Posted by that_guy23 on November 25, 2008, at 10:00:23
In reply to Re: no stims/no benz BEST NARDIL AUGMENTATION, posted by Vincent_Qc on November 24, 2008, at 15:35:55
> Hi mister!
> For the first time, I think I see someone with the same problem I have.
>
> In the begining of 2007, after trying everythings existing in the world for depression/anxiety and social phobia, my familly doctor put me on Nardil. I was also already on 8 mg of clonazepam.
>
yes I am on nardil, now for 12 weeks in 2 days, I am only on clonazepam 1mg 3x a day> I also have in the past a drug addiction and I had also an alcool problem in the past. I think that kinds of substances abuse is common with people who do social phobia and anxiety.
Yes I had drug addictions, mostly cocaine and extacy. But my biggest problem was alcohol, I am actually classified as an alcoholic. And have that to recover from as well.
>
> What I don't know it's if you also make panic attacks??? This is why I had to stop using "street" drugs back in 1996...and it's why also I stop drinking in june 2006. I had several panic attacks when I was drunk, even if I was taking the double of the dosage of Clonazepam I had to take. I learn more later than mix alcool and an anxiolytic like Clonazepam can kill you so I feel lucky to not have more problems than this at the time.I don't have panic attacks, at leat not since I was younger. I think when I was fourteen, I smoked a joint with my friends that was a gager, it got me very stoned, I think all of a sudden I had an anxiety or panic attack and I freaked out.
this was probably a first sign of anxiety, but I didn't realize until recently thats what it was.
I only recall starting to feel anxious and depressed at age 16-18. Another time that I remember, I was working as a gas attendent, and was always so anxouis, but again I didn't know that I had a disorder, or at least seeked help, until about 20. Any way, I remember as a car pulled away after me gassing up, I started to feel really weird couldn't breath right, flet like I was going crazy, but I maintained my cool and it went away after 2-3 mins, and luckily there was knowone around, cause I would like ly have been ashamed.
>
> I'm 32 yo, and I begin do to panic attacks and social phobia with agoraphobia at 19 yo. The first couple of years I was on "Paxil" and I Was seeing a psychologist at the same time. I don't think the Paxil helped me at all. After gaining a lot of weight on it, I stop it at 23yo. I had a new doctor at the time and we try a lot of things after, zoloft, effexor, celexa (it was new at the time)...I never feel any improvement of my anxiety or my social phobia with all the SSRI's or SNRI's. At 25 yo, I decide to stop everything, I was tired of just ganing weight and not improve at all, in fact I was getting worse each time I try something new. I just give up at time.
>
> At 28yo my anxiety and social phobia return at a more high level. I never felt like this in my life before. At the same time, I was moving into a new city and beginig the university. I return to see my old family doctor and after trying a lot of others pills (topomax, lyrica, gabapentin, effexor xr, seroquel, ziprexa, risperdal, name them...I try everything)...
I started with effexor, or effexxor xr, then paxil, prozac, zoloft, wellbutrin which was just something to increase sex drive to me added with other ssri's, nortriptyline, seroquel, and remeron which actually helped very quickly with my depression big time, it made me gain like 20-25 lbs, but that only put me to 170. It was not quite working though for anxiety, so I dropped it.
>
> So in august 2005 he decide to put me on Clonazepam. It was a good ide at fisrt, but he forget to ask me if I had a drinking problem or a drug addiction now or in the past!!! Of course I had ones...So I begin taking clonazepam 0.5 mg 4 times a day. It really work well for maybe 3 months. At the same time I was also drinking a lot. It was the first time in my life I was able to going out alone and feeling very well. I was a lot more sociable with strangers and the others in general and I was not shy at all. You can belive me, I do a lot of things that i'm shy now to mention on it!!! It was not me...I was feeling like on drugs, but a good drug, very relaxing...
>
> In the begining of 2006, the 0.5 mg/4 times a day begin to stop working. My doctor double the dose, give me 1 mg /4 times a day. I was in heaven again...but the effects only last 2 months...I had to call him again and ask for more. He double the dose again, 2 mg/4 times a day. Another time, it last only 2 months...At the end I was totally drained of all my energy. I always continu to drink in the same period, I was drunk 4 nights by week...
>
yeah I had a problem there too vincent, I kept upping the dose myself, and actually started to abuse them, eating them like candy whenever I went anywhere. This made me lose benzos
> In june 2006, I return to see him and he decide to put me on paxil 20 mg/day and the same clonazepam dose of 8 mg day. After having a lot of panick attacks when I was drunk even passed out 1 time, I decide to stop drinking. At the same time, I begin to have recurrent migraine and headache. Since june 2006, I have a big headache that never stop, some day it's tolerable, other day it's crazy...
>
> Anyway, I stop the paxil after 2 months because I was getting worse than before. I just continu the Clonazepam and return to school after the summer. In the begining of 2007, I was not able to going out alone or just go to the university. I remove 3 courses in my winter session and keep only 2 courses. I call back again my family doctor and I ask him for help...I was in a bad state of mind...
>
> He put me on Nardil for the first time of my life, MOAI was the only kind of medecine I never try in the past. I begin to 30 mg/day for 1 week, increase at 45 the week after and 75 mg at week 4. I was getting a little bit better, less anxious, but nothing for my social phobia. At week 5, my doctor put me on 90 mg/day. At first it was really great, I was feeling energic and less anxious....
>
> The bad news is that I begin to have the same hypotension problem that you get at 105 mg...Just climbing stairs was difficult. I was earing sounds in my head, seing stars and having the black view for about 30 seconds...I pass out one time also for a couple of seconds...I was totally freaked out. I call my doctor and ask if it was normal. He say no...and that I had severe hypotension. He say to stay calm and that this side effect will fade away with time. I wait like this 3 weeks but it was just getting worst.
>
> After 2 months on Nardil I just stop it cold turkey because it was untolerable. The hypotension problem was to big for me. It take maybe one week to recover from this...
>
> I call my doctor again and he decide to try another thing, Remeron...The only good effect I had on it was the sleep quality...I have a insomnia problem since a lot of years...I was slepping much longer...but at the same time I gain a lot of pounds, not because I was eating more, it was just like this...
>
> At the same time, I change the Clonazepam to Diazepam, because I had a lot of cognitive problems, memory loose and others things like that from the clonazepam and it was doing nothing even at 8 mg...I just wanted to withdrawl the Clonazepam changing it with the diazepam, it's a more long acting benzo...and of course it's not as efficient than Clonazepam, I never feel anything on it. At first I was more sleepy, but that it...I'm now only on 20 mg of Valium /day...a very low dose if you compare it to Clonazepam.
>
I found nothing with diazepam, I even took 110 mg one nght and downed a flask, and I still remember the whole night. xanax was good and ativan wasn't bad. but like you said there easy to get addicted to.
> Trust me, having a more high Clonazepam dose will just make you feel worst. Since you seem to have a substance abuse problem like mine, You brain will always ask for more and more...Don't forget that's a drug also and more powerfull than alcool or anything else...
>
> I ask to have a reference paper to see a psychiatrist at the hospital to have more help. I had to wait more than 8 months before I get an appointment. The new psychiatrist give me prozac, the only one SSRI's I never try. It was crazy at hell, I was so anxious, always on the panic mood...We try also again the Zoloft at a high dose...I feel nothing on it, I just gain weight again. e put me on Effexor XR, same thing, nothing after 2 months at 300 mg...I was just getting worse and worse...At the same time, I return in the Clonazepam world...In fact, I add a prescription for all the benzos existing in the world...We try the Ativan, Serax, Librium, Xanax...The more I Was taking them and the more I was feeling worst but at the same time I was not able to stop using them. So I ended up at the hospital because of my dependance problem...
>
> After the hospital, I do my own drug reduction cedule...I ask for the Valium again...60 mg at first and I reduce the dose to 2o mg...now i'm stable at 20 mg and I DON'T WANT to return on a more powerfull anxiolytic drug!!! NEVER AGAIN!!!
>
that must have been hard! and took alot of motivation
>
LAst week I meet a new psychiatrist, he give me 5 choices...one of them was the PArnate... He give me this, I begin at 10 mg/day...It was ok for 3 days...after I begin to freak out...too much activiting for me. I had several panic attacks...
>
> I see the same psychiatrist this morning and I ask him to return on Nardil, since Nardil have a less activing profile than the Parnate, in fact Nardil affect the Gaba receptors...mean that it's a more powerfull anxiolytic drugs than Parnate.
>
> My new psychiatrist say that increase too fast the Nardil dose is a big error...He put me on 15 mg/day on week one and 30 mg on week 2...and I wil stay there for maybe one month before I will get a higher dose. To avoid hypotension problem you have to understand that Nardil lower your blood pressure, adding an anxiolytic on the top of it also lower your blood pressure. The more powerfull is the anxiolytic (Clonazepam, Xanax, Ativa) and the more side effects you will have with Nardil. That the way my new doctor explain it to me.
>
I can here that I was increased way too fast, but stayed because it's the gold standard for SA. and I heard of such success.
>
We are all in the same boat. I mean , we all want to recover fast and see some improvements fast...That's just normal, but I think this time I understand that taking my time will be the key to my problem. He told me also that it will take 2 months maybe more to see some improve of my state.
>
yep you gotta be patient. Ive learned that, but have no patience
>
So one thing to remember, go slow on the dose and give some time to your brain to adjust to it. Too much Nardil will just give you more hypotension problem but you will not recover more fast!!!
>
> As an advise for you, you're an anxious person, maybe you should stay on Nardil, just for the Gaba effect of it. Parnate don't have the gaba effect and for me it was like the time I was on the Prozac, a lot anxious and nervous...With the Parnate, you will just worsing your condition. I know we are all different, but for my experience, I know that an antidepressant who make me feel more anxious just push me to increase my Valium intake...and that's not good...
>
> Note that people who don't have a substances abuse problem, Clonazepam or others benxos can be effective all their life... But for me that's impossible because I always became addicted fast on drugs...
I agree
>
> So I hope it will help you ;-)
>
> I hope you will feel more well soon!!!
>
> Best regard!!!
>
> Vincent ;-)thanks for the advice
poster:that_guy23
thread:863270
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20081123/msgs/865172.html