Posted by tealady on December 18, 2006, at 15:15:28
In reply to Re: epa/dha » tealady, posted by dessbee on December 18, 2006, at 6:55:21
> EPA and AA (arachidonic acid) share the the same enzyme, delta-5-desaturase. Since EPA has stronger binding to this enzyme it will block formation of AA when EPA is in excess.
> AA is used for producing inflammatory eicosanoids. EPA is used for producing anti-inflammatory eicosanoids. So the ratio between EPA and AA affects the body's inflammatory state.
> It is interesting that ETA (eicosatetraenoic acid, precursor of EPA) is considered an even stronger anti-inflammotory agent (200 times), probably due to its stronger binding to the delta-5-desaturase. Problem is that it is not that common in food, only found in green lipped mussles.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid_interactions> EPA and AA (arachidonic acid) share the same enzyme, delta-5-desaturase. Since EPA has stronger binding to this enzyme it will block formation of AA when EPA is in excess.
> AA is used for producing inflammatory eicosanoids. EPA is used for producing anti-inflammatory eicosanoids. So the ratio between EPA and AA affects the body's inflammatory state.
> It is interesting that ETA (eicosatetraenoic acid, precursor of EPA) is considered an even stronger anti-inflammatory agent (200 times), probably due to its stronger binding to the delta-5-desaturase. Problem is that it is not that common in food, only found in green lipped mussels.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_fatty_acid_interactionsThanks,
My mind always turns to some blubber like state when people start on about prostaglandins etc about:-)
I think its vastly simplified and only really gives one path out of many..and ignores the fact that call membranes are always fluid and changing and dependant on many other things.. eg. thyroid hormones.. the hypothyroid state seems to have a more polyunsaturated , specifically a more omega3 enriched membrane, which is probably why those of us cant tolerate fish oil as well:-)..and if you consider that oxidation etc happens at double bonds (where there's more than one)..and this oxidation is a part of the inflammation process, then you can see why a hypothyroid state gets easily oxidized..and I think this oxidation stuff produces anxiety (but that's only an idea I have).
I guess I meant to say all polyunsaturates are likely to lead to this oxidation stuff.. whereas saturates and monunsaturates don't.
I know it's simplifying, but then so was that wiki stuff:-)
Personally it's all a bit heavy for me..and I've no idea how they know what exactly is going on and there's too many variable.
I just know that GLA as in evening primrose oil does seem to help reduce that inflammation stuff (and this agrees with the wiki article you stated), and fish oil and DHA enriched fish oil does seem to increase this oxidation stuff and anxiety in me, but flaxseed seems to help, maybe that's fgot more EPA which would agree with your links in a way?
Maybe EPA high fish oil is what I'll try ..if I ever try it again.
I also shoulda said that its DHA that's mostly thought of as the worst one.. having more double bonds and more easily oxidised?
then again, this ONLY considers the cell membranes, DHA in the blood (and EPA)probably have many great uses.
I know the brain is high in omega 3's.. I think DHA ? but I'm not sure..which is why its supposed to help with depression?
It's been said if short on omega3's..eat brain.. but that's going a bit far, yuk..and even then I'd get worried:)Herr's a bit more for you.. it;s way more complicated than just prostaglandins, and I sure haven't figure it out.. I only know how I react and am looking for the reason why:)
TTR increase with fish oil fit in...
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/100/4/1580.pdfhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=1850242&query_hl=38&itool=pubmed_docsum
Fatty acid composition of the mitochondrial phospholipids may be involved in the permeability differences.The links between membrane composition, metabolic rate and lifespan
"High DHA content in phospholipids is associated with high metabolic activity and this observation has led to the development of the "membrane pacemaker" theory of metabolism. This proposes that highly polyunsaturated acyl chains impart physical properties to membrane bilayers that enhance and speed up the molecular activity of membrane proteins and consequently the metabolic activity of cells, tissues and the whole animal. The brain has highly polyunsaturated membranes irrespective of body size and possible reasons for this are discussed. Highly polyunsaturated acyl chains are very susceptible to peroxidative damage. It is suggested that these chemical properties of highly polyunsaturated membrane acyl chains have important implications for understanding aging and the determination of longevity"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Search&itool=pubmed_AbstractPlus&term=%22Hulbert+AJ%22%5BAuthor%5Dhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=10216165&query_hl=41&itool=pubmed_docsum
Thyroid hormone status and membrane n-3 fatty acid content influence mitochondrial proton leakomega 6 fatty acids and the effects of hyperthyroidism in mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=7738467&query_hl=30&itool=pubmed_docsumThe mechanism of the increase in mitochondrial proton permeability induced by thyroid hormones
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=1318835
OK, above aren't human studies..but as far as I'm aware rats are the possibly the closest animals that are cut up to determine all this stuff.. I don't think its possible on humans as yet precisely? so I thought maybe that wiki article on how the cascade re prostaglandins(which they said happened over seconds) happened in humans was maybe not actually based on human studies either. I'm not saying its wrong, just its only one probably many pathways and its all influenced by many other things, some of which I've given links to above..
so as I get sooo confused by all of this..I just go by how I feel and how some others say they feel..and I definitely feel like I've got increased oxidation on fish oil..and I'm hypothyroid so maybe that explains it..and I think I get increased anxiety when this oxidation stuff happens..
and it fits in with why someone here felt better after eating lamb as it was mainly EPA and saturated and monunsatured fats.... I replied there.. but it fits with the reduced oxidation stuff..at least a coupe of days worth, not much more..or it leads to too great an imbalance and more problems!All species (humans included) can only alter cell membranes within predefined species limits , and also considering status of other things like thyroid hormones, proteins etc!..so you can't change cell membranes that much .. back to where they were centuries ago and a bit more I'd guess:0).. which , of course, helps
Hope this helps clarify what I meant, I was a trying to be brief before .... LOLSo , for me at present, I just go on how I feel, and I'm interested in how others feel:).. but it's nice if I can figure out why I feel like I do.
poster:tealady
thread:714317
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20061218/msgs/714823.html