Posted by Lou Pilder on February 15, 2014, at 9:22:48
In reply to Re: The Hsiung-Pilder discussion, posted by Dr. Bob on February 14, 2014, at 14:29:26
> > In the post in question, the poster telling me to save myself first by converting to Christianity from Judaism has many {implications}.One implication is that since I am a Jew, that Judaism does not lead to being saved and that Christianity does.
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> I see that not as an implication, but as jumping to a conclusion. Since he just said you, not all Jews.
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> > {pressure } is defined more than one way. One way is by repeated questioning or repeated statements, but another is by what any consequences could be to the recipient if they do not do what is said for the subject person to do. An example hypothetically could be if one poster tells another poster that they are to convert to Christianity or they will not be saved. The {consequences} of not being saved could be considered by a subset of readers to be {pressuring} the subject person.
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> That's a good point, but he didn't mention any consequences.
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> > > I agree, it wasn't sensitive to your feelings
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> > That alone could be a way to post a repudiation in the thread where the post appears.
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> It turns out that's this thread. :-) So let's move on?
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> BobMr. Hsiung,
You wrote that you do not see that as an implication.
The statement in question tells me to convert to Christianity first to be saved. An {implication} is what can be {deduced} from what is in the statement that is not directly written.
Now let us look at what can, or can not, be deduced from what can be seen.
A. That Judaism is a faith that can not lead to salvation. Can this be deduced from what the statement writes?
The aspect that one is told to {convert} from Judaism to Christianity to be saved is what is written. Since the poster does not specify what {saved} means, then the generally accepted understanding of when one tells a Jew to convert to Christianity to be saved, is to be saved from The Wrath of God. This is generally understood to mean there is reference to the doctrine of hell promulgated by mainstream Christianity, where Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity are consigned after death for all eternity to be in flames and agony of being burnt in conscience torment in excruciating pain forever. That is the {consequences} that could be deduced from the statement in question that is the implied {pressure}.
Now the {putting down} of Judaism is by the comparison of Judaism with Christianity in that a subset of readers could think that Judaism is an inferior faith because a Jew can not be saved unless they convert to Christianity which can be deduced by the fact that the statement says to convert to Christianity to be saved. Now you say that [...I see that not as an implication...]. But there could be a subset of readers that do see it as an implication, those that do see it as an implication such as me, and your rule is to not post anything that could lead someone to feel put down. Your rule is not that posters are not to post what you feel put down about.
A question becomes then as to if a reasonable reader could deduce from the statement that it puts down Judaism. I consider myself a reasonable reader here and can deduce that the statement says that Judaism is inferior to Christianity on the basis that the statement says for me, as a Jew, to save myself first by converting to Christianity. That does jump to a conclusion that the poster is saying that I am not saved as you admit here. But it is also saying by implication that Judaism is a faith that those people embracing that faith can not be saved, which a subset of readers could consider to be putting down Judaism, for the statement says that I as a Jew am to convert to Christianity to be saved, which can induce the thinking of a reasonable reader to think that is a *condition* for myself and other Jews to be saved also. If you think otherwise, I invite you now to post here your rationale and I could have the opportunity to respond to what you post to me.
But it is much more than that here. By the fact that the statement is not sanctioned, a subset of readers could think that you are validating what the statement could purport about Judaism as you state that unsanctioned post have statements in them that are not against your rules. I am asking that you post to that post (directly to the text} so that the statement is linked by your post to show that you repudiate what the statement could purport about Judaism which could reverse any thinking that you are ratifying the libel against the Jews in the statement, for there can be a subset of readers that see it as I do, and see it as putting down Judaism on the basis of what the generally accepted meaning of putting down means in that those readers could think that the statement says that Judaism is inferior to Christianity on the basis that it could be deduced from what is written. It is my position here that if there is not a repudiation directly to the text by you, then a subset of readers could think that you are ratifying the put down of Judaism as those readers could see. This could encourage more defamatory statements about Judaism and allow you and the poster to develop more and more defamatory postings because that since there is no sanction to the statement directly, others could think that it is supportive and the poster of the statement could continue with analogous statements. This IMHO could create a community of acceptance for hatred toward Jews and could recruit young people that are vulnerable to propaganda against Jews and create a foundation for real-world hatred of Jews.
As to going on, you could choose from the many offered posts in this thread by me. One of which is the post that has the link to Matthew 27 and the verses that I cite as putting down Jews.
Lou Pilder
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:1050116
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060705.html