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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
My therapist takes more time off than most ... I think she averages 6 - 8 weeks off per calendar year. So you would think I'd be use to this interruption and/or after so many years that it wouldn't phase my psyche. But as soon as she announces her vacation plans, it feels as though I've been kicked in the stomach.
And I do feel less desperate than in years past. So that is (some) progress. What I have noticed most this time around, the weekends are the hardest. By Thursday I am already anticipating the loss that comes around on Monday morning when I will have missed my appointment. However, once I get past Monday, the rest of the week sort of takes-over, work, kids, dinner, chores, some evening activity, etc. And it all comes screeching to a halt on Thursday when panic sets in.
Another thing that I find that helps is exercise. I'm old :) But doing some cardio that elevates my heart rate really does send some of those happy chemicals to my brain that calms the panic.
And all of us, always make it through. I remind myself of that too. I ask myself, "why does time move so slowly when she goes away?" "why does her absence affect me so much?" "why does it matter?". My daughter will be off to college in another year. But that will be different ... I can call or text her occasionally, she will be accessible.
I guess this post is me thinking out loud. And I want to give encouragement to those whose therapist start taking vacations in August. It's never easy but we need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and before we know it, they're back.
Posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:19:56
In reply to Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
and once they're back, we can go back to being mad at them again.
Posted by tetrix on July 17, 2011, at 16:37:12
In reply to Re: Oh ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:19:56
hahahaha
hang in there
Posted by Dinah on July 17, 2011, at 16:46:15
In reply to Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
That *is* progress! I find the same thing. There was a time when I would have been frantic for a phone session, or bookending sessions around his days off. Now it's sad but not so upsetting. My pattern is to be very anxious and tearful right after the last session, then to feel less frantic as time goes by.
How often are you seeing her now?
I can't believe your daughter is nearly ready for college. I can't believe my son will be soon. When did time start going by so much faster? I wonder if it speeds up each year we get older?
Half over. It's half over.
Posted by lucielu2 on July 17, 2011, at 19:36:28
In reply to Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
My experience has been very similar to yours, annierose. In earlier years, the lengthy (3 weeks for my T) August vacation was almost unendurable. I have a ton of sympathy for those on this board who are in earlier stages in their therapy - been there, know what you're feeling. But I agree with you, it does get better, and you do find ways to cope and for the most part, it just doesn't have that same edge as in those early therapy years.
Having said that... separations are never easy. My daughter is a little older than yours and will be going away to college this fall. Although she is going to a school nearby, she won't be living with us anymore. Separation issues have already started kicking up again. I had worked through a lot in therapy - the only good thing about those long vacations is that they offer opportunities, albeit uncomfortable or painful, to work through separation. Last year's August was pretty uneventful, but I think this year may be harder. I can feel it already resonating with my daughter's departure. Although I know that sometimes I experience things before they happen and then when they finally happen, it is anticlimactic. Sometimes I feel like the White Queen in Alice who cried before her finger was pricked, lol.
Anyway, I guess my point about all this is that for me, the August separation from T is a mirror of what's happening in my life in general. If I'm experiencing an uptick in anxiety about separation or any related issues then I'm going to feel more acutely my T's absence. I have gotten to the point in my therapy that the yearning I used to feel in previous years has mellowed into a calmer, more friendship-like relationship. I now know, for instance, that if the yearning picks up again or I find myself thinking of him more often, that it's a signal of some issue rearing its head. All I have to do is figure out what it is and work on it and the yearning recedes. Still, separation is just a biggie for me, and it is busy reverberating this year. And it's not even August yet.
Posted by antigua3 on July 17, 2011, at 19:55:07
In reply to Re: Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by lucielu2 on July 17, 2011, at 19:36:28
Ah, college seems to be on the horizon for many of us. I'm sending my second one off next month and silly me, I thought it would be a breeze since I'd already sent one. Nope, it hurts like hell. I know from past experience, the anticipation was bad and the actual being gone wasn't so bad. this time around I know how bad it will actually be so the anticipation is less threatening. I just refuse to think about her leaving! She's going far, too, to the same school as her older brother, but I know we will see her more.
The house will be so much quieter. I still have one more at home, but it will be so very different, just as it was when the first one left. The family keeps getting redefined.
antigua
Posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 20:59:44
In reply to Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
Thanks for everyone's support.
Yes, it does seem lots of us are sending our kids off to college. I'll still have my son at home but I fear boys push their moms away earlier and stronger ... so his high school years (which begin the year she goes off 2012) may set me up for my empty nest ... even though he'll still be here. Babblers with sons and daughters - did you son push you out in the early teen years? My daughter will still go to movies and shop with me ... so I have her companionship.
The empty nest, in general, gave me much to think about as my marriage wasn't as strong or as happy as I would like. My husband was shocked to learn this news and is working on improving his end of the marriage.
Back to my original post: I see my therapist generally twice a week BUT since her hip replacement surgery and all the interruptions with my work related travels and vacations and her winter vacations ... and upsets in my marriage ... I have seen her three times a week a lot this year ... which probably works out to 8 or 9 sessions a month.
My daughter is going through seperation issues this summer, so I can sympathize, but it also causes me frustration. She is a strong, loud, out-going girl. Her three closest friends graduated this spring and are in college mode. This is freaking my daughter out. She barely makes any efforts to see her friends this summer, and she wants to do EVERYTHING with me. We work-out together, I got her a job this summer where I work, we obviously eat meals together and most evenings she wants to be with me. (I'm off on a tangent ... but she just asked me to join her in another room so it triggered my thought process).
I surely hope this week moves along after tomorrow's missed session. We're touring colleges this Thursday/Friday so that will keep me busy those hard days.
Thank you for your comments, thoughts, and stories. Made me smile. I love my babble friends.
Posted by Daisym on July 17, 2011, at 23:27:15
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 20:59:44
Not all boys push their moms away. It depends on so many things but sometimes the relationship deepens when the "competition" is gone.
I think, for me, my therapist's vacations always needle a bit because they serve as a very real reminder that he has this whole other life that I know very little about. I fight the left out feelings as much as I fight the separation anxiety. It has gotten better over the years. I find it easier if he is gone when I am gone because then nothing is "normal" and I'm off my schedule so much I miss my sessions less.
I hope you get through the weekly quickly. Eat ice cream. :)
Posted by annierose on July 18, 2011, at 8:26:15
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by Daisym on July 17, 2011, at 23:27:15
I agree with that it serves as a reminder that they have a completely seperate life that most of us know nothing about ... I don't even dare to ask her where she is going, although I'm fairly sure she would tell me if I asked.
I hate bumping into a boundary either way. I was at marriage counseloring and that t happened to mention/ask a question about my t's husband ... who I know nothing about and certainly didn't know the fact included in the question asked. I was stunned into silence. I thought to myself, "do most clients know this about their therapists? about their husbands?".
Posted by lucielu2 on July 18, 2011, at 8:35:42
In reply to Re: Thank you » Daisym, posted by annierose on July 18, 2011, at 8:26:15
I'm with you, that seems to me to be a boundary crossing and very uncomfortable. Especially in marriage therapy, where the relationship is the patient, it seems odd to bring another person's relationship into the discussion. And especially when that person is a T, odder still. Was it a good or useful point that she made? Just curious.
Posted by annierose on July 18, 2011, at 14:03:54
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by lucielu2 on July 18, 2011, at 8:35:42
Marriage T was being more gossipy than anything. My individual T was moving her practice and marriage T asked, "oh, is she moving into her husband's building?" I gave him a curious look, and he said, "Your t's husband just bought a medical building so wondering if she is moving there." Well how would I know that?
When I saw "my" t later that same day, I was so angry - but I had not connected the two dots. When I saw her two days later, I told her about marriage t's comment and then she understood more about my temperment that day and the displaced hostility.
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 18, 2011, at 21:11:22
In reply to Re: Thank you » lucielu2, posted by annierose on July 18, 2011, at 14:03:54
Just about the only time my p-doc has seemed angry with me was when I asked too many questions about his personal life. Once he went to Florida and I asked what he did in Florida and he said, you don't need to know that. Once he was chattier than usual and mentioned something about his wife and I said, what does your wife do? He said, that's enough questions.
This was relatively early in therapy. I have learned to tread carefully in this area. But whenever he goes away (he always tells me where he is going if I ask) I realize he has a life without me and that is more painful, I think, than the actual separation.
He's never even mentioned his wife's name, though of course I know it since I have googled and white-paged him thoroughly. I kind of cyber-stalked him at the beginning.
Posted by pegasus on July 21, 2011, at 9:40:50
In reply to Re: Thank you, posted by emmanuel98 on July 18, 2011, at 21:11:22
Wow emmanuel, that must hurt to get those types of responses to normal questions you ask your pdoc. I would find that very hard to deal with. In fact, I'm not sure I could work with a person who had such close boundaries around basic personal information, and not a warm and understanding way of saying no when you stray too far with questions. Because, of course you are curious at least sometimes. Who wouldn't be? We all want to know a little about the people we talk to frequently.
My current T will answer almost anything, and I know lots about his family, hobbies, life experiences, etc. My previous T was a bit more tight with that type of info, but she was very warm when answering. She never said she wouldn't answer, she'd just smile warmly and give a very limited answer, which communicated what was necessary, but also seemed accepting of my asking.
Anyway, I just wanted to make sure you know that this reaction of his is about him, not anything wrong with you.
- P
Posted by Antigua3 on July 24, 2011, at 12:07:14
In reply to Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by annierose on July 17, 2011, at 12:18:49
Hang in there. Vacations are so tough. With my pdoc, I never ask anything when he says he will "be away" for the next appt because I don't want to even imagine where he is or what he is doing. Of course it would be more therapeutic if we did discuss it, but I'm not comfortable with it.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by annierose on July 24, 2011, at 14:32:22
In reply to Re: Week 2 of T's vacation ..., posted by Antigua3 on July 24, 2011, at 12:07:14
The two weeks is offically over tomorrow ... and I have mixed emotions about going. OF course I will be there, but there is another side that says, "think of the money you can save if you can this week" or the gained time in my schedule.
Like you, I never ask questions regarding her whereabouts. My reasons are probably odd ... I'd hate for her to tell me she went to place A B and C and by chance, I was planning to go to one of those places ... I wouldn't want her to think I went there because she did. I told her this and she shook her head, "I don't think like that."
Posted by lucielu2 on July 26, 2011, at 17:13:17
In reply to Re: Week 2 of T's vacation ... » Antigua3, posted by annierose on July 24, 2011, at 14:32:22
Annierose, how did the session go yesterday?Lucie
Posted by annierose on July 27, 2011, at 7:13:36
In reply to Re: Week 2 of T's vacation ... » annierose, posted by lucielu2 on July 26, 2011, at 17:13:17
Well ... as I predicted, it sucked. And it 95% had to do with me, my lack of expectations, the increased awareness of the inbalance in the relationship, and most importantly, why do I get to miss her and she not miss me?
She moved her practice a few months ago to a group practice. The three therapists there stagger their appt start times so no one else is in the waiting room besides you. So I was surprised, I guess, when I approached her office that I saw one of MY therapist's clients leave the office. I am 90% sure she was one of my t's clients since she was holding an envelope from my t's ... she bills her clients at the end of the month and gives it to you at your last appointment of the month. We both stared down at each other. She was younger, pretty, etc. etc.
That encounter did not help my already wounded mood. I sat in the waiting room imagining different scenarios. Did their session run over 15 minutes? And ... I am normally her first session of the day (which I like) ... but it made sense that if someone was having a rough go of it she would add a session to the beginning of her day.
The second thing that tripped me up, as I opened the door from the hallway to the hallway of her office suite, I could hear my t's voice on the phone talking to a potentially new client ... she was giving directions, etc. etc. I went to the waiting room and waited and waited. She was late ... maybe only 2 or 3 minutes ... but if client #1 didn't run over, if she didn't have to add new clients to her schedule ...
you can see where I was going ... no where good. When I got to her office, bingo, there was the pile of client bills on her desk.The power inbalance struck me as I try to talk to her. IF this was a "normal" relationship, I would ask her about her trip, and due to the excessive heat, I might have asked her when she got back (thus avoiding the back to back to back over 100 degree days) ... I might have asked her a ton of things. Instead I asked nothing. Why get shut down. Oh, in the past, I have asked, "How was your vacation?" And she says, "Nice" or "wonderful" ... whatever ... at that moment it wasn't important to me.
I couldn't connect. I couldn't open up.
Prior to her departure, we set up a third appointment for the week, to help ease the transistion back. [I see her two to three times a week ... prior to 2008 it was 3x but with the economy I went down to twice a week but add a third time here and there.]
So with a few seconds left in my session, I canceled my Tuesday appointment. The idea came to me in the waiting room and by the end of the session, I saw it as a great plan and proceeded. Love that teenager inside of me ... I've been glued to the hip with my real life teenage daughter all summer so maybe that's where my attitude is coming from ... hmmm ... I'll need to think about that.
It worked out great. My neighbors were coming for dinner and my appt time was smack dab in the middle of the afternoon... really freed up my day. After exercising in the morning, my two kids and I cooked, cleaned and enjoyed one of the nicer summer evenings in our backyard with a family whose mom is facing her last chemo drip next week.
Are you sorry you asked? I see my t again this Thursday. Hopefully it will go better.
As I type this, it strikes me that I hated the feeling of being in a long line of anxious, excited clients to see her that day. A cattle call.
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 27, 2011, at 19:26:10
In reply to Re: first session back » lucielu2, posted by annierose on July 27, 2011, at 7:13:36
Once I called my SW and asked to change the appointment time and she never called me back. Apparently, she had changed it in her book, but forgotten to call me. I came in and there was a patient waiting and another patient leaving. She saw me briefly to set up a time later in the day. Again, there was a patient leaving. I had never really seen this before -- her full schedule. Also, I generally see my p-doc first thing in his day, so don't encounter patients leaving or coming. That week, he had someone before me, who I saw leave and someone after me, who I saw waiting. I became totally distraught about this. Could barely talk to my p-doc or SW.
In his book about therapy, Irvin what's his name says something about the pain of one therapist, many patients.
We all know it's true. I talked to my p-doc about this and he said a therapist has to have at least 20-25 patients a week to make enough to cover their costs and make a living. But he also pointed out that they spend an hour carefully listening to each of those patients, see them week after week and come to know them well and care about them deeply. It is not like my job (I teach college) where I have 90 students a semester and spend most of the semester just trying to learn all their names.
Posted by annierose on July 27, 2011, at 21:35:18
In reply to Re: first session back, posted by emmanuel98 on July 27, 2011, at 19:26:10
I know you are right. I would have no therapist if it wasn't for other clients too. I think what put me over the edge, on that day, "first day back from a 2 week vacation" all the clients were in the same place ... looking forward to getting back to therapy ... and my therapist, soaking it all up hour after hour of probably the same sort of session. I hated that thought ... really hated it.
I'm so happy that I skipped my Tuesday appointment. It gave me time to think and process my feelings by myself.
Posted by Daisym on July 28, 2011, at 12:58:50
In reply to Re: first session back » emmanuel98, posted by annierose on July 27, 2011, at 21:35:18
I'm struck by two things - how strong the pain is about being "one of many" - reminiscent of your family, I'd guess. And also by the fact that processing your feelings by yourself felt good.
I know for me, when I get overwhelmed by my feelings for my therapist - it is hard for me to let him help me with those feelings -because they are about him. He is totally allowed to help me with other feelings - but I guess I'm always both ashamed and afraid of the intensity of my feelings for him. I hear in my head, "I'm not supposed to be jealous of other clients because I *know* he has to have them;" or "My feelings are too strong and he will reject me, because he has to, in order to not get contaminated by my needs." And on and on. I often want to do what you've done, which is pull away, nurse my own wounds a little and then come back and talk about it...maybe. If I get a handle on it first, it isn't so painful.
But it is a double-edged sword. Taking care of yourself is a good thing. But understanding these feelings and soothing that tender place is best done when things are raw, so that they heal clean. For me, this is the bulk of the work. Learning to trust that the relationship can stand my needs and that it is OK to let someone help me with all my feelings when I need them - not just some of them.
My therapist said to me recently, "there is nothing bad about loving and missing someone. It doesn't hurt them - who doesn't want to be loved? And it doesn't make you a weak person for loving and missing someone - it makes you human."
If only I could just believe him...
I hope today goes better.
Hugs,
Daisy
Posted by annierose on July 29, 2011, at 8:35:24
In reply to Re: first session back » annierose, posted by Daisym on July 28, 2011, at 12:58:50
Yes, that feeling of "one of many" runs strong in my life. Darn that big Italian family. Especially true when my mom was so overwhelmed with life in general, and then to 'attempt' to take care of a family, she shut completely down ... so if there were maybe only 1 or 2 kids ... maybe she could have handled being a mom to just a few.
Funny, I saw me canceling Tuesday's session as growth, even though I know it felt like a rebellious teenager. And in the past 8 (gulp) years, I have never canceled a session in anger before. Mind you, she didn't know I was canceling in anger. I calmly canceled - although I'm sure she read between the lines.
During Thursday's session, we both worked hard towards the connection that I long for when I'm with her. She reminded me that she isn't a robot and of course has feelings for me that don't turn off just because she is on vacation.
I smiled to myself when she says at the beginning of the session, "The past few months, you were making such progress towards trusting the relationship, trusting me and poof, it disappears when I went I return. What happened?" I shake my head and state the obvious, "You left me." Really ts ...figure this out.
Posted by Dinah on August 1, 2011, at 11:43:06
In reply to Re: first session back » Daisym, posted by annierose on July 29, 2011, at 8:35:24
Not hard for me to understand.
My therapist has been away two half weeks in a row, and I'll miss another half week when I have minor surgery.
Whenever I saw him for the last little while, I think of him as "he who deserts his clients". I know it's silly. I know he goes out of his way not to schedule long vacations, and is rarely gone a week at a time much less more. I don't even really need him as much. But still... He is one who deserts his clients.
First sessions back to tend to be difficult. Maybe it's because we're feeling too much pressure to be adult and not tell them exactly how we feel. Or we know that they won't really understand. Or maybe it just reminds us of the possibilities. Having unexpected sibling issues crop up at the same time just makes things worse.
I hope things get back to normal soon.
This is the end of the thread.
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