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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 9:48:15
Long before I ever began to even suspect that I had any type of psychiatric problem, I was plainly aware of physical symptoms. I'd be incredibly tired, shaky, flushed, and had constant stomach pains. This then spread into more "mental" domains, such as dizziness, sensory distortion, derealization, and general foggy-headedness. Only after many fruitless medical tests (for "physical" disorders) did I begin to associate it all with what had by then become a growing sense of apathy and deep sadness, and it was only after SSRI treatment alleviated almost all of my symptoms that I appreciated the connection. Overall, I'd say that the emotional side of my disorder accounted for maybe 10% of my symptomology. Nowadays, it seems to have smoothed out, with a nice 25/75 split between mood and physical/cognitive symptoms. Still, mood is the least of my problems (though as my last post suggests, it's not trivial).
Most of the issues I see people writing about here are mood related. Does anyone else feel predominantly physical (or sensory) problems? What's your split?
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 10:09:08
In reply to somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 9:48:15
I guess it depends on how you define physical. I'm napping most every time I sit down right now. I can't even begin to guess how long I'm sleeping a day. When I am awake, I'm sluggish, can't seem to get thoughts to make it all the way through my brain. My sense of time seems distorted. I set out to brush my teeth and eat breakfast and in what feels like a few minutes later, an hour has gone by and I realize I've forgotten to eat breakfast anyway. What did I do for an hour? Then time will move it's ordinary way for a while, then back to either fast speed, or I'm in slow motion.
I can't remember anything. I can't even remember if I've remembered something. I just found out my dog may go blind because I haven't been giving her drops regularly. And I couldn't even tell the vet how often I've been forgetting them, because I just can't remember how forgetful I've been.
I feel sick and weak. I just don't feel well. In fact I looked up "don't feel well" on the internet last night. Wasn't all that helpful. I walk places and forget why I've come. This is usually a post-meltdown phase that lasts a week or so, but it's been longer than that now.
During meltdown there is a physical component, too. My skin feels like it's burning and needs to be cut. Smells are way too intense. The wind hurts my arms.
Is that the sort of thing you mean?
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 10:14:03
In reply to somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 9:48:15
Oh yeah, and I have this odd feeling that my skull is too tight for my brain.
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 11:14:11
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 10:09:08
> I guess it depends on how you define physical.
---------------Anything that's independant of emotion.
>Then time will move it's ordinary way for a while, then back to either fast speed, or I'm in slow motion.
------------I've had periods much like that. I find myself yawning and squinting a lot when things feel that way.
> I can't remember anything. I can't even remember if I've remembered something.
----------Amen to that. Even more so since I've been on Celexa, I find myself at a loss to remember something I had just been thinking 3 seconds ago after a distration interrupts me. Before that, it was mostly forgetting things other people told me, and that was probably because I wasn't listening fully. I've always been the person who shows up to class to find it empty, and wondering why.
> I feel sick and weak. I just don't feel well. In fact I looked up "don't feel well" on the internet last night. Wasn't all that helpful.
----------------That was how I felt several years ago. Just walking around the block was a strain. Always drained, unable to think, losing weight. I thought I was dying. It's not so bad nowadays, but I still have periods where I just feel "malaise."
> During meltdown there is a physical component, too. My skin feels like it's burning and needs to be cut. Smells are way too intense. The wind hurts my arms.
-------------Extreme agitation? The closest I've felt to that is a general feeling of discomfort, like things are plain wrong. Bright lights give me grief (and of course, I live in Florida). How long does that phase last for you?
> Is that the sort of thing you mean?
----------Precisely. Wouldn't you rather trade in all those symptoms for simple moroseness? I guess the grass is always greener. If nothing else, just to have a respite from one or ther other for more than a day or two.
It's so hard to describe some of the more subtle issues, too. Right now, for instance, I feel like my head is too light and disintigrated, it's too cold, my senses are dulled, and the world is slightly beyond me.
On an entirely different topic, do you ever feel like your life lacks continuity? For example, I can't really remember anything about being in high school. Granted, it was 12 years ago, but everyone else has stories about their experiences. I feel like that all happened to someone else, or that I was sleeping through it. It doesn't seem real or relevant to me. I have a few isolated memories of events, but mostly it feels like general knowledge about what happened, and not experience. Like someone told me. All I can relate to is what's happened to me in the last month or so, or sometimes nothing at all. Does that make any sense?
Posted by Willow on May 7, 2003, at 12:10:15
In reply to comisseration and continuity » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 11:14:11
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/auto.html
this link was meant for children, but you'll probably find it helpful in understanding why you get the physcial symptoms. me, i'm in the same boat, mostly physical almosst 100%, until I've added effexor and clonazepam.
off for nap, fatigue is a b*&#*
Wilting Willow
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 12:28:11
In reply to physical symptoms, posted by Willow on May 7, 2003, at 12:10:15
> http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/auto.html
I love the little icons of the guy running from the (tumbleweed?) and the guy sleeping.
Posted by Snoozy on May 7, 2003, at 15:14:54
In reply to somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 9:48:15
I have both physical ailments and mood ailments. I don't know if I could really put a number on it. Sometimes the mood is worse, but many times the physical is worse than the mood.
This makes treatment difficult, because drugs that help one condition usually make another worse. I have to say, ok, what makes me feel least miserable and like I want to chop off my head? It makes me think of two little kids in the backseat on a long car trip: the depression is complaining it wants the window down, the migraines scream roll up the window, just back-and-forth pointless bickering.
Bright sunny days are excruciating to be outside on. It feels like the sun rays are just stabbing through my eyes and my head. My eyes start involuntarily tearing really badly and I want to go live with the mole people.
My mind is so disconnected sometimes I will dream I've told someone something or done something, and later something will happen to make me realize I didn't do it, it was a dream.
Memories of things like high school are weird. I remember things, but it's like I'm remembering something I saw in a movie - it doesn't feel like oh yes, I remember when this happened.
I always wonder if other people who grew up during the Cold War have had the same feeling I did. I was depressed as all get out, but I always believed I would never live to be 21 because there would be a nuclear war. So I might not have to bother with the fuss of suicide. And now it looks like we might have another little Cold War. Ah, sweet dreams of childhood.
I feel like I'm rambling here, but I've got this ice pick going through my head (metaphorically).
> Long before I ever began to even suspect that I had any type of psychiatric problem, I was plainly aware of physical symptoms. I'd be incredibly tired, shaky, flushed, and had constant stomach pains. This then spread into more "mental" domains, such as dizziness, sensory distortion, derealization, and general foggy-headedness. Only after many fruitless medical tests (for "physical" disorders) did I begin to associate it all with what had by then become a growing sense of apathy and deep sadness, and it was only after SSRI treatment alleviated almost all of my symptoms that I appreciated the connection. Overall, I'd say that the emotional side of my disorder accounted for maybe 10% of my symptomology. Nowadays, it seems to have smoothed out, with a nice 25/75 split between mood and physical/cognitive symptoms. Still, mood is the least of my problems (though as my last post suggests, it's not trivial).
> Most of the issues I see people writing about here are mood related. Does anyone else feel predominantly physical (or sensory) problems? What's your split?
Posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 15:21:17
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » Eddie Sylvano, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 10:09:08
Re: physical vs. emotional -
I've definitely had times when I feel worse physically than emotionally and it is probably due to depression (or whatever name/s my psychiatrist has written down to label my black cloud).
Then, there are other periods of time when I feel worse mentally/emotionally than physically (that pretty much describes my state of affairs since mid-March).
I know that some of my symptoms are due to early menopause but I really wish I could separate which ones are menopause-related and which others are depression-related. I'm not sure why this has become important to me here lately. Maybe because this last period has seemed stronger on the emotional side and I'm scared of the thought of early Alzheimer's as well as early menopause.
Until I went on Wellbutrin I would often come home after taking my son to school and immediately go back to bed for two hours (thank God I've worked at home during this menopausal period). I simply couldn't stay awake. I really feel like that was hormonal with some depression/icing to top it off.
Because my belief system wavers back and forth (and I'm so "spongey" to everything I read) I also wonder about the yin/yang and qi aspect of things, namely, my own qi being out of balance. I've had acupuncture before and it has done wonders but it's so expensive and I get so tired of trotting home with my receipts for the next thing that's going to make me "feel better."
Funny this should be mentioned. Just this morning I was thinking about a book I read several years ago (1996-7) by a doctor who stated that the hardest people to treat in his weight loss practice were those suffering from depression. I wish I could remember the exact quote and which book it was in (I still have the book along with twenty other diet books). It may have had something to do with a slower metabolism due to depression or it may have just been his observations with different patients over the years.
This was one of the first times I realized that depression can be truly physical (I had just started Prozac and couldn't believe my internist's diagnosis of depression versus something else that was making me so weary).
Oh yeah, I think a lot of my stress/anxiety comes out in the form of teenage-like acne as well. I just got home from the dermatologist with yet another prescription (not Accutane, since he said he wouldn't dare add it to the cocktail du jour).
Last note of this disjointed post - Dinah, do you think part of what you're feeling might be due to the diabetes and blood sugar issues?
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 16:27:19
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 15:21:17
Hi Lee,
It occurs to me that it might be blood sugar related. But since I feel the same whether I remember to take my glucophage or not (now that's going to be a major problem), I have to assume it's not related.
It might be related to a change in eating habits though. I'm getting a lot less caffeine and sugar. (scowl)
But I suspect it's more mood related.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 16:29:23
In reply to comisseration and continuity » Dinah, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 11:14:11
Continuity is a major problem for me Eddie. My memories are stored in a mood dependent way. So what I can remember at any given moment really depends on my mood. I can remember the facts, but not really remember. I think you described that so I know you understand what I mean.
It leads to a terribly disjointed life.
Posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 16:48:18
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » leeran, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 16:27:19
Hi Dinah,
When I read this in your post:
"I can't remember anything. I can't even remember if I've remembered something."
I instantly identified. Oh how I HATE that feeling. Sometimes I'm embarrassed to ask my husband or son if I've just told them something! Maybe it's a synapse misfiring (i.e. my thoughts are racing because I THOUGHT I wanted to tell them whatever it was). I also wonder if (for me) it's not a by-product of spending so much time by myself (i.e. all day long).
I have this running (silent, I think :-) dialogue with myself all day that really goes back to childhood (me, myself and I - the kid who could entertain herself). However, in the last four years I've been alone during the day (whereas I used to have an office with an assistant and a partner).
Additionally, I blame those *&%$ feelings of "did I say that or think that or what?" on menopause (perimenopause, since my hormones can't even decide if they want to get off the fence and be done with it for a year straight).
I think I do better with an adrenaline burst - Since I posted my initial response to Eddie I found out that my husband's close childhood friend is going to be here from the East Coast rather unexpectedly this evening (we were expecting him over the weekend).
In this last hour I've gotten more done and burned more calories than I have in the last week! Here's to hoping I can remember where the *&*% I hid everything later.
Lee
p.s. Sometimes I attribute these "weird feelings" to hearing loss (I definitely need a hearing device in one ear at age 44) and my rapidly declining vision (my arms aren't long enough to read menus anymore).
I "inherited" the mental illness gene from my mother's side of the family (heck, probably both sides), the hearing loss from my father's side, the early menopause from my mother's side, the weight battle from my father's side, the a.d.d. from my mother's side, and the hair loss from my father's side. I always felt like such an individual until I turned about thirty seven. Now I'm feeling a bit like a deflated beach ball from the family gene pool.
Posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 17:11:09
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » Dinah, posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 16:48:18
Thanks for the laugh, Lee. I love your sense of humor. Good luck with your guest this evening. I think that degree of adrenaline boost could even make me move.
(And it looks like my dog's eye will be ok, so I just have to be more careful. Somehow.)
Posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 18:07:11
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » leeran, posted by Dinah on May 7, 2003, at 17:11:09
Dinah:
Re: the dog's eyes . . . (although it sounds like you have it completely under control!).
If you use Outlook as your mail program you can use reminders that pop-up everyday. The only problem is, in my case, I've conditioned myself to ignore them (just yesterday I deleted a task that was never accomplished, no longer pertinent and eleven months old).
My latest "aid" in keeping myself on task is a 5 x 8 notecard that I update (i.e. rewrite) every few days. Rewriting all the tasks I haven't yet accomplished makes me feel guilty enough (sort of) to try to actually get some things done. I even include mundane things like "take ____ out to do her business," "make bed," "floss teeth," etc. Then, when I cross them off with my yellow highlighter I feel a small sense of accomplishment. The dark side of that coin is that if I misspell a word or number something incorrectly I have to fight the urge to start the card all over again (it's easy to match the acronym with that behavior).
I have this fantasy . . .
It's that everything will one day be perfectly organized and in its place. Every drawer, closet, the garage, etc.
The fantasy continues with me ridding myself of every extraneous item that I don't use on a regular basis. Here's where the fantasy turns in to a nightmare. My mother used to say something similar when she was about my age. It's not really a nightmare (that was dramatizing), but I'm so keen on being different than she is that I wince at anything that smacks of one of her philosophies.
On a somewhat different note -
Does anyone else ever feel totally stressed out by routines/regimens for a child/family member that you're responsible for overseeing?
I'm sure it has everything to do with A.D.D., or being a spoiled only child, but somedays keeping myself on track is such an overwhelming ordeal that anything else leaves me rather bewildered.
I mean, I do it and no one knows the difference (until now, since this is yet another board confession). For example, my morning ritual (before I even fully wake up) is taking my son's Adderall in to him to take before his alarm clock goes off. What will he/I do when he's in college (crossing my fingers he will have the desire to go)? Pad down the dorm hallway to his room carrying a pill tray? The orthodontist told me to remind him constantly about his rubber bands but I admit - I forget to nag. Even at fifteen, I'm listening to the faucet in the bathroom to make sure he's washed his hands after years of reminders - so adding rubber bands to the equation, along with homework, taking the trash out, flossing/brushing etc. can make my head spin (he's a lot better than he was when he was younger and I have all the old "standards" memorized into habit - it's the new stuff that's in danger of ending up in the black hole).
I have nothing but total admiration for people who can keep it all together with more than one child.
I would love to know just one tip, from anyone who is willing to share, that helps you K.I.T. "keep it together" (I loved that line in Bowfinger and I use it fairly often as one of my repeat phrases when I'm freaking out about something).
My tip is the 5 X 8 card and a highlighter - plus, sub-lists on 3 X 5 cards (and meds).
Lee
Posted by judy1 on May 8, 2003, at 13:13:38
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » Dinah, posted by leeran on May 7, 2003, at 18:07:11
I'm a huge fan of the 5x8 card 'aid';- in fact, my therapist is the one who started it by writing down important things we did in therapy and giving me the card at the end of the session. Eddie, I think all mental and physical illnesses are intertwined- e.g.- my pdoc says my panic disorder is closely related to epilepsy (along with bipolar). There's a whole lot more then a couple of neurotransmitters wrong here. take care, judy
Posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 8, 2003, at 15:37:48
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by Snoozy on May 7, 2003, at 15:14:54
> Bright sunny days are excruciating to be outside on. It feels like the sun rays are just stabbing through my eyes and my head. My eyes start involuntarily tearing really badly and I want to go live with the mole people.
-------------Ugh. I went to the beach last weekend, and all I could do was hide hy head under a blanket. I need a pair of welding goggles or something.
> Memories of things like high school are weird. I remember things, but it's like I'm remembering something I saw in a movie - it doesn't feel like oh yes, I remember when this happened.
-----------That's what gets me a lot. I don't feel any connection to my past. It seems alien to me that I used to be married, or in school, or live in a different apartment, for that matter. All that makes sense is the present, and it's not always that convincing.
> I always wonder if other people who grew up during the Cold War have had the same feeling I did. I was depressed as all get out, but I always believed I would never live to be 21 because there would be a nuclear war.
--------------I used to have nuclear war dreams constantly as a kid (though this was during the early Reagan Cold War era). Still, The Day After didn't help me sleep at night.
I can understand the conviction that you'll be dead before your problems hit you. I didn't do my taxes for several years when deeply depressed. What were they gonna do... kill me?Thanks for the feedback.
Posted by leeran on May 8, 2003, at 17:43:12
In reply to Re: somatic/neurologic/emotional » leeran, posted by judy1 on May 8, 2003, at 13:13:38
Judy,
I had never used 5 X 8 cards until my son needed them for a science project. I don't know why, but I really love them - kind of weird of me, eh?
I guess a 3 X 5 is too small for writing down too much and a full sized piece of paper is too daunting.
A few weeks ago I used one to write down all the things that would make me "feel better" physically and the others that would make me "feel better" mentally.
It just occurred to me, I can't sell 3 X 5's down the river completely. They have definitely had their place in my life. I'm not as zealous as I used to be about this - but I've used them every day for the last twenty years to keep track of my weight.
I'm glad to hear others (you and your therapist) find 5 X 8's as well (lol, I guess that's why "they" - whoever they are - make them! It just took me a few decades to figure it out).
Lee
Posted by WorryGirl on May 12, 2003, at 9:21:22
In reply to somatic/neurologic/emotional, posted by Eddie Sylvano on May 7, 2003, at 9:48:15
> Long before I ever began to even suspect that I had any type of psychiatric problem, I was plainly aware of physical symptoms. I'd be incredibly tired, shaky, flushed, and had constant stomach pains. This then spread into more "mental" domains, such as dizziness, sensory distortion, derealization, and general foggy-headedness. Only after many fruitless medical tests (for "physical" disorders) did I begin to associate it all with what had by then become a growing sense of apathy and deep sadness, and it was only after SSRI treatment alleviated almost all of my symptoms that I appreciated the connection. Overall, I'd say that the emotional side of my disorder accounted for maybe 10% of my symptomology. Nowadays, it seems to have smoothed out, with a nice 25/75 split between mood and physical/cognitive symptoms. Still, mood is the least of my problems (though as my last post suggests, it's not trivial).
> Most of the issues I see people writing about here are mood related. Does anyone else feel predominantly physical (or sensory) problems? What's your split?It's funny, because even though I know I do have a few physical symptoms (upset stomach, headaches, etc.) I almost always feel emotionally messed up.
My split is probably 90/10 (emotional/physical).
If I were to concentrate more on the physical, the split may be more like 75/25.
This is the end of the thread.
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