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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Suedehead on November 12, 2008, at 18:57:36
I'm sick. Have been for the last couple of days and probably will be tomorrow, too. In fact, I suspect that it's going to get a bit worse before it gets better. I have a session scheduled for tomorrow morning and I think that I'm going to go despite my illness. Maybe it would be better for me to try to reschedule--after all, I may be contagious (who knows?) and I don't want to get him sick. The thing is, though, that I really, really want him to see me like this--worn out, defenses down, too weary to hide my sadness the way I normally do. I'm usually very put together when I see him--I dress pretty well, I'm friendly. He's told me several times that he thinks I'm funny and charming and that I seem very high-functioning for someone who has suffered from depression for most of her life (though I should clarify here that he isn't doubting me when he says this!). I'm looking forward to going in there tomorrow and having the outside match the inside for a change. I feel like I finally have an 'excuse' to be totally pathetic and miserable in his presence and it's incredibly liberating. Does any of this make sense? Maybe I should talk to him about it.
Posted by seldomseen on November 12, 2008, at 19:08:48
In reply to Going to therapy when sick, posted by Suedehead on November 12, 2008, at 18:57:36
It definately sounds as though you need to go in.
Is it just a cold?
Seldom
Posted by lucie lu on November 12, 2008, at 19:08:50
In reply to Going to therapy when sick, posted by Suedehead on November 12, 2008, at 18:57:36
Hi Suede,
Sorry you're feeling under the weather. If you think you can use the time, I would go, especially if you can talk about the feelings you just described. They certainly sound worth discussing. A couple of times when I've been sick and gone anyway, it was wasted time because I just sat there, drooling ;-) My T doesn't worry about contagion. He says his resistance is high enough due to all the people he sees. The criteria we use is whether I feel able to use the session productively.
Take good care, chicken soup etc
Lucie
Posted by Annierose on November 12, 2008, at 19:09:29
In reply to Going to therapy when sick, posted by Suedehead on November 12, 2008, at 18:57:36
I have gone to therapy when sick, but I did call her ahead of time to make sure it was okay that I bring my germs with me. Both times she has said "yes".
This summer I had mono. For two weeks I was complaining how tired I was. I had streph throat - but more than that - I was overwhelming tired. When the doctor did the mono screen and the blood work came back positive, I called my therapist to let her know that I still wanted to see her despite the mono. She reminded me that it made total sense because I kept complaining, "I'm so tired, I'm so tired," throughout my last few sessions. Made me feel like she could trust my self-reporting.
Posted by Looney Tunes on November 12, 2008, at 23:25:27
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick » Suedehead, posted by Annierose on November 12, 2008, at 19:09:29
I agree with AnnieRose, call before you go.
Most T's will be ok with it, BUT just imagine that your T has an illness or takes a medication that reduces his immune system. You wouldn't want to be responsible for getting him really sick.
I think it is courtesy to call.
(And if he says no: I would then curse him out, cry and say "How dare you not see me when I am so sick and need someone now, etc." LOL) ---- you might get a phone session.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on November 13, 2008, at 7:12:11
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick, posted by Looney Tunes on November 12, 2008, at 23:25:27
Yeah, that's a good point, but not only about keeping immunocompromised therapists well, but what about the other patients that share the waiting room, the couch, the doorknobs?
Shouldn't be a problem at all if you disinfect your hands or wash them before your session.
-Ll
Posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 8:04:38
In reply to Going to therapy when sick, posted by Suedehead on November 12, 2008, at 18:57:36
Yeah, it's probably not a bad idea to call first. Pretty last-minute at this point, but still. I'll see what he says. I don't want to get anyone sick.
Posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 18:30:34
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick, posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 8:04:38
I was about to call him when I remembered that he teaches a class right before our session and thus wouldn't be in his office (I don't have his cell number). So, I decided to go, but told him right away that I wasn't feeling well and would leave if he was worried about getting sick. He told me that I should stay, but asked if I knew that he was sort of a hypochondriac. I said that I didn't know, obviously, or I'd have stayed home. I felt pretty guilty at this point, but he reassured me that he didn't want me to leave.
We ended up kind of fighting the whole time. He was pushing me to open up and talk, and I was refusing, because that's what I do. This is an ongoing problem. He told me that he thinks he hasn't been hard enough on me. That he needs to be tougher, to make some demands on me. He admitted that he gets frustrated with me sometimes because he wants me to let him in, and that he thinks these feelings of frustration and longing for connection become sexualized, somehow. Interesting. I didn't respond much. I just couldn't get any words out.
He asked if I carried a version of him in my head. I said that I do, and he asked me what I talk to this fantasy-him about. I said, "If I could tell you that, I wouldn't need a fantasy-you in the first place." We sat in silence for a long time. He said that he felt guilty for pushing me, and that he was worried that he'd hurt me, but that he needed to find a way to make me stop hiding from him. He said something about feeling like he's not allowed to be frustrated with me, and I told him that he is, that I can handle it. He smiled. "What?" I asked. He said, "That was just a genuine smile. The way you said that was really sweet."
On my way out, I finally mentioned (in passing!) this thing that happened this week that has been making me feel really terrible and that I had wanted to talk to him about for days leading up to our session. I always do this. Wait until the last possible second to open up and then feel totally exposed and alone until the next session, during which I shut down all over again, etc. I apologized for being such a pain, and he said (something like), "You're not. Well, you are, partly, but the part of you that isn't is much bigger and more important. And I'm not angry, and I won't ever kick you out, or abandon you, or stop liking you, even when there are problems in our relationship."
I feel totally drained. This is probably a really disjointed post--I apologize for that!
Posted by Dinah on November 13, 2008, at 19:49:19
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick--Update, posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 18:30:34
I like that he's open with you about his frustration. It's always worse when they try to cover up.
Had you mentioned the sexualization first? Did it flow naturally? I think it would feel almost seductive for a therapist to bring it up himself, unless there was a lot of grounding in context.
I could be hearing it wrong though. It's not something I have any experience with. My therapist isn't likely to have any sexualized feelings toward me. I'm not sure I'd like him to bring up any other particularly personal reactions either. But then I have pretty strong boundaries against anything that might come close to intrusive.
Posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 20:24:51
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick--Update » Suedehead, posted by Dinah on November 13, 2008, at 19:49:19
No, I hadn't mentioned the sexualization at all, but it wasn't weird when he brought it up. Actually, I kind of appreciated it. Right after his initial disclosure, I told him that I was worried that in the future he'd act like he'd never said anything (out of embarrassment or shame or self-protection), and that I really needed him to continue to acknowledge what had been said in order to feel like our respective experiences of the relationship matched up in some way. I guess it's a matter of wanting to feel some sense of shared reality. Anyway, since then, he has been really good about bringing up attraction-related issues. We both agree that they need to be discussed, but I am often too shy to bring them up myself. Admittedly, there's an element of seductiveness in his initiating the discussions--but this is something that is also acknowledged and worked through.
Posted by lucie lu on November 14, 2008, at 9:53:48
In reply to Re: Going to therapy when sick--Update » Dinah, posted by Suedehead on November 13, 2008, at 20:24:51
Hi Suede,
I hope you're starting to feel better. Thanks for the update. Please don't shoot me for saying this (a simple you're-out-of-your-mind-lucie will suffice), but there are qualities to your "fight" sequence that make me wonder whether you, perhaps unconsciously, are expressing a real discomfort, perhaps an unacknowledged conflict between your relationship with your T and your goals in therapy. Sure, difficulty in opening up is hard and something of a major issue for many people who seek therapy. But in this case, I wonder if on some level you feel pressured to perform for him, to address his feelings, to "do it for him," before you are really ready to.
You've reported in various posts quite a number of statements your T has verbalized about his own feelings: frustration, guilt, hypochondria, sexualization, to name a few. Each of these disclosures can be rationalized and could be helpful in humanizing him, bonding etc. But on the negative side, T self-disclosure can feel, to the client who is vulnerable in this respect, like a subliminal request to attend to his feelings, thus transferring his sole responsibility to the client or the dyad. As was raised in an earlier post, the problem with T self-disclosure is that it often constrains or inhibits those clients who might feel they need to consider the Ts feelings before they've really had a chance to explore their own. Given that so many clients have spent years pleasing others at the expense of their own needs, a wandering focus between T and client can simply and unproductively repeat earlier experiences. This is partly the rationale for shutting out the Ts personal material, so the client can concentrate, perhaps for the first time ever, on his/her own feelings, thought, and needs. In your case, you may feel that you have to justify your Ts faith in you, i.e. his making you his confidante and sharing his feelings with you in ways he likely doesnt share with others, etc. But this may leave you worrying that in return, if you dont reciprocate by letting him in, or producing material, or whatever, that he desires, even if it is because you are just not quite there yet, then he will pull back out of frustration, irritation, second thoughts, maybe even shame. To me this worry seems echoed in your request that he never back off from what he professed at the initial disclosure. His response to you was sweet, very nicely said, appropriate, and reassuring. But if it were me, that wouldnt stop me worrying, deep down. I would feel deeply conflicted by his seductive invitation, no matter how well intentioned, and a sense of pressure (internal as well as external) to provide him with what I thought he wanted, and I would feel very anxious if I couldnt come up with the goods. Maybe I just dont like being coerced (there's a stubborn teenager within me). But I know my response would be either to shut down (usually) or answer with my false self rather than real self, hoping it would suffice (done that too). Of course, that may just be me Ms Insecurity 2008, Cosmic Caretaker, at your service (lol) but I do find that I identify with many things youve written about yourself in your posts. I can imagine how problematic it would be for me to feel responsible for my Ts feelings and expectations of me. My therapy would slow down to a crawl and maybe fail altogether. I have enough problems dealing with and disclosing my own feelings, and I always have to work to keep letting my T in, even after years of therapy!
Just my 2 cents, and thanks for listening. Talk about rambling! Maybe it doesn't fit you at all, maybe I'm just projecting - fits me to a T ;-)
LL, CC
Posted by lucie lu on November 14, 2008, at 15:47:58
In reply to ugh, I'm so long-winded :-0 » Suedehead, posted by lucie lu on November 14, 2008, at 9:53:48
p.s. As if I haven't already said enough. What started my whole train of thought in the first place was your very first post in this thread. You said you wanted him to see you as you really felt, tired, depressed, bedraggled, and not as he seemed to see you instead, high-functioning, cheery etc. That made me sad. The image of you "performing" in your session yet longing to put down the mask flitted through my mind. So I wondered, what is keeping you from doing that - you or him, or more likely both? Well, your part is totally understandable, that's what you are there for. So that's when I started looking at his.
OK I'll stop now. Really.
L.
Posted by Suedehead on November 14, 2008, at 16:38:07
In reply to p.s. (no long wind, only a short breeze) » lucie lu, posted by lucie lu on November 14, 2008, at 15:47:58
Hi Lucie,
Thanks for your thoughtful responses! I think a lot of what you said is spot-on, honestly. I *do* feel pressured to perform for him. I'm terrified of doing/saying the wrong thing and being rejected by him, so I spend a lot of time trying to figure out what he wants and attempting to give it to him. It's absurd, because I know that what he *really* wants is for me to open up to him, to stop being so concerned with *his* feelings and to focus on my own needs, desires, etc. Well, that's what he really wants on *some* level, at least. It may even be what he really wants on the 'most important' level. But, of course, it's clear--thanks to all the self-disclosure--that he also wants other things, and this is what stifles me. I know that there are lots of things he likes about me that are decidedly less 'present' in my personality when I really let my guard down, for instance. I'm on my way out the door right now, unfortunately, so I can't write more at the moment, but I'm going to think some more about what you said and will try to give a more substantial response later.
This is the end of the thread.
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