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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 11:57:59
I have to finish things I'm working on. One of my biggest problems is that I work on stuff forever, and keep changing it and supposedly making it better, but rather waffling, groping, drifting, changing back and forth and back.
I'm giving the hours it should take (or I'd like it to, and think reasonable) on each drawing that I'm working on now, with a baseline and a limit.
One main goal is to be more aware of the time used, what I'm trying to accomplish in any session, and also how I"m doing relative to the whole. also what parts I'm doing/redoing and what parts I'm neglecting completely.
I can't go on forever anymore, because I don't have forever, and I really need to feel that I've gotten somewhere.
1. Drawing A (drawing of Debbi/now Holly)-- 15 hour target, 18 hour limit. I've done 1 hour today.
Need to do: head, arm, part of knee,foot
2. Drawing B (Kelly,assuming Kelly comes back/I can ever work with her again without getting too upset)-- 15 hours target, 21 hours absolute limitNeed to do, head, left shoulder, hands. slightly adjust parts.
3. Drawing C (Chiche)-- 30 hours target (? 10 times), 39 hour limit (13 times).
Still at the beginning, but I'm going to make this a super-quick drawing. [Maybe this number of hours won't work out. Revisit. but not going to take forever.]
Yeah.
4. Drawing D (Sarah)-- . I don't know- probably need a less draconian point-- getting it sketched in, right composition-- have to think after I see her next week.
I'll record my progress.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 12:07:28
In reply to Work, posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 11:57:59
Worked with Jennifer (Chiche) yesterday, 2:30-5pm
spent first half hour trying to get my shoulder taped up.
But was pretty concentrated afterward. although took too much time trying to get the pose to work for her. She says it hurts her neck, and the other way (lower on pillow) hurts her shoulder (stretches it).
Think I"m getting the overall movement of the pose though, and we did reach some understanding about how to do the post, so I hope it wasn't wasted time. Have to adhere to the understanding, not let it waver.
We tried both angles. At the end, I managed to say that we needed to stabilize the pose, because I'll start to lose it if it doesn't become solid one way or the other. Because after the last change, I started to feel that-- so, even if I said it rather stupidly, I did say it. She said that she didn't mind if it bothered her a little at the end-- which was a relief, because I worried that her expectations of how perfectly comfortable it could be after 3 hours were unrealistic. So I'm going to try not to be bothered by knowing (and being able to tell,which is the greater problem) that she's not completely comfortable. I'm liking her a lot more. (thinking about the older sister thing)
she did understand at one point, when I said her right knee has to go closer to her left knee (bottom knee) that the reason was it shifted the position of her hips-- which I think she didn't understand before (I didn't either-- but she understood the idea that the change was overall, not just in where her knee exactly was).
2. today Holly is coming from 2-5pm, so I'd better get ready soon.
3. I have to try to work tonight on the collages (I hope) even if the heart thing is bothering me, cause it's lasting forever, and I can't not work-- it's starting to seriously depress me that I"m getting nothing done on that.uhhoh I think the Yankees must be playing. hope they don't lose. (although I'll see a lot more of SigO if they lose.)
Jost
Posted by Poet on October 7, 2006, at 12:33:48
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 12:07:28
Hi Jost,
I'm reading your progress reports. You're working on a lot of projects and time on each one even if it's not hours on end counts.
I'm not a baseball fan, but I hope the Yankees win and SigO takes you out to celebrate!
Poet
Posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 20:50:32
In reply to Re: Work » Jost, posted by Poet on October 7, 2006, at 12:33:48
Well, Poet--turns out Sig was listening to/watching a video on youtube about an incident at Columbia, in which the students "rushed the stage" and unfurled an uncivil banner and then were rushed themselves by a group of Young Republicans--who had invited the speaker--pandemonium then breaking out-- and well-- making "us" look bad--,which he bemoans as the end of civilization-- . I personally am rather sympathetic banner wavers-- but I've always been much more of a left-fringer than he is.
However, he is now even less happy, because the Yankees did lose. He's morose, because their pitching wasn't good-- and they wanted to win so (too) much-- and Arod (however you spell that--it's sounds obscene, but whatever)-- can't handle the pressure of NY and neither can one of their pitchers, who hasn't produced-- and well--
But I do have to do a report on my work today, ugh.
I"m so confused about it, right now. I have to change the way I handle, and work on things-- a lot.
Maybe he'll take me out for a beer and we can commmiserate (three ms are for extra).
Jost
Posted by Dinah on October 8, 2006, at 12:15:59
In reply to Work, posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 11:57:59
I really admire how you schedule your time. A big part of my problem is time management, and even being aware of the passage of time. I have no concept of time as it passes, and even less ability to judge how long something will take.
So I'm impressed that you can even set a schedule, much less stick to it.
Posted by Jost on October 8, 2006, at 14:13:13
In reply to Re: Work » Jost, posted by Dinah on October 8, 2006, at 12:15:59
The part of the schedule where people come-- I schedule in advance--
the part that's more flexible is the problem-- ie making progress, as opposed to going around endlessly forever.
Yesterday, I had trouble getting the post to be right. It's one of my biggest obstacles. I really have trouble saying, that something isn't right. I feel so stupidly apologetic, when I don't feel I have anything to apologize for-- I mean, it needs to be more or less right. And then I often have to say the same thing over and over-- people tend to fall into several places with any one pose. And these places don't seeem to feel significantly different to them-- or they do, and the one I like is slightly more uncomfortable, so occurs less often.
These different poses can be very close (from the point of view of the model)--but are radically different from my point of view. So, yesterday. I had asked H the last time( Thursday) to have her head so that I was looking down onto it, not up into it. This is a question of the rotation of her chin/neck, so that I (standing above her) am looking more onto the top of her head, or, if she bends her neck the other way, am looking up slightly into her forehead. (I'm having trouble expressing this, but I showed her in a photo I had taken of the pose, and also myself--and had her do both, and explained the difference..)
I thought she understood. But yesterday, she was posing for about 35 minutes, and after about 20 minutes, she moved and put her head back so it was much less down-- in the next 35 minutes, she put her head so it was bent back, and I was looking up into her head, which is much less what I'm trying to get. I tried to work with it, but it was too much opposite, so I finally got myself to tell her again. I reworked the pillow to get it right, and we talked about her arm placement, etc-- then she did the same thing after about 15 minutes. So I said, is you head more comfortable in this position or the other position. I don't think she knew what I mean, but I think she didn't want to admit that, so after some hesitation, she said, "this position." Now "this" was what I didn't want-- but I decided, well she seems to keep doing that, so maybe I should just do that-- I just want to do Something here, not back-and-forth.
So started to change it that way.
Then the next time, she totally did it the way I wanted. I decided to say nothing, change to what I wnated, and work on insisting that she just do it that way-- no matter what-- until she remembers the difference, and which is the right way.
So that was a disaster so far.
Second problem yesterday: Light. PUT THE LIGHTON WHEN YOU'RE IN THE CORNER AND THERE'S NO LIGHT.
Third problem: Paper. Damn it. The paper was worn almost through, and was so thin as to be unstable. I bought this supposed ground that's good for pastel, charcoal pencil, etc. I used it on K drawing and tried it yesterday on this drawing. It's Horrible. I can work on it. So that's a disaster. Toward the end, I just glued another piece of Somerset underneath and started tearing through the top layer. It's a really awful consaquence of my messing everything up all the time-- but have to do it.
This drawing has been with De, M, J (chiche), and now H. How many heads have I done and undone-- of each of them? How many heads have I done on this paper that's now giving out-- how many drawings don't exist because of this? this is what' sdepressing.
Fourth Problem: I don't feel entirely comfortable with H. She';s also ready told me one untrue thing-- which I know because she later told me the "same" information-- but it was completely incompatible with her first version, and you could see the effect she was trying to create each time.She's super-sweet on the surface,and really steely underneath. Sort of scary. Cause I think she's entirely capable of cutting someone off-- and feeling very justified. This is one of the main differences between models now and models 6 years ago-- I'm working with younger people-- and they have this sort of zero-sum, or self-interest approach-- they do what's good for them, and there isn't this sense of loyalty-- or sticking with it. There's this sense-- I have to look out for myself, and it's cutthroat world and I don't have time for ephermera such as loyalty, your project and the commitment I made to your doing it, which counts, as well as my doing my own. etc.
She also has this somewhat cynical view-- underneath her "sweet, scared young girl" persona. It scares me, cause I';d rather deal with the steely part, but then I'm scared of that too.
Dont' know. So today's mess will be with J (Chiche).
Last night I got extremely depressed about how few drawings I've ever managed to finish. Like maybe 5 or 6--in my lifetime. Which is absurd and pathetic. Not that it helps much to think in those terms.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 17:09:52
In reply to Re: Work » Dinah, posted by Jost on October 8, 2006, at 14:13:13
Damn. So now Holly seems more interested. Called me Jxxx, not my full name, in her latest email. I don't know I'm just bummed about the whole thing.
Scheduling mixups are too hard for me. I can't do it. My head hurts from the whole thing of people not coming, cancelling, wanting to work at the same time-- and otherwise not at all.
I get too discouraged and everything is tenuous.
so Holly is coming Sunday. She could have worked this afternoon, which would have been great. But there's always this tenuousness.
anyway, I can't write either.
Maybe if I just remember to get some spot lights this afternoon.
Like right away, since it 's so late.
Kelly probably won't come next week on Friday, and it guess it's not worth trying to put it out there that she's not.
uh.
Did I mention I threw out the drawing of Liesbeth on Tuesday? Yeah. It was just a useless mess. I have to go and find the highest weight Somerset, and forget finding anything else.I think I"ve got to find a better name. I hate this name.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 14, 2006, at 23:07:32
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 17:09:52
So: work.
A new model today. afterward it occurred to me that I don't question it-- it's taken for granted, if the person is plausible, I'll do it.
I asked how she knows Ma. Seemed they didn't know one another well. Although both she and H. are in the Ensemble-- which could prove a source of uneasiness, even messiness.
I thought she was going to be 5'6" tall, which was nice, because I like taller models, but she was extremely short. Guess Jeffrey misheard, or she misspoke. I asked her how tall she was and she said 54 cms. That sounded remarkable, since it was about 20"-- but turned out she was 1 meter 54 cms., which about 5'. Might be more, but she isn't. (Most dancers seem to add an inch or two.) For sure. Then I thought about doing the drawing of M, from long ago. M was extremely short, but much more dynamic, although S. was a competitive gymnast (in Chile, not the US).
She said she was interested in the "release" technique-- not Graham technique that much-- and when I asked said ummm. Then that it was a little "floppy." Don't know why she chose the word, but
Reminded me of when J. B. complained of "downtown dancers" as "sloppy,floppy dancers"--
S couldn't make a pose. I brought out a lot of old sketches-- and showed her a bunch. She seemed confounded. So I said I'd leave her alone for awhile, so she wouldn't feel pressure of my waiting. She did something rather banal, which normally, I wouldn't do, but it was a pose, and I can do the M post. It's not that hard, only hard to set up-- and she seems strong.
I worked on the pose anyway, because I wish I could see and draw three dimensional space. My brain isn't working, or my eye isn't working-- maybe both.
I panicked for a lot of the last part, from feeling so lost with it, don't know if anything got into my head at all, just going over and over it, making boxes, and trying to figure perspective-- and who knows. My old sketches seem better than anything I could do now.
Maybe I've lost interest , or maybe lost it in the particular people.
She was very nice, and has beautiful long, thick, black hair. Unfortunately, I'm not that interested in people's hair--although I wouldn't mind having some like that. She was working at it though-- taking one short break for the last hour, or more?, which was nice.
Maud was much more interesting-- but scary. and finally maddening.
Who knows.
Jost
Posted by Dinah on October 15, 2006, at 10:15:39
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 14, 2006, at 23:07:32
It must be frustrating to have to depend on others for your work that much.
I'm learning a lot about the process from you. I think I had some vague TV version in mind.
Posted by Jost on October 20, 2006, at 7:27:27
In reply to Work, posted by Jost on October 7, 2006, at 11:57:59
Update:
Working more has made a huge difference this week. I can feel myself getting better at seeing, after a long time of feeling as if I can't make anything work.
so far, I''ve worked 6 hrs with H, 6 hours w Jchiche, 3 hours w K.; 3 hours today with H, tomorrow w J, and Sunday, I hope S. (Not counting working on the collage-- maybe for most people not a lot, but a lot for me)
I had planned to work today 6 hours, but K called yesterday and said:
I'm in Phila. on a gig, and they need me to work tomorrow too, so I won't be able to work with you. My agent only booked me for Thursday, but now they need me, so I Have To stay. I know you've been frustrated by my not being available, but I won't be coming. I'll be in touch about next week.
I'm not sure if she realizes that I won't work with her any more. She may think I can't stop, because I need her for the drawing, but I"ve decided.
I've accomplished almost nothing this year because of Sylvia, Liesbeth, Sarah and Kelly, cancelling and being unavailable after asking me to put aside times, etc etc-- but continuing to make commitments for "after the next few weeks," or "starting at x time"-- so I haven't looked for other people to work with . I'm not going to let that happen, and definitely not going to work with Sarah or Kelly any more.
I have to handle things very differently.
So far, I've been a little better with H and J, at least about the pose. If I could work better and more consistently on that, it would make things so much much better-- and just working more. This year has been so wasteful of my time and energy and I haven't taken my work seriously-- just let it be ruined.
I have got to stop letting everything drift away.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 23, 2006, at 20:10:07
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 20, 2006, at 7:27:27
Ugh.
So Saturday I felt good when I was working, and it felt like the work was going somewhere for the first time in years.
Today was more of the same old not going anywhere.
I don't know why I can't get anything together, or just be able to do something that just works.
bummer.
Plus I don't understand anything about faces and am too lazy to figure it out. And the paper is just impossible to make marks on. Etc etc etc.
and anyway why does Bob Dyan have to be so good at what he does and why do I have to be so crummy.
Ohnevermind.
Jost
Posted by Jost on October 24, 2006, at 2:21:26
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 23, 2006, at 20:10:07
But maybe I'm getting depressed because I had a good day. I have to consider my patterns, and ways of undermining progress.
So I'm going to study the facial bones and muscles tonight and tomorrow.
Maybe tomorrow will be better.
J
Posted by Dinah on October 24, 2006, at 11:49:40
In reply to Re: Work, posted by Jost on October 24, 2006, at 2:21:26
That sounds like a good solid step to take to help you feel more positive.
Posted by Jost on October 26, 2006, at 12:41:00
In reply to Re: Work » Jost, posted by Dinah on October 24, 2006, at 11:49:40
Talked to my T about H.
his point was that she's being helpful, even though she's not helping because she doesn't know how to help. So I guess the idea is to try to channel her helpfulness so that it has good effects.
I also realized that I have to manage my emotions with her, in a way. She's a tense, but strangely unbuttoned (wrong word in the context, but it fits emotionally) person--
For one thing, I need to be warm, friendly and interested-- and not let my tension and self-criticism show. She's sensitive to my receptivity to her-- she seemed very strained and ill-at-ease when I was having trouble (and annoyed with her)-- I may be wrong-- but it feels that way right now. I made a conscious effort to be interested, relaxed, more talky with her than I feel. For some reason.
at about 5:40, when I was working really hard, and getting somewhere, but it was very tense because of how hard the pose was to do three days in a row-- and because of how anxious I am with other people's difficulty or discomfort--the cleaning lady knocked on the door.
[I should add, we hired a cleaning lady a little while ago-- she's okay, not that great at cleaning but good enough for us-- and yet she's started to be a little unfriendly to me-- sort of like she gets annoyed that I'm in her way-- while I"m trying to be very considerate and not get into her way-- and then she gets this irritated look on her face if I do come into the room-- but anyway]
My SigO had told her not to come into the studio because I was working until 6 pm-- and she obviously wasn't liking that-- she probably wants to leave early-- and that meant she couldn't "finish up" and leave early-- so at 5:40, she knocked on the door. I didn't initially hear it-- but H did-- and I have a lot of strong feelings about having thing interrupted when someone is modelling-- it's like an inviolable boundary-- that matters to me--
So I went to the door, and she was looking angry, and gesticulated about "Clean?" (She doesn't speak much English-- although it's not clear how not-much, but defiinitely not much)-- and I said, I"m working-- and she still looked angry and said "Clean?" And I said, do you want to leave-- etc-- so I told her she could leave, but I wasn't done--
but then my concentration was really broken, and I was disturbed by her affect, and the whole thing--
So I stopped working early, and the instant H left, she knocked again. I was trying to move things out of the way, and fix it so she wouldn't bump into my easel, or stools where I put things-- etc--
At the door, she had her hands on her hips and was even more annoyed-- She was again very rude--
I guess she cleaned, while I went into my room and waited for her to leave. Not long after.
What was odd was H was really fascinated with what would happen after she left. She wanted to "talk" about it the next time-- as if it were some sort of climactic scene-- I was rather uneasy about that-- I'm not sure what she expected-- or why it struck her as interesting.
She has said a lot of things about M to me-- that aren't careful-- sort of the "talking behind someone's back" type thing-- which is hard to resist-- because I'm worried about M-- but it also becomes a way to relate to someone more easily-- as if you're avoiding some uncomfortable thing between you by talking sort of intrusively about someone else. I fall into that if someone else does. But I don't like it.
I'm learning a lot about doing faces, though. I think I am anyway. Hope so.
J
This is the end of the thread.
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