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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Barb on September 10, 1999, at 7:36:33
My spouse and I have had a rocky marriage since early on. But we truly have LOVED eachother and really feel like close friends. But marriage, life and "growing up" finally led me to go on Zoloft. I felt really good, a bit different from my ususal high energy, ambitious self. And I gained weight!
I recently switched to Wellbrutin. I have lost 16 pounds in six weeks, feel balanced like on Zoloft, but I have energy, and my wits about me (if that's possible!
But now I know how unsatisfying my marriage has been for the most part. Year's of counseling have not had permenant results. I am SCARED, needful, and so uncertain...Anybody relate? (Sorry for rambling, but I really like this 'web space'.)
Posted by Barb on September 10, 1999, at 7:54:30
In reply to Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb on September 10, 1999, at 7:36:33
(I'm sure most people son't reply to their own threads, unless MPD is involved, but I wanted to make a correction and mention one more thing.)
We have three wonderful kids and have loved parenthood for the most part. We are pretty good at it so far (but haven't hit the teen years yet).
I can't imagine changing that. Both of us a too good for them all. But I am ready to be HAPPY. (Personal pity party: In some ways life has really sucked for many years, even before marriage. End of pity party)
I guess we are just in a really bad place right now. And I have little hope of it changing. But I like who I am at this point, even if it means a lifetime of low dose AD use.
> My spouse and I have had a rocky marriage since early on. But we truly have LOVED eachother and really feel like close friends. But marriage, life and "growing up" finally led me to go on Zoloft. I felt really good, a bit different from my ususal high energy, ambitious self. And I gained weight!
> I recently switched to Wellbrutin. I have lost 16 pounds in six weeks, feel balanced like on Zoloft, but I have energy, and my wits about me (if that's possible!
> But now I know how unsatisfying my marriage has been for the most part. Year's of counseling have not had permenant results. I am SCARED, needful, and so uncertain...Anybody relate? (Sorry for rambling, but I really like this 'web space'.)
Posted by jamie on September 10, 1999, at 9:43:24
In reply to Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb on September 10, 1999, at 7:36:33
That's very good news that the meds are working for you. Depending on whether someone is depressed or not depressed, the world sure looks totally different doesn't it? I fall into the Dr Laura camp on marriage...it's a committment and requires a romantic tune-up now and then. The kids are most important. More important than ourselves. They need a mommy and a daddy. Look around and see how the world has deteriorated from broken marriages. Maybe start dating each other again like in the old days. Here's a method my counselor gave me which is very helpful for spouses during and after depression...have each spouse make a list of say 10 trivial things they like the other to do for them. Maybe it's a surprise hug while doing dishes. Maybe it's 10 minutes of let-me-chat about my day and you just listen. Kiss me by surprise. Tell me how handsome I am today. Take me to dinner with no kids. Or whatever. I'm sure both of you can come up with your own wish lists. Then, each person has to choose at random from the other person's list and fulfill the wish of the other person. One or two a day each. After a week, make a new list. This method has three purposes...1) get to know each other better 2) encourage bonding and loving and respect 3) distract from other problems. The net result is a solid happy relationship. Just an idea. My counselor uses it a lot and it sure helped me. Marriages I think need adjustment during depression and then again after.
Posted by Dee on September 10, 1999, at 12:21:36
In reply to Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb on September 10, 1999, at 7:36:33
Hello Barb,
I can certainly relate, and I think most of us on this board can. Living with these conditions is a
hard battle we have to fight every hour of every day. What would be more natural than
sometimes to get so tired, tired that we just want a break. We want to be happy just for a few
minutes, we want to just be an feel loved and safe, to leave the battle even if it is just for a
moment.We just cannot give up. Trust me, when you continue taking care of yourself and your family,
you will eventually get that break.
I understand that it is fairly common to get to this space of tiredness, frustration, hopelessness,
even anger when we are in the process of changing medication. I remember when I was there
last time, and it did seem like a no way out situation. I was so down I couldn't talk to anyone -
luckily I had this board to come to, so I could discharge some of my despair typing messages,
like you are doing. Isn't it great to have this resource.When I go to the space when I feel I just want to give up, I keep saying to myself that it may well
feel overwhelming but my feelings are not facts. Even though there seems to be no end to it, the
fact is: It Will Pass! And I have been right every time so far.You have put in a tremendous effort to take care of yourself. Continue to do so, talk to your
doctor and your therapist about these concerns, and keep reaching out for advise and support.
That way you can make informed decisions concerning your well being.
I firmly believe that the best thing we ( or anybody, for that matter) can do to take care of our
families and those we love is to take care of ourselves.As far as rocky marriage, I am reading a book that answers many of the questions I think we all
ask: How two people get attracted to each other, why does the communication fail in most
relationships, and what can we do to change that. It is called ‘My Lover, My Self’ by David
Kantor, Ph. D. I has helped me a lot to understand myself in a relationship.I have no answers, you know, and I am not trying to pretending to have any. But we’ll all be
here when you need someone to talk (write) to.Lots of Love, and remember: This Will Pass
Dee
Posted by Barb, again on September 10, 1999, at 21:04:01
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Dee on September 10, 1999, at 12:21:36
God, how I wish it were that simple! Believe me, two head over heels in love high school sweethears who thought we'd be together FOREVER (both sets of parents never divorced!) but have since gone to HELL and back no less (perhaps more) than five times in fourteen years need some serious soul searching.
And I am not talking about your occasional argument ending with one of us spending a night on the couch.
>Details would take ten pages, but would clarify alot. All I can say briefly is that I have always been a secure person. In the past eight years I have learned the truly peaceful, energizing truth about looking out for my personal needs physically and otherwise while laboring endlessly for the good of my family.
I know I am not at a post depression spot. I am not in or coming out of a hell-and-back crisis. I am happier with myself than I have been in at least two years.
One counselor I saw, a truly serious "Dr Laura" type (Christian too), asked me at one point, in writing, to rate (1-10) satisfaction levels of various areas of my life-marriage, work, spiritual, sexual, etc. I wish overall I could give marriage more than a 6 or at best 7. At times (like birth of kids and Hawaii) I'd rate it 100+!!! But those times have been so few and far between. I sure have questions at this point. If everything is great and were happy, and we still can't fulfill eachothers needs, I wonder if we ever can.
Hello Barb,
>
> I can certainly relate, and I think most of us on this board can. Living with these conditions is a
> hard battle we have to fight every hour of every day. What would be more natural than
> sometimes to get so tired, tired that we just want a break. We want to be happy just for a few
> minutes, we want to just be an feel loved and safe, to leave the battle even if it is just for a
> moment.
>
> We just cannot give up. Trust me, when you continue taking care of yourself and your family,
> you will eventually get that break.
> I understand that it is fairly common to get to this space of tiredness, frustration, hopelessness,
> even anger when we are in the process of changing medication. I remember when I was there
> last time, and it did seem like a no way out situation. I was so down I couldn't talk to anyone -
> luckily I had this board to come to, so I could discharge some of my despair typing messages,
> like you are doing. Isn't it great to have this resource.
>
> When I go to the space when I feel I just want to give up, I keep saying to myself that it may well
> feel overwhelming but my feelings are not facts. Even though there seems to be no end to it, the
> fact is: It Will Pass! And I have been right every time so far.
>
> You have put in a tremendous effort to take care of yourself. Continue to do so, talk to your
> doctor and your therapist about these concerns, and keep reaching out for advise and support.
> That way you can make informed decisions concerning your well being.
> I firmly believe that the best thing we ( or anybody, for that matter) can do to take care of our
> families and those we love is to take care of ourselves.
>
> As far as rocky marriage, I am reading a book that answers many of the questions I think we all
> ask: How two people get attracted to each other, why does the communication fail in most
> relationships, and what can we do to change that. It is called ‘My Lover, My Self’ by David
> Kantor, Ph. D. I has helped me a lot to understand myself in a relationship.
>
> I have no answers, you know, and I am not trying to pretending to have any. But we’ll all be
> here when you need someone to talk (write) to.
>
> Lots of Love, and remember: This Will Pass
>
> Dee
Posted by Bob on September 11, 1999, at 15:46:34
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb, again on September 10, 1999, at 21:04:01
Jamie, I really like the wish-list idea. It gets at the "little things". It's so easy to spot the big issues ... meanwhile, you get nickle and dimed to death by stuff just barely above our notice.
Barb, I can't give any good advice on marriage, given my role models and my success at avoiding it so far, but I do have to ask one question:
Is your husband as depressed as you?
okay, TWO questions:
Do you think he might benefit from medication?
My older brother (the one stuck holding the keel of the boat, for those who caught that story), just got divorced from his second wife about two months ago. He had his three kids from his first marriage all summer (mom lives in VA, dad in MI), and after the divorce (to #2) he had to takes his kids back. He wound up e-mailing me about having some "very bad thoughts" a few days later and asked me for help. I wish I had the $$ to fly to him from NYC, but I did talk him into getting to his GP to get a referral (don't you LOVE HMO's 8^P )for a pdoc. Instead, his GP prescribed celexa, xanax, and after finding his thyroid levels were way down, took him of the xanax but got him some thyroid meds.
Moral of the story:After hearing this news, EX#2 told him she's gone through similar straights and didn't think about what he might be going through. He's responding to the meds, and they're trying to work things out. Sure, they've got other problems to work out, but those are problems between them, not a problem within one of them that disrupts the relationship.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Barb on September 12, 1999, at 0:02:50
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Bob on September 11, 1999, at 15:46:34
> Bob,
VERY GOOD questions!! I told hubby at the time that the reason I was going on Zoloft was because HE needed to be on it! He is a very melancholy type personality, an artist, and has MANY mild symptoms of depression, but has so far refused to face reality. He is also VERY passive agressive, which means among other things, he wants to blame me for all of our struggles. I will take responsibility for many of them, because I came into the marriage with LOTS of baggage, and much of it got really "Hindinburg-ish" during the past five years. But, it's apparent to me, now that I have TRULY resolved MANY past issues, that my stuff is only part of the equation. I wish I had the hope and stick to it attitude, but I AM READY after 30 years of pain, to LIVE and enjoy LIVING! With or without meds, I do NOT want to be surviving just by popping my proverbial "lobotomy in a pill" (my pet name for zoloft).I have decided to wait until I feel I can go off Wellbutrin for a while to make a permanent decision, because I feel more irratible than usual. But I will be honest. I feel GOOD and not irrational. I hope I can face things objectively. I may have to make some hard decisions down the road. Thanks for responding. And listening to me ramble. Right now I have no one to really hash things out with, least of which is my extended family. Bye
Jamie, I really like the wish-list idea. It gets at the "little things". It's so easy to spot the big issues ... meanwhile, you get nickle and dimed to death by stuff just barely above our notice.
>
> Barb, I can't give any good advice on marriage, given my role models and my success at avoiding it so far, but I do have to ask one question:
>
> Is your husband as depressed as you?
>
> okay, TWO questions:
>
> Do you think he might benefit from medication?
>
> My older brother (the one stuck holding the keel of the boat, for those who caught that story), just got divorced from his second wife about two months ago. He had his three kids from his first marriage all summer (mom lives in VA, dad in MI), and after the divorce (to #2) he had to takes his kids back. He wound up e-mailing me about having some "very bad thoughts" a few days later and asked me for help. I wish I had the $$ to fly to him from NYC, but I did talk him into getting to his GP to get a referral (don't you LOVE HMO's 8^P )for a pdoc. Instead, his GP prescribed celexa, xanax, and after finding his thyroid levels were way down, took him of the xanax but got him some thyroid meds.
>
> Moral of the story:After hearing this news, EX#2 told him she's gone through similar straights and didn't think about what he might be going through. He's responding to the meds, and they're trying to work things out. Sure, they've got other problems to work out, but those are problems between them, not a problem within one of them that disrupts the relationship.
>
> Cheers,
> Bob
Posted by Bob on September 12, 1999, at 11:19:29
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb on September 12, 1999, at 0:02:50
Geez! You should have said he was an artist! or did you earlier? ;^) I've read I don't know how many times about how artists and comedians feel they "lose their muse" if they get rid of their depression. I must admit that some of the poems I've written just came out all at once in response to some depressive episode, but I've also been inspired once or twice by acute episodes of joy. I mean, art's not worth cutting your ear off for.
Barb, I'm happy for you to hear that you have this sense of conviction about your decision--that you believe it to be sound and your best course. Seeing what my brother has gone through in his two divorces, I know how family, friends, and co-workers can drag your decision through the mud ... just remember that none of them know the whole story as you do.
A lot of people ("experts" and non-experts alike) advise against making such important decisions while you're depressed. So what are those of us who are chronically depressed supposed to do, particularly when the status quo is making matters worse, blocking our way to a healthier, happier life? Sit in the mud and pretend we're enjoying it?
In the past six years or so, I've had to make a series of tough choices wrt my career -- changing grad school mentors, leaving before finishing my dissertation, leaving my academic job for the non-profit sector, and now leaving my current job for one in a NP that's more of an educational think tank. Every time, there's someone around to say it's a mistake, to say that I'm running away from my problems. But to me, each time it feels like I'm jumping out of a plane, freefalling over some gorgeous landscape, reveling in the freedom of it ... and my "parachute"-- my confidence in a decision well considered and weighed -- has opened every time.
Cheers,
Bob
Posted by Terri on September 13, 1999, at 21:34:15
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Barb on September 12, 1999, at 0:02:50
Hi Barb,
I am proud of your courage, I too want to LIVE and be HAPPY. I have been married 15 years to a vietnam veteran, and When my stress level got out of control, I am the one who ended up with mental illness's and alot of depression. He makes fun of me and called me CRAZY, and yells at me on a daily basis.
I recently went outside and fell and broke my ankle, He stood there and made me crawl into the house by myself. He wanted to go out for coffee with his friends, so he left. I called the resteraunt 2 hours later and told him I needed X-rays, and he hung up on me. Thats his way of saying " I'm coming, but now I have something else to bitch about".
With the bones just set and my first hour in a cast he ordered me to get him this and that. I told him to PISS OFF and get it himself.
He calls me a druggy because I need meds for depression.
Well, I take care of the bills, and this coming summer I will have enough money put back to move out. I've had enough too.
Sorry to ramble.
Terri
Posted by Terri on September 13, 1999, at 21:55:24
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Terri on September 13, 1999, at 21:34:15
>
> Hi Barb,
> I am proud of your courage, I too want to LIVE and be HAPPY. I have been married 15 years to a vietnam veteran, and When my stress level got out of control, I am the one who ended up with mental illness's and alot of depression. He makes fun of me and called me CRAZY, and yells at me on a daily basis.
> I recently went outside and fell and broke my ankle, He stood there and made me crawl into the house by myself. He wanted to go out for coffee with his friends, so he left. I called the resteraunt 2 hours later and told him I needed X-rays, and he hung up on me. Thats his way of saying " I'm coming, but now I have something else to bitch about".
> With the bones just set and my first hour in a cast he ordered me to get him this and that. I told him to PISS OFF and get it himself.
> He calls me a druggy because I need meds for depression.
> Well, I take care of the bills, and this coming summer I will have enough money put back to move out. I've had enough too.
> Sorry to ramble.
> TerriP.S. I forgot to mention. Once I get out on my own, I am sueing my husband for verbal & mental abuse. and try to get alimoney. I have doctors tell me, that I will never get better until I leave him, as well as 2 Therapist who will go to court with me.
Posted by Barb on September 14, 1999, at 11:16:44
In reply to Re: Marital strife to AD's to NOW I WANT OUT! SOS!!, posted by Terri on September 13, 1999, at 21:34:15
>
Terri, I am not sure what I am mustering is courage, but I can certainly say NOTHING would have kept me in an ABUSIVE relationship. You sound like you have been treated like less than a person (perhaps less than a house pet) for many years. I used to be an "until death do us part" fanatic, but I realize now there are more than one kind of death. No human being ever deserves or easily survives being yelled at everyday, belittled, verbally assaulted, and dehumanized. That's the stuff wars are made of, and I am sorry your husband brought so much of it home to your marriage. He'll survive without you. You may not if you stay. Keep your plans. Good luck.
Posted by julep on September 15, 1999, at 13:43:48
In reply to No doubt, Terri, GO!, posted by Barb on September 14, 1999, at 11:16:44
Terri - I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
If you can get out sooner - GO.
I was in an abusive situation with my first marriage, so I know firsthand what hell it can be.
Please remember that there are folks who care.
This is the end of the thread.
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