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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by bearfan on October 19, 2010, at 16:22:21
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine), posted by twinleaf on October 18, 2010, at 22:10:18
I can be helpful for maintenance if your depression is not too bad. Although it doesn't provide much 'mind numbness' as other anti-depressants can for stronger episodes.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 19, 2010, at 16:53:29
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by bearfan on October 19, 2010, at 16:22:21
What I'm looking for is something that reduces the intensity of my _____? responses--the sort of phenomena that troubles ptsd, a.k.a 'my nerves are shot'.
I have benzo's now. Reduced them for quite awhile, and with this latest big depressive slide, it's all I have in my tool kit. Last night I dug out my old bottle of klonopine, and this morning remembered why I had quit it :(
Good news is, I think, this might be as low as I go. Cross my heart, hope to fly.
I'm very pleased twinleaf began this thread.
Why haven't I heard much about this?
Posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2010, at 20:06:00
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » Phillipa, posted by SLS on October 19, 2010, at 10:36:25
Scott do I detect that your meds are starting to work? Phillipa
Posted by bearfan on October 19, 2010, at 21:19:26
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » SLS, posted by Phillipa on October 19, 2010, at 20:06:00
Yes Scott, I remember reading a post where you were having problems with Parnate. I am interested to hear what is working for you at the moment.
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by bearfan on October 19, 2010, at 21:19:26
> Yes Scott, I remember reading a post where you were having problems with Parnate. I am interested to hear what is working for you at the moment.
I added agomelatine (Valdoxan) to my regime. The antidepressant effect is currently mild at best. However, it is early. I have been taking agomelatine for only 10 days. I wouldn't want to guarantee what it is about this drug that allows it to exert an antidepressant effect. For now, it seems that melatonin M1 and M2 receptor stimulation and serotonin 5-HT2c blockade are both important as per elegantly designed studies.
I would like to give things another 2-4 weeks to measure the degree and persistence of the treatment adjustment. I am currently taking 25mg. As per the manufacturer's instructions, I will raise the dosage to 50mg after 2 weeks should the improvement plateau or wane.
Current treatment regime:
Nardil 90mg
nortriptyline 150mg
Lamictal 200mg
agomelatine 25mgIt turns out that the only other person I know of for whom agomelatine is producing a robust therapeutic response is also taking Nardil 90mg.
I have been losing sleep because of the sleep disruptions agomelatine is known to produce early in treatment. I have been moderately sleep deprived for a few days. It is possible that this is what is responsible for the mild improvement I am now experiencing. For some people, sleep deprivation can induce a transient antidepressant effect. It can even precipitate mania in certain individuals.
I am cautiously optimistic. If the current improvement persists for longer than 3 days, I will become less cautious in my optimism.
Crossed-fingers, well wishes, and prayers for me are welcome.
:-)
- Scott
Posted by sigismund on October 20, 2010, at 14:14:32
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
>I have been losing sleep because of the sleep disruptions agomelatine is known to produce early in treatment.
My two bob's worth is that the melatonin agonism is helpful to sleep and the 5ht2c antagonism can be disruptive of it (through the well known dopaminergic effect).
The first time I took 25mg and slept for an hour or two and then was awake for the night.
When I took 12.5mg thereafter my sleep was brilliant (for a while).
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 14:54:02
In reply to Agomelatine » SLS, posted by sigismund on October 20, 2010, at 14:14:32
> >I have been losing sleep because of the sleep disruptions agomelatine is known to produce early in treatment.
>
> My two bob's worth is that the melatonin agonism is helpful to sleep and the 5ht2c antagonism can be disruptive of it (through the well known dopaminergic effect).
>
> The first time I took 25mg and slept for an hour or two and then was awake for the night.
>
> When I took 12.5mg thereafter my sleep was brilliant (for a while).How would you describe the quality of your therapeutic response to agomelatine? Are you still taking it? Is 12.5mg as effective for you as 25mg?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Tomatheus on October 20, 2010, at 15:53:45
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
Scott,
It's good to hear that you're experiencing some benefits from agomelatine, even though the antidepressant effect is only mild. I will keep my fingers crossed that the improvement that you've noticed continues.
Tomatheus
Posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 18:37:06
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » SLS, posted by Tomatheus on October 20, 2010, at 15:53:45
> Scott,
>
> It's good to hear that you're experiencing some benefits from agomelatine, even though the antidepressant effect is only mild. I will keep my fingers crossed that the improvement that you've noticed continues.
Thanks.:-)
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on October 20, 2010, at 18:51:12
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
Scott that's great this is the one!!!! Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 1:13:55
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
> Crossed-fingers, well wishes, and prayers for me are welcome.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - ScottAll of the above on their way with more to come :)
Posted by Bob on October 21, 2010, at 1:20:44
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 5:29:21
> > Yes Scott, I remember reading a post where you were having problems with Parnate. I am interested to hear what is working for you at the moment.
>
> I added agomelatine (Valdoxan) to my regime. The antidepressant effect is currently mild at best. However, it is early. I have been taking agomelatine for only 10 days. I wouldn't want to guarantee what it is about this drug that allows it to exert an antidepressant effect. For now, it seems that melatonin M1 and M2 receptor stimulation and serotonin 5-HT2c blockade are both important as per elegantly designed studies.
>
> I would like to give things another 2-4 weeks to measure the degree and persistence of the treatment adjustment. I am currently taking 25mg. As per the manufacturer's instructions, I will raise the dosage to 50mg after 2 weeks should the improvement plateau or wane.
>
> Current treatment regime:
>
> Nardil 90mg
> nortriptyline 150mg
> Lamictal 200mg
> agomelatine 25mg
>
> It turns out that the only other person I know of for whom agomelatine is producing a robust therapeutic response is also taking Nardil 90mg.
>
> I have been losing sleep because of the sleep disruptions agomelatine is known to produce early in treatment. I have been moderately sleep deprived for a few days. It is possible that this is what is responsible for the mild improvement I am now experiencing. For some people, sleep deprivation can induce a transient antidepressant effect. It can even precipitate mania in certain individuals.
>
> I am cautiously optimistic. If the current improvement persists for longer than 3 days, I will become less cautious in my optimism.
>
> Crossed-fingers, well wishes, and prayers for me are welcome.
>
> :-)
>
>
> - Scott
>
I'm pullin' for you and everyone else on this board. I'd love to hear about a novel drug like Valdoxan making a difference. Please keep us apprised.- Bob
Posted by sigismund on October 21, 2010, at 2:09:50
In reply to Re: Agomelatine » sigismund, posted by SLS on October 20, 2010, at 14:54:02
>How would you describe the quality of your therapeutic response to agomelatine? Are you still taking it? Is 12.5mg as effective for you as 25mg?
My guess, Scott, is that ago will only be a little useful to you and that it might make sense to restrict your hopes to some improvement in sleep and a bit of dopaminergic push.
My response has changed over time. I have taken it for a year or two in doses that have ranged from 12.5mg/d to 50mg/d.
The initial response was impressive, by which I mean that I liked it and other people remarked that I was looking better.
Sleep was greatly improved......I slept normally.So what happened? (I mean with the sleep).
I don't know. I have a theory that my consumption of baicall skullcap (which I need for allergies) inhibits the enzyme which metabolises ago leading to higher concentrations of it, leading to tolerance of some of the effects, leading to bad sleep again. I still feel the dopaminergic thing.I'm currently on 25mg.
12.5 would not be as effective but it would not be a problem lowering it.
There seems to be little or no discontinuation syndrome.I don't have much experience with ADs. Only a little Parnate, tianeptine, agomelatine and the alternative things. If things got bad for me I'd try Nardil.
It's pathetic we know so little about sleep, and a pity the options are not better.
I went to ask a patient to look at Trazodone (some libido or more likely capacity wouldn't hurt) but it sounded so weird and awful I wasn't keen to try it.
Posted by sigismund on October 21, 2010, at 2:16:26
In reply to Re: Agomelatine » SLS, posted by sigismund on October 21, 2010, at 2:09:50
> other people remarked that I was looking better.
because I was much calmer.
But that is not a case of more is better, at least not in the first few months.
I found that 25mg/d (as opposed to 12.5 or 2/3 of a tablet) initially gave me a bad feeling, in the afternoons especially. It was different to normal anxiety. It seems in retrospect to be a good idea to let ones body find its own level.............I would have been better to have stayed longer at 12.5mg/d.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 2:29:46
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine), posted by twinleaf on October 18, 2010, at 22:10:18
Twinleaf, I'm behind the beat here, I guess, but stablon in any form is unobtainable in the us? Is this true?
Oh arrrgh.
Posted by SLS on October 21, 2010, at 2:56:42
In reply to Re: Agomelatine » SLS, posted by sigismund on October 21, 2010, at 2:09:50
> >How would you describe the quality of your therapeutic response to agomelatine? Are you still taking it? Is 12.5mg as effective for you as 25mg?
>
> My guess, Scott, is that ago will only be a little useful to you and that it might make sense to restrict your hopes to some improvement in sleep and a bit of dopaminergic push.That sounds about right. I am already experiencing diminishing returns. Of course, I'm hoping that it is a temporary worsening.
> The initial response was impressive, by which I mean that I liked it and other people remarked that I was looking better.> Sleep was greatly improved......I slept normally.
If for some reason you need to discontinue agomelatine, but would still like the sleep-enhancing effects of a melatonin M1/M2 agonist, you could opt for ramelteon (Rozerem). Of course, you may not glean an antidepressant effect from it.
Thanks for taking the time to respond. Very useful info.
Be well.
- Scott
Posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2010, at 7:06:48
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » twinleaf, posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 2:29:46
That's true. It is made by the French company Servier and can be legally purchased online. Psychiatrists can provide a prescription for it for you to enclose
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 9:13:29
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » floatingbridge, posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2010, at 7:06:48
Posted by Ernie D. on October 21, 2010, at 15:32:03
In reply to Stablon (tianeptine), posted by twinleaf on October 18, 2010, at 22:10:18
I trial Stablon for 4 weeks at 12.5mg/ 3x day and then an additional 2 weeks at 25mg / 3x day. No side effects-no benefits. I found it to be a sugar pill. I have now been taking 12.5mg of Agomelatine for a bout 9 months - not sure if it does anyting. Also trialed Trivastal for 3 weeks -found that to be a sugar pill as well. I think meds made by Servier tend to be very mild.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 17:00:09
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by Ernie D. on October 21, 2010, at 15:32:03
Are agomelatine and stablon in the same category?
Sounds like they aren't quite enough for you, Ernie. Are you formulating a new med combo?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 22, 2010, at 3:48:30
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » twinleaf, posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 17:00:34
> Twinleaf, I'm behind the beat here, I guess, but stablon in any form is unobtainable in the us? Is this true?
>
> Oh arrrgh.
>
>floatingbridge... I'm (kinda) in a similar boat to you, i.e. ADD, major depression and also some PTSD-like symptoms. I found neurontin helped to control the weird 24-hour-long surges of adrenaline that hit me when we immigrated recently, but I was also sleeping 12 hours a day and constantly sedated.
I'm not in the US, so can't advise you on obtaining it legally, but I've just ordered a month's worth of Stablon to trial after being interested in the drug for the past 3 years. I'll let you know if it's useful for any of my ailments.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 22, 2010, at 12:42:41
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » twinleaf, posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 17:00:34
> Twinleaf, I'm behind the beat here, I guess, but stablon in any form is unobtainable in the us? Is this true?
>
> Oh arrrgh.
>
>Opppps.
Posted by floatingbridge on October 22, 2010, at 12:45:58
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine) » floatingbridge, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 22, 2010, at 3:48:30
g_g_g, that would be great. And I know I'm not the only one who's curious. I hope it works well for you. Thanks :)
>
> floatingbridge... I'm (kinda) in a similar boat to you, i.e. ADD, major depression and also some PTSD-like symptoms. I found neurontin helped to control the weird 24-hour-long surges of adrenaline that hit me when we immigrated recently, but I was also sleeping 12 hours a day and constantly sedated.
>
> I'm not in the US, so can't advise you on obtaining it legally, but I've just ordered a month's worth of Stablon to trial after being interested in the drug for the past 3 years. I'll let you know if it's useful for any of my ailments.
>
>
Posted by sigismund on October 22, 2010, at 22:28:04
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by floatingbridge on October 21, 2010, at 17:00:09
I took tianeptine for a year or two.
It made me feel a bit nice.
Later it tended to make me anxious. Then I stopped over a period of time.
Tianeptine and agomelatine have a somewhat similar feel and side effect profile (for me). Neither has much of a discontinuation syndrome.
Posted by sigismund on October 22, 2010, at 22:32:02
In reply to Re: Stablon (tianeptine), posted by Ernie D. on October 21, 2010, at 15:32:03
>Also trialed Trivastal for 3 weeks -found that to be a sugar pill as well.
I liked that one too :)
>I think meds made by Servier tend to be very mild.
Could be. Seem pretty tolerable.
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