![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 48. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Hi all,
This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
Thanks for listening!
Allison
Posted by Dinah on March 24, 2002, at 10:12:58
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Have you asked your therapist this question specifically? "Do you think it is helpful to my therapy to continue discussing the transference, or do you think that will only make it stronger? How will resolving my relationship issues with you carry over to my real life?"
I imagine the answer is different for different people. Analyzing something to death is one of the many ways I strip an experience of any emotional content and meaning. But other people might find that constant analysis fuels obsessive thoughts.
Have you read "In Session" by Deborah Lott? It is an excellent book about these issues. If I remember correctly it talks about how humans have a tendency to sexualize strong feelings.
When I started having intense fears of abandonment by my therapist, I analyzed the topic to death. I finally pinned it down. I didn't want anything more from my therapist than once or twice a week meetings. I didn't want to be part of his real life or vice versa. I wanted him to be my therapist/mother not my real mother. My transference issues with him were maternal. My feelings toward him are the selfish feelings of a young child for a mother. He is an external source of safety for me, where a sense of safety should be internal. Of course, I worked out most of this on my own. He was willing to talk to me about these things, but certainly didn't seem eager. And I felt better about the whole thing once there was less ambiguity about my feelings.
We discuss my feelings of dependence when they come up. We talk about my basic feelings of insecurity and how they affect my view of him. We discuss the need to develop internal resources. We talk about my inability to see something as safe unless it is permanent. But all of those things are discussed in terms of my real life, with my relationship with him thrown in as an example. When something happens that puts me in terror of abandonment by him, we do discuss that in realistic terms.
So I guess what I'm asking is, can you discuss these things in the context of your real life? Can she point out distortions in your way of relating to her in a way that points out problems in your relationships with others? Can you discuss transferance issues in a way that has a more direct affect on the rest of your life?
Sorry for the rambling. The above is just my own experience and what works for me may not work for you. In fact, I guess it only partially works for me since I'm still frighteningly dependent on him.
Posted by bonnie_ann on March 24, 2002, at 12:01:33
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
My therapist has been a huge help to me.
She gives the encouragement and support that I never got from my parents.
I once had a dream about her and kissing or hugging or something, on occasion I also have sexual dreams about my sister and male superiors. I think it's like what Dinah is saying about having really strong emotions for people and about feeling safe and normal and liked.
Strong sexual feelings are my only experience-(with men). I don't know what parently / friendship love is like.
Bonnie
Posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 19:38:18
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by bonnie_ann on March 24, 2002, at 12:01:33
Thanks for your replies, Dinah and Bonnie. I appreciate all your thoughts…
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like my therapist and I hadn’t really talked about this quite a bit. We have discussed my feelings at length and how they relate to my personal issues & other real life relationships I have had. I have an enormous “need for approval” thing going on and I have always seemed to get involved with these older men mentor types who are somewhat emotionally inaccessible to me (father figures maybe?) (with the exception being my husband who is neither older than me nor emotionally inaccessible—go figure?!). I think that is in part what is going on with my therapist. She is emotionally inaccessible to me in a lot of ways (b/c a good therapist tries to keep his/her “stuff” out of your session, right?) and I am dying for her to think of me as her special, favorite client—better than all the others. I think these feelings are happening now, b/c I have been trusting her more fully and going farther with her than I ever had before.
I do agree that if I can really focus on my real life and the benefits that this experience, once resolved, will have on my future relationships, I will be better for it, but…I think my problem is that knowing this still doesn’t seem to stop the instinctual, rather infantile, regressive feelings that I am having—it’s like I can’t seem to reason my way out of feeling this way. It’s got that obsessive, infatuation quality and part of me doesn’t want it to stop. I think the real difference will be that I am ultimately not getting anything back from her for my efforts and energy (unlike the previous relationships with men) and eventually I will just forget about it. But until then…I have no one to talk to about it/her!! (As you can imagine, this isn’t really my husband’s favorite topic!) Dinah, my therapist and I did specifically discuss whether to keep discussing it…and just last session, she said that she thought it would be better to not discuss for awhile, as it was causing me so much agitation (I was feeling so much shame from feeling this way, it was making therapy difficult), but I think I am like you, Dinah, in that if I don’t completely analyze it then there is no way to move past it. Even with a full analysis I’m not sure…so, given that, do you think I should just be assertive and say that I need to discuss it more?
And as for the sexual feelings, I agree with you both that it is probably an interpretation of the strong emotions I am having. It’s true that the fantasies about her that move me most are not sexual, but more maternal in nature. Dinah, I just ordered that book you recommended “In Session”. I haven’t done a lot of reading on the therapy process or transference, so I am eager to see what the author has to say.
Thanks again for all of your helpful thoughts.
Allison
Posted by Dinah on March 24, 2002, at 20:17:27
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist--thanks, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 19:38:18
Well, if it gives you any comfort, those in-love infatuated feelings never last all that long. In marriage you kind of wish they would, but in therapy I suppose that's a good thing.
You know what I did to clarify my feelings? I imagined things through to their conclusion. I imagined meeting him outside therapy. I imagined being married to him. I imagined being his child. I carried it through all the way with all the pesky practicalities that would be involved in a real life situation. As I did this, it became clear that I didn't want any of those things to happen. I wasn't attracted to him. I didn't hardly know him at all as a person and what I did know didn't mesh with what I wanted out of my life. He's a great therapist, but I imagine he wouldn't be such a great parent, husband, or lover (for me anyway - I don't want to insult the guy). That helped a lot to clarify my thoughts.
And I was lucky in that I never aspired to be his favorite client. I can pick up on other people's feelings well enough to know that hoping he would not dislike me was a stretch. :) I can embarass him now by telling him all the things I picked up on him thinking about me. I was a really obnoxious client there for a while. I still can be.
I hope you enjoy In Session. I did quite a bit. Let me know what you think.
Best wishes,
Dinah
Posted by Dinah on March 24, 2002, at 21:30:23
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist--thanks, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 19:38:18
> But until then…I have no one to talk to about it/her!! (As you can imagine, this isn’t really my husband’s favorite topic!)
By the way, one nice thing about this board is that you can talk about it here with us. I can imagine it's not your husband's favorite topic. :)
I worked a lot of my transference feelings right here on Psycho-Social Babble.
Posted by Penny on March 24, 2002, at 22:55:53
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist--thanks, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 19:38:18
Allison,
First let me apologize for this being so LONG!
>I have an enormous “need for approval” thing going on
ME TOO!
>I think that is in part what is going on with my therapist. She is emotionally inaccessible to me in a lot of ways (b/c a good therapist tries to keep his/her “stuff” out of your session, right?) and ****I am dying for her to think of me as her special, favorite client—better than all the others.****
I wrote a letter to my therapist and told her that very thing. That I want to be her favorite. She said that I needed to realize that just b/c I wasn't her only client didn't mean our relationship wasn't special. And she's VERY good at keeping herself/her personal stuff out of our therapy.
>I think these feelings are happening now, b/c I have been trusting her more fully and going farther with her than I ever had before.
Probably so...
> I do agree that if I can really focus on my real life and the benefits that this experience, once resolved, will have on my future relationships, I will be better for it, but…*****I think my problem is that knowing this still doesn’t seem to stop the instinctual, rather infantile, regressive feelings that I am having—it’s like I can’t seem to reason my way out of feeling this way. It’s got that obsessive, infatuation quality and part of me doesn’t want it to stop.****
Wow...and I've said and written that very same thing too. In my situation, it's gone one step further in that my therapist is currently out ON MATERNITY LEAVE. So, I was dealing with these feelings toward a very 'maternal' therapist, in obvious ways. And the abandonment issue came up again and again.
We talked about the transference at length before she left, culminating in my leaving her a message to call me one day, and when she did, I ended up in a tearful, hysterical state on the phone with her. Because I was totally ashamed of how I felt/feel toward her. Because she's not my mom (though in my case, she's only a couple of years younger than my actual mother, though completely different). That night I came as close to suicide as I've been in a while, b/c I was hurting so much I couldn't hardly stand it. And my rational side understands all of this, why it happens, etc, but, like you said IT DOESN'T HELP to know that.
As far as obsession, one of my friends feels as though I'm totally obsessed with my therapist. And perhaps I am. I went so far as to find out where she lived, and then drove by her house just so I could see it. I didn't really stop, but I just had to see where she lived. And then I confessed to her that I knew where she lived, though I didn't tell her I had driven by. At first she seemed a bit taken aback by my revelation, but in the next session informed me that this wasn't the first time this had happened to her. I kept bringing up that I was afraid I had upset her (this was two sessions b/f her maternity leave), and that she was now angry at me, would never view me in the same way, etc. And, in retrospect, I think much of it had to do with my really trying to push her out of my life. Like I had to do something I knew she wouldn't approve of, to test her. Can I really trust her? Is she finally going to reject me??? And to prove to myself that I'm truly the horrible person I've known I was all along.
Anyway, she reassured me that she wasn't angry with me, tho' she wouldn't have chosen to give me that information. And she wanted me to see a substitute therapist while she was out, but I only saw her twice b/f I decided that wasn't going to work out. She was trying to push me through dealing with this transference thing, but I just couldn't.
My therapist tells me that this is part of the process, that she would be more worried if I didn't feel these feelings, in light of my issues. I guess she's right. And I'm surviving the maternity leave, slowly but surely (four weeks to go!!!!).
I guess the question for me now is, is she going to be able to help me? Can I effectively deal with these transference issues with her, or should I see another therapist about those things? The thought of ending therapy with her makes me nauseated. I can't stand it... What are your thoughts?
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know that you're not alone in this. Keep us posted.
Penny
Posted by trouble on March 25, 2002, at 1:24:58
In reply to I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » allisonf, posted by Penny on March 24, 2002, at 22:55:53
I could convince him that shadowy figures are plotting against me and have been since before the day I was born. These things happen, someone somewhere has got to believe me.
Oliver Stone, how do you manage to make them listen?
trouble
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 8:34:54
In reply to I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » allisonf, posted by Penny on March 24, 2002, at 22:55:53
Hi Penny,
Given the strength of your own concerns about your transference and the fact that you are wondering if your therapist can help you because of it, just perhaps you might think of utilizing the services of the substitute therapist to talk about it?
Or if you think this therapist is too aggressive about it, perhaps you could get a consultation elsewhere while your therapist is on maternity leave.
Just a thought, since it seems to be causing you so much pain.
At one point I sought a consultation with another therapist, for a different reason. Of course, he was completely useless since he didn't want to get in the way of my relationship with my therapist, but since your substitute therapist seems willing to do so, perhaps it might be useful.
Again, just a thought.
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 11:23:26
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 8:34:54
Thank you, Dinah, for your thoughts. (And, FYI, I'm very glad you are back on the board. I love reading your posts, as you are a wonderful voice of reason!)
I liked the substitute therapist okay, but she was a bit too honest with me, I think. She certainly told me what she thought, etc., and she didn't sugar coat it at all. And I suppose that's a good thing, but there are times I can deal with those things and times that they send me spiraling downward. My 'real' therapist has a way of making the same point without making me feel bad in the process. She sort of leads me on a path of self-discovery instead of just saying whatever. And I guess that the limited time I would have with the substitute would make a difference, but...
Right now I'm still not stabilized on meds and I'm focusing more on that and on getting somewhat better (my moods are fluctuating rapidly). And I'd really rather just have support right now from someone than someone in my face telling me "You don't want to be in therapy forever, do you?"
Admittedly, I will have to deal with this at some point. But I really don't know if I can right now. If I even start thinking about it, I get in a bad place. The suicidal thoughts increase, I get all out of sorts. I'm taking things hour by hour most of the time lately.
I've been seeing my pdoc weekly since before my therapist went on maternity leave, and I told the substitute that (I really like my current pdoc), and she said "But how long does he really spend with you?" And I told her that I spend about 30 minutes with him and I have his pager number and he encourages me to page him "anytime" and she responded with "Oh, that's very unusual." I said, "Yeah, I know...I've been through this before." But he told me when I saw him on Friday that she had called him to check on me (it's been about 2 weeks since I saw her, and I told her I'd call if I needed her).
I don't know. I feel very confused, but not very cooperative with the substitute. I told my pdoc that I was not seeing her and why, and he said he understood, that it was hard with a substitute.
To be honest, the thought of going back to the substitute, with her strong personality, makes me nauseated. I'm very ready for my therapist to return, but I know I've still got four weeks. I just don't know how much I can really deal with this transference right now...
Thanks, Dinah!
Penny
Posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 12:37:08
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Dinah, posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 11:23:26
Sorry, Penny. I didn't realize that your substitute therapist was grossly lacking in technique and tact. What on earth made your regular therapist entrust her patients to a therapist like this? I propose a ruling that no therapist can refer a regular patient to a substitute without undergoing five trial sessions with the substitute themselves.
Thanks for the kind words. At the moment I don't quite feel like the voice of reason. I feel like the voice of distorted thoughts and irrationality, tearfulness and unbidden anger. I still haven't gotten back to "normal", not even to "normal for me".
Dinah
Posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 12:46:29
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist--thanks » allisonf, posted by Dinah on March 24, 2002, at 20:17:27
Hi Dinah,
Thanks for your messages. I think that is a great idea about imagining the situation that I think I want with my therapist out to conclusion. I'm going to try it today. Years ago when I first went to see my therapist about changing my career path, she had told me do visualizations like that about different jobs and then write about what I envisioned afterwards. It really helped. I'm not sure how it'll go re: my feelings for her, but it's worth a try--I'll let you know what happens. Maybe that combined with seeing her tomorrow will change things.
Also, I'll let you know about "In Session"--Amazon just shipped it out today. Thanks for listening and saying that about the bd being a place to "talk out" these feelings. It has already helped so far. I thought I was going crazy with this early yesterday, esp. with my therapist not really wanting me to discuss it with her anymore, and with my husband and friends not totally understanding I don't think.
I'll keep you posted. Thanks again for your advice!
A
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 13:06:13
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by Dinah on March 25, 2002, at 12:37:08
I think my therapist knows her from a professional organization, but I don't think she realizes how she is in session. I mean, she comes across as being nice, but there's something about her that rubs me the wrong way.
Oh...also wanted to say 'ditto' to what Allison said regarding the imagining how things would be were my fantasies about my therapist to come true, and about the book "In Session." I've looked for a book like that for a long time.
Thanks again...
Best to you, Dinah.
Penny
Posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 13:21:02
In reply to I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » allisonf, posted by Penny on March 24, 2002, at 22:55:53
Hi Penny,
Wow, we couldn't be in a more similar mindset at this point!! Except that my therapist isn't on maternity leave, and I feel for you--that must be awful having these unresolved feelings for her & having to wait to see her another 4 weeks! (tho I gotta wonder if seeing my therapist only exacerbates the issue?! Not that I can stop seeing her, but...) And esp. with these issues with your substitute therapist--she sounds like she needs some empathic training! I can't believe she would push you to deal with the transference issue when you're not ready. I agree with Dinah--it's too bad that you didn't get to try her out before your therapist went on leave. Well, hang in there, only one month to go...
About what you wrote, can I just tell you that I did the ***very same thing*** secretly finding my therapist's address and driving by her house just 2 weeks ago! And I had the **very same reaction** as you, feeling ashamed and needing to confess on the phone that very night. In fact, the minute I turned onto her street I started shaking and I couldn't stop until I told her. I'm not sure what she thought--she seemed a little angry, but she never told me really. It was like she was trying *so* hard to keep her feelings in ck. The next day, I was a complete mess, shame, suicidal thoughts just like you were saying, and she was *so incredibly* supportive and there for me unconditionally, that I was able to stabilize somewhat. It is interesting what you say about unconsciously trying to "test" your therapist in this way--I think looking back I might have been doing that too.
Also, that's a cool idea about writing your therapist a letter about these things--wanting to be the favorite client, etc. I have read about people writing to their therapist, but never have. I think it might be a good idea for me since she has told me that she wants us to hold off on talking about the transference for awhile as she thinks it feeds my feelings. But maybe writing to her about it would be a way of getting it out, but not centering all of therapy around it. Hmmm...
I am trying to take comfort in the fact that as you said, this is part of the therapy process, and it probably means that therapy is really working at some level. Once it is possible to get past the infatuation stage (and as Dinah said, this is likely to happen quickly as in other relationships?! I hope...), I do think it will change the way I feel about these issues that I have--approval, abandonment--the same ones you mentioned.
Also, I have the same qs as you re:would another therapist be better for handling this issue or can I work thru it by continuing to see her?! But my instinct is to say that if it makes you feel sick to think of being without her, then I would stay and try to work things thru with her when she gets back. Esp if you have tried that sub therapist and it didn't seem to work out.
Best of luck with this and keep me posted! Thanks for your message, as I said to Dinah, it helps to have people who will listen and can understand.
And I apologize for writing a book here! I'll try to tone down my future messages!
Take care--
Allison
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 14:00:15
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 13:21:02
Allison,
So good to hear from you.
Yeah, I did the writing to my therapist thing at her recommendation. And I read the letter to her in therapy. It was soooo hard to do. I tried two weeks in a row and just couldn't make myself. Then, finally, on week three, I was able to get through it. Of course, that was without looking at her the entire time I was reading it! It was 11 pages long...and I poured out my heart. Afterwards, she said it was very affectionate.
Also, about your therapist being upset with you regarding driving by your house. I thought the same thing. When I told her, I could feel a shift in the tension in the room. And when I talked to her that night on the phone (apologizing over and over), she seemed more detached. And that really hurt. But when I saw her the next week, I reiterated how sorry I was and how afraid I was that I had messed up 'our relationship' and how she views me, and she was much warmer and told me that it wasn't the first time someone had found out where she lived, and that it would have freaked her out a little if she didn't know me so well, but I've been seeing her for two years, so she was okay with my knowing. Just wouldn't have voluntarily given me that information. And that made me feel better, b/c she seemed like she had gotten past it.
The other thing that helped was the last session we had b/f she went on maternity leave, and I was all upset and she said she would miss me and miss working with me but that she wouldn't be gone too long and that I could call and leave her messages letting her know how I was doing, etc. And she gave me a hug before I left. I've only hugged her twice in two years...and I think that's really the only time we've ever touched at all. But that felt good. I felt better after the session.
Being away from her and not thinking as much about my feelings for her has helped me in the day-to-day stuff somewhat. It's made it a bit easier to deal with the meds & depression and whatnot. But I don't think it would be good for me to go on like this for long. I think I will definitely need to deal with these issues at some point, either with her or with someone else who understands.
But it really helps knowing that I'm not the only one...this board has been a wonderful thing.
If you'd like, you can email me personally at penny1076@yahoo.com. If you're uncomfortable with that, we'll keep in touch via the board.
Keep me posted with you too.
Penny
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 14:01:00
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!!, posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 14:00:15
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:41:35
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
>Hi, Allison. I read some of the postings between you and Dinah. Her advice seems really good.
Couple of other thoughts: 1)Although I could be wrong, I think the psychoanalysts felt that a good therapeutic relationship enevitably leads to transference. If so, you're finally getting there, after ten years or so! SOOO--transference isn't a bad thing, handled right--which is your therapist's job!
I like the thing that Dinah did to work through hers--imagining the relationship all the way to its logical--or illogical conclusion--I think there's a name for this technique that goes way back, too. It may also be a form of cognitive therapy, which brings me to my suggestion: When these thoughts, ruminations BOTHER you, use the technique of Thought Stopping, another cognitive therapy tenet. No emotion can occur without a thought first occurring. You can stop the thoughts and thereby stop the emotion. You tell yourself "STOP" and, perhaps, name the thought "stop thinking of so and so in this way or "stop thinking of so and so PERIOD". Do it as many times as you need to eliminate the pesky, obcessive thoughts UNTIL you are READY to deal with them, either completely, or on that specific day.
Again, just a couple of other ways to look at this normal occurrance, especially if it gets in the way with your everyday life.
Cheers,
Jannbeau
Hi all,
> This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
> Thanks for listening!
> Allison
Posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:51:54
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Dinah, posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 13:06:13
> Oh! No transference! Although, obviously, I don't know your two therapists and I can't say that your substitute doc is or isn't a good therapist, have you thought that, perhaps, she "rubs you the wrong way" simply because she isn't your regular therapist?
Just another thought. Not meant to "tell" you how you feel or why.Cheers,
Jannbeau (home-nym)Jannbeau
I think my therapist knows her from a professional organization, but I don't think she realizes how she is in session. I mean, she comes across as being nice, but there's something about her that rubs me the wrong way.
>
> Oh...also wanted to say 'ditto' to what Allison said regarding the imagining how things would be were my fantasies about my therapist to come true, and about the book "In Session." I've looked for a book like that for a long time.
>
> Thanks again...
> Best to you, Dinah.
> Penny
Posted by Penny on March 25, 2002, at 22:57:19
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!!, posted by JANNBEAU (homenym) on March 25, 2002, at 20:51:54
Perhaps. But I really think we just didn't click. It took me a while to develop transference feelings for my regular therapist, but I liked her before then. Just got a "I know and you can't change my mind about it and you HAVE to work through this now" attitude from the new one.
Have thought about calling another therapist my therapist is in practice with (the sub isn't in practice with my therapist). My therapist gave me the second therapist's name as a contact if the situation with the arranged sub didn't work out.
I suppose I am probably too sensitive about things, and that is especially true when I'm going through these mood swings. But I tried to convey that, and she didn't back off. So I did.
Penny
> > Oh! No transference! Although, obviously, I don't know your two therapists and I can't say that your substitute doc is or isn't a good therapist, have you thought that, perhaps, she "rubs you the wrong way" simply because she isn't your regular therapist?
>
>
> Just another thought. Not meant to "tell" you how you feel or why.
>
> Cheers,
> Jannbeau (home-nym)
>
Posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Posted by wendy b. on March 26, 2002, at 23:34:18
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
I've been following this thread with interest, and I think you should apologize to Allison. What a hurtful thing to say to someone who is struggling, quite valiantly, in my opinion, with a very difficult and painful issue...
Wendy
Posted by kiddo on March 27, 2002, at 0:06:18
In reply to Maybe you should just fuck her. (nm) » allisonf, posted by hrtlm on March 26, 2002, at 22:48:49
http://dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Sorry, I know this isn't my place, but that was uncivil and really offended/bothered me.
Kiddo
Posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
In reply to In love with my therapist, posted by allisonf on March 24, 2002, at 6:45:40
Hi Allison, Dinah, Penny, others,
Somehow, I am attracted to this conversation, sorry for interrupting. Penny and Dinah and I have had conversations on the board in the past about this same issue. It keeps cropping up, and probably a good thing, too...
Sexual attraction to your female therapist, wow! That surely must be difficult to deal with, and I know how weird it is to all of a sudden love another woman, when you're not (you didn't think!) gay. But aren't women are so easy to love! I drove past the house of my former therapist several times... I didn't feel ashamed, please don't be so hard on yourselves. For me, it was sort of more like: ok, this is where the almighty Therapist lives, and it's a pretty normal house, larger than mine, yes, but the act of driving by brought it down to a level of reality for me. Like realizing your first grade teacher shits, or your parents have sex... You know...
In the transference, we're working on the elemental, primal relationships with our parents, and acting them out with the therapist. Even, as in my case, parents who weren't around, like my biological father. As someone (Allison I think) mentioned, it's like some of our old realtionships with lovers or spouses... we're just "trying to get it right," somehow, through these surrogate parental figures. Who more than the therapist, the one with the magic key to unlock our minds, would be better for us to work out these things with? Ideally, the therapist is trained to know how to handle the issues, and some even say that the transference is the very heart of the therapeutic relationship.
My therapist for 7 years was the empathetic mother I never experienced. Oh, yes, I had a mother, one who professed her love to her children on a daily basis... But when I was asked by my current therp., if I remembered any special moments where I thought I had been mothered well, some close connection like sitting in my mother's lap or being read to, I couldn't conjure one up. That was revealing... As I grew up and went to college, I became involved with several older men (my mother's age), and tried to get from them what I hadn't gotten from my mother, and from the father I never knew. Of course, it didn't work.
Others have had much more traumatic relationships with their parents than I ever had - being beaten, hurt, ignored, etc. You have probably already done this, but you might ask yourself what it is that needs to be done over, what or who the therapist stands for in your case... Write it down, share it here, if you can. Especially for Penny - you can talk here for the next four weeks. I don't think the substitute therapist is doing any good, and it's too painful to share intimacies with someone you don't trust. I do think working on the transference with the one you love is going to give you the most direct avenue to resolving your feelings of abandonment and loss and hurt. Do it with the actual person who is bringing up those feelings - don't bail out now. So you want to feel special in her eyes... that's ok, that's fine. Didn't you want to be that to your mommy and daddy? Isn't that ok, what we all wanted and should have had, but probably didn't? There is no shame in that, please don't feel ashamed. The little girl inside you needs to come out and ask for and receive what she never got, approval and unconditional love. You are working so very hard at healing those old wounds, and it takes a lot of courage and strength to do it. It's painful, it brings up so many bad feelings, but you've got to do it, and you know it, that's why you're wrestling with this now. Wounds can heal - that is one of the wonderful things about being human...
Sorry to interject at this late point in the conversation - I think you and Penny are doing amazing work, and I know Dinah has struggled with this too. Just hold on, write more here if you can, or use a journal. Dance, sing, invite the beast into your living room...
Wendy
> Hi all,
> This issue has really been troubling me lately, and I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced transference like this. My issue: I have been going to the same therapist on and off for 10 yrs and was just recently diagnosed cyclothymic. All the other times I have gone to her (for anxiety), it has never gotten this intense (I think I was holding back a lot and am now getting down to another level). I have always had a high regard for her, but lately I can't stop thinking about her. And what makes it weirder to me is that we are both female and I've never really been attracted to women before (i'm married), but suddenly I am thinking of her romantically, maternally, sexually, etc. I am constantly rehearsing in my head what I will say to her next and therapy is becoming the focal point of my week. I can't help but think this is unhealthy. Yes, I have told her about this, we spent awhile talking about it, but she says it will resolve itself eventually, be patient, etc. Should we keep talking about it (and take time away from other issues) or will talking about it continue to fuel the fire? And yes, it is truly transference in that this thing with her mimics previous dysfunctional relationships I have had with men, all of which ended badly. I guess the idea is that if this is resolved positively, then it will *change my life*, right?! But how to "resolve" it??? Any ideas?
> Thanks for listening!
> Allison
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2002, at 0:27:15
In reply to Re: In love with my therapist, posted by wendy b. on March 27, 2002, at 0:21:41
Posted by Dinah on March 27, 2002, at 8:14:23
In reply to Re: I am SOOOO right where you are!!! » Penny, posted by allisonf on March 25, 2002, at 13:21:02
I can only imagine how hrtlm's statement would have made me feel under the circumstances.
Please understand the support that the vast majority of us have for you in this matter.
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