Posted by Lou Pilder on February 7, 2014, at 12:14:39
In reply to Lou's reply-The Hsiung-Pilder discussion-klair, posted by Lou Pilder on February 4, 2014, at 10:05:42
> > > > > The aspect of that you want me to post a repudiation to the first part is something that I do not think is my responsibility to do.
> > > >
> > > > OK, I posted my response.
> > >
> > > And deleted it when I saw it was on the Medication board, not the Faith board. And that redirecting it had come up, and that I'd already posted a PBC.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > > > Save yourself first. Jewish people convert to Christianity all the time.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20130903/msgs/1055904.html
> > >
> > > > There we have what could be thought by a subset of readers as me being pressured by the poster to adopt another faith. And also a subset of readers could think that Judaism is being put down, and that I am being put down for being a Jew, as Judaism is unable to grant a Jew to be saved, for the poster states to save myself first by converting to Christianity.
> > >
> > > I see what you're saying, but IMO that wasn't pressure to adopt another faith or a put-down of Judaism. For one thing, Christian people may also convert to Judaism just as, or even more, frequently.
> > >
> > > Bob
> >
> > Mr. Hsiung,
> > You wrote,[...IMO that wasn't {pressure} to {adapt}another faith or a {put down} of Judaism...]. (emphasis mine)
> > Your rule is to not post anything that could put down or accuse another or overgeneralize of jump to a conclusion about another ...and in matters of faith that means to not pressure another to adopt a different faith or put them down for having theirs...].
> > Now you say that it is{ your opinion} as to if something puts down or pressures. You also state here that you do not substitute your feelings for someone else's feelings in matters of feeling put down when they read something here. You also agree that if something puts down Jews, it is an anti-Semitic statement.
> > Now the generally accepted meaning of {put down} and {pressure} can be the determining factor here, when people read what is in The generally accepted meanings of what is in question could be seen forensically as in posts in the past practice here and compare those with {your opinion} as to if or if not {your opinion} is not in accordance with what your past practice shows as to what {pressure} or {put down} means. But it is much more than that. For if you are deviating in this case from your past practice, a subset of readers could think that you are attempting to accommodate the statements in question here as being conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of the community and supportive, which could also lead a subset of readers to think that you are in concert with the poster to allow what those readers could think what is not supportive and pressures a Jew to convert to Christianity in order to be saved. That could lead to a subset of Jews feeling put down and insulted on the basis that those readers could think that you are allowing the statement in question that says that Jews are not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved. This could then lead a subset of readers to think that you are attempting to foster anti-Semitism here by not sanctioning what could be seen by a subset of readers as Jews being put down and pressured to adopt the Christian perspective because you state that posts not sanctioned have what is in them statements that are not against your rules.
> > Lou Pilder
>
> Mr Hsiung,
> Your past practice here clarifies what one can post as if it is supportive or not, or if it puts down or not or pressures or not.
> One of the aspects that define this that readers could see states by you:
> [...To say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not which puts down those of other beliefs...].
> Now the statement in question states that I as a Jew should convert to Christianity in order to save myself. Now the poster does not state what {save} means, but it is generally accepted that when others attempt to convert another to another faith, usually theirs, as used in this case, it is The Wrath of God that is what readers could think that the person should be saved from. This generally is what Christians that attempt to convert others to Christianity use to lead the ones being attempted to be converted to think that they will suffer excruciating torment in flames for all eternity in what they call "hell" if they remain Jews and do not convert to Christianity. This is a generally accepted meaning of what {pressure} means in relation to pressure others to adopt Christianity, for the implication could mean that if you do not convert to Christianity, you could go to hell.
> You also state that telling others what to do is not conducive to the civic harmony and welfare here because telling others what to do is different from telling others what to believe. Here in this case, I as a Jew am being told what to do, to convert to Christianity, so that I could save myself first.
> You also state that making statements like the one in question could be determined as to if it is OK to post it on the basis of determining if it is {necessary} to post it. Is it necessary to post to me to as a Jew convert to Christianity to save myself first?
> You also state here that it is fine to post what you believe-as long as you don't put down other beliefs. The concept that I as a Jew am being told to first convert to Christianity to save myself first, is contrasting Judaism as a religion that can not save Jews with a religion that one could be saved as converting to so that what can be seen is that Judaism is {inferior} to Christianity because Judaism can not save but Christianity can. This is one of the generally accepted meanings of what {put down} means.
> The aspect that you are allowing the statement to be seen as supportive and will be good for this community as a whole could lead a subset of readers such as Jewish children to feel put down, insulted, humiliated with no hope of being with God in Paradise, but to be consigned to hell because they are Jews and have not converted to Christianity to save themselves first as the poster writes here. This could lead those readers that come here via a search in depression to go further into depression and commit suicide as they could think that you are saying that the statement will be good for this community as a whole and I supportive because it is unsanctioned.
> You say that you take responsibility for what you post, and by you rejecting this opportunity to post a repudiation of what puts down Jews and others that do not convert to Christianity first to be saved, readers could think that you could be using your power to foster anti-Semitism here for you do have a choice to post a repudiation or not, for your rules state not to post anything that could lead one to feel put down. I feel put down, and if you want to say that I should not feel put down, then go ahead and post that here. But when you do it to me, you do it to the other Jews that feel put down when they read what you are allowing as not against your rules to post here.
> Lou Pilder
> Here is a post where you clarify about putting down other faiths and telling others what to do and if it is necessary and to say that one belief should be embraced is to say that others should not.
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin//20020918/msgs/7871.html
> and then here is a post saying not to pressure or put down: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7724.htmlMr. Hsiung,
Your forum is meant to be supportive of all faiths. In the post in question, the implication in the statement is that Judaism is not a religion that could lead to one being saved and that Christianity is. This is all because the statement can be seen by a subset of readers as putting down Judaism as a faith that is inferior to Christianity because the statement implies that I as a Jew need to convert to Christianity to be saved. And that is a jump to a conclusion to say, in any form of implication, that as a Jew I am not saved and need to convert to Christianity to be saved.
Your past practice here defines what puts down, be it in your TOS under "civil" as to matters of faith or other matters. One such post is,[ faith, 766183].
Here in another post the past practice is that when someone tells another what to do, that could be putting down that person. Now it is what the person is telling the other to do that is relevant in any determination as to if the statement constitutes {putting down} the other person. In the aspect of what the person is told to do is IMHO analogous to that the poster in question in this post,[ admin, 4418 ], says to do. The analogous concept is that in 4418, the poster is told to change his/her behavior to a different behavior as one being more mature. But what if the person likes being immature? And your deputy did sanction the statement as {putting down} the other person and rightfully so, for people telling others to change can be a put down. And in the post in question, I as a Jew am being told to change my belief in Judaism to the belief in Christianity and convert to Christianity so that I can save myself first. I feel put down when I read that.
Then there is the concept of being sensitive to the feelings of others as exemplified in,[faith,799315 ], and not put down the beliefs of others in [ faith, 690854 ].
Now be it as it may be, if you are going to allow the statement to stand, a subset of readers IMHO could think that you are using your power to contribute and intentionally develop anti-Semitic feelings here by allowing others to think that you are saying that the statement is supportive and will be good for this community as a whole by the nature that you say that posts unsanctioned have statements in them that are not against your rules. This could enable and encourage IMHO others to post analogous statements that could lead a subset of Jewish readers to feel put down which distorts the intent of the forum to not post {anything that could lead} another reader to feel put down or accused or jump to a conclusion about someone.
And worse, IMHO a subset of readers could think that you are validating that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity. I base that on the fact that what can be seen in the statement for me to convert, could lead a subset of readers ignorant of Judaism to accept the statement as fact. It is a false statement that Jews are not saved unless they convert to Christianity and defames Judaism itself if it is allowed to be considered conducive to the civic harmony and welfare of this community and supportive. The concept of how one is saved is not defined by the poster. And worse, your prohibitions posted to me here prevent me from posting what could vindicate the Jews to show that they do not have to convert to Christianity to save themselves. That fact alone could lead a subset of readers to think that you are not neutral in regards to this issue, and that you are ratifying and adopting the statement as fact which could encourage further statements that could lead a Jew to feel put down, which are anti-Semitic statements, and statements that could induce hostile and disagreeable feelings and opinions of me which could result IMHO oppression and malice toward me and other Jews.
But if that is what you want, let us go to the next statement that I want a repudiation by you posted to. In this post, a subset of readers could think that you consider the statement to be accurate that puts down Jews, as that the statement could be thought that Christianity has grace and truth but Judaism does not, because grace and truth {came by} Jesus Christ. I am prevented from posting a repudiation due to the prohibitions that you have posted to me here which could lead a subset of readers to think that you are preventing me to do so that could have a subset of readers think that it constitutes malice toward me as a Jew here
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faith/20060614/msgs/735373.html
Lou PIlder
poster:Lou Pilder
thread:1050116
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20131217/msgs/1060400.html