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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 14:05:12
In reply to Re: omg » Dinah, posted by gardenergirl on March 18, 2011, at 12:46:46
I'm really not ok. I've been feeling hurt for weeks each time he drifted off in thoughts or fell asleep. I leave each session feeling far worse than when I came in. But for him to admit to everything I feared is like a kick in the stomach.
I kind of want to hurt myself. But I'll try to resist. It's just that I hurt so bad. My skin feels electric with hurt and anger. Risperdal, I think.
Posted by muffled on March 18, 2011, at 14:05:29
In reply to Re: omg » Daisym, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 14:02:33
:( (((( Dinah ))))
Posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 14:07:59
In reply to Re: omg, posted by pegasus on March 18, 2011, at 12:33:38
He blew it, and he was an idiot, and it's far from the first time. He's not always a good therapist, even if sometimes he's a great therapist. But today his hurtfulness was beyond my belief and comprehension.
I know he has been having problems at home that were particularly acute last night. But still, to have said the things he said today...
There is no excuse in the world.
Posted by muffled on March 18, 2011, at 14:13:49
In reply to Re: omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:45:21
Can you at least sorta consider another T to help you thu this?
Its like your T relationship has kind gone wrong, and I am not sure you and he can sort thru it. That maybe it'd be better to bring in another fresh perspective?
Remember how hard it was for TG to get a new T? She kicked and fought, but she did....tho now she is searching for another one. But once you HAVE done a hard T switch, it gets easier.
I am quitting my T, and its still hard, but its easier than the first one.
Sometimes you just got to move on.
Maybe he can just be kinda more supportive, and you see him 1x/mo, just to say hi, not so much to 'do' therapy. Then he is still 'there' in a fashion...
And if you want to continue therapy....then find a diff T.
I sorry this hurts so bad :( It'd hurt me too :(
Please don't hurt yourself. This is hard, but you will work thru it somehow.
Posted by 10derheart on March 18, 2011, at 14:28:47
In reply to Re: omg, posted by muffled on March 18, 2011, at 14:13:49
Oh dear. ((((Dinah))))
I'm not quite sure what to say yet.
Not sure I *can*/*should* say a thing...and you know why.
I suppose I immediately figure I might make it worse, or, I might understand better than almost anyone on the planet.
It would kill me to make it worse...
They just aren't who we think they are or want them to be able to be when in the most crucial and delicate situations, I found out....and am still trying to decide if I believe that's the basic answer, and if so, then what does it all **mean**, anyway.....arggghhhh
Take your meds. Hug the dogs. Don't give up. This seems like a stage of something and he IS STILL CALLING YOU BACK AND WANTS TO TRY...thank heavens...
I'd better shut up. More and more often lately, therapy is all such a da** conundrum and mystery to me....
I don't think you're done with him at all. I think you two at the very least have to talk this through more. Oooooo he said some idiotic stuff, though...I really want to smack him...where's Poet when we need her?
Posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 15:11:40
In reply to Re: omg, posted by 10derheart on March 18, 2011, at 14:28:47
He called back, yes. But he didn't change what he was saying. Which was more or less that if we couldn't figure out a way to engage him (he added make therapy useful to me, but since its usefulness depends on his engagement I'll ignore that), that it was time for therapy to end.
I don't suppose he'll call back until he's figured out a way to feel engaged in therapy again, and I'm not really expecting him to find that.
I'm welcome to come back if I need him (his words).
I hadn't realized how much my recent feelings about therapy were related to his sleepiness (and now his admitted feelings of disengagement) until today. It's really hard to go into therapy and struggle to maintain your therapist's interest. I start and drop topics when I see he's bored. I suppose I could make stuff up, but...
I feel so dull and uninteresting and totally beneath contempt. Not to mention intrusive, in the sense that I just kept coming in beyond the point where there was a point.
He did frame it in sort of positive terms about my growing and learning and stuff. Bah. &%(@ him.
Posted by obsidian on March 18, 2011, at 17:30:00
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
Holy crap Dinah and OUCH
It sounds like hurt :-(
I am so sorry.
I don't know how this will go for you, but I hope for something, a resolution, much better than this.
Do be careful with yourself. You give good advice about that. I hope the risperdal helps. ((((Dinah))))
Posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 20:37:19
In reply to Re: omg » Dinah, posted by obsidian on March 18, 2011, at 17:30:00
Thanks sid.
I don't know if there *is* a better resolution than this. I have always been very skeptical about a "good" ending. I think it would have been a better ending had he expressed his regret at his sleepiness, said he understood my unwillingness to have therapy under those circumstances, and hoped that someday we'd be able to try again. Then at least I would have the illusion that it was my choice because I was no longer getting what I wanted for therapy.
Not that I had been right in picking up his boredom and lack of engagement.
Risperdal helped a lot, thank you, as did a nap.
I think I'm not going to think of it as termination so much as just not having any appointments scheduled - indefinitely.
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 18, 2011, at 21:17:40
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
I'm so very sorry. This sounds horrible. How can I help?
((((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))
Posted by Deneb on March 19, 2011, at 2:11:48
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
((((((Dinah))))))
I hope you are coping all right.
Posted by Dinah on March 19, 2011, at 10:35:09
In reply to Re: omg » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on March 18, 2011, at 21:17:40
The Risperdal is helping a lot, though I slept badly.
I really wish he'd have kept his mouth shut, other than apologizing for his behavior and saying he understood why I was leaving. It's gotten so bad recently that I'd have left feeling pretty good that I wasn't continuing to accept it. Feeling like it was my choice.
I wish he'd have kept his mouth shut about his feelings. It's changed my perception about the rest of therapy, and that's what is hurting so badly.
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 19, 2011, at 11:43:33
In reply to Thanks Deneb + » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2011, at 10:35:09
Okay, one thing I would suggest (and something I've had to work on a lot with the situation with T1 since her husband died): the bad stuff now does not undo all the good stuff from earlier. For whatever reason, he is not able or willing to be present with you now, but that does not negate the times that he has been present and available to you in the past. Try to hold onto that.
You are right, though, that he should have kept his big mouth shut. Let me know if you want me to call and tell him that.
(((((((((((Dinah)))))))))))))
Posted by LadyBug on March 19, 2011, at 11:45:57
In reply to Thanks Deneb + » TherapyGirl, posted by Dinah on March 19, 2011, at 10:35:09
(((((Dinah)))))
I'm still around, though I don't post, but I wanted to respond to you and tell you how sorry I am you are going through this. I can only imagine how it hurts, I can relate to how much. I certainly hope you can process this. In time you will know what to do. I survived a major rupture with my former T. I really never got over it 100%, even to this day I can remember the pain of what she said to me when my daughter was pregnant and placed her little boy for adoption. This was and still is the most painful thing I've ever gone through in my entire life. It will always hurt, (the adoption). I'm just grateful it's an open adoption and we get to see him. He just turned 3 last week.
I think I know how you are feeling in many ways and I'm sorry. I'm here for you and support you with good thoughts. Time heals most things, not completely but it becomes less painful with time.
You are an amazing person. You've been such a huge help to me since I found this site. I read some posts almost everyday but I don't choose to respond but I couldn't "NOT" let you know that I'm thinking about you at this time.
Our T's become so important to us, what they say to us is multiplied many times bigger than just someone else telling us something. I'm not the greatest at explaining myself like some people are in this group. Know that I care and want the very best outcome for you always.
You and many others are still in my "babble friends" place in my heart. I care so much about you and others that are still around.
Warm regards,
LadyBug
Posted by tetrix on March 19, 2011, at 18:45:00
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
I am very sorry Dinah, I was outraged when I read this post of yours.
This is unacceptable. The amount of power that these people have over their clients puts them in a position of great responsibility. To say things out loud without thinking them through, and how they would affect a person who is already struggling with difficult issues is not only unethical but also borders malpractice. I can only imagine the pain this have caused you.
Posted by annierose on March 19, 2011, at 20:55:58
In reply to Re: Thanks Deneb + » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on March 19, 2011, at 11:43:33
(((Dinah))))
I am shocked and saddened reading this thread. Of course the wisdom on this board far exceeds the wisdom in your T's head at the present time. "What the f*ck?" as my teenage daughter would say, "was he thinking?" NOT .. apparently. There are no excuses.
But the loves remains and it becomes such a burden. We love our therapists despite their foot in mouth moments.
And I must say, I hate that you were calling him. HE should be calling YOU, apologizing, trying to explain his words. Not that I don't understand your need to call him. You are hurt to the core - a kick in the gut type of feeling that lingers.
Give yourself plenty of time before coming to any conclusions. You might want to leave an open door to your heart. You love him despite his flaws. Give yourself the gift of time.
And take good care of Y O U!!
(I have been out-of-town with a high school group, without internet access, or I would have replied sooner. My heart goes out to you.)
Remember you get to decide if this is the end or not. Not him.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 7:03:52
In reply to Re: Thanks Deneb + » Dinah, posted by TherapyGirl on March 19, 2011, at 11:43:33
I suppose it's possible that over time I can come to see it as being another instance of stress in his home life causing him to be temporarily insane. Certainly Friday *must* be, to some extent, for him to not only say things he's never said before (even if he's thought them), but to persevere in saying them even when I was trying my best to reflect back to him what I was hearing and how I was understanding it.
Either that or my getting upset with him for some really egregious examples of falling asleep, and telling him for weeks now that I didn't think I could go on this way, made him angry with me. And consciously or unconsciously lash out at me. Even the falling asleep lately has been so aggressive, if that makes sense, that it has seemed like he is trying to tell me something.
I can't continue this way, of course, no matter what his reasons. It's not therapeutic at all. But maybe I can come to see it as not being a negation of the last fifteen years of therapy. Maybe of the last few months of therapy...
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 7:07:19
In reply to Re: Dinah, posted by LadyBug on March 19, 2011, at 11:45:57
Ladybug, it's wonderful to hear from you. I think of you often, especially in times like this. There are all too many of us in long term therapy with negative experiences.
I think you explain yourself very well, and I hear the understanding of the shock and betrayal.
Thank you for speaking up. It means a lot.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 7:14:04
In reply to Re: omg, posted by tetrix on March 19, 2011, at 18:45:00
He does have a tendency to blurt. The more I think on it (as much as I try not to), the more I see some anger on his side in what he did. In what he's *been* doing. And the more I see it as somewhat understandable from a human side, if not a professional side.
Or maybe he is just bored with me and wishing I'd move on.
Thanks, Tetrix.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 7:32:58
In reply to Re:omg, posted by annierose on March 19, 2011, at 20:55:58
Well, they weren't conciliatory calls on my side. They were angry calls as I one thing after another flashed into my brain of what he said. Finally I realized that I was working myself up into a full blown meltdown, and called him one last time to try to stop myself from falling over the edge. I think during the day at least it's helped. It all feels fuzzy and unreal.
The more I respond to people, the more I see that therapy has been spiraling down for months. Probably since the time I was pulling back from Babble. I had pulled back a bit on some boundaries, perhaps more forcefully than I should have. I didn't say anything directly, but I was a bit more vigilant about not responding to topics that were about him. I perhaps did mention at least once, in a totally different context, that he was my therapist rather than a friend. I think I'd grown to see, and perhaps resent, that he was more animated when talking about himself than when talking about me. Not that that isn't fine in a friend, but I don't pay my friends for their time. I felt really bad and guilty about pulling back on those boundaries, because I do care about him, and maybe if the topic hadn't have been his wonderful job at weight loss and exercise, I might have been more tolerant.
Then the issue of sleepiness was getting to be more and more a bone of contention. Not that he ever disagreed with me. In fact, after I showed him the thread from Babble on the topic, he was properly understanding of how hurtful it could be. But it got worse. And worse. Until it was almost ludicrous. Until it appeared to be some passive aggressive way of showing anger and contempt for me. I would cry almost every session at what felt like a slap in the face from his lack of focus and engagement. I'd leave every session feeling like such a loser that I couldn't even pay someone to pretend to be interested in me.
And of course, I had needed him less lately, and had expressed this to him. He seemed glad and proud, rather than upset. Now I wonder how much those feelings arose from the fact that he wasn't being all that helpful because he wasn't being all that present. Chicken and egg I suppose.
It just snowballed.
Even now I am not sure whether he's acting more from being glad I need him less and wanting to do his part to see that accelerated, or recognizing that he was feeling less engaged because I do need him less. Or anger from any hurt feelings I may have given him.
Though hurt feelings would imply more feelings of attachment than I currently credit him with. I think I've been fooling myself about that.
Posted by annierose on March 20, 2011, at 9:34:33
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
http://www.jung-at-heart.com/jung_at_heart/
all about sleepy therapists ... it doesn't shed much light on the subject, but at least you'll feel less alone
Posted by annierose on March 20, 2011, at 10:49:57
In reply to omg, posted by Dinah on March 18, 2011, at 11:17:22
Have you been able to reach out to your husband for support? Our complex relationship with our therapists are sometimes difficult for spouses to understand. But once in awhile, my own husband can suprise me with supportive understanding (and I stress "sometimes").
Love you and hope you are able to sleep as sleep can be so healing in a way that calms the brain and the body.
Posted by emmanuel98 on March 20, 2011, at 19:22:43
In reply to Re:, posted by annierose on March 20, 2011, at 10:49:57
Dinah - I am sorry this ending so badly after such a long relationship, but OTOH, you have been complaining about him falling asleep, seeming dis
engaged for a long time.
I saw a p-doc for therapy for five years. We cut back to once every 3 months for meds, which was too hard on me, and now see one another every months.
One of the things I have always found hard about him, but also respect about him, is that, for the very beginning he has raised again and again, what are we doing here? What are our goals?
By year five, we both realized there wasn't a whole lot left to do together. Ending the relationship would be hard on me and we would do that gradually, but he does dynamic psychotherapy and we had pretty much gone deeply enough into my past and my emotions and responses and defenses that there wasn't much work for us left to do.
He wanted me to find a DBT therapist to work with so I could get more help in building my tolerance to distress and regulating emotions.
There's something to be said for this, although I found it painful often. Otherwise therapy can drag on endlessly to the point where neither the therapist or client really know what they're doing together, yet there's too much dependence to terminate cleanly and lovingly.
So maybe it's time for you to end or, as you put it, stop making appointments with him for the time being.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 19:26:40
In reply to Re: omg - timing of this article, posted by annierose on March 20, 2011, at 9:34:33
"A little while ago, at a dinner party, I met a prominent analyst, a Kleinian. He is the first therapist Ive known socially, and I confided in him. Id like to go back into therapy, but all four therapists Ive seen in my life have fallen asleep. He didnt laugh. Nor did he ask me how I felt. Instead he took it in, turned it over in his mind, then said, very carefully, Well, the common denominator here is you.
The comment lingered, as any stab wound to the chest would. Then, a week later, he e-mailed me a PDF. In the past I noted a tendency in myself to become drowsy with two patients, wrote the analyst Edward S. Dean in a now-infamous 1957 paper. At times this drowsiness became so strong that I desired more than all else that the hour end, that I be rid of the patient and could take a brief nap. I was surprised to observe that as soon as the patient left, I became instantly fresh and alert.
I think I'll never talk to anyone again as long as I live.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 19:28:33
In reply to Re:, posted by emmanuel98 on March 20, 2011, at 19:22:43
I know you mean to be helpful, and I'm glad it's been helpful to you. But thinking of it that way really upsets me.
I think I need to not think about this at all, or to blame him. I can't bear to think of it any other way.
Posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 19:29:58
In reply to Re: omg - timing of this article » annierose, posted by Dinah on March 20, 2011, at 19:26:40
I mean in person.
I must be terribly objectionable in person. In fact, I've always known I was. Maybe therapy helped me think I might be wrong. Stupid me.
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