Posted by fachad on June 11, 2002, at 16:42:16
In reply to Re: Trimipramine= no sleep! » Ritch, posted by Chloe on June 10, 2002, at 20:31:48
I've taken all three, and also have researched the pharmacological differences between these three. Each one has unique properties.
The three parameters that accout for the way the drugs effect you are:
Histamine blockade (sedation, increased appetite)
Cholenergic blockade (dry mouth, consitpation, etc.)
Re-uptake of NE and 5HT.
Ami is the most potent at cholenergic blockade. At the same doses, it causes much more dry mouth and constipation than Dox or Trimip. Also, there is a withdrawl symptom from "cholenergic rebound" that could explain why you felt bad subing trimip for ami.
Doxepin is the most potent at Histamine blockade. At the same doses it is the most potent sedative. Trimip is very close to doxepin, slighty less H1 blockade than dox, but much more than ami.
Trimp is nearly as potent as dox at H1 blockade, and should be much more sedating than ami. It is slightly more potent than dox at cholenergic blockade. The other unique things about trimp are lack of re-uptake of NE and 5HT, and very slight DA blockade
Here are the numbers for the three on H1 and Ach blockade from one study I read:
Drug------H1------Ach
Ami-------91------5.1
Dox------410------1.3
Trim-----370------1.7
So for me dox and trimp seem much stronger, but much cleaner for sleep. I would not underestimate the severity of the cholenergic rebound if switching from ami to one of the other two.> Did keeping yourself up let you sleep in? Never works for me. I try to never go to bed before 11pm, if I have no ami, I am always awake before sunrise. Sleep is work without ami. But, I was getting a bit tolerant to ami sedative effects at 20 mgs, but I was scared to increase, because of the negative mood affect it can have. I get a really short unpredictable fuse...That's why I thought trimiprimine would be good. No substancial NE reuptake, and some DA.
>
> Well, I think I have some EPS. When I awoke this am, my teeth were loose from clenching. And my tongue really hasn't stopped going since I started trimip. So, with the EPS, total inability to sleep, severe restlessness, and anxiety, I aborted mission last night. I took just 10 mgs of ami and it was a God send. I slept! It was like getting an old friend back.
>
> But I am wondering how much off my bad experience with trimip was ami withdrawal? I probably should have tapered, but I just assumed, and wasn't instructed otherwise, I could substitute one TCA for the other. Maybe all the sweating and foggy head on that first day was just withdrawal? But from all I have read, Trimip is supposed to be very sedating, in the same class of doxepin and ami. But 25 mg of trimip wasn't enough to cover the lack of 20 mg of ami, clearly.
>
> Could you relate in your experience the difference betweeen Doxepin and Ami. Do you think dox. would be less likely to cause anger outburst at low doses? Is it less or more sedating? How about dry mouth, constipation, wt gain, etc. Would you mind comparing the two for me? If you have done this before, could you send me to the sight? I am just wondering if dox may have less AD punch at low doses like 25 mgs than ami, but same sedative or hypnotic, anxiety effect.
>
> Mucho thanks,
> And I really hope you conquered your early am awakening.
> Chloe
poster:fachad
thread:108844
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020609/msgs/109508.html