Posted by Tamar on September 5, 2005, at 13:10:26
In reply to Re: Sorting stuff out, posted by daisym on September 4, 2005, at 20:52:08
> Oh, I remember that so well. That’s exactly how I used to describe it: the words disappear.
>
> ***Did you ever find a way to make it stop happening?Actually, yeah! I realised that whenever it happened I was looking down and to my right, at the carpet next to the wall. And I tended to focus on the carpet and let the words drift away; not on purpose, but it just kind of happened, usually when I felt embarrassed or afraid. So once I realised it was happening I wouldn’t let myself look down there. If my gaze shifted to that spot I made a conscious effort to look at my therapist’s face again, and he was always waiting quietly for me to come back. Somehow, looking at his face was reassuring when I was feeling lost for words, and I started to be able to talk again.
> ***I thought he was going somewhere else. I hate to be wrong. But I think mostly why I got upset was because my first reaction was to say, "oh, are you going to visit family?" and my next reaction was - I'm not allowed (or supposed to) ask that. And the realization (again) that I'm not part of his "real" life felt like a slap. The anger is at myself for wanting something I can't have. I know better than this!
Yeah, I bit my tongue all the time rather than ask questions I wasn’t ‘supposed’ to ask. The funny thing was, on the two occasions I actually asked him anything, he answered me. So I guess I was wrong to think that I wasn’t supposed to ask. And yeah, knowing we’re not part of their real lives feels like a slap, but sometimes I think we slap ourselves, whereas if we just asked what we wanted to know it would be easier.
> ***The part I haven't told him yet is that I have this whole fantasy that he can teach me that sex can be gentle and special and that it can feel safe and good. Right now it isn't any of those things for me.
I had (have) that fantasy too. And in a way my therapist did teach me that, although through therapy rather than by example! But I know my situation was not the same as yours is. Nevertheless, I think there are probably ways in which talking about this fantasy could be useful (even if it’s embarrassing). To me, my therapist was the embodiment of safety, so for me it made sense that I wanted ‘safe sex’ with him in a way that I couldn’t imagine it being safe with anyone else. Something that helped me was having non-sexual fantasies about my therapist while I was having sex with my husband (I know how weird that sounds!). I imagined my therapist was there, holding my hand and reminding me to stay in the present. Just the idea of him made it easier for me.
> ***And yes, I want to be the other half of something special. I'm tired of being lonely. I wish he hadn't shown me possibilities. I think it is too late for me to find this kind of a relationship. I never even knew I wanted it. It makes me very sad. And I'm very aware of my physical flaws, in a way that I haven't been since I was a teenager. He has this theory that I never gave myself over to these intense feelings, even as a teen, so in many ways I'm experiencing an adolescent crush in all its painful intensity. He said this in a way that didn't feel like a put down but rather something else I missed.
I don’t think it’s ever too late to find the kind of relationship you want. It might be difficult to find it in your marriage at this stage, though probably not impossible. And as for physical ‘flaws’… sometimes those are the very things that people are attracted to, simply because they’re part of you. I can see how missing out on adolescent intensity can be something that might lead to intense feelings now, but to be honest I think these intense feelings are inevitable because of the sense of relief at being able to trust someone with this stuff after such a long time.
> I’m glad he was understanding. I think he can hear anything you have to say. Wow, running into her must have been tough. If that had been me, I would have spent hours thinking about me and her.
>
> ***OF COURSE I DID. She is everything I'm not, thin, pretty, tallish (though I think that was the shoes).Well, with the exception of Rod Stewart, men tend to like all different kinds of women. Being physically different from someone’s wife doesn’t mean you’re unattractive to him!
> ***She was dressed really cute and the worst part was that she look so happy when she greeted her client. It was that happiness that did me in. The comparison for me was the doom and gloom I bring into the room with me and the sunshine she brought with her. And this confused me even further because I asked myself what I thought I was doing, comparing us. Did I want him with an unattractive, unhappy person? I have no answer for this.
If you saw her greeting a client, then you saw her professional persona. I’m sure that in real life she’s just as capable of doom and gloom as the next person. And of course ‘doom and gloom’ does not in any way sum up who you are. You’re interesting, intelligent, articulate, successful and loving. Who wouldn’t want that in a relationship (even a therapeutic relationship)?
> ***I did not tell him ANY of this. He's a guy, he wouldn't get it.
Don’t be too sure! Guys get jealous too. And I think any sensitive therapist would understand that a client might compare herself with his wife.
> It makes sense to me. It sounds as if you’re worried that your honesty could push him away from you. However, I don’t think it will push him away. I suspect that instead it will help the connection between you.
>
> ***I hope you are right. It feels a little like it is getting in the way of what we should be working on. He would argue with this I'm sure.I think it’s probably part of what you need to be working on, because it indicates all kinds of themes that connect with the ‘real’ issues. And I really do think that talking about the relationship is part of the work. I wish I’d been in the kind of therapy that encouraged it more. I had to do it in a fairly roundabout way. I wish now I’d had what it takes to be more explicit about those feelings.
> I think it’s probably just the opposite. I suspect that telling him all this stuff consolidates your therapeutic relationship, and that he feels glad and happy to be working with someone who is able to make so much progress. And I bet your ability to be so honest gives him a sense of satisfaction. I think good therapists thrive on this kind of honesty; I’m sure he feels privileged to work with you.
>
> ***How do you ask this without it sounding very narcissistic? I've told him I want to be special. Last week we talked about how hard it was for me to be just one of many clients. He said we have a unique and special relationship. I said that sounds like the text book answer they must be taught in school. I make it hard for him to reassure me in this area. Which makes me wonder what I'm wanting from him.Maybe what you want is more reassurance. Maybe you need to hear it hundreds of times to be sure it’s genuine. I don’t think it’s narcissistic to ask about this kind of thing. I suppose you can ask how he feels about working with you, or ask what he gets out of doing this kind of work with people like you, or ask what aspects of your relationship with him are valuable to him. I think these are legitimate questions. Perhaps you can phrase it in a way that frames the question as a question about his job satisfaction, but there’s no doubt that the answer he gives will say something about the relationship with you (and maybe he’ll pick up on that possibility, which is no bad thing). I know it’s hard to ask. But I think not asking means we ask ourselves in our imaginations and come up with horrible answers. Well, I do that anyway.
> Argh! If by ‘rejected out loud’ you mean a fear that he might not be able to handle your feelings, then I suspect the fear is unfounded. But if by ‘rejected out loud’ you mean a fear that he won’t ever want a relationship with you like he has with his wife, then I suspect he will be able to reassure you without rejecting you.
>
> ***Again, I think I make it hard for him to do this. Mostly I think I'm looking at the emptiness in my marriage and feeling very sad about it all. I think it ended when we weren't looking and I have no idea if we even want to save it. Him being sick makes everything complicated. So I really, really don't want more rejection.Yes, having a sick partner in an empty marriage must be extremely difficult. And I got the impression that it isn’t easy to communicate with him about anything you’re working on in therapy. Does your husband agree that your marriage has ended? I suppose making decisions about it at this point would be very difficult indeed. And yes, I can understand why you wouldn’t want to say anything to your therapist that might potentially invite rejection. I have a huge fear of rejection too; I hate saying things that might lead that way. But when you remember all the things you’ve managed to say up till now, and how he’s reacted to those, and when you remember that he always says he wants to keep working with you, perhaps you will be able to keep trusting him with the difficult things. I hope so, anyway.
> ***Is it progress? I feel more confused and it occurred to me today that a lot of my angst is about therapy and my therapist. Wouldn't it be easier than me if I didn't have these complications? When is therapy more harmful for you than helpful? (I'm telling myself that I just saw my mother which is why I feel like therapy is bad for me and a crutch and I'm weak and all that. I think that is another post.)
It looks like progress from where I’m sitting. I found that when my feelings for my therapist got more intense it was because of working really hard on stuff. The feelings were part of the solution rather than part of the problem, as it turned out. Maybe it *would* be easier for you if you didn’t have these ‘complications’. But I think these feelings happen for a reason, and working with them is ultimately more effective than wishing them away.
And I can’t imagine that doing therapy is a sign of any kind of weakness. On the contrary, it takes remarkable strength and courage. It’s certainly painful and confusing, especially having these feelings. But it does get better. Well, I found it got better once I accepted the feelings as natural and stopped trying to stamp on them. I only ever talked about it indirectly (though I suppose my therapist guessed precisely where it was all coming from) and eventually there were actually some pleasant moments, if you can believe that!
poster:Tamar
thread:549855
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20050901/msgs/550928.html