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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 5:47:20
Here's some classic Phil I ran across in the archives, this just jumped out and cracked me up.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20020325/msgs/21225.html
Gee, I sure hope Phil comes back. And not just for the laughs.
Here's a really interesting post from Mark H that addresses dealing with conflict on the boards...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020308/msgs/3520.html
I'm still processing my reactions to the the "expats" thread. I realized I'm getting my buttons pushed over the whole issue of the division in the group. The last 2 weekends I was upset by certain posts, and this weekend it happened again. I noticed that all the posts that upset me are related to the division. I don't understand exactly what it means to me or how to deal with it yet.
I wonder if Mark H's idea of only responding when you feel a connection to the poster is the way to go for me. I've resisted jumping into arguments, but with the "expat" thread I was really hurt. I went off and thought about it, I read and re-read, and thought I'll just state my feelings. (I didn't quite manage to do that, I ended up stating what I thought were the feelings of myself and other people.) I ended up getting more hurt by the replies that seemed to invalidate my feelings.
So I thought maybe the group therapy style doesn't work here. In that situation, you pretty much have to talk it out until everyone sees everyone else's point of view, and there's a resolution. That didn't happen today, and I doubt it can happen in this type of format.
Still confused. Just checking in.
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 6:27:50
In reply to Thoughts for the day..., posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 5:47:20
Hmmm. Tabitha.
A lot of interesting points. You'd be amazed how much time I've spent in therapy about this board and what buttons it pushes and why. I'm not sure if that's a good thing because it's bringing hidden issues to light, or if the board is just naturally bad for me.
I have come to find, that for me, in general on the board, if I say nothing at all when I'm hurt it's a bad thing for me, depending on how strong the feelings are. They just get bottled up inside and emerge destructively. So I'm currently trying to express my hurt in "I" statements and then realizing that my words probably won't change a darn thing and removing myself emotionally at the very point I express my feelings so that subsequent posts on the same subject won't distress me. Not sure yet how well my new strategy is going... But I think I would be terribly upset if Dr. Bob didn't allow us to say when we felt hurt. For one thing there is always the possibility that the poster meant something else entirely and just expressed themselves poorly. I know I've done that, and I would want someone to bring up the fact that they felt hurt so that I could clear up the misunderstanding.
I've looked over your posts on that thread and only found one. I certainly didn't see anything wrong with what you posted in that one. You validated the feelings behind the statement that caused you pain while acknowledging that you felt hurt. Just because what happened after that was not what you wished doesn't mean you didn't do your best. Probably in any group of people it would be unreasonable (not wrong just not terribly likely) to expect others to respond in the way you would like.
I've seen how everything on the board has been thrown off by this one contretemps. Well maybe that's not fair. Things seem to heat up while we ignore the pressures building and then boil over all at once. But Judy and Gabbi are taking a break. Phil is blocked. I kind of get the feeling from your post that you feel some diffidence about posting now. I'm feeling a bit hurt and depressed, but am willing to try to soldier on, hoping that things will get back to normal. But it's hard to recapture that light hearted feel right now.
Trouble once said that this board was like a cofee shop, and you could drop in at different tables as you wished. I know I don't remember the context, and I'm sure I'm misrepresenting what she said a bit. (Sorry trouble, hope you understand that my left brained literal mind just doesn't understand things the same way your right brained representational mind does.) But I often wish it could be seen that way. That even if it doesn't feel safe to post everywhere at any given time, that it would feel okay to drop by a few tables and join in the conversations you wish to join.
I dunno. I'm pretty depressed about the whole thing. Sorry for rambling.
A deflated,
Dinah
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 14:46:14
In reply to Re: Thoughts for the day... » .tabi.T.ha., posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 6:27:50
You didn't think I'd leave you all deflated by yourself did you Dinah?
Its awful isn't it. Really awful, if everything we feel or stand for has to be denied or worded as carefully as a resume it becomes meaningless, more trouble than its worth, why not just be at work.
There is no place for depressed people or other marginalized groups to express their feelings.
Especially anger, and hurt. A therpist who I could afford to see twice, told me "you need to get angry, you have a right to show your anger'
Sure, theoretically, but how many of us can afford to show our anger.
Right now I'm staying with my Dad, if I wasn't I would have no place to go. If he is in a bad mood and wants to take it out on me, I have to take it, why? because if I didn't I'd be on the street.
When I stayed with my Mother it was the same thing, except with her it was constant accusations I finally got fed up and "proved" her wrong. She punished me by refusing to pick up my medication, and by 'forgetting' to tell me the disability office called regarding my cheque, and they needed some information before I could receive it. Result, an extra weeks wait for my 300 dollar a month cheque.The government refuses to acknowledge depression as a "disability" or I could almost have enough to live on, I used to be allowed to make 200.00 a month from work and not have it deducted from my cheque. Not anymore. I can't afford to do it without being allowed to keep my money, it costs money to GO to work,.
Who can I get angry at? The person who hands me my cheque I'm required to jump through hoops for? She has to follow the rules and I could never do that, front line workers are always absorbing the frustration and anger that is caused by Government policy. It's not her fault.
Write a letter to the paper? oh that would really help.Then there are the pharmacies who will refuse to advance me 2 tablets of anything if I run out of medication on a weekend. If I call ahead of time they will refuse to call my Dr because they say I should still have some pills left. If I run out on a weekend they say sorry you have to wait until your Doctor is back.
I had one pharmacist actually Lie and Say "your doctor said to never advance you medication" That was pure Bull**** he thought he was calling my bluff "junkie" that I am.
When I told him I knew that was NOT true he backed down. Would it do to get angry at him?
No it would have meant going through excruciating withdrawl. And fter all this I have to deal with people telling me I'm taking the "easy way out"
I should just snap out of the depression.I know my examples are typical of many of us which is why I posted them.
So now, If I have to make sure everything I write is exactly to a certain specification, cannot even mention a particular belief or standard I hold dear I lose what is one of the only parts of ME left.
I can't even be silly which is a release, without an indirect slap that is generally ignored.
I feel completely bound and gagged. And when I feel that way, that unreleased emotion, is when I take it out on myself. Punching bags and yoga don't fulfill every need. I'm at a loss.
A Gloomy Gabby
Posted by SandraDee on August 6, 2002, at 15:05:40
In reply to ...a Deflated Dinah with company (long) not sorry, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 14:46:14
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 15:54:02
In reply to ...a Deflated Dinah with company (long) not sorry, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 14:46:14
I read those tips, and they certainly are good.
And I've occasionally restrained myself from jumping into others battles. Its really difficult though, because I have felt so especially supported here by Dinah, and you Tabitha,dreamer Sandra, Judy, well so many that if I see someone saying anything that indirectly criticizes you by mentioning "lack of caring" I feel an obligation to respond. Even if its not aimed at me.
How can someone put themselves on the line for a person repeatedly, and pretend not to be hurt when they get a smack. And probably wouldn't have gotten the smack if they hadn't put themselves out in the first place. I'm certainly not advocating retribution, or arguing, but why not be allowed to say that was a very hurtful remark?
pardon "that remark made me feel hurt"No one here expects to be rewarded for reaching out, but to have someone say things which can be easily taken as unkind, and then not be able to express your own feelings, is like being punished, and its unrealistic. Yes I've lashed out in anger, but fully expect to 'reap the rewards' its almost an insult if I don't.
In that way I'd be hurt and feel patronized, "well you know Gabbi, she has some problems she can't help it"
I don't think its really possible to say anything without the possibility of someone feeling hurt or put down.
(within limits)I've said I'm a vegetarian, (not here) and had people suddenly assume I think I'm superior, even though I'm the kind of person who would myself eat meat when invited to someone's house, just to be polite, and not say a word.
And stating how one feels is the only way anything could ever be resolved isn't it?Just another questiony rant!
Gabbi-Gabbi
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 16:16:53
In reply to Gloomy Gabbi, you've got TIGGER mail! (nm) » gabbi, posted by SandraDee on August 6, 2002, at 15:05:40
thanks Sandra Dee, I can't get into my e-mail right now, but I'll write back when I do.
Gabbi
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 16:19:00
In reply to Thoughts for the day..., posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 5:47:20
That was so funny, thanks for mentioning it Tabitha! I was thinking of changing my board name to civil. So I could be Civil but that pales in comparison to Phils post.
Gabbi
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 16:21:50
In reply to Re: ...a Deflated Dinah , posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 15:54:02
It's not so bad as all that here Gabbi. :) Dr. Bob does let us say when we're hurt, and I'm sure there are many posters who can tell you that I, for an example, have said many opinionated things here and to date have not gotten a PBC. We just have to follow the board guidelines. I just think we're all a bit disconcerted because the guidelines seemed to change a bit without warning on the Phil block. But Dr. Bob is a good guy overall, and he tries to keep the site running as smoothly as possible.
I can see you're going to have the same problems with this board that I do, and I can only hope you weather them better than I sometimes do. But you know, I have always come back even when I need to leave for a while. And we SPOWs tend to do OK here overall. We just take breaks where necessary.
I'm so glad you're around and I hope you manage to stick it out. I'm just a bit down right now because I'm a little sponge. (All right I'm a great big fat sponge.) I soak up all the feelings on the board and right now everyone seems really down. But I'm feeling a bit better, and I hope everyone else does soon too.
I'm trying to think of something really cheerful to say, but my son's home sick from school, I reconciled my bank and credit cards today, and I have to come up with a way to pay my bills when I hardly worked this month.
Sigh.
OK. Cheerful. I remembered what I did today. That's a step up from the past month and a few days. So I can now keep a thought in my head for more than a minute or two. I wish the thoughts weren't about bills, but still...
And I got some serious work done today too!!!
Hooray for me!
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 16:56:32
In reply to Re: ...a Sweet Gabbi, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 16:21:50
Gabbi, I can tell you feel deflated since you've gone lowercase. :( Great idea about naming yourself Civil, but why not go all out and be Please B. Civil ???
Dinah, I talk about this board in therapy too. Feels nutty, but that's how I am with relationships, any human contact brings up so much stuff for me. My social life is practically nothing but email at this point, and still there's plenty to process. I'm not contemplating leaving, but just trying to figure out how to participate in a way that adds to my life rather than adding more upset. One option is just to keep it light here, and process stuff in therapy. But then I tend to avoid conflict too so maybe that's a cop-out. I think that thread just got to me because in my family, if you said "That hurt my feelings" the response was "you're too sensitive". I eventually gave up on that sort of honesty with my family. I think I'm actually doing well here at assuming the best intentions of people. Many times I've seen something that could possibly be taken as an insult, and been able talk myself out of it. That's actually big progress for me.
Posting here has added a lot, I really do feel less isolated, and I've been surprised how "real" people come to be just through their writing. There are some great folks here that I value knowing. It's nice too to know some crazies, I've missed that since I quit going to my mood disorder support group. Nice to know folks who have gone through that ego-deflating process of accepting that big parts of themselves are chemistry gone bad. I get soooo frustrated with friends who are still trying to think their way out of their depression and don't "believe in" medication.
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 16:56:52
In reply to Re: ...a Sweet Gabbi, posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 16:21:50
Yes you are correct, its not as bad as all that, I'm a sponge too, or actually I've blamed it on a computer virus.
I knew I'd be feeling down these of days, I had it charted on my calendar, its cyclical with me, (its about this time last month I ended up in the hospital)
Still, I end up being reactionary, and an SSPOW
I know the last thing you meant was to chastise me, thats not what I'm saying, Its just that I haf no skeen. And that is why I said I should take a break from posting this week, I should have listened to myself Ha ha ha... I view things it such a skewed way during this time. But its also when I need an outlet the most. ARRghhhhI want patience and I want it now!
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 17:07:32
In reply to Re: ...a Sweet spongy Gabbi, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 16:56:52
> Yes you are correct, its not as bad as all that, I'm a sponge too, or actually I've blamed it on a computer virus.
>
> I knew I'd be feeling down these of days, I had it charted on my calendar, its cyclical with me, (its about this time last month I ended up in the hospital)
> Still, I end up being reactionary, and an SSPOW
> I know the last thing you meant was to chastise me, thats not what I'm saying, Its just that I haf no skeen. And that is why I said I should take a break from posting this week, I should have listened to myself Ha ha ha... I view things it such a skewed way during this time. But its also when I need an outlet the most. ARRghhhh
>
> I want patience and I want it now!Go ahead and use this outlet Gabbi. It certainly isn't the worst one. Vent away. I know I do.
And of course I didn't mean to chastise you. :) For what would I chastise you? For being a sweet sensitive empathetic Gabbi?
Fondly,
Dinah
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 17:10:17
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals, posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 16:56:32
Funny I didn't even notice I'd gone lower case...hmmm the brain. On my Birthday, I went out to get a newspaper, on the side of the news box was an add and the headline said IMAGINE, I thought it said "I am aging" at first glance.
Being brand new to any sort of Board, I'm completely in awe of how people come through too. I used to wonder how anyone could feel less isolated doing this, but I have learned.
And yes crazy people are much better when you're down, much better, such a huge RELIEF... but then there is always that down side. I keep forgetting thats with ANY group, wer'e actually surprisingly sane for ill people.
I put this in another post, but recently I recalled a "work" scandal where a staff meeting had to be called because some of the employees at the group home were upset that a tupperware weiner container had been used by a new employee as a sandwich container for one of our clients lunches.
I got called about it on my day off, it was that much of an issue that had to be dealt with...What else can I say?
Lots of love P.B. Civil
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 17:19:57
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals, posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 17:10:17
But Dr Bob asked that I please Be Civil,
So I would have to become Civil instead of Gabbi
actually Sybil would be better but nobody would have to ask me that.Dr. Bob
I'm not mocking you I'm truly not, my imbecilic humor is a coping mechanism for me, although I'm afraid it might have the reverse effect on others......
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 17:25:27
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals, posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 16:56:32
I could have said most of that myself Tabitha.
Real life socializing has always been hard to the point of painful for me. Most of my friends are from high school (one from grammar school) even though I'm in my 40's now. And I don't have all that much contact with them anyway. A lot have moved away. My best friend (who I did see on a regular basis) died suddenly, oh, three months ago. And the people in chat really came through for me in that difficult time.
At first my therapist really liked the idea of this board, but as he saw the fallout from it over and over, he is now against it, despite the good points. He's coaching me on how to use it in a better way for me, in spite of his reservations. And he does actually want me to stretch myself here and see it as a learning experience. Perhaps your therapist could help you with that too.
And I must say it's been invaluable in bringing up issues that just wouldn't come up in my isolated existence (except for family). I can't say I've always enjoyed it (the issues I mean, not the board), but I suppose it's like cod liver oil. Ugh. Perhaps not the best simile. :)
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 19:27:42
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals » .tabi.T.ha., posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 17:25:27
I'm so sorry about losing your friend. I think I've been around that long, but I don't recall seeing it mentioned. Must be really difficult, I've been fortunate not to lose a close friend yet.
Makes me think though, besides getting support for that, you do seem to have a lot of fun here too. I wonder if you've shared that with your therapist? I know I usually spend most of my sessions talking about my difficulties, so sometimes she misses the good part of stuff since I've not mentioned it. Or maybe I'm just hoping you have some fun here so you'll stick around :) ?
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 19:31:09
In reply to Re: P.S Tabitha I do like the full title , posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 17:19:57
Posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 19:55:35
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals » Dinah, posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 19:27:42
Thanks Tabitha. I'm not sure if I was posting at the time she died or not. With my spacy brain sometimes I forget and it's such a shock when I walk past her desk. Or I picked up the phone the other day to call and ask her a question...
Of course I have tons of fun here. And I do share that with my therapist. I guess the meltdowns are just more memorable to him. Can't imagine why. :) And I do a lot for my therapist. He's almost got me stopped cutting just to please him. But he hasn't been able to break my PB ties, so don't worry. I'll be around far longer than you want me to be. (grin)
(You know, I find the fun to be more supportive than the support, if you understand what I mean.)
Posted by gabbi on August 6, 2002, at 20:03:10
In reply to Oh, I get it now, U want to BE Civil. Very good. (nm) » gabbi, posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 6, 2002, at 19:31:09
Posted by .tabi.T.ha. on August 7, 2002, at 1:47:32
In reply to Re: thanks for the support, gals » .tabi.T.ha., posted by Dinah on August 6, 2002, at 19:55:35
>(You know, I find the fun to be more supportive than the support, if you understand what I mean.)
I do indeed. Me too. Thought that's also been the subject of self-criticism-- you know, along the lines of I should quit joking around so much and be more *supportive*. Sheesh.
Well today was therapy day and she worked her magic as usual. She got me to see how it would be OK even if some people do think my posts are stupid (I realize that was not what was said, but...)
This is the end of the thread.
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