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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:09:07
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave » Twinleaf, posted by Phillipa on March 8, 2014, at 8:43:16
I think I'm worse today. I'm just sitting and staring and trying not to cry. My therapist-mother is sick or hurt, might be dying. The risperdall helps, but not enough.
He may not be conscious or able to communicate. Or maybe he's in jail, or maybe he consciously sent me that cruel note.
I'm trying to believe he's in jail. Anything else is too hard to think of.
He works alone. I don't know any way to get info except the counselor he directed me to, and he probably won't say anything. I'll probably never know.
I feel like I did when Daddy died. As if I'm breathing out pain.
Even tho I felt like I was ready to quit.
Oh how I wish I'd quit sometime in the last few months. Then I could be oblivious.
I suppose I just need to grieve this loss as if a family member had died. Grief is natural.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:28:14
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:09:07
Well, his phone message is updated to say the same thing. It's his voice and he sounds coherent and strong enough. So he could have sent a less generic message.
It was his choice.
I'm done. I'm not even going to try to find out what's wrong.
The simple truth is that I mean no more to him than client #2182. He may have said he loves me like a therapy daughter but he was just protecting his income stream. I am destined to care more than I am cared for.
I hope he recovers well, but I'm done.
20 years, 2000 meetings, $200,000 and all I rate is a form letter.
What more is there to know.
Posted by Twinleaf on March 8, 2014, at 10:00:06
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:28:14
Oh Dinah.No matter what happened to him, you have every right to be very angry. Do be sure you express it, as you have every right to, and so that you don't turn any anger against yourself.
Because I am presently going through the same thing, I know how important it is to say goodbye, and to express the rage you feel. It's the very best way to ensure a healthy outcome for you.
I do think one part of your thinking/feeling is distorted: you had a real relationship with him, in which there were real feelings for you on his part. You were much more than a source of income; you were someone he cared about and working with you gave his life and work meaning.
If he returns to practice in a few months, consider going back, expressing the anger you feel fully and then say goodbye on terms that are right for you. That is an essential part of good therapy, and, speaking from personal experience, the hardest and most painful.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 8, 2014, at 14:57:43
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:28:14
> Well, his phone message is updated to say the same thing. It's his voice and he sounds coherent and strong enough. So he could have sent a less generic message.
that doesn't follow at all.
i'd say the truth is that he needs to be focused on what is good for him right now. he isn't in the position to be focused on what is in the best interests of other people.
my actual 'worst case scenario' was something like... cancer. something like that. where he needs to muster all the strength and support he can... perhaps deal with all kinds of family crap that comes from people coming and wanting to spend time with and fussing... to do some treatment that will leave him exhausted and physically (and most definitely) emotionally exhausted... to take time to recover from that...
that was more what i was thinking.
which just means... he isn't in the position to be processing things with you right now. about what it means to you that he isn't there. about how angry and sad etc etc you feel... but of course it is entirely understandable that you feel all these feelings... and so he gave you a referral of someone who he believe would be good for you.
did you think that maybe this person he has referred you to... just maybe... he has a collegial relationship with your therapist (or something like that) and that he actually knows what is up with your therapist and that your therapist referred you to this person precisely because this person would be helpful to you right now?
?
perhaps.you won't know if you don't try and get in to see them...
i know this is hard... but think about the alternatives:
- he could have kept seeing you (his voice sounded strong enough) but he wouldn't be strong enough to keep focused on what is good for you appropriately. in other words: he would have ended up hurting you more.
- he could have not given you a referral. which would have left you abandoned, rather.i'm not trying to undemine how hard this must be for you...
i suppose it is possible he left the message from a jail cell lol. itd would probably be real awkward trying to conduct therapy from there...
hang in there.
Posted by Willful on March 8, 2014, at 17:11:17
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 8, 2014, at 9:28:14
Hi Dinah,
One thing I want to say is that if possible, you need to try to remember that often there are explanations and circumstances that make seemingly uncaring actions understandable and even inevitable, .
It often seems as if the thoughts we have are the only possible explanation or meaning of an event or decision -- and yet, finally, it is revealed that we were completely mistaken and all the bad feelings and self-torture were unfounded.
The one thing you need to rely on is the feeling you had when you were with him-- if you felt that there was a real and important relationship-- there was.
The idea that he deceived you is just so mistaken, Im sure. It's what you fear-- but it's not what is.
Whatever is going on-- and I hope it is not some serious illness on his part-- I'm sure it's very disruptive of his life-- perhaps someone in his immediate family is sick-- or some such thing-- I hate to speculate becayse there are always reasons that none of us will hit on. Whatever caused him to send out this impersonal note, it was a terribly insensitive in its effect-- and you have every right to feel angry and abandoned-- no matter what explanation there is.
But hold off on the believe that this has all be meaningless and fruitless-- because whatever else it has been, it has been far from that.
Posted by Poet on March 8, 2014, at 17:28:29
In reply to My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 7, 2014, at 20:23:20
Hi Dinah,
I'm so sorry that your therapist chose this cruel way to tell you that he is terminating you. After 20 years, crisis or not, you deserve something more personal than an email that he probably just cut and pasted to everyone he sees.
I would have a terrible time starting over with a new therapist. Especially one you know nothing about, again if he sent a personal email he might have said why this new person might be a good fit. Therapists are not one type fits all and he should know that, but I'll cut him a small bit of slack if he is in such a crisis state that he was forced to abandon his professionalism.
Perhaps that you have been late and cancelling appointments will help you get through this as it shows that you have the strength to attempt to go it alone.
I'm here to lend at least a sympathetic ear/eye and here is a lightning bolt cyber slap to your T's head.
(((((Dinah)))))
Poet
Posted by 10derheart on March 8, 2014, at 19:49:23
In reply to My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 7, 2014, at 20:23:20
As you would say (and have said) to me....when this insanity happens with a T.....
oh good grief
and for heaven's sake.This truly sucks and I can't even find words. I thought my convoluted, unprofessional, screwed up and unnecessary situation three years ago took the cake, but now I don't know...
(((Dinah)))
Don't take this wrong, and I mean only figuratively of course and wish him well....but I'd love to kill him for you right now since he's made moves that serve to "kill" you, emotionally anyway.
When will they ever realize....?
This is why we used to discuss here how Ts with long-term clients who have developed deep attachment and closeness over years MUST have a plan in place beforehand, involving another T. - not just any adequate one - but one whom they utterly trust to grasp our side of one of these crises - to assist with the right level and tone of intervention if the affected T. is physically or emotionally unable to notify these clients personally.
I'm praying that's who this referral person is...and maybe so, which would at least be something. If not and he didn't plan ahead, even if it only applied to you, then, well.....
<<<<<<<<sigh>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Damn the whole situation. I haven't got the right words, I know. You must be freaking our inside. I remember how wrecked I was after reading something that began, "I think I am too connected to your life..." and that was only after 4.5 years, not 20, and me moving 2000 miles away with phone therapy (changes things).
I'm here. I have to think more about this.
Posted by baseball55 on March 8, 2014, at 21:09:10
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by 10derheart on March 8, 2014, at 19:49:23
Wow Dinah. I'm so sorry about this.
Worse, it frightens me. What if my own T got sick? I know he cares about me, but, if he were very ill, I imagine I would get some kind of form letter or phone call from a colleague and that would be it.
The hardest part of therapy is that the relationship means a lot more to us than it does to them. And we are not part of their non-professional life. At all.
God, this is so upsetting. I'm so sorry for you.
Posted by Partlycloudy on March 8, 2014, at 21:17:19
In reply to My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 7, 2014, at 20:23:20
Oh my gosh. I wrote an extended, heartfelt response to this, and is in lalaland.
I hope you consider interviewing the alternate therapist suggested. My husband's T sent out a similarly blasé message when she developed Stage 4 cancer. (I knew more about her condition than he, through my therapist.)
It is hard to know, and harder to know how to handle.We all missed you, Dinah.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 10:04:19
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by alexandra_k on March 7, 2014, at 22:48:49
I've been sleeping since yesterday afternoon. My Petunia is the only reason I'm not asleep. She's refusing to leave me , growls at my husband when he tries to feed her, and won't be lured away with treats. She knows something is wrong. I had to get up to feed her.
It's easier to be angry with him than to think he's dying.
I looked up the replacement, and when I saw that his specialty was the same as my therapist developed, sex addiction,I remember he mentioned him. Not in any terms that would make me think he'd suggest him for me. More in terms of envy that this guy had grown a large practice and hired therapists to work under him. Someone, I assume with the resources to add my therapists clients.
He gave me a couple of other names years ago, as people he thought might understand me, but I'm not planning to even see if they are still in business. I refuse to go to therapy to try to undo the damage therapy caused. Grief doesn't last forever. Bitterness and distrust might.
I've known for years that my therapist is not strong in crisis. I handled Katrina better than he did. He panicked, and took a job in Europe, leaving his wife to deal.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 10:11:14
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 10:04:19
Thank you, everyone. I knew you would understand.
I remember a few years ago when my therapist's therapist committed suicide and he turned to me because he knew I'd understand. I offered babble to him because this *is* someplace where people understand. Tho I was relieved when he didn't.
Posted by Willful on March 9, 2014, at 10:41:19
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 10:11:14
Dinah, I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive him a little after time.
When a therapists get sick, most of them probably react like frightened people rather than therapists. And with that come all the limitations and failings that they try to shield us from in the therapy room-- so try to forgive him as a human being, if you can't as a therapist.
It will be better for your heart if you do-- bitterness is something I've experienced and it takes a lot of work to undo it once you've fallen into it-- I'm working on it myself and it does have a strong hold-- so try not to let it take over-- You're a fighter and you can be strong and loving enough to see through the incredibly disappointing and failed therapist to the person beneath-- We don;t know about his life, his childhood, the failings of maturation or growth that have left him so vulnerable to fear-- and so prone to running away-- leaving others to cope alone.
But whatever it is, he's human, all too human-- and deserves compassion most when he's done so wrongly-- I'm sure in his heart he knows-- that you deserved better.
That's an incredible test of resolve-- and I don't suggest it lightly because I, like everyone else, am wondering how I would fare in your shoes- because we all know we likely will be. We know where you're going through-- and I hope for myself that I can live up to being loving even if (when) my therapist abandons me to live without him.
It may seem like the end of the world-- which in a way it is-- because his protective wing may not be there, but you will survive-- don't do to yourself what seems like punishing him--
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 11:31:40
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Willful on March 9, 2014, at 10:41:19
Actually, it does kind of help to remember that this is a pattern. He can be weak in crisis. If he deserted his wife, deserting me seems less personal.
In time I'll try to feel compassion. But for now, it hurts less to feel angry than to worry.
I'm not so strong myself.
I do remember the god stuff. I remember once he put on his minister hat and listened to my confession, and gave me formal absolution. It was one of the most powerful experiences of my life. Had I quit when I knew who he was, I'd have never experienced that.
But I'm not sure I want to think of those things right now.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 11:33:22
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 11:31:40
Good stuff, not god stuff. Spellcheck made an unintentional Freudian slip.
Posted by Poet on March 9, 2014, at 12:16:14
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 11:33:22
Hi Dinah,
I remember your therapist running away during Katrina. I didn't know that you more or less was his therapist when his therapist died. Pardon the pun, but that's just plain crazy.
Poet
Posted by Willful on March 9, 2014, at 12:18:38
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 11:33:22
Freudian slips are forgiven!
I don't know if this is an off-the-wall idea, but sometimes when I'm really in pain, I try to find at a comedy whow or a favorite funny movie, which lightens my mood. And this helps. I like Monty Python-- The anger clinic always makes me smile-- and the Daily Show-- but whoever is your favorite---
It is awfully early to get over the anger and disappointment.
I was reading an article yesterday that talked about grieving. It said that the Kuhbler-Ross stages were probably not correct and that studies showed that people grieved more in periods of pain and reawakened vitality that cycled again and again. It said the cycles kept on until the good part of the cycle was longer and the pain cycle was shorter and less intense-- and that it could take a lot of time, or for some lucky few not so much time--but that eventually, the pain was relieved-- and the sense of going on became stronger and stronger.
Its hard, extremely hard, to get through this part-- but you're wise to see this as a death- the loss of a relationship-- and to grieve it as you would any lost deep relationship. Lost relationships are one of the worst, most potentially damaging parts of life-- and there's nothing you can do, but make it through.
I too was wondering-- if he abandons his wife-- who else will he not abandon? So this is who he is-- for better and, in this case, for worse--
but it is what is is-- a very tough and painful road. You'll come out of it stronger I hope-- but it will take time
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:01:21
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Poet on March 9, 2014, at 12:16:14
Well, I wouldn't say that. It's more like he was a fellow babbler for a couple of sessions. Someone who understood that among other sad things, it was also a horrible horrible thing for a therapist to do to his clients. He said it really helped him understand the responsibility a therapist had to his clients.
Because you know, most people don't understand. They feel sorry for the therapist and think the client is being self centered. For at least a couple of weeks he understood the other side.
Then he went to a meeting for the guy's clients and found out a bit of what was so bewildering to him. That made him feel better.
Ironic, really.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:07:11
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Willful on March 9, 2014, at 12:18:38
You are right. He is what he is. I even knew it.
I remember feeling horribly guilty for laughing at Fawlty Towers when a dear dog had died. I still can't watch it without remembering.
I never did agree with the stages of grief. The conceptualization you describe more closely matches my own experience. Waves still hit from long ago losses. But they subside.
Thanks, Willful.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:57:30
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:07:11
"Dinah,
I'm so very sorry I have not been able to contact you until now. Unfortunately, I am out on an emergency medical leave for an undetermined duration while I (undergo chemotherapy) (learn to walk again) (take care of my family member) (am in jail/rehab/unable to make or receive calls or emails). I will contact you when I am able to schedule appointments, but it will be a minimum of four months - probably more.
I know that therapists aren't washing machines, and I won't belittle twenty years of building a therapeutic relationship by advising you to carry on your treatment with a new therapist. But if you need support or assistance, or if you need to process my leaving, I hope that you will contact one of the therapists whose names I gave you. I really think they will be a good fit for you. If they aren't available, xxxx of xxx at (xxx)xxx-xxxx is available for my clients.
This is absolutely not a rejection of you or of our years together. I don't know when I might be able to come back, but I very much regret having to do this and I don't do it lightly."
If he said that, leaving out the "continue your treatment" and "new and current clients", and adding a bit more personalization without adding significantly more words I'd have probably been very upset but waited for his return and prayed for his recovery with no anger, bitterness, or feelings of stupidity for the vast waste of time and money.
Posted by alexandra_k on March 9, 2014, at 15:18:46
In reply to What he could have said, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:57:30
oh. it is you. i didn't think that it was.
:-o
well, yes. i think he does owe you more than that. given what you both have been through over the years. hurricane katrina and the like.
Posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2014, at 20:02:18
In reply to What he could have said, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:57:30
One of the reasons never really wanted to get involved with therapy all things eventually do come to an end. Maybe he thought this was good time to terminate and took the cowardly way out and did it via email? Phillipa
Posted by baseball55 on March 9, 2014, at 20:04:12
In reply to What he could have said, posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 13:57:30
I understand your wanting that. I would want it too. But maybe he is too ill/distracted to write personalized notes.
The sad truth is that we are not part of their personal lives and, when personal problems force them to abandon their professional lives, they abandon us. That's the reality. We do matter to them in their professional lives. They are gratified by their work. They like, care about, even love us as patients/clients. They really do. But once the professional relationship is over/on-hold, that's it.
I know my p-doc, if he had a stroke, cancer or something, would probably just arrange to have a colleague call his existing patients to let them know he was out of commission or closing his practice. He wouldn't email, thankfully, since we don't do email and he doesn't have my address.
And that would be that. I doubt I would even be informed if he died, except weeks after the fact. It's so sad and hard and unfair and it pains me to think about. But it's the reality of the relationship.
> "Dinah,
>
> I'm so very sorry I have not been able to contact you until now. Unfortunately, I am out on an emergency medical leave for an undetermined duration while I (undergo chemotherapy) (learn to walk again) (take care of my family member) (am in jail/rehab/unable to make or receive calls or emails). I will contact you when I am able to schedule appointments, but it will be a minimum of four months - probably more.
>
> I know that therapists aren't washing machines, and I won't belittle twenty years of building a therapeutic relationship by advising you to carry on your treatment with a new therapist. But if you need support or assistance, or if you need to process my leaving, I hope that you will contact one of the therapists whose names I gave you. I really think they will be a good fit for you. If they aren't available, xxxx of xxx at (xxx)xxx-xxxx is available for my clients.
>
> This is absolutely not a rejection of you or of our years together. I don't know when I might be able to come back, but I very much regret having to do this and I don't do it lightly."
>
> If he said that, leaving out the "continue your treatment" and "new and current clients", and adding a bit more personalization without adding significantly more words I'd have probably been very upset but waited for his return and prayed for his recovery with no anger, bitterness, or feelings of stupidity for the vast waste of time and money.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 23:22:04
In reply to Re: What he could have said » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by baseball55 on March 9, 2014, at 20:04:12
I'd do better than that myself, with people I work with. So would my husband, he says.
Just because someone isn't part of your personal life doesn't mean you should treat them as negligible.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 23:23:50
In reply to Re: What he could have said » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by Phillipa on March 9, 2014, at 20:02:18
It would be going rather far to change his answering machine message to get rid of just me. I seriously doubt he did that. And no matter how hurt I feel, I must confess that he never would do anything *that* professionally dishonorable.
Posted by Dinah Seeks Support on March 9, 2014, at 23:28:27
In reply to Re: My therapist on extended leave » Dinah Seeks Support, posted by Twinleaf on March 8, 2014, at 10:00:06
I think I might. If only to make sure he's ok. Or maybe not. If he contacts me at all, I'll assume he's ok.
I'm not primarily feeling angry at the moment. Just sad for him and regretful that I hadn't already quit.
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