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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
Today i finally made it to a therapy appt and talked with T about how it felt to read some stories that i had written for English class five years ago- before i was given a dx of DID and before i had therapy.
i was so much better then- i had hope- i had values that were absolute- not always changing with parts. There were times that i had 'breakdowns' all my life but after a few months they went away. There was a personality that i liked in the writings. i want to go back to that. Now i understand what my H means when he said that therapy ruined me.
My T became so defensive. Why he did is so much a mystery to me. It's me that's suffering because of the changes- not him. Therapy is unsuccessful for me - i can't face the past and i can't communicate with parts. These are all necessary for DID therapy. i reminded T that after the session HE will be fine.
i'm stuck. T said that it's like i have the worst of both worlds.
i know about DID but am not able to do the work for the treatment/cure. That's why it was worse for me to know about DID.if it were only possible to go back to the sweeter innocent hopeful person i was before, ignorantly thinking that i had a good childhood and that i had 'forgot' all the fun i had growing up. Now there's no way to work on it and T is so angry- he defends himself and i didn't accuse him of anything.
He said, You were _____+ _____ ( things that my personality would never do- Before you met me. "
Yes- just two months before, after i found that i had DID and parts started surfacing. Then there were terrible flashbacks, even taste and audio flashbacks body memories using the sense of taste and hearing.
My life became a nightmare and my personality changed for the worst when i was given a dx of DID. i'm not happy with where therapy has left me at all. You could say that it ruined me- i feel wrecked. And i can't understand why T was so defensive.Tears, i wish i could go back. Back to not knowing the bad things and living an innocent life. i wasn't so needy but was able to meet others needs in love. i wasn't having all these dark thoughts and dark parts against me.
Now i depend upon T - yesterday T didn't even call me back. i felt suicidal after seeing the pain management dr and finding out i'd have to live in pain for the next two weeks to the rest of my life. i can't handle that and T's not going to be always there for me. i needed to talk to someone- a crisis support person. we took diazapam and fell asleep but it may not have gone that way. i hate having to depeng upon T. He's just a person that only cares sometimes. It's not real. And he can't help me. Really - if i need to go inpatient- T always reminds me that i can't go to his hospital- it was a horrible place for me.
Why did i trade my good ignorant innocent personality for all the hopeless and psychologically painful, needy ones. why is my T so defensive? also- T can't help me as much as i need help. He's way too busy for that. now i'm stuck in a crisis i can't get out of :(
Please- if anyone has suggestions,
Thank you,
kerriai wish that T wouldn't be defensive but that he understood and cared about me more than himself.
Posted by daisym on September 2, 2005, at 10:36:17
In reply to Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
Kerrie,
I think the unconscious has its own timetable and no matter what, eventually these sad things that happened would have surfaced. But you are right, therapy does make us more aware and feel worse before we feel better.
I'm sorry your therapist is defensive. He seems to want you to really look at things in the harsh light of day and understand why he is doing what he is doing. But if you can't tolerate that, if it is taking you to the edge, then it isn't safe.
It does sound like you need more constant care and an inpatient place might be the answer. Or a daily out-patient group. Is there one near you that you could get in to?
I hope things calm down and you can find a few peaceful moments this weekend. You sound like you need the rest.
Posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2005, at 19:17:00
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by daisym on September 2, 2005, at 10:36:17
She's right. We drove to Florida last weekend and all the terrible things that happened to me down there surfaced. Memories I'd forgotten reappeared and I had a huge panic attack. And I'm still not over it. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by terrics on September 2, 2005, at 23:05:44
In reply to Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
Hi, I think you are so right about therapists. Many of us think of them as something super human. All they are is plain old human. The worst part is that many of them think of themselves as super human. I wrote a list to bring to my T. next week. All she ever says is so, and, so you say, and how could you have done that differently. I am going to show her the extent of her lack of interaction. Last week I told her that I could do her job. After all she has a vocabulary of approx.3 words. She really made me angry last week. I know I should quit all therapy but I do not do it and I do not know why I don't. I am better without it but I am afraid not to have it. terrics
Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:07:14
In reply to Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
Kerria,
I know you feel dependent on this T, but can you look for other Ts who specialize in DID in your area? You could do a google search. Sounds like someone softer, and more dependable might be better for you, maybe a woman? And this pain guy has to go, he has not been good for you at all.
(((hugs)))
fw
Posted by kerria on September 3, 2005, at 6:41:35
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering » kerria, posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:07:14
Thank you Everyone, for your support.
i'm so saddened that my T is not able to help me .
i can't go to a hospital- i get way worse because my parts have nothing to ground to. They are dependant upon where they are - so we switch throughout the day.
Some parts are doing ok but most are having a very difficult time. i'm afraid. i wish i could find a T that could help- it's too difficult to change- no one will take me- they all know my T and each other. Everything is so much a mess inside.T is impossible to get to trust- he's so into boundaries that i can never feel any caring at all. Forgetting to call was so hard to take because i was in so much pain and so close to making a final decision. It's so hard to see T as a helping person now and it will be so hard in so many ways to find another.
Ts are human but when your patient only calls a few times a year and is as upset as i was there's no way to forget if you are human.
i have DID- i know what it's like to forget but i don't think that i would forget something like that if i cared at all about that person.without caring therapy is too difficult to do.
i'm stuck again.it hurts so much to not have the help that i need for so long.
Thanks for being there. i'm afraid to write so much. i hate to read my writing.
thank you,
kerria
Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 6:50:15
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 3, 2005, at 6:41:35
Posted by Racer on September 3, 2005, at 17:25:19
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 3, 2005, at 6:41:35
Kerria, from everything you've written here and on the other board, it really sounds as though you kinda need to look at finding another source of crisis support -- and I'd opine another T.
In a crisis, when you can't get through to your T, you do have other options in your community: somewhere around you, there is a suicide prevention or general crisis or other emotional support board. It may not be easy to find, but it is out there. If you have trouble finding a few in the telephone book, ask your T to get the numbers for you. (That's the least he can do, really, and it's not asking too much.) Then, if something like this happens again, you can leave a message for your T to call back -- and then get on the telephone to talk to someone who will -- 1.) Answer the telephone and talk to you right that minute; 2.) Listen to you, without getting defensive. 3.) Have a list of all the local resources available to you right in front of him/her. 4.) Will not leave you more broken up than when you picked up the telephone. Truly, Kerria, those crisis lines can be life-saving in a crisis.
As for your T, I won't belabor the point about why you might need a new one, one more suited to your needs. What I will do, though, is a little bit of my standard whip-cracking, which is the part that I'm afraid might offend or be triggering for you. Please know, whatever you think of it, that it's meant in the kindest way, and written in concern for you and for your safety.
OK, you wrote:
"i'm afraid. i wish i could find a T that could help- it's too difficult to change- no one will take me- they all know my T and each other."
OK, so they all know one another. That doesn't mean that they all *like* one another, or that they all *respect* one another as clinicians. Heck, kiddo -- I've liked collegues for whom I had less than zero respect for their abilities. (And I've heartily disliked some whose abilities I've admired. {shrug} Not much in life is black and white.) It may be that every therapist in your area knows every other therapist, but it may also be that half of the other therapists around you think your current T is too rigid with his boundary setting, or that he's not responsive enough to client needs, or that he's just not as good with vulnerable women as he is with more aggressive clients. And you know what? The *only* way to find out if another therapist out there is a better fit for you is to try. You can do a telephone interview to see if a T 'feels' right to you, or at least enough to warrant a visit. If you don't like the T during that visit, you don't have to change -- you can stay with your current T, either instead of changing, or until you find a better fit.
As for not being able to find anyone to see you, I just went through something very, very similar. I'm an adult, and have been getting treatment for Anorexia Nervosa -- Restricting Subtype. Well, it turns out that the Eating Disorder specialists around here will see adults with Bulimia Nervosa, Binge Eating Disorder, etc -- even AN-Binge-Purge Subtype, in a pinch. Guess what they won't treat? What I have. One even said to me, "I don't think you'll find anyone who'll see you -- you know why, don't you?" "Uh -- no?" "Patients with Anorexia *die*!" "Oh, OK, I'll go starve to death now. Thanks for your time." Mind you, all I'd need to do to find treatment was to start purging -- get sicker in order to get help. NOT.
Anyway, to make my long story longer, I called all the local ED specialists, then started through the list again -- and the one that I really wanted to see agreed to see me, she's great, I'm feeling very safe with her, and I think maybe making a tiny bit of progress already. First time I spoke to her, though, she wasn't comfortable with seeing me. {shrug} Don't know what changed that.
The point to all this is that you won't know whether someone out there will see you unless you ask.
Basically, it sounds as though you are doing something I do a lot. I do this sort of thing with my family a lot. Here's the sort of thinking involved: "I want to say something to my aunt about her saying just now that I should 'get off my fat *ss' [remember the anorexia part], but if I remind her of the anorexia and not to make that sort of comment to me, she'll get defensive, and then she'll say I'm too sensitive and need to toughen up, and then I'll feel even worse -- so I should just keep my mouth shut now so that I don't feel even worse." I've just had an entire conversation with myself, all of it hurtful to me, and my aunt has had no input at all! Maybe she would have said something like, "I'm sorry, Honey, I realized it was a mistake as soon as it came out of my mouth. You know that I say nasty things before I think, I wish I could learn not to." (Reality Check: It's much more likely that she'd say something so upsetting that I'd sick up my dinner -- this was all at the dinner table -- but I've still not given her the chance to choose which she'd do.) Does that all make sense to you? And do you think that that's the sort of thing you're doing with the idea of calling some other Ts?
Can you think about calling around for another T as a way of protecting one or more of your parts? That way, maybe you wouldn't feel as though you were doing something for yourself, which might make it easier? Just a thought.
Best luck, and I hope something changes soon for you.
Posted by fairywings on September 3, 2005, at 20:38:59
In reply to Re: Crisis - poss trigger again (long) » kerria, posted by Racer on September 3, 2005, at 17:25:19
> OK, so they all know one another.
The *only* way to find out if another therapist out there is a better fit for you is to try.
>
> As for not being able to find anyone to see you, I just went through something very, very similar.
>I agree with Racer on this Kerria. I just switched Ts too, they both work in the same office. Their doors are adjacent to one another, and the new T didn't turn me down. I like him much better, he's much kinder, I feel much safer with him, and in 2 sessions have covered more ground than in 8 with the last T. I have really high hopes for you that you can at least make some attempts to find someone who will be more supportive and kinder to you.
>
> Basically, it sounds as though you are doing something I do a lot. I do this sort of thing with my family a lot. Here's the sort of thinking involved: "I want to say something to my aunt about her saying just now that I should 'get off my fat *ss' [remember the anorexia part], but if I remind her of the anorexia and not to make that sort of comment to me, she'll get defensive,Racer, you must have done a lot of work because you are really smart to understand yourself so well!
I do this too, but not just with family, I do it with everyone. I have been working hard to set boundaries, sounds like you, Kerria, and I need some work in this area.Good luck Kerria, I hope you'll think about finding a new T.
fw
>
Posted by alexandra_k on September 3, 2005, at 21:09:45
In reply to Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
> i want to go back to that. Now i understand what my H means when he said that therapy ruined me.
yes. i think contact with community mental health about ruined me too. on first contact... i was hospitalised because they were concerned about suicide risk... i deteriorated on admission... and spent two years more as an inpatient than an outpatient. picked up all sorts of odd manerisms etc. in the good old days i suppose i would have been a lifer... but the modern spirit of deinstitutionalisation and all... i just managed to swap institutions is all. but i'm still dependent.
> My T became so defensive. Why he did is so much a mystery to me.because you were telling your t that they made you worse not better. thats got to be a pretty hard thing to take...
a lot of did experts reckon that things have to get worse before they get better. i've read a fair bit of stuff... and by the sounds of it (especially in complex cases) they expect it to get a whole lot worse. and as for what i think... well... to be honest i don't think it has to get as bad as all that.
but the worse people appear to be (if only for a limited time) the better the therapists success looks later.
> i know about DID but am not able to do the work for the treatment/cure. That's why it was worse for me to know about DID.
okay. you are not able to do the work your therapist thinks essential / necessary for the treatment / cure. most of the specialists form something of a closed set and they are in agreement on what is required for the treatment / cure. i can see that it would be fairly pointless to go see another specialist because what you would get would probably be fairly much the same thing....
this is just my personal opinion....
but i think you would do far better with someone who thought a little more outside the box...
i have recieved a lot of help with dbt.
typically done for borderline personality disorder...
but then some theorists (Colin Ross for instance) thinks that did exists as a severe form of bpd anyways.
the first year of treatment is mostly about building trust
learning skills to help you function better in your daily life
those things need to be well established before starting on the traumatic stuff.so imo... you might be better off looking to people who are outside that specialist set.
a t who distances themself somewhat from that.
> if it were only possible to go back to the sweeter innocent hopeful person i was before, ignorantly thinking that i had a good childhood and that i had 'forgot' all the fun i had growing up. Now there's no way to work on it and T is so angry- he defends himself and i didn't accuse him of anything.there would have been good times too.
there would have been good times in your childhood too.
and you used to be able to function fairly well
:-)
so those good memories must still be lurking...
and those skills that enabled you to function are already within you.
i think you need someone to help you get back in touch with those for a while...
a fair while...
then when you are stabilised it is up to you whether you want to deal with trauma or not.
you may find benefit to it...
or you may not.but first things first...
getting your life back on track.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 3, 2005, at 21:17:52
In reply to Re: Crisis - poss trigger again (long) » kerria, posted by Racer on September 3, 2005, at 17:25:19
> As for not being able to find anyone to see you, I just went through something very, very similar. I'm an adult, and have been getting treatment for Anorexia Nervosa -- Restricting Subtype. Well, it turns out that the Eating Disorder specialists around here will see adults with Bulimia Nervosa, Binge Eating Disorder, etc -- even AN-Binge-Purge Subtype, in a pinch. Guess what they won't treat? What I have. One even said to me, "I don't think you'll find anyone who'll see you -- you know why, don't you?" "Uh -- no?" "Patients with Anorexia *die*!" "Oh, OK, I'll go starve to death now. Thanks for your time." Mind you, all I'd need to do to find treatment was to start purging -- get sicker in order to get help. NOT.
Ah. Something has just clicked into place for me. I can't afford private treatment so I have to go with community mental health (public service). I have a dx of DID. There is nobody within the service with any experience / interest in treating the disorder. I got a quote for external (private) treatment and the mental health service said they would not fund external treatment.
They said they were concerned that if they funded external treatment in my case then they would be setting precedent for funding external treatment in the case of eating disorders.
I didn't know what they meant...
I guess its hard to find people willing to treat your dx too.
:-(
And what horrible things people say.
And it does feel like they are just waiting for me to go off somewhere and curl up and die too :-(
I'm sorry Racer :-(
>First time I spoke to her, though, she wasn't comfortable with seeing me. {shrug} Don't know what changed that.I think it is one thing to turn an abstract person away.
It is another to turn an actual person who is sitting there in front of you away.
Maybe... She saw what a great person you are and how much you really want to get better :-)
Posted by gardenergirl on September 3, 2005, at 23:01:53
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering » kerria, posted by alexandra_k on September 3, 2005, at 21:09:45
I had the same thought.
(((kerria))))
Sending you calming and healing energy.
gg
Posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 9:31:33
In reply to Re: Crisis - poss trigger again (long) » Racer, posted by alexandra_k on September 3, 2005, at 21:17:52
Sad that it is this way and that you can't get the care you need.
fw
Posted by kerria on September 4, 2005, at 19:23:32
In reply to Re: Crisis - poss trigger again (long), posted by fairywings on September 4, 2005, at 9:31:33
((((((((((Racer))))))))))
((((((((Everyone)))))))
i wish i had more hope. there isn't enough hope. My family is so neagative. the morphine is making my voice slur - i wish it would take my pain away. Everyone in my family is so negative accusing .
everything is so hard.
i feel so unloved. There's so much pain. i don't think it will ever get any better or i will ever be treated to get out of pain without the hatred of my family. Tired of being accused that i'm a druggie. No one in my family has said anything except negatives and i'm always disappointing everyone- i hate myself- i'm too depressed to do anything.
i know i won't be able to look for another T now. i can't ever call the crisis line because they always send an ambulance. i never want to go inpatient and i never want to call T again.It feels like i can't make it- the medicine makes me feel so bad.
kerria
Posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 8:42:17
In reply to Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by kerria on September 2, 2005, at 0:03:08
(((((((((Kerria)))))))))))))
> My T became so defensive.
Yeah, I can imagine he did. It must be hard for him to hear that you think therapy has made you worse. Doesn't make it any easier on you though, does it?Mine gets defensive a lot too. He crosses his arms over his chest and swings his legs around to the side of his chair so he doesn't have to face me. It hurts.
i reminded T that after the session HE will be fine.
I like that you reminded him of that. Sometimes I just want to ask my T "Did you ever wonder what it's like to be me?"
Kerria, I think that if you were there once you can get back there. I used to be far more functional than I am now too. Maybe that part of my life is over. I don't know. I hope not.
It's hard for me to give advice on your T. I am struggling with so many of the same issues with mine. I hope it gets better for us.
Posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 20:06:32
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering » kerria, posted by cricket on September 7, 2005, at 8:42:17
(((((((((Cricket)))))))))
Please never accept that your best life isn't in the Future.
i will try not to either because it will be a very sad day and we need to have hope that we are getting better. Hope so we could be there for our family and friends and ourselves.Cricket, Why don't you just ask your T if he wonders what it's like to be you?
i always say How do you think i feel?
i remember saying things like that a lot.
i'm a hard patient but i have a hard time also.It makes me feel so sad that i don't think T cares about me. i don't even have an appt- T said just call him when i have the car- otherwise we don't make it lately.
("i hope i'll be ok, T.")
i wish we were in a real IRL support group. It would be so cool to have someone besides T to understand to call when T feels uncaring.
love,
kerria
Posted by JenStar on September 7, 2005, at 22:46:21
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering » cricket, posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 20:06:32
hi Kerria,
I'm sorry it feels like your T is uncaring. Is it possible, though, that he's trying the "tough love" approach?He's seen that you haven't been able to come in on time or at all lately, and perhaps he's trying to force you to take responsibility for your actions & timeliness.
I don't see it as UN-caring; rather, I see it as "I care but I won't baby you" attitude. Perhaps he's trying to treat you as an adult rather than as a child. And he's leaving it up to YOU to make the decision to come in. He knows you can get there if you really want to; he's there for you when that happens. But he's not going to force you to go, or cajole you into going. You have to be the one making that decision.
Maybe he sees that as the first step to successful therapy -- you being able to get yourself in to his office when you commit to it. And if you can't manage that, he can't help you with the more difficult things?
That's just another take on the situation. Does that seem possible at all? Of course I don't know him or the situation, so I'm offering conjecture.
Have you decided to go back to him? Or do you think you'll try to find someone new?
I hope it goes well, whatever you decide.
take care,
JenStar
Posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 23:52:33
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering, posted by Phillipa on September 2, 2005, at 19:17:00
Dear Phillipa,
i'm so sorry - flashbacks like that are so hard to get over. It's exactly the same as it happened again. You're so beautiful and sensitive towards others, you don't deserve to have so many hard things :(
((((((((((((Phillipa)))))))))))))
i hope that things have calmed down inside and you're able to heal from the fbs of the terrible memories and they will be replaced with comforting new fun memories.love,
kerria
Posted by Phillipa on September 8, 2005, at 0:11:29
In reply to Re: Crisis - T became so defensive /may be triggering » Phillipa, posted by kerria on September 7, 2005, at 23:52:33
Kerria thanks for thinking of me when you have so many of your own problems. Love Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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