanic? Supposedly some bipolars never feel manic - don't know if that's accurate though.
>
> I never responded to your previous posts about your drinking, but if you're sensitive to alcohol (& I don't mean the intoxication part), your past drinking patterns are enough to screw you up without all the meds added on.
>
> As for Omega-3 fatty acids, I don't believe they'll bring about a remarkable "cure". Not that I don't think they're beneficial - cod liver oil & flax seeds have been part of my diet along with vitamin/mineral supplements for many years now but I don't think it'll make a quick fix, more a long-term strategy.
>
> Are you including any B vitamin complex tablets? Alcohol depletes many B vitamins & you don't have to be an alcoholic to have your levels lowered by drinking. There are forms of depression (not saying you have it, just mentioning it) caused by a deficiency of certain B vitamins such as niacin, floic acid, & B12.
>
> So I can't say for you what the cause(s) of your depression might be, only that I'm trying to throw some ideas back that may prove helpful.ISOM,
You've been such a good sport about my relentless worrying out loud and looking for answers..I know I challenge people to the point of annoyance with my never ending questioning...
I am upset about the break-up. I deluded myself into thinking it was forever, but in truth it hadn't worked for a long time. I still think about her from time to time, but it's an idealized her I think about, not who she is today. I don't trust people easily to begin with, and my sex drive is low due to the meds, and on top of that it's hard to enter into a relationship with someone who is quote unquote normal when I'm on 3-4 pills a day and loaded with insecurities about them.The bipolar issue is less clear... I have never been clearly manic that is for sure. I have definately gotten 'high' temporaily off of AD's, but still needed as much sleep, I just felt all cheery and energized...It only lasted a few days on each drug.. Then I am often left agitated and anxious necessitating a benzo, which in combo with the AD keeps me okay..Just not great..and with side-effects. I can be intense, snappy, and impulsive a bit. My mind races, but mostly it’s anxious content, although I have had intense good r only racing. My sleep has always been the same. Difficulty going to sleep and waking up. This has been consistent my whole life.
I drink too much at times, and have indeed had a history of serious drug abuse. But cut out all the drugs 6 years ago. I think your right that the drinking screws up the mind and the meds confusing me even further.
Again I appreciate very much your desire to offer help!
Thanks,
Scott
Posted by Blue Cheer 1 on January 26, 2002, at 11:02:43
In reply to Last post of it's Kind.., posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 22:34:26
> This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
Right now (in a period of acute despair and frustration) might not be the time to withdraw from seeking support. No one, including your doctors, can predict the future.
>
> Here goes..
>
> This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
>
>
> I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
Seeing 4 different psychiatrists without giving them the necessary time to get to know you is a problem in itself.>
> One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.Too many psychiatrists see what they want to see -- and proceed according to their own orientation, etc. I think it's best to avoid these types, or at least have them justify their treatment decisions. (I've experienced this many times.)
>
> Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
>
> Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.You should try to find one psychiatrist to manage all of your psychiatric care.
>
> Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
>
> They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.The psychiatrist who helped me the most over the years once told me that diagnosis is the soft underbelly of psychiatry, and that psychiatric illness is an intertwining of biological and psychological disturbances. Your break-up with your girlfriend has to have an effect on your mood. Also, psychiatry is as much of an art as it is a science, and you can't expect any drug (or combination) to be *the* answer. It might be helpful to recognize that you may never be entirely free of your "illness" and resolve to treat it the best you can -- without giving up.
>
> So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.When you're withdrawing from a drug, it's not a good time to change doctors.
>
> Any thoughts?It sounds like you're experiencing a lot of anxiety over what's "wrong" right now, and anxiety underlies most "mental illnesses," in my opinion. So, you might try to put aside for now, undue worry and anxiety. In brief, I'd try to find one psychiatrist you're comfortable with, give him/her a chance to understand your problems in depth, and together fashion a systematic treatment plan.
Good luck, and keep your spirits up.
Blue
Posted by OldSchool on January 26, 2002, at 12:02:53
In reply to Last post of it's Kind.., posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 22:34:26
> This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
>
> Here goes..
>
> This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
>
>
> I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
>
> One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
>
> Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
>
> Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
>
> Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
>
> They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
>
> So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
>
> Any thoughts?
Four Pdocs in six weeks is apt to make you confused. Nobody here could diagnose you so Id say that you coming here to ask what you should do specifically is not going to help you much. You have learned first hand about psychiatry's weakest link...subjective, psychology based diagnosis. Which can literally change with a change of psychiatrist...or with a change in your psychiatrist's attitude or mood towards you as a patient. Diagnosis in psychiatry is extremely poor and is frequently incorrect. Ive been misdiagnosed several times and several times the misdiagnosis led me to being put on different classes of psychiatry medications other than antidepressants. And each time that happened to me, I began feeling markedly worse from any drug I took other than an antidepressant. I have never taken a psychiatry drug outside the class of antidepressants that made me actually feel better. With the one exception of benzos, Amantadine and Ritalin. Anticonvulsants, lithium and anti-psychotics all made me feel markedly worse, markedly more depressed and sometimes even more suicidal feeling (when I took atypical anti-psychotics).When I complained, none of the psychiatry people acted like they even gave a shit some of these drugs made me feel worse. In fact, Ive even had a few psychiatrists who actually wanted me to keep taking drugs which were making me feel markedly worse even after I complained about it to them! Largely as a result of my experiences, I have pretty much lost faith in psychiatry. I think it is largely a joke and so do many other people. Psychiatry has a bad name, always has had a bad name since its inception and probably always will have a bad name no matter how good the drugs get. Because the diagnosis sucks. Also, there is what I call an "institutionalised attitude problem" within psychiatry. Psychiatry needs an attitude adjustment in a major way.
None of these doctors really know whats wrong with us in the medical sense because psychiatric disorders are not considered "real" biological (neurological) disorders. There are no tests available in clinical psychiatry. When you have a psychiatric illness, it is not considered to be "medical" its considered to be a "psychological" problem. But the reality is we are truly sick in the medical sense. Functional neuroimaging is beginning to prove this. Functional brain scans of mentally ill people are clearly different than the brains of health people.
And the really sad thing is there is little interest within psychiatry itself to try to technologically improve diagnosis methods. Most of the interest is on developing new drugs for treatment.
Its all stupid to a large degree. Millions of people in the USA are suffering from bona fide brain based illnesses but most of the time we are not treated like we have a physical disease. This is why there are so many complaints in psychiatry.
I really dont know what to tell you. Psychiatry sucks. Lots of people all over the world are highly dissatisfied with psychiatry. Tons of complaints...more than in any other branch of medicine.
All I can say to you is you are not alone. You are not the only one who has been made confused, scared and disgusted with subjective, screwed up psychiatric diagnosis methods. Dont believe its just you, cause its not. I bet half the people on this board have been misdiagnosed at one time or another.
Good Luck,
Old School
Posted by IsoM on January 26, 2002, at 13:02:33
In reply to Re: For Bob - New Drug Trials » IsoM, posted by bob on January 26, 2002, at 3:32:37
It's tetrapeptides. And it means little. Tetrapeptides are simply snippets of protein. (tetra=four, peptide=2 or more amino acids bonded together)
So what it is telling us is *very little*. That's why I included a contact address if you were interested in learning more. I'm not. If anyone else happens, we'll eventually hear of it. It's just a new avenue that researchers are pursuing right now - tetrapeptides that are no doubt used in brain chemistry, bonded to a precursor of some neurotransmitter? All it means is here's something that can pass the brain/blood barrier.
It may lead nowhere. There was some excitement among allergy sufferers who loved cats about a new vaccine coming out called Catvax. Unfortunately, the excitement faded away after it failed to pass Phase III or IV (forget which). Such is the road to new meds.
> So is it tetrapeptide, or tetropeptide?
>
> What is this compound supposed to treat: bipolar, unipolar, schizophrenia, etc???
Posted by IsoM on January 26, 2002, at 13:35:43
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » IsoM, posted by Mr. Scott on January 26, 2002, at 10:13:33
Nah, Scott, you're not a bother or an annoyance at all. I think it's the combo of "mother/pseudo-psych" in me but if I have suggestions & someone's willing to listen, I don't mind sharing them
> > "...I am upset about the break-up. I deluded myself into thinking it was forever, but in truth it hadn't worked for a long time. I still think about her from time to time, but it's an idealized her I think about, not who she is today. I don't trust people easily to begin with, and my sex drive is low due to the meds, and on top of that it's hard to enter into a relationship with someone who is quote unquote normal when I'm on 3-4 pills a day and loaded with insecurities about them."
I think it's best to think about yourself & learn to be happy with who you are. When you reach the point of at least accepting yourself - thorns & flowers, then you'll be ready for a real relationship. Sorry to sound so sour perhaps, but a person who's doesn't love themself (& I don't mean a narcissistic-type love) isn't capable of truly loving another. Even though I take meds & my moods can occasionally change, I consider myself normal & balanced. I know that can sound ridiculous but I consider my judegment sound & to have a good grasp of common sense. Taking, or not taking, meds is not what I judge "normalness" to be.
> >"...The bipolar issue is less clear... I have never been clearly manic that is for sure. I can be intense, snappy, and impulsive a bit. My mind races, but mostly it’s anxious content, although I have had intense good r only racing. My sleep has always been the same. Difficulty going to sleep and waking up. This has been consistent my whole life."This sounds *much* more like ADD or ADHD. Checking yourself on-line will not confirm whether you do have it, but will give you an idea of whether that may be a reason for your behaviour. ADHD was so strongly indicative of me that I went to a psychologist for testing & he confirmed it. Why not check it out by trying a few of the adult designed tests?
Online Interactive Tests for ADHD: http://add.about.com/cs/onlinetests/
> > "...I think your right that the drinking screws up the mind and the meds confusing me even further."
Perhaps giving your system a chance to clear out all the meds & their effects, plus that of the alcohol may be more helpful than anything else. Hang in there & let us know from time to time how you're doing.And if you feel a worse relapse coming on, post back immediately for moral support.
Posted by Mr.Scott on January 26, 2002, at 13:45:59
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.., posted by OldSchool on January 26, 2002, at 12:02:53
> > This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
> >
> > Here goes..
> >
> > This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
> >
> >
> > I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
> >
> > One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
> >
> > Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
> >
> > Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
> >
> > Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
> >
> > They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
> >
> > So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> > Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> > But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
>
>
> Four Pdocs in six weeks is apt to make you confused. Nobody here could diagnose you so Id say that you coming here to ask what you should do specifically is not going to help you much. You have learned first hand about psychiatry's weakest link...subjective, psychology based diagnosis. Which can literally change with a change of psychiatrist...or with a change in your psychiatrist's attitude or mood towards you as a patient. Diagnosis in psychiatry is extremely poor and is frequently incorrect. Ive been misdiagnosed several times and several times the misdiagnosis led me to being put on different classes of psychiatry medications other than antidepressants. And each time that happened to me, I began feeling markedly worse from any drug I took other than an antidepressant. I have never taken a psychiatry drug outside the class of antidepressants that made me actually feel better. With the one exception of benzos, Amantadine and Ritalin. Anticonvulsants, lithium and anti-psychotics all made me feel markedly worse, markedly more depressed and sometimes even more suicidal feeling (when I took atypical anti-psychotics).
>
> When I complained, none of the psychiatry people acted like they even gave a shit some of these drugs made me feel worse. In fact, Ive even had a few psychiatrists who actually wanted me to keep taking drugs which were making me feel markedly worse even after I complained about it to them! Largely as a result of my experiences, I have pretty much lost faith in psychiatry. I think it is largely a joke and so do many other people. Psychiatry has a bad name, always has had a bad name since its inception and probably always will have a bad name no matter how good the drugs get. Because the diagnosis sucks. Also, there is what I call an "institutionalised attitude problem" within psychiatry. Psychiatry needs an attitude adjustment in a major way.
>
> None of these doctors really know whats wrong with us in the medical sense because psychiatric disorders are not considered "real" biological (neurological) disorders. There are no tests available in clinical psychiatry. When you have a psychiatric illness, it is not considered to be "medical" its considered to be a "psychological" problem. But the reality is we are truly sick in the medical sense. Functional neuroimaging is beginning to prove this. Functional brain scans of mentally ill people are clearly different than the brains of health people.
>
> And the really sad thing is there is little interest within psychiatry itself to try to technologically improve diagnosis methods. Most of the interest is on developing new drugs for treatment.
>
> Its all stupid to a large degree. Millions of people in the USA are suffering from bona fide brain based illnesses but most of the time we are not treated like we have a physical disease. This is why there are so many complaints in psychiatry.
>
> I really dont know what to tell you. Psychiatry sucks. Lots of people all over the world are highly dissatisfied with psychiatry. Tons of complaints...more than in any other branch of medicine.
>
> All I can say to you is you are not alone. You are not the only one who has been made confused, scared and disgusted with subjective, screwed up psychiatric diagnosis methods. Dont believe its just you, cause its not. I bet half the people on this board have been misdiagnosed at one time or another.
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Old SchoolOld School,
That post was genius, and precisely what I guess I needed to hear. I'm cutting and pasting it so I can refer to it when I feel frustrated again and anxious with uncertainty over the true nature of my affliction and how best to treat it pharmacologically. There was nothing in there that anyone but can disagree with except perhaps that lucky person who just by chance got the meds right on the first try.
Thanks,
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on January 26, 2002, at 13:54:42
In reply to Follow-up » Mr. Scott, posted by IsoM on January 26, 2002, at 13:35:43
> Nah, Scott, you're not a bother or an annoyance at all. I think it's the combo of "mother/pseudo-psych" in me but if I have suggestions & someone's willing to listen, I don't mind sharing them
>
> > > "...I am upset about the break-up. I deluded myself into thinking it was forever, but in truth it hadn't worked for a long time. I still think about her from time to time, but it's an idealized her I think about, not who she is today. I don't trust people easily to begin with, and my sex drive is low due to the meds, and on top of that it's hard to enter into a relationship with someone who is quote unquote normal when I'm on 3-4 pills a day and loaded with insecurities about them."
>
> I think it's best to think about yourself & learn to be happy with who you are. When you reach the point of at least accepting yourself - thorns & flowers, then you'll be ready for a real relationship. Sorry to sound so sour perhaps, but a person who's doesn't love themself (& I don't mean a narcissistic-type love) isn't capable of truly loving another. Even though I take meds & my moods can occasionally change, I consider myself normal & balanced. I know that can sound ridiculous but I consider my judegment sound & to have a good grasp of common sense. Taking, or not taking, meds is not what I judge "normalness" to be.
>
>
> > >"...The bipolar issue is less clear... I have never been clearly manic that is for sure. I can be intense, snappy, and impulsive a bit. My mind races, but mostly it’s anxious content, although I have had intense good r only racing. My sleep has always been the same. Difficulty going to sleep and waking up. This has been consistent my whole life."
>
> This sounds *much* more like ADD or ADHD. Checking yourself on-line will not confirm whether you do have it, but will give you an idea of whether that may be a reason for your behaviour. ADHD was so strongly indicative of me that I went to a psychologist for testing & he confirmed it. Why not check it out by trying a few of the adult designed tests?
> Online Interactive Tests for ADHD: http://add.about.com/cs/onlinetests/
>
> > > "...I think your right that the drinking screws up the mind and the meds confusing me even further."
>
> Perhaps giving your system a chance to clear out all the meds & their effects, plus that of the alcohol may be more helpful than anything else. Hang in there & let us know from time to time how you're doing.And if you feel a worse relapse coming on, post back immediately for moral support.Your post has made it into my scrap book of posts of wise advice I've received here on this site. Thank you for putting me at ease today and reminding me that occasionally one can find true empathy in this world. I wouldn't even know where to look or who to seek out to get the kind of feedback I get here. And no one is getting paid for it either. Thanks ISOM! I hope one day I can be of help to you.
Scott
Posted by Vince on January 26, 2002, at 14:57:07
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Vince, posted by Mr. Scott on January 26, 2002, at 9:56:28
>
> Vince thanks for sharing... My real Player wouldn't play the video clip. Do you know the name of the substance they are talking about in the article?
>
> ScottScott, I'm sorry, I don't know the name of the drug nor the company that produces it. I've tried to find out from the independant company that is testing it in our area, but they are really tight lipped about it. I think that the local tv channel that done the peice got in hot water with the FDA for doing such a glowing report on an as of yet unproven drug. The tests won't start here until mid March. They will choose the participants sometime in Feb. Pharm Research won't tell me anything more until then. If I find out anything before then I will keep you posted. I don't want to cause undo excitement, only give a ray of hope.
Vince
Posted by IsoM on January 26, 2002, at 16:18:29
In reply to Re: Follow-up » IsoM, posted by Mr.Scott on January 26, 2002, at 13:54:42
Posted by JohnX2 on January 27, 2002, at 15:02:35
In reply to Last post of it's Kind.., posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 22:34:26
About the sleep thing, I'm quite certain after
alot of uncertainty, that I am bipolar and I
never have had a lack of sleep. I have had difficulty
falling asleep and hypersomnia.There is a tricky line between diagnosing
someone with a mild bipolar 2 vs. ADD + depression.
The hyperactivity may be ADD or hypomania and
the diagnosis may be difficult. A lot of times
you just need to go by the medicine responses.
My medicine responses made it quite clear that
I was more of a bipolar II than a ADD + depression.One thing you might try is a med that can
treat either unipolar depression or bipolar
which is Lamictal. This was the first thing
that really worked for me, with no side effects
after hitting a steady dose.
Its tricky to dose when you start it,
and you must be extremely patient. Default
Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.regards,
John
> This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
>
> Here goes..
>
> This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
>
>
> I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
>
> One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
>
> Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
>
> Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
>
> Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
>
> They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
>
> So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
>
> Any thoughts?
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 27, 2002, at 20:17:09
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by JohnX2 on January 27, 2002, at 15:02:35
Thanks John for posting!
Damn..Damn..Damn.. I tried Lamictal and got a rash on my arm.
I think I have BPII and GAD, or ADD + Depression + GAD. Stimulants make me feel good temporarily but then they make me irritable, dysphoric, more anxious and even 'weird'.
Stabilizers scare me with all the side effects.
Scott
>
> About the sleep thing, I'm quite certain after
> alot of uncertainty, that I am bipolar and I
> never have had a lack of sleep. I have had difficulty
> falling asleep and hypersomnia.
>
> There is a tricky line between diagnosing
> someone with a mild bipolar 2 vs. ADD + depression.
> The hyperactivity may be ADD or hypomania and
> the diagnosis may be difficult. A lot of times
> you just need to go by the medicine responses.
> My medicine responses made it quite clear that
> I was more of a bipolar II than a ADD + depression.
>
> One thing you might try is a med that can
> treat either unipolar depression or bipolar
> which is Lamictal. This was the first thing
> that really worked for me, with no side effects
> after hitting a steady dose.
> Its tricky to dose when you start it,
> and you must be extremely patient. Default
> Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.
>
> regards,
> John
>
>
> > This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
> >
> > Here goes..
> >
> > This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
> >
> >
> > I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
> >
> > One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
> >
> > Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
> >
> > Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
> >
> > Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
> >
> > They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
> >
> > So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> > Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> > But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
> >
> > Any thoughts?
Posted by bob on January 27, 2002, at 20:27:22
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » JohnX2, posted by Mr. Scott on January 27, 2002, at 20:17:09
> Thanks John for posting!
>
> Damn..Damn..Damn.. I tried Lamictal and got a rash on my arm.They say some people have to titrate up on Lamictal VERY, VERY slowly (like 12.5mg, or even 7.25mg / week), and that sometimes low doses (like 75mg) are enough for eventual stabilization.
I followed the suggestions in "the kit" which starts you off at 50mg/day, and I got a rash and itching/burning skin big time. I never retried it after that, but my comments are based on what others have said on this bd.
Bob
Posted by sjb on January 28, 2002, at 10:05:00
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.., posted by OldSchool on January 26, 2002, at 12:02:53
Are you still under the care of a pyschiatrist? Do you still take ADs? If no to first question, do you see a neurologist for your scripts?
Posted by mr.scott on January 28, 2002, at 10:13:51
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.., posted by sjb on January 28, 2002, at 10:05:00
I still have a shrink..
Posted by Mark H. on January 30, 2002, at 0:38:36
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » sjb, posted by mr.scott on January 28, 2002, at 10:13:51
Scott,
You know where I stand on your drinking. But as for seeing four psychiatrists in six weeks, that is truly self-destructive behavior, because even minor differences in diagnosis and approach to treatment would completely undermine your confidence in all of them, leaving you with no support, no supervised course of action, and the perfect excuse to do nothing about your condition.
(Not to mention four doctors who no longer trust your ability to listen and comply with a treatment plan. Doctors -- believe it or not -- are subject to ordinary human feelings, and there are so many people in genuine need who value their care, that hardly a one of them has to tolerate a patient who goes shopping for competing diagnoses or otherwise acts in a way that discounts their usefulness, credibility, insight, education or experience. I'm not suggesting that we as patients have an obligation to coddle the egos of our physicians; however, it doesn't take too much disrespect to virtually guarantee that you will fall off the bottom of their list of people about whom they are particularly concerned.)
Your history of over-use of alcohol and drug abuse, your emotional sensitivity (including perhaps hyper-sensitivity to rejection and loss) along with your reaction to various medications, suggest that you *may* be a highly allergic person. Allergies (or sensitivities, if you're a purist) can CAUSE depression and all of your other symptoms. Have you ever run across Dr. Doris Rapp's book called "Is This Your Child?" It is a must-read for anyone with food sensitivities or allergies to mold, dust, diesel fumes or what have you. You may be eating your way to poor health.
Medicine is not sufficiently advanced to know what causes conditions like bipolar II and/or atypical depression. Yet many of us have successfully found help in a combination of carefully selected and trialed medications and in cognitive therapy.
You're a wonderful person, and I'm very fond of you. Don't give up on your search to feel better, and don't feel that you have to "suck it up" and refrain from complaining here. I for one will continue to clobber you with my point of view for as long as you need it!
With kind regards,
Mark H.
Posted by mr.scott on January 30, 2002, at 15:37:41
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.., posted by Mark H. on January 30, 2002, at 0:38:36
Mark,
Now maybe the first part of this response is steaped in hypersensitivity, but I kind of disagree about my motives to seek other opinions out...
I don't think my point in seeing the different doctors was with intent to do myself or them any harm. I think that it is more important that my body feels good or bad about a treatment decision, modality, or specific drug than to just follow along blindly down the road towards being overweight, half asleep, impotent and declared cured by some psychiatrist. The seeing different doctors grew out of repeated failures with 2 psychiatrists over a decade. One insisted I do Psychoanalysis full well knowing about my drug problem at the time. I have kind of lost faith in these healers. However I'm going to really give this some thought and re-read your response in case I am being dishonest with myself. I think I may have a innate tendency to be dishonest with myself for some reason.I did however go back to the same Psychiatrist I started with before getting the other opinions, and I actually feel more comfortable now with his uncertainty. I've been seeing him since 96...
That being said, I think the feedback you've given me is outstanding and the kind of input I need to hear. Also, the way you described my condition *feels* very accurate. And the allergy part is intersting since I do have nasal allergies. I will get the book you mentioned "Is This Your Child?" from the library or find it at the bookstore. It does sound intriguing.
Please Keep on clobbering me with the truth as you see it. I need that perhaps more than anything else.
Scott
> Scott,
>
> You know where I stand on your drinking. But as for seeing four psychiatrists in six weeks, that is truly self-destructive behavior, because even minor differences in diagnosis and approach to treatment would completely undermine your confidence in all of them, leaving you with no support, no supervised course of action, and the perfect excuse to do nothing about your condition.
>
> (Not to mention four doctors who no longer trust your ability to listen and comply with a treatment plan. Doctors -- believe it or not -- are subject to ordinary human feelings, and there are so many people in genuine need who value their care, that hardly a one of them has to tolerate a patient who goes shopping for competing diagnoses or otherwise acts in a way that discounts their usefulness, credibility, insight, education or experience. I'm not suggesting that we as patients have an obligation to coddle the egos of our physicians; however, it doesn't take too much disrespect to virtually guarantee that you will fall off the bottom of their list of people about whom they are particularly concerned.)
>
> Your history of over-use of alcohol and drug abuse, your emotional sensitivity (including perhaps hyper-sensitivity to rejection and loss) along with your reaction to various medications, suggest that you *may* be a highly allergic person. Allergies (or sensitivities, if you're a purist) can CAUSE depression and all of your other symptoms. Have you ever run across Dr. Doris Rapp's book called "Is This Your Child?" It is a must-read for anyone with food sensitivities or allergies to mold, dust, diesel fumes or what have you. You may be eating your way to poor health.
>
> Medicine is not sufficiently advanced to know what causes conditions like bipolar II and/or atypical depression. Yet many of us have successfully found help in a combination of carefully selected and trialed medications and in cognitive therapy.
>
> You're a wonderful person, and I'm very fond of you. Don't give up on your search to feel better, and don't feel that you have to "suck it up" and refrain from complaining here. I for one will continue to clobber you with my point of view for as long as you need it!
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Mark H.
Posted by JohnX2 on January 30, 2002, at 18:15:39
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » JohnX2, posted by Mr. Scott on January 27, 2002, at 20:17:09
I believe you can try lamictal again despite the
rash thing on your arm (The pdr says otherwise,
but I feel this is a legal "cover my ass" thing).
You really need a monster rash covering your whole body to be concenered.I would seriously give this another chance as
once you are on the med, the incidence of side
effects is extremely low from people posting on
this board. You just have to dose it REALLY SLOW.
I mean take 2-3 months if you have to. If your
skin gets itchy, stop at that dose for a while or
drop the dose, the redness will go away probably
most of the time, and then you can bump the dose.Personally, I think the Lamictal rash deal is
way overblown and physicians need to be properly
educated on how to dose this medicine.Good luck,
John> Thanks John for posting!
>
> Damn..Damn..Damn.. I tried Lamictal and got a rash on my arm.
>
> I think I have BPII and GAD, or ADD + Depression + GAD. Stimulants make me feel good temporarily but then they make me irritable, dysphoric, more anxious and even 'weird'.
>
> Stabilizers scare me with all the side effects.
>
> Scott
>
> >
> > About the sleep thing, I'm quite certain after
> > alot of uncertainty, that I am bipolar and I
> > never have had a lack of sleep. I have had difficulty
> > falling asleep and hypersomnia.
> >
> > There is a tricky line between diagnosing
> > someone with a mild bipolar 2 vs. ADD + depression.
> > The hyperactivity may be ADD or hypomania and
> > the diagnosis may be difficult. A lot of times
> > you just need to go by the medicine responses.
> > My medicine responses made it quite clear that
> > I was more of a bipolar II than a ADD + depression.
> >
> > One thing you might try is a med that can
> > treat either unipolar depression or bipolar
> > which is Lamictal. This was the first thing
> > that really worked for me, with no side effects
> > after hitting a steady dose.
> > Its tricky to dose when you start it,
> > and you must be extremely patient. Default
> > Disclaimer: Individual results may vary.
> >
> > regards,
> > John
> >
> >
> > > This sums up where I'm at and asks one final time for ideas on how to proceed. Henceforth I shall restrict my posting from being so desperate like and complaint oriented and accept that life is not ever going to exist on my terms. It seems the wisdom I seek is not to be found where I seek it. And so I will bandage up my wounds and proceed onward as I always have.
> > >
> > > Here goes..
> > >
> > > This happened a while ago, but I feel compelled to tell the story.
> > >
> > >
> > > I saw 4 shrinks in 6 weeks...
> > >
> > > One was known to diagnose BP II a lot (or see it where others miss it as my referring shrink put it), and he said he was diagnosing me with BP II but seemed disturbed that I never ever ever had a time in my life where I needed less sleep than usual. He said to take Depakote or Lithium, because not enough research has been done on the others for first line use. And that I can't take AD's. I tried the Depakote up to 750mg and was constipated and tired all the time...To the point where I could barely communicate. It helped a little but not much considering the side effects. I took it up to 1500mg, where I heard for the first time in my life absolutely no noise in my mind at all, yet I was conscious. I also began eating like a bear.
> > >
> > > Another shrink said "Take Prozac if it worked for you before" So I did and all it did was make me tired this time. Slept non-stop. He Adderall which made me overall worse. He then got as frustrated at me and started to punish me I believe with Depakote repeatedly saying my mood was unstable.
> > >
> > > Another shrink Said I have a neurological condition requiring anticonvulsants and his first choice was Dilantin which he said would "wake me up". I din't notice anything significant at all from the Dilantin.
> > >
> > > Another shrink said I had ADD as a child and am now depressed and anxious because of it. He gave me Serzone and Provigil. Serzone made my face swell.
> > >
> > > They all ignored the fact that I had broken up with a girlfriend of 5 + years not long before that. Or even consider that I could be in Zoloft Withdrawal which I recently discontinued due to muscle pain.
> > >
> > > So in the absence of any clear consensus I decided to seek out a physician who would give me both what worked in the past or the alternative I wanted to try.
> > > Klonopin-Effexor-Provigil/Adrafanil-Omega 3
> > > But I worry a great deal one of them was right and I've missed the boat entirely, or that I've made a bad choice about the meds, and think about the withdrawal syndromes, and side effects.
> > >
> > > Any thoughts?
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 31, 2002, at 3:28:36
In reply to Last post of it's Kind.., posted by Mr. Scott on January 25, 2002, at 22:34:26
Hey Scott,
One thing is sure - you've got people on this board who care about you and don't care how much you kvetch. We may appear to be faceless cyber-beings but we're all in this together trying to bumble our way through a life that can seem pretty horrifying at times. I think we're all pretty courageous and if I ever get out of this alive, I'm going to be one hot-shit wise compassionate fearless gal. In fact, I'm all that already, I just don't always believe it.Anyhooo, having just spent a long sojourn wandering around the rooms of hell, I decided that maybe my meds were not right and were even contributing to my sickness. I've challenged my diagnosis of unipolar mixed and realized that my illness is made worse by my frenzied howling desperation and utter hatred and fear of 'IT', my depression. This frenzy and total non response to meds and getting worse on SSRI's made me suspect Bipolar II. So I've weaned myself of all SSRI's (they were making me crazed) and am now on Klonopin and lithium only. My body feels an ease and my brain a smoothness I can't even remember. I'm taking Omega-3, good vitamins, lots of magnesium, quarts of water, very minimal alcohol (used to be a problem) and, after forcing myself to move my butt, am actually looking forward to my daily walk. I'm getting better, and the crucial thing for me has been getting off SSRI's and healing my poor frazzled fried nerves. I can't presume that you're situation is like mine, but I can say with assurance that you need to attend to your anxiety first. Pony up on the Klonopin, cut out drinking, treat your body real good, take time to recuperate and heal and then resume your search. I'd also stay away from stimulants. You need some gentleness and care right now. I wish you well. - Barbara
Posted by Mr. Scott on January 31, 2002, at 21:26:37
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by BarbaraCat on January 31, 2002, at 3:28:36
> Hey Scott,
> One thing is sure - you've got people on this board who care about you and don't care how much you kvetch. We may appear to be faceless cyber-beings but we're all in this together trying to bumble our way through a life that can seem pretty horrifying at times. I think we're all pretty courageous and if I ever get out of this alive, I'm going to be one hot-shit wise compassionate fearless gal. In fact, I'm all that already, I just don't always believe it.
>
> Anyhooo, having just spent a long sojourn wandering around the rooms of hell, I decided that maybe my meds were not right and were even contributing to my sickness. I've challenged my diagnosis of unipolar mixed and realized that my illness is made worse by my frenzied howling desperation and utter hatred and fear of 'IT', my depression. This frenzy and total non response to meds and getting worse on SSRI's made me suspect Bipolar II. So I've weaned myself of all SSRI's (they were making me crazed) and am now on Klonopin and lithium only. My body feels an ease and my brain a smoothness I can't even remember. I'm taking Omega-3, good vitamins, lots of magnesium, quarts of water, very minimal alcohol (used to be a problem) and, after forcing myself to move my butt, am actually looking forward to my daily walk. I'm getting better, and the crucial thing for me has been getting off SSRI's and healing my poor frazzled fried nerves. I can't presume that you're situation is like mine, but I can say with assurance that you need to attend to your anxiety first. Pony up on the Klonopin, cut out drinking, treat your body real good, take time to recuperate and heal and then resume your search. I'd also stay away from stimulants. You need some gentleness and care right now. I wish you well. - BarbaraDamn..I wrote a long response to you because I was touched and encouraged by what you said. I was at my brothers house however And his crappy AOL connection cut me off before I could post it. Basically I wanted to say thank you for being there not only on this thread but in general. NO ONE in my daily life knows That I'm someone with an illness that has no clear cause, name, or treatment. My life is all about faking it and pretending I'm okay. The support and mutual exchange I get here from you and others is really Golden.
I am cutting out the drinking of alcohol. Coffee will be more difficult for me to do right now (stimulants). Although I don't know why..It makes me feel like shit mostly. My brain could use some soothing..
Scott
Posted by BarbaraCat on January 31, 2002, at 23:03:27
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » BarbaraCat, posted by Mr. Scott on January 31, 2002, at 21:26:37
Scott,
Maybe keep your coffee for now? Don't want to throw out your pleasurable habits all at once. Magnesium has helped me alot. It calms down that inner anxiety and muscle tension. I get it from a nutrition store and get the most assimilable kind. It's worth trying.I know what you mean about faking it. The funny thing is that most people feel this way and haven't a clue what it's all about. At least we at this site have support and know we're not alone. Wouldn't it be a relief if you could just go to work and say "guys, I am just feeling so freaked out and scared and feel like I'm losing it" and they say, "You are? So am I. Well, let's just help each other through it." Till then, cheers! - Barbara
> Hey Scott,
> > One thing is sure - you've got people on this board who care about you and don't care how much you kvetch. We may appear to be faceless cyber-beings but we're all in this together trying to bumble our way through a life that can seem pretty horrifying at times. I think we're all pretty courageous and if I ever get out of this alive, I'm going to be one hot-shit wise compassionate fearless gal. In fact, I'm all that already, I just don't always believe it.
> >
> > Anyhooo, having just spent a long sojourn wandering around the rooms of hell, I decided that maybe my meds were not right and were even contributing to my sickness. I've challenged my diagnosis of unipolar mixed and realized that my illness is made worse by my frenzied howling desperation and utter hatred and fear of 'IT', my depression. This frenzy and total non response to meds and getting worse on SSRI's made me suspect Bipolar II. So I've weaned myself of all SSRI's (they were making me crazed) and am now on Klonopin and lithium only. My body feels an ease and my brain a smoothness I can't even remember. I'm taking Omega-3, good vitamins, lots of magnesium, quarts of water, very minimal alcohol (used to be a problem) and, after forcing myself to move my butt, am actually looking forward to my daily walk. I'm getting better, and the crucial thing for me has been getting off SSRI's and healing my poor frazzled fried nerves. I can't presume that you're situation is like mine, but I can say with assurance that you need to attend to your anxiety first. Pony up on the Klonopin, cut out drinking, treat your body real good, take time to recuperate and heal and then resume your search. I'd also stay away from stimulants. You need some gentleness and care right now. I wish you well. - Barbara
>
> Damn..I wrote a long response to you because I was touched and encouraged by what you said. I was at my brothers house however And his crappy AOL connection cut me off before I could post it. Basically I wanted to say thank you for being there not only on this thread but in general. NO ONE in my daily life knows That I'm someone with an illness that has no clear cause, name, or treatment. My life is all about faking it and pretending I'm okay. The support and mutual exchange I get here from you and others is really Golden.
>
> I am cutting out the drinking of alcohol. Coffee will be more difficult for me to do right now (stimulants). Although I don't know why..It makes me feel like shit mostly. My brain could use some soothing..
>
> Scott
Posted by IsoM on February 1, 2002, at 1:01:14
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by BarbaraCat on January 31, 2002, at 23:03:27
Like you said, Barbara, magnesium is good. Most of us don't necessarily get enough in our diet on a regualr basis. Scott, to understand what kind, buy the stuff that says "chelated". That's the type that's best assimilated. If you take too much magnesium at one time though, your stools will be very loose. Be warned.
I use a chelated magnesium combined with vitamin B6. This combination of magnesium & B6 is used in many cellular enzymatic functions.
Just though I'd let you know in case you haven't known this before. You can either use the advice or toss it out. Either way, I don't mind.
Posted by BarbaraCat on February 1, 2002, at 2:28:51
In reply to For Scott and BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on February 1, 2002, at 1:01:14
Yes, thanks Iso, I forgot about B6. That is a crucial vitamin in support of the serotonin precursor system, so if there isn't enough B6 it's like running on empty. All the B vitamins are soooo necessary. I'm taking mine in a liquid product cause I hate to think that those expensive pills just end up in the loo.
> Like you said, Barbara, magnesium is good. Most of us don't necessarily get enough in our diet on a regualr basis. Scott, to understand what kind, buy the stuff that says "chelated". That's the type that's best assimilated. If you take too much magnesium at one time though, your stools will be very loose. Be warned.
>
> I use a chelated magnesium combined with vitamin B6. This combination of magnesium & B6 is used in many cellular enzymatic functions.
>
> Just though I'd let you know in case you haven't known this before. You can either use the advice or toss it out. Either way, I don't mind.
Posted by Mr. Scott on February 2, 2002, at 18:11:15
In reply to For Scott and BarbaraCat, posted by IsoM on February 1, 2002, at 1:01:14
Posted by denise528 on August 27, 2002, at 12:13:06
In reply to Re: Last post of it's Kind.. » Mr. Scott, posted by Vince on January 26, 2002, at 14:57:07
.
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