![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 10 of 10. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
I'm in a weird space. I went to therapy on Monday, happy to see him and with lots to tell. I wasn't stuck like I am sometimes after a break. I talked most of the session. We did open up some hard things, particularly about my mother. Spending time with her always makes me long for what she just can't give.I found myself super angry after the session. I was angry at my therapist without any real reason. It was about how one-sided this relationship is and about how much more important it is to me than him. I tried to write about it and figure it out but mostly it was just a rant about being "tricked" into caring for someone who didn't, couldn't or wouldn't, care about me.
On Tuesday, I forced myself to tell him about these feelings. It was hard - because we were going on another break for the rest of the week. I didn't want to be upset with him or worse, think he was upset with me. I couldn't get it right, the more I talked, the less I made sense. It was frustrating. Because I could hear myself and I knew how ridiculous it all was.
Of course he cares about me. And of course, he can't be part of my "real" life - nor me his. This is a therapy relationship. He asked me what kind of relationship I wanted from him - and I honestly answered "the one we have." Because I wouldn't trade it for anything. So why was I mad? Somehow there was this whole idea that he doesn't share, but when he does, it hurts sometimes. Or he doesn't touch - but I'd freak out if he touched me. He says he thinks about me, even when I'm not there, but how do I trust that? I couldn't get to it so he asked if I could try to write it and send him an email about it. I did try - and he wrote back. I felt better but not completely.
The anger has kind of dissipated over the past few days. But there is this lingering frustration - is this the optimal frustration that Kohut talked about? The frustration that motivates us to make changes - to DO something about the loneliness?
Sometimes I hate therapy. It feels too complicated and like one more thing to have to deal with. But part of the hate is the fear of losing him - of losing my space there. So how do you reconcile all of this? Is this something we have to keep bumping up against in a long-term therapy? And how much do all these feelings stem from spending time with my mother? Could I really be mad at her for not being there and now I've (God forbid) "transferred" these feelings?
I'm such a cliche. Ug.
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2009, at 12:35:47
In reply to Optimal Frustration, posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
Geez I hope my kids don't hate me for things as I gave my life to them. Now my Mother is dead and can't discuss verbal abuse or if she even wanted me. Phillipa
Posted by Dinah on January 2, 2009, at 16:17:21
In reply to Optimal Frustration, posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
I can only say that it wasn't that long ago that I was posting about the same sort of anger, and I now really do feel peace about it. I'm not sure what changed in me that I could accept he actually cared. And I'm not sure it could hold up under strain.
I think it's entirely possible that your mother might have something to do with it. If not with direct transference, then at least in maybe making you feel more clingy? Even though I'm relatively fine with the relationship now, even small disruptions can make me tearful and limpet-like. (sounds so much better than leech-like doesn't it?)
My therapist was planning to be out of town today, and I ended up leaving a message on his machine along the lines that I didn't remember if I'd asked him if it was ok to call him. This is a tradition at the end of each session, and if I forget to ask or he forgets to offer, I generally head back and stand by his door until he laughs and says it. So I'm relatively sure I asked. But just a short absence was enough to make me want to call for reassurance. I was lucky, perhaps, that I didn't have my phone on when he called back and he left a warm and amused reassurance on my answering machine. So I can transfer it to my iPod and have it always.
But even so, I felt anxious inside until he called and said he had postponed his trip. So maybe a combination of his actual vacation and spending time with your mother?
Posted by raisinb on January 2, 2009, at 18:23:35
In reply to Optimal Frustration, posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
It took me a long time to realize that whenever I felt extremely attached in that painful-longing-sad sort of way, I got angry soon after. Usually I construct reasons for this (she doesn't say this..this...this...she doesn't hug me...she doesn't call enough...etc.) Even longer to realize that even when these things were fixed or I realized I didn't want them or couldn't handle them or felt ambivalent about them, I came up with other things. I think I like being angry better. It's not rational; I usually don't have any "justifiable" reason. But sometimes it helps me to think of anger as just a coping mechanism, not a response to an actual or perceived insult or deprivation. Even though those happen too. If that makes any sense at all! :)
Posted by Annierose on January 2, 2009, at 18:26:07
In reply to Re: Optimal Frustration » DAisym, posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2009, at 12:35:47
I'm not sure what you meant Phillipa --- if I have experienced an unsupportive/unloving relationship with my mother, I am not allowed to be angry with her because she gave life to me?
I do not think I agree with that.
I think my mother was not able to give me what a child needs --- loving attention, kindness, etc. When a child is left to grow up on its own, it's sad.
I think Daisy has a right to express a frustrating relationship with her mother --- irregardless of childbirth.
Posted by Annierose on January 2, 2009, at 18:31:24
In reply to Optimal Frustration, posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
Yes, I think you could really be mad at her for not being there to protect you --- isn't that what mothers try to do if given the chance --- protect their children.
Therapy is so complicated - as you know. We wouldn't want to trade our therapist for any other, but yet the relationship is frustrating as it leaves with a hole in our heart when there are forced seperations.
I wish I had further insight. But I do believe we do keep moving forward --- even though there are detours, mis-steps and rest stops along the way.
If only we could read their minds ... wait ... that might be too scary.
Posted by Phillipa on January 2, 2009, at 21:20:20
In reply to Re: Optimal Frustration » Phillipa, posted by Annierose on January 2, 2009, at 18:26:07
No my own grown kids gave them the attention my own Mother never gave me everything was my fault as a child. With my kids nothing ever but positive praise ignored bad behavior. Love Phillipa ps now my kids ignore me never there. History repeating itself kind of in reverse. neglect from kids.
Posted by antigua3 on January 2, 2009, at 22:45:00
In reply to Re: Optimal Frustration » DAisym, posted by raisinb on January 2, 2009, at 18:23:35
I agree with everything you said. That's what I do. Turn to anger as the coping mechanism because the alternative is too scary.
Thanks for helping me understand this better.
Daisy, you are so right on too and are doing a great job. Funny what's been holding me together is knowing that if I need him, my pdoc is there and that he cares. Then I get scared and angry. All very typical, I'd say, so hang in there!
antigua
Posted by seldomseen on January 4, 2009, at 10:39:21
In reply to Optimal Frustration, posted by DAisym on January 1, 2009, at 23:56:58
If this is the "optimal frustration", I think it is shared between your mother and your therapist. I don't think you are transferring anger at your mom to your therapist, but are perhaps coming to terms with the fact that neither relationship is satisfying your needs. Obviously, the relationship with your therapist comes closest, but, as you indicated, still falls short.
However, IMO, what IS so good about the therapeutic relationship is that you always will have a place there. Having read about your relationship with your T over these past years, I am quite confident that he will keep you close as long as you want to have him there.
Are you lonely Daisy? If so, then perhaps that is a good sign. Maybe it indicates that you are ready to begin looking for more mutual relationships.
Rather than heralding the loss of the therapeutic relationship, I tend to think that these more mutal relationships are a natural outgrowth and extension of it.
The safety and intimacy of your relationship with your T will always be there.
Seldom.
Posted by lucie lu on January 4, 2009, at 17:33:29
In reply to Re: Optimal Frustration » DAisym, posted by seldomseen on January 4, 2009, at 10:39:21
> If this is the "optimal frustration", I think it is shared between your mother and your therapist. I don't think you are transferring anger at your mom to your therapist, but are perhaps coming to terms with the fact that neither relationship is satisfying your needs. Obviously, the relationship with your therapist comes closest, but, as you indicated, still falls short.
Seldom, thank you. I have been struggling with similar feelings as Daisy's, and have had no words of wisdom to offer. What you wrote feels helpful to me.Daisy, all I can say is that I empathize with you... I wish things didn't feel so hard sometimes.
Lucie
> However, IMO, what IS so good about the therapeutic relationship is that you always will have a place there. Having read about your relationship with your T over these past years, I am quite confident that he will keep you close as long as you want to have him there.
>
> Are you lonely Daisy? If so, then perhaps that is a good sign. Maybe it indicates that you are ready to begin looking for more mutual relationships.
>
> Rather than heralding the loss of the therapeutic relationship, I tend to think that these more mutal relationships are a natural outgrowth and extension of it.
>
> The safety and intimacy of your relationship with your T will always be there.
>
> Seldom.
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.