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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by catlady on February 25, 2010, at 20:53:16
Is it wrong to want reassurance from a therapist? My therapist mentions termination and cutting back appointments a lot. At first I thought it was abandonment I was feeling but I realized it was actually rejection. I canceled last weeks' appointment because I was so upset and met with her this week. All I wanted her to say was I care about you. I am not rejecting you. I will be here if you need me. Instead she started talking about how maybe therapy wasn't working or maybe I need a different therapist. Then I felt really rejected and told her please don't do this. I was really upset and crying. Finally we kind of worked out the rupture but I left wondering if it was wrong to want her to say something to comfort me or am I supposed to get it from myself. I know there is no guarantees that she will be there or any guarantees at all about life but why couldn't she give me any reassurance? I had a lot of rejection from people and don't deal with it well.
Please let me know what you think. This has really upset me.
Posted by mystickangaroo on February 26, 2010, at 6:08:44
In reply to Reassurance, posted by catlady on February 25, 2010, at 20:53:16
OOh Catlady
How sad and scary for you. Well done for hanging in there and telling - showing your T what life is really like for you. I don't know what life islike with your T but sometimes for me and mine what I think I am very clearly expressing she does not get. Usually it is with new material that I struggle with so I can't describe it all that well cos I can't see it all that well whhich makes it hard for her to comprehend. If that makes sense.
And I can see that there would be times my T would direct me clearly to my own resources. And thre are other times when she is very reassuring. Some times she goes on and on about stuff and I wonder why...
It is my understanding of therapy is that we can ask /say anything.Doesn't mean we will get it or it will be recieved they way we th ink it will but there is no out of bounds.
I am wondering what your next session will be like. Sounds like you Showed a bit more of what life is like for you in the previous session.
I think being honest is a brave and courageous thing to do. You did well.
Posted by obsidian on February 26, 2010, at 7:37:35
In reply to Reassurance, posted by catlady on February 25, 2010, at 20:53:16
no, I don't think there is anything wrong with reassurance.
sorry you're going through this :-(
Posted by antigua3 on February 26, 2010, at 14:27:33
In reply to Reassurance, posted by catlady on February 25, 2010, at 20:53:16
No, it's not wrong to want the reassurance, but there is NO guarantee you will ever, ever get it, and if you aren't going to get it, you'll have to accept it or go somewhere else.
My T hands it out in spades, which is lovely, but my psychiatrist refuses to 99.9% of the time. He always turns it back on me and into something negative, rather than something that is positive and nurturing. I've given up trying to understand why anymore.
But there is NEVER anything wrong with wanting the reassurance. Learning to get it from ourselves is possible, I know this, but having the behavior modeled makes it whole lot easier rather than making it some obstacle for patients to overcome.
sorry, I digress.. and vent.
good luck,
antigua
Posted by annierose on February 26, 2010, at 21:44:41
In reply to Re: Reassurance » catlady, posted by antigua3 on February 26, 2010, at 14:27:33
I do think it's always okay to ask for reassurance and sometimes they give it and sometimes they don't. Maybe it's part wanting to give us wings.
I remember one particularly painful exchange last year: me asking t: "am I going to be okay?" my therapist reply, "if you want it to be." I think I said to myself, "F you"
But my t usually does give me plenty of reassurance.
Posted by rnny on February 26, 2010, at 22:54:49
In reply to Reassurance, posted by catlady on February 25, 2010, at 20:53:16
Tell her, "therapists are a dime a dozen. you are right, i think i do need a new T. it was nice knowing you and I may as well leave right now as I can see we have nothing further to discuss" and get up and walk out. that may sound crass but if she is upsetting you this much, i think you should say what i suggested! and so just that. start shopping around. yes, i do think a therapist is there to reassure you with the issues you bring up. that is why i dropped one T while shopping around and never went back after a few visits. she was lacking in the visible showing of compassion. as a person who has suffered abuse i need someone with a kind approach and she sure didn't have it. you have rights you know and one of them is to be at peace with the T you choose to help you get better.
Posted by catlady on February 27, 2010, at 0:14:28
In reply to Re: Reassurance, posted by rnny on February 26, 2010, at 22:54:49
Thanks everybody for your replies. It has been helpful. I am in a better spot today but still confused. The thing with my therapist is that she is normally very friendly, sweet,caring etc and she means a lot to me. That is why it surprised me. She usually doesn't act so cold and unfeeling. It puzzled me because she acted this way. I have never seen that side of her. That was part of what was so upsetting. I was thinking who are you and what have you done with my therapist? The first 40 minutes of the appointment was extremely painful and difficult for me, then the last 20 minutes was a lot better and we sort of reconnected. I see her this Thursday and I will try and bring up this and how I felt and hopefully this appointment will go much better. I want to fix the relationship, I have been with her a little over 2 years and she has helped me a lot, probably more than she knows but admit that I miss how it was before all this. Ruptures in therapy suck.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 10:14:07
In reply to Re: Reassurance, posted by catlady on February 27, 2010, at 0:14:28
You've already made some steps in repairing the rupture, and that's good.
But I was wondering about your certainty that this was rejection. I can understand why it would *feel* like rejection, but feelings and understanding don't need to be the same.
You say that you've gotten much better in the two years you've been seeing her. Perhaps she's acknowledging that and thinking that it's time to move to a new stage of therapy. The stage where you start to look outward and rely on her less. And some therapists just aren't so good at dealing with attachment issues, and maybe she's thinking she can't help you with this.
Believe me, I understand how that feels. There is nothing like my therapist edging me to try my wings to make me hurl myself at his knees and wrap myself around his ankles. And it has happened. That my therapist quit trying has more to do with his therapeutic stance than with my powers of persuasion.
Maybe rapprochement might include allowing a good deal of doubt as to whether this is abandonment and even more, rejection. Abandonment can happen for many reasons, but rejection seems to imply that you know she has negative feelings or finds you unworthy or unacceptable. From what you've said, there isn't a lot of evidence for that. In fact it seems very unlikely.
Maybe you could talk with her about her general views about therapy and stages of therapy and long term therapy and termination. If you make it general and not about you, it might be easier to get a general idea about her view of things. Then if she talks about her view of where *you* are in that process, you can put it in better perspective.
And definitely ask her why she thinks another therapist might be able to help you better. For me, I think attachment issues need to be addressed with the therapist you're attached to, and other therapists should be used only if that's impossible. That's what is supposed to be the difference between therapy and other relationships. If you have attachment issues with a romantic interest or a friend, it's not really their responsibility to help you learn to deal with that. But a therapist? This is what they do! This is what they should do. This is part of the whole therapy package, for those who need it.
It would be interesting to hear what she has to say.
But I definitely would not conclude that this is in any way rejection. At *absolute* worst, I would think it was a statement about your therapist and her limitations and strengths.
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 10:23:26
In reply to Re: Reassurance, posted by annierose on February 26, 2010, at 21:44:41
> I do think it's always okay to ask for reassurance and sometimes they give it and sometimes they don't. Maybe it's part wanting to give us wings.
>
> I remember one particularly painful exchange last year: me asking t: "am I going to be okay?" my therapist reply, "if you want it to be." I think I said to myself, "F you"Annierose, that made me laugh so hard.
You would not believe the negotiations my therapist and I have had about reassurances. He absolutely refused to answer the "okay" question and I absolutely insisted that he answer the question. We ended up arguing the fine points of what his answer would mean, and decided that it would only mean "We are ok, and whatever problems we have, I'm committed to working them with you." Then we expanded it to something like "Life is full of experiences that really aren't ok, but whatever life has in store, I have confidence that you will deal with them, and I will support you in that as much as I can."
But all of that involved negotiations on each word worthy of international treaty negotiations. :) My therapist would say I had missed my perfect career.
Posted by antigua3 on March 1, 2010, at 8:23:21
In reply to Re: Reassurance, posted by annierose on February 26, 2010, at 21:44:41
But.. but.. but.. my psychiatrist will reassure me that yes, I'm going to be OK.
Maybe I ask too much of reassurance. I want reassurance that he cares, and he isn't willing to give that. And how can I work with someone I'm not sure cares about me?
It's such a vicious cycle, but I don't think I'm being given a chance to learn to fly, I've been shoved out of the nest. But, then again, what nest?? Never had one. Feeling alone is really hard.
But you made me laugh, which is a nice start to the day.
antigua
Posted by annierose on March 2, 2010, at 7:09:02
In reply to Re: Reassurance » annierose, posted by antigua3 on March 1, 2010, at 8:23:21
Yes - - - reassurance that my t cares, that is something I want too. I ask her that all the time. Sometimes she ticks off a list of ways she shows she cares: I never cancel your appointments, I'm always here on time, I'm always present in our sessions ...
SERIOUSLY --- I will say --- that is your job. That is who you are, not because you care about me. And then she just smiles a knowing smile that says, "No matter what I say, you will find fault."
Posted by sassyfrancesca on March 2, 2010, at 15:24:37
In reply to Re: Reassurance » annierose, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2010, at 10:23:26
(((Dinah))): I just love you! You sound so much like me; i will argue to the death when i think I am right....and tell my t just what I think of his (some times) "psychobabble"
I love being a challenge, LOl, LOL
Hugs, Sassy
Posted by sassyfrancesca on March 2, 2010, at 15:29:05
In reply to Re: Reassurance » antigua3, posted by annierose on March 2, 2010, at 7:09:02
That is what drives me nuts sometimes.....using that psych. talk........If you ask if they care for you.....why can't they simply say (without reading you a whole laundry list):
Yes, I care about you. Life can be simple....they want to psychobabble it to death.
I told my t that life is basically about common sense......
I asked if he would miss me (have to see him less)...his response: "I will be happy to see you whenever you can come in."
I let him have it, LOL, LOL....I basically said: "Wow, what a by-the-book, psychobabble, page 24, sentence in the DSM, response that was."
Posted by antigua3 on March 2, 2010, at 18:13:21
In reply to Re: Reassurance » antigua3, posted by annierose on March 2, 2010, at 7:09:02
But do you notice that those examples she uses are negative things--things she doesn't do, like being late or missing appts (ha!, I don't even have that one). That's not what this is about! My pscyhiatrist will go as far as saying, "I care about your well being." What??? That is besides the point. It's like he's describing a thing, my well being, instead of me as a person. He is strong advocate against dependency, but I really do believe that we learn better when they model the behavior.
My T says she doesn't understand why it's so hard for my psychiatrist to tell me he cares. She tells me she loves me all the time. It hasn't turned me into a stalker or deranged patient of hers. It has helped me understand that I am loved. But he makes it so negative.
Guess you can tell I'm more than annoyed. Part of me thinks he is doing this all on purpose, to make me more independent, but then I stop and think, wait a minute, he doesn't think that hard about me. I'm making him out to be better than he is.
antigua
Posted by emmanuel98 on March 2, 2010, at 20:07:12
In reply to Re: Reassurance » annierose, posted by antigua3 on March 2, 2010, at 18:13:21
My T always said that he cared a lot about me. He would say, of course I care about you. We see one another for an hour every week, which is more than I see most friends. Once I said he only cared about me because I paid him and he wouldn't see me if I couldn't pay him. He said, that's not true. If you lost your job and couldn't pay, I would still see you and you would pay me what you could afford, maybe only $10 a week.
Some T's won't say these things. They get freaked out by transference issues. But I always felt, with my T, that he really cared and, while I was definitely in the throes of transference, it wasn't all transference and distortion. We had a real, human relationship, even if it was limited by the institutional constraints of therapy.
Posted by emmanuel98 on March 2, 2010, at 20:23:57
In reply to Re: Reassurance » annierose, posted by antigua3 on March 2, 2010, at 18:13:21
One thing I should add is that my T never said he cared about me without my bringing it up. He didn't offer reassurance unless I asked for it. You can't expect people to know what you want unless you ask. At the beginning, I couldn't ask. I was like a baby who wanted my needs attended to without my being able to ask. This is because I wasn't cared for as a baby. But now I'm an adult, not a baby, and I have to ask for what I need.
Posted by Dinah on March 3, 2010, at 0:14:53
In reply to Re: Reassurance » annierose, posted by antigua3 on March 2, 2010, at 18:13:21
It seems very silly to me. Not in short term therapy perhaps, but in long term therapy where a client has seen a therapist for years at often more than once a week. My therapist used to use those silly therapy words. And refuse to say anything directly.
I think I told him one day that of course he felt the things he said, and he felt them for every client who came through the door most likely. I think he'd even said something like he cared for all his clients. And that if, after seeing him all this time and all that often, he didn't feel any more for me than he felt for a client who'd seen him a few weeks, then I had wasted a whole lot of time building a relationship with him.
After a bit of thinking about this - a good bit because I think it was a later session, I think he came to the same conclusion that Emanuel's therapist was smart enough to come up with much earlier. That he'd seen me for an hour or two hours a week for years. And that of course he'd grown to care for me. What kind of person would he be if he hadn't? He started to be willing to say that he cared for me and quit dancing around the topic.
He still usually frames it in terms of how long we've seen each other and how much work we've put into building up a relationship rather than any particular personal qualities in me.
But I do suppose I see the reluctance as well. I think clients can and do read too much into what they say about caring for us. I'm pretty sure that one reason my therapist says what he does say is because he knows that I'll never believe it means more than it does. My problem is more along the lines of believing that it means as much as it might.
Still, I can't see how in most of the contexts we're discussing, where an honest statement of what probably is there already could possibly hurt nearly as much as it could help.
But then again, I'm not sure how much it would help either. I believe my therapist somewhat now. But it doesn't take much to shake that belief. It must be annoying for him to have me constantly doubting him.
Posted by Dinah on March 3, 2010, at 0:18:10
In reply to Re: Reassurance, posted by emmanuel98 on March 2, 2010, at 20:23:57
Emmanuel is also quite right about needing to ask for what we want.
And of course...
I really do usually believe that he cares about me now. But words alone wouldn't have convinced me any more than the kind of actions that Annierose's therapist mentioned.
Oddly I believe it most when he seems irritated to say it, or when he includes some uncomplimentary things in with it.
Posted by antigua3 on March 3, 2010, at 15:29:26
In reply to Re: Reassurance » emmanuel98, posted by Dinah on March 3, 2010, at 0:18:10
I agree that we (patients) have to ask for what they want and that can be very difficult. I'm always afraid of rejection, and it happens more than I'd like. I've been very direct with my psychiatrist about this need, but after several years of seeing him, I don't feel I'm any different to him than any of his other clients. IMO, he probably likes me a whole lot less because I'm so difficult.
When I lost my job last year and had no money, my T said she'd accept whatever my insurance paid (a whopping $30), and my psychiatrist refused to do anything to help me out.
So sorry to hijack the thread, catlady. Not very nice of me.
It's time for me to go, to find a new psychiatrist for meds management only. I know it's time, but it's also so very difficult. He could care less.
This is how getting to the end of your therapy feels like.
antigua
This is the end of the thread.
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