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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 26. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 13:41:33
Okay, so that makes sense I guess. BUt nothing came up yesterday that I didn't already know, just I had to speak things. And I asked her not to refer to the rapes anymore as rapes, I said, Please don't call them rapes, call them ... and any word she came up with was inadequate, not right, until I told her to call them incidents. Incidents, that's what they were, I said. And we don't really think it's necessary to re-live any of it, just revisit the feeling, you know only the one feeling that causes me distress. But I can control this anxiety, because I can't live with it and I can't act it out and nobody will hold me, there's nobody who will hold me, I have nowhere to go, nowhere is safe. I have to be safe inside, within myself I have to find a safe place because he doesn't love me, he doesn't care about me, he's not there and I know that and I understand that but I don't, you know, I don't know how to change any of it or make any of it any different than it is, it takes two people you can't have only one person wanting something, that's not healthy, it's not good at all. I need to get a lid on my mind. Close it, shut everything down, deal only with what's in front of me. Tonight we get told where our practicums will be.
Posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 13:48:10
In reply to Yesterday Session, Today Anxiety, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 13:41:33
Sssshhh. It's okay. I'm okay. Please. Sssshhhhh.
Posted by pinkeye on March 17, 2005, at 13:53:13
In reply to Yesterday Session, Today Anxiety, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 13:41:33
It is really hard to feel safe just by ourselves - within us. I think the CBT therapists who teach that, do a mistake of asking too much of their patients. It is humanly impossible for anyone to feel an end in themselves, and feel completely secure and undisturbed.
What they should be teaching instead is, that we should feel safe enough in us so that, we will try to fill the need by what is available to us instead of what is not available to us. They should be telling us not to fill the need just by ourselves, but to seek to fill it with more plausible avenues. Like seek out other friends, other members of family, seek out God, establish a higher goal for ourselves, listen to good music, see inspiring movies, be there for the society, family etc.
It is wrong to ask of people to kind of be able to exist in vaccum and just by themselves.
Posted by pinkeye on March 17, 2005, at 13:58:45
In reply to Pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 13:48:10
What does that mean?
Posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:03:10
In reply to Re: Pinkeye » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 17, 2005, at 13:58:45
It meant that I was worried you'd be worried about me and feel like you had to try and help me, I don't want you to feel that way, that's all. I want you to just be thinking about you, not worry about anybody else, I suppose. Anyway, you know what? What I did today was, I went to my last place of work to pay a bill, and I ended up being waylaid by people who loved me and missed me and it was so lovely, so really lovely and it helped to fill me up. I'm gassed up a bit, tanked up with a titch of fuel for a while. Thank you for being here for me, Pinkeye. You're so sweet.
Posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:17:37
In reply to Re: Pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:03:10
Where do you suppose a T would go to get that feeling of positive affirmation, love and acceptance? I can get it from my friends at work because they're the ones I spend the most time with.. so can a T get it from his clients? Oh, the value of a T who knows when to give a good hug cannot be underestimated, methinks. It's a matter of allowing yourself to receive as well as to give, and it's more than money because money is never ever enough. Hmm. Does this mean that T's have to work at developing their friendships outside of the workplace? So a T who is alone in his own little environment, seeing clients come in and go out several days a week, completely (supposedly, sometimes, I'm sure) focussed one one or two other people for an hour at a time, is that T likely to have to work harder outside the office as well, to maintain his mental health through his relationships with others? Close ones, I mean. Immediate family comes to mind, but it isn't the same thing to me. My family never could provide me with the sense of worldly acceptance that loving and allowing myself to be loved by others, gives me daily. Daily. Every day, if I don't go out those doors and actively seek out love, it doesn't happen. And when I do seek it out and I get it, when I seek it I get it every time because I know where to go now, and where not to go. What to do, how to be, how to feel and think and act. And it's wonderful and I'm never letting it go. Ever. Ever again.
Posted by annierose on March 17, 2005, at 18:10:11
In reply to Where do Therapists Get Tanked Up?, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:17:37
It is certainly a difficult job. I know I wouldn't have the personal strength to endure hearing about so much pain, and take so much "stuff" from their clients (i.e. "I quit", "I hate you", "I love you", etc.) I'm glad you are connecting so well with your new therapists.
Annierose
Posted by pinkeye on March 17, 2005, at 18:51:05
In reply to Re: Pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:03:10
:-). Thanks. I wish I could tell my husband that I am sweet :-)
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 17, 2005, at 23:06:13
In reply to Where do Therapists Get Tanked Up?, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 16:17:37
T's go to their own T's! Speaking as a T-in-training, I know that's what I do! :)
EE
> Where do you suppose a T would go to get that feeling of positive affirmation, love and acceptance? I can get it from my friends at work because they're the ones I spend the most time with.. so can a T get it from his clients? Oh, the value of a T who knows when to give a good hug cannot be underestimated, methinks. It's a matter of allowing yourself to receive as well as to give, and it's more than money because money is never ever enough. Hmm. Does this mean that T's have to work at developing their friendships outside of the workplace? So a T who is alone in his own little environment, seeing clients come in and go out several days a week, completely (supposedly, sometimes, I'm sure) focussed one one or two other people for an hour at a time, is that T likely to have to work harder outside the office as well, to maintain his mental health through his relationships with others? Close ones, I mean. Immediate family comes to mind, but it isn't the same thing to me. My family never could provide me with the sense of worldly acceptance that loving and allowing myself to be loved by others, gives me daily. Daily. Every day, if I don't go out those doors and actively seek out love, it doesn't happen. And when I do seek it out and I get it, when I seek it I get it every time because I know where to go now, and where not to go. What to do, how to be, how to feel and think and act. And it's wonderful and I'm never letting it go. Ever. Ever again.
Posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 23:23:05
In reply to Re: Where do Therapists Get Tanked Up?, posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 17, 2005, at 23:06:13
Well since my last T said he never saw anybody, that's not always accurate, unless he was lying, which I believe he did do at times.. so there you go.
Posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 0:09:52
In reply to Re: Where do Therapists Get Tanked Up?, posted by Susan47 on March 17, 2005, at 23:23:05
Last year I would not have survived this anxiety. Last year I would have been a mess, crying a lot, making endless phone calls, trying to make contact with my therapist who didn't give a damn to put himself out for me. And today, the anxiety was fierce, and I felt alone and frightened and needful, but I survived.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 18, 2005, at 0:47:18
In reply to So Much Anxiety, today, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 0:09:52
>>And today, the anxiety was fierce, and I felt alone and frightened and needful, but I survived.
Good. That's so good. It's hard as h*ll, I know. It's been more than 2 years since I've really suffered with anxiety that way. For me, it's been pretty much replaced by a scared > lonely > numb...oops, now we're depressed cycle. Loads of fun, that is. But oh, how I do remember anxiety. To the point you feel you'll crawl out of your skin, and your mind is just not your own because any techniques don't work for long...
But then, somehow, we get past, through, around, over, under it! And it CAN be done alone, if need be. That part is an awesome feeling, I remember. Susan, you really must quit growing and changing into an even more resilient and powerful woman, right here on Babble! Because you're inspiring me, and gosh, then I may have to actually work at overcoming my own stuff....darn it...
Posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 9:27:28
In reply to Re: So Much Anxiety, today » Susan47, posted by 10derHeart on March 18, 2005, at 0:47:18
Wow, thank you 10derheart. Don't say that too much because it's a bit scary, you know, feeling like maybe I can't be the person I want to be. Every moment contains its own world of emotion, an entire lifetime is contained in every moment you live. It's your life. Yours. We're so lucky to have healthy minds, you know, no matter what we've gone through we're all here, everyone posting and reading here is a Survivor, a person with Incredible Strength.
Posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 12:57:10
In reply to Re: So Much Anxiety, today » 10derHeart, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 9:27:28
My anxiety is gone. Gone. I hope, please, let that last. I had to push his boundaries once again, yet AGAIN, damn it, for him to realize how much I needed these notes and letters back in my possession. How much easier if I hadn't had to communicate to him my distress, my anxiety... How I needed to have what he touched, once again in my hands. Because I don't feel I was ever really respected, especially when I was at my weakest ... so much of the time. So weak. Him, unable to hold, unavailable because I was too challenging, too much. I've always been a challenge, to myself more than anybody.
I don't know what he thinks of me,
don't know what he thought,
can't care.BUT I do know this.
He returned my notes and letters
because I asked him to.
He heard that.
Eventually, he did hear that.
And I love that he heard it.
And I love that he helped me.But listen to this, this is really really funny. One of my notes says this, that "we" did good "work" "together". All in one go, like that, but see how I've separated out the words here with quotation marks. To emphasize that there was never a we who worked together. I was so delusional at times in my desire to keep this free-based love real.
It was a blocked relationship from the very beginning, first sight for me, because I went, ah-HAH, THIS is what I've always been looking for!!! He was safe, he was beautiful to watch, lovely to listen to, "caring" in the context of that relationship and THAT's where I went psycho. It was a relationship dependent on too many things, dependent on money, social structure, need to protect oneself from "harm" ... none of those issues had been approached before I began to feel things that I'd forgotten were possible.. wonderful, life-giving feelings... the trust hadn't been built yet... the trust that he would be there for me with the agreement that I would be there for myself as soon as the time was right. It was not concern I saw on his face one morning, it was fear.
But it's not my shame, not anymore. I'm not living with that anymore.
Posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 13:07:15
In reply to Dissipated, into the Ethereal, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 12:57:10
Well, now, it seems a good thing I asked for those things back, because I can see now, yes I can see clearly where my letters and notes were asking for help, sheesh, but they're so roundabout, there's nothing concrete in them, nobody I mean, who could get a fix on somebody with self-esteem that was so BAD??? I was absolutely pathetic in my attempts to have him support me. Absolutely pathetic. Oh, man. Poor, poor me. I had no idea, honestly, I had no idea how it all sounded. It was just stuff I had to say, stuff that made me feel relief when put down and away. But it probably would've been better if he'd left them all unread. I think so, for him, you know, because wow, he could never charge enough money for accepting all those silly notes and letters.
But I can't dislike myself, because I'm not that person. I'm this person. This person is STAYING damn it. NOW DO YOUR HOMEWORK SUSAN!!!!!!
Posted by 10derHeart on March 18, 2005, at 13:37:04
In reply to Re: So Much Anxiety, today » 10derHeart, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 9:27:28
> Wow, thank you 10derheart. Don't say that too much because it's a bit scary, you know, feeling like maybe I can't be the person I want to be.
You're welcome...I think, but....did I say or do or imply something that makes you feel like you "can't be the person that you want to be?" I wouldn't mean to do that...I'm sorry - maybe I'm just unusally dense today...???PS - And I'm GLAD you got your notes/letters back. That seems like the right thing for him to have done. Just hope looking through them doesn't trigger off anything too intense...take care...
Posted by pinkeye on March 18, 2005, at 14:08:09
In reply to Re: Dissipated, into the Ethereal, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 13:07:15
For me, whenever I tend to think too much about my ex T or whoever in my life or about myself, I try to remember that the world consists of more than just one or two people. And that removes my anxiety a lot. I go and read something more general - like social issues or world news or issues in philosophy etc. That helps me put my own miniature self in perspective a lot and immediately relieves my anxiety. Maximising our person self is what leads us to anxiety, depression etc. Not the only thing, but it is a major siginificant contributing factor. Once you have a higher goal in life - either in God or family or your kids or social causes, lots of the mental health related issues dissipate.
Posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 15:50:28
In reply to Re: Dissipated, into the Ethereal » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 18, 2005, at 14:08:09
Well you see, what you say here now, is what I was thinking about today. That I have this mis-developed personality, I HAD it, because I took on this importance in the life of my father, importance he had no business giving me. I became the focus, the center of his feelings about himself. So of course, everything I said, every look I gave, every move I made, had meaning for him. God, I remember telling C that Everything Has Meaning, from the colour of my socks to...whatever. You know? I remember saying that, and wondering why it felt so true, when I didn't really want things to be that way for me. Because of course, it was true, it was true for my father about me. Oh man. So children like me, we grow up thinking we're the center of the universe, KNOWING intellectually, because we're smart, you and I, knowing that of COURSE we're not, but not emotionally having ever developed the capacity to feel that we're a small, teeny part of everything, everything that happens is not because of something WE personally have done ...
it's a very twisted perception to have, it develops illness. My illness, the one I had, and am learning to outgrow. Because I read through my letters, and I realized that this was important to me at a time in my life, it has no more hold over me, and during it all, during all of it, the person I was sending these letters to was having lunch, and going to the bathroom, and picking up his kids from school, and picking his nose or whatever. You know? And what I was going through was always mine, it was mine alone, the glory and the wonder and the pain of it and the beauty and everything, it was always inside me, it's always been there, it was built up over years of suppression. I own all the beauty in my mind. And no, I'm not feeling manic or super-powerful or intelligent or rich or anything else. I'm just me, Susan, born into myself.
Posted by pinkeye on March 18, 2005, at 16:25:24
In reply to Re: Dissipated, into the Ethereal » pinkeye, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 15:50:28
I am not sure about your history with your father, but I can understand the feelings. Because I had a very powerful relationship with my father, and in a way, I grew up to be mostly to be his mirror and did everything he wanted to do in his life, all my likings were my father's likings etc. And it suppressed a lot of things for me. And I, in a way, became the emotional support and companion for my father also. All this gave me the power of being in the center, and everything in my life also revolved unconsciously about my father - I would like the same movies he liked, same actors, same foods, etc etc. I had a hard time breaking up from it and defining my own individuality. But thankfully for me, I moved out of my home 10 years back and have been meeting a lot of people and living away from home by myself, and that has helped me immensely in defining who I am for myself, what I like, what I don't like etc. And the final touch came from my ex therapist. It helped me not only grow intellectually, but emotionally as well.
So in short, what I want to say to you is, whatever your father did or did not do for you, did give or did not give, it is probably time to let go of it, and grow up to be yourself. All of us do inherit lots of things from parents, certain likings and dislikings, but we need to extend that and find things which we like for ourselves and what we want to be after a certain point.
Also maybe you can read one of my posts above for Tamar, if you wish - in her thread about her last visit with her therapist. I have said soemthings which was told to me by my new T, and I think it might help you as well, since you also seem to have had a little confusing relationship with your dad. IT might help you in overcoming your attraction to your ex T.
Posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 14:37:43
In reply to Dissipated, into the Ethereal, posted by Susan47 on March 18, 2005, at 12:57:10
Folded I think. Not arms, deliberately not arms, just the hands. And he watched. Carefully. Quietly, eyes speaking volumes. Voluminous eyes. Beautiful, beautiful man, wearing fuschia. The most beautiful, male fuschia; I was enchanted. And I raved, nerves exposed, pain at the fore.. and he had the courage to blush. Did he allow that, was it really courage? Or was it, as so much is, beyond his control? It was honest, a moment of honesty, a moment of bareness, naked emotion; I bared myself, laid myself open, but he did not feast. He gently folded me up, so that I could sleep that night.
I love you. You are more beautiful than you know.
Posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 15:03:30
In reply to He Stood with hands in front, posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 14:37:43
No, No, no he is not beautiful, nor kind. He hurt me, he terminated me, and he didn't tell me it wasn't my fault, not until I begged him to tell me that.
He was horrible, he was very very cruel. He was a very cruel man to me. He was hurtful, how could I love someone who hurt me so much, seemingly innocently?????
Posted by pinkeye on March 25, 2005, at 15:32:13
In reply to Re: He Stood with hands in front, posted by Susan47 on March 25, 2005, at 15:03:30
You went to see him again? I think you are making it difficult for him Susan. If you keep pushing him up against a wall, he is not going to like it. And it will leave him with no option other than to restrict himself with you. Don't bring things to the point where he has to hurt you.
Posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:27:17
In reply to Re: He Stood with hands in front » Susan47, posted by pinkeye on March 25, 2005, at 15:32:13
Hmm. Too late.
He's already restricted himself with me.
He's already hurt me. Sigh. I wish I truly understood. Heavy sigh.
Posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 13:43:52
In reply to Re: He Stood with hands in front, posted by Susan47 on March 30, 2005, at 11:27:17
I do understand, really. I do. I'm another complicated problem. Too much for someone who just wants to be left to enjoy life on his own terms. I don't know why I ever thought I meant anything, except, oh yes, it was to feel like I wanted to survive living, I made him so incredibly important because I really, deep inside, wanted to be alive, to live, and he somehow just had the ability to make me feel that. So that must've felt good, to him. But I mean, how ugly can behaviour get when it's so self-eradicating? Here, let me erase myself.
NO!!!
Posted by sunny10 on March 31, 2005, at 15:00:19
In reply to Re: He Stood with hands in front, posted by Susan47 on March 31, 2005, at 13:43:52
Susan, you're beating yourself up again and hurting both of us...
I love you, does that help you know you're alive?
Does the fact that you have wants and desires and habits and a great personality and...- gosh, everything else I don't have time to write while I'm at work- make you realize that you are alive without his opinion of you, whether it's good or bad? Does he have to pay attention to you for you to feel alive? NO, you were alive and lively before you evr met him, and will be again...
I love you, sweets...
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