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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
I didn't have therapy last week, for many reasons, to save money, etc. But it also has given me time to think about whether or not my T is helping me right now. I know he has helped me in ways I didn't even know I needed help in, I have learned so much. But it seems like since his illness, he isn't the same and my sessions are not very helpful. It actually is frusterating that he doesn't remember what he should, I know he can't help it. I love him as a person, I think the world of him, but I think I need more right now in regards to therapy.
I hate to say that, but I think I am hanging on because I want him to come back. So I don't know what to do. I feel like I am starting all over again in some issues.
There is this T who I talked to a few months ago when I went shopping for one when my T made me angry, I liked him on the phone. I was wondering if I should possible set up an appointment with this guy, and slowly terminate with my current T, while seeing if this other guy will work. I don't want to be left T less, so maybe I should at least try to find one.
My heart is torn though, because my T has done so much but it seems it come to a point where he has done all he can do, and maybe if he didn't get sick, it would be more. I kinda wonder if I just need accept what is going on and try to help myself move on.
Thanks for reading, if you got this far. As you can tell I feel so confused.
Posted by healing928 on September 21, 2008, at 21:59:50
In reply to I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
(((((((((((lemonaide)))))))
I am so sorry you are going through this with your t. I had an experience where i got upset when my t wasn't available a few months ago and wanting your t do be there and when he or she isn't is very painful. When I took a break from my t and saw another, t #2 made it clear he didn't want me to see t #1. I guess t's don't like you to have more than one t because it can be counter productive in treatment.
Have you tried to be completely open and honest with your t? My t came around when I actually fired him. We stayed in touch, and the break actualy helped me with my dependence issues.
Take care,
healing
Posted by Phillipa on September 21, 2008, at 23:19:17
In reply to Re: I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by healing928 on September 21, 2008, at 21:59:50
I think it depends if he will fully recover from his illness not his fault but maybe try another one if he's not going to be completly well. That would probably be the best for you or give it a break for now and see how he is in a month or so? Love Phillipa
Posted by Nadezda on September 22, 2008, at 10:56:02
In reply to I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
Lemonaide, I'm a bit uncertain: Did your T have heart surgery, or did he have a stent put into an artery that was 80% blocked?
There's a big difference between the two procedures and I think in terms of memory loss, the stent procedure wouldn't cause any of those effects.
When was the heart surgery?
Nadezda
Posted by muffled on September 22, 2008, at 11:15:24
In reply to I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
Sigh Lemonaide,
Its SO hard to know isn't it?
The reasons you gave seem valid.
BUT, they could be excuses too? Mebbe there is more to this than meets the eye? Mebbe you afraid to lose him? Mebbe you afraid he gonna dissapoint ? Dunno. Mebbe nothing. Just good to consider all angles.
Maybe you just have gotten all you can from him? This is possible.
Maybe you guys just in a slump. I used to have slumps w/T too. Then things pick up again.
Dunno HOW you s'posed to know.
Hope you can talk to your T bout this so you can be firm in knowing you have made right descion.
If you don't want to hurt him, mebbe downplay the memory thing. But still make it clear you just don't feel there's progress somehow.
Nothing wrong with switching T's I reckon, just so longs its for the right reasonas and you not running away from something is all.
I think you are an amazing person to have survived what you did and still ended up being a good person.
You take care, you sure have my admiration.
(((Lemonaide)))
Muffled
Posted by LadyBug on September 22, 2008, at 11:33:01
In reply to I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
I'm the "T Failure Queen" so I can't offer any good advice. Just know that I'm thinking about you. I do think you are caught in a tough place. You don't want to hurt his feelings because he has helped you in many ways but you do need more and he may not be capable of it for now due to his health. Plan carefully. I wouldn't want to decide if I were you.
Posted by JayMac on September 22, 2008, at 12:46:25
In reply to I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by lemonaide on September 21, 2008, at 21:44:25
Hugs to you! I don't know that I have any profound advice, just make sure to take good care of yourself in the midst of all the confusion.
Blessings,
JayMac
Posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 13:51:12
In reply to Re: I feel torn about what to do with my T, posted by Nadezda on September 22, 2008, at 10:56:02
It was a stent that was put in, but 2 weeks after that he got a rare virus that attacks your nerves and causes paralysis. They caught his in time and started treatment, was in the hospital for over a week, still has physical therapy to help him walk. He seems physically fine but he was put out for the stent. I know even being put under anesthesia, can cause temporary memory problems.
Well okay, here is the kicker. I called that T I was looking into to talk to him. Well when I disclosed who my T was, he in fact knew of his memory problems because it was discussed in one of his T groups. Now i feel really bad, because there is a problem, and I know he can't help it, but I didn't think I would terminate like this with him. But I have to take care of myself, and I really need someone on there toes to help me. I am so confused on what to do.
Posted by Dinah on September 22, 2008, at 13:58:07
In reply to Re: I feel torn about what to do with my T » Nadezda, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 13:51:12
Well....
You know how much I love my therapist.
But when it looked like he was going to go through another lengthy crisis, I really did come close to quitting. I care about him. I wanted to come back if he got better. But his incapacity has a major impact on me, and one I can't afford.
No matter how much we care about them, we aren't there *because* we care about them. We're there because we need a therapist. I would always have been open to returning. But if I didn't need a capable therapist, I wouldn't be there.
If I could be supportive to him on a different level, that would be great. I'd be happy to do it. But it isn't allowed, and even if it was, I'd *still* need a therapist.
I don't know if it's similar for you, but my thought would feel that you can feel compassion *and* respect your need for a capable therapist at the same time.
Posted by JayMac on September 22, 2008, at 14:10:42
In reply to Re: I feel torn about what to do with my T » Nadezda, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 13:51:12
Oh wow! Major hugs now!
That's a toughy. I do think it was a good idea to contact a new T to discuss the possibilities. Now that you know the whole situation, I can understand that you feel confused.I wonder if your current T is in denial about his health/memory. Nevertheless, your treatment should not suffer. If you don't feel like you are getting the help you need and deserve, then I think you are obligated to yourself to make a change. Of course, it is your decision what you decide.
I hope you can discuss all of your thoughts and feelings with your current T. Who knows, he may have a suggestion.
My thoughts are with you!
Take good care,
Jay
Posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 14:47:50
In reply to Re: I feel torn about what to do with my T » lemonaide, posted by JayMac on September 22, 2008, at 14:10:42
Thanks so much for your support. I am so sad right now, I didn't, I don't want to hurt my T. I know he can take care of himself, but I know this will be hard to hear from me. I adore him so much and think the world of him. Plus it hurts me to do this, but I feel I need to take care of me, and I need more than just supportive therapy. It hurts that he doesn't remember some major things about me, things we spend many sessions talking about. I know he can't help it, but it hurt me because I feel like he doesn't even know me now. He is also past the age of retirement, so it might be time for that anyway if he this continues.
When I asked him if he has been having memory problems a couple of months ago, he told me he asked his doctor and his doctor said there was nothing wrong, it was just temporary. He did seem kinda sensitive to this because he never even asked what he forgot when it came to our therapy. I know if I quit, and tell him really why, it will upset him, I know this is a fear he has of being not able to continue his work because of his age. He was fine before this, very sharp for his age. I just don't want to hurt him, he is someone I care very much for. I am in tears, I have an appointment tomorrow or a last minute one today if someone cancels. I just don't know if I can do this.
Posted by Nadezda on September 22, 2008, at 17:42:37
In reply to Everyone, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 14:47:50
There might be a lot more to this than you realize, though, Lemonaide. I'm not sure there's anything that could cause a permanent memory problem in someone-- unless there's some general condition that he has that you don't know about.
I just wonder if, given all the trauma in your background, and the fears of depending on someone, you aren't afraid that he'll abandon you-- and are running away because you can't cope with those fears.
I'm not saying you are-- I don't know at all if that could be true. I just know that sometimes abrupt decisions of this sort come not from the motives we think we have, but from other, buried ones that are very powerful.
If the other T did tell you anything personal about your T, it seems quite questionable. I'm not sure what the expectations are-- but depending on the group, that could have been confidential information. I guess I just wonder how he could have gotten into a discussion of you about your current Ts limitations. It's seems a bit wrong of him to have weighed in in that way, when he's being considered to replace him.
Just some thoughts-- again-- I'm just wondering a bit.
I'm really sorry you're going through so much.
Nadezda
Posted by muffled on September 22, 2008, at 20:38:30
In reply to Everyone, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 14:47:50
this surely sucks.
But I s'pose T needs to face reality. At some point he was going to have to quit being a T. Growing old sucks, but its reality.
Would you still keep in touch?
I am somewhat puzzled/concerned that the other T said bout something your T said in a group.....that seems REALLY inappropriate :( What goes on in group, stays in group. Thats an age old saying.
So I gotta say I am NOT happy bout that disclosure :-(
Mebbe you need to keep looking for a diff T?
Or mebbe I am paranoid.
Its all just sad.
Take good care, you sure got a good heart.
M
Posted by muffled on September 22, 2008, at 20:40:33
In reply to Re: Everyone » lemonaide, posted by Nadezda on September 22, 2008, at 17:42:37
oh, just read Nadezas reply, I see she agrees :-(
I felt kinda bad bout posting that negative thing bout other T, but mebbe we right.
Sorry.
M
Posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 22:32:42
In reply to Re: Everyone, posted by muffled on September 22, 2008, at 20:40:33
I really don't know what to think. He told me it was a group of T's, I don't know what kind of group or even if there is any confidentiality there within the group. I don't know how that works exactly, it might have even been a social thing too, I don't know. My T is one of the oldest most experienced in the city, so I am sure things do get around because he is such an icon of a good therapist. But knowing I am not crazy for noticing a chance in him makes me feel a little relieved. My T told me that I would notice something like this because of my past, I am inclined to notice even little changes in people, which he told me would be helpful in being a T.
I really don't think I am making a rash decision here, it is something I have been dealing with for a while now. I haven't even made a decision yet. I don't believe I am running away from anything. It is hard for someone to help you when they can't remember much of the year before in sessions. I am trying to help myself here by doing the right thing whatever that is. Therapy is expensive and if things are not going right, not from anyone's fault, but because of physical reasons of the T, someone has to look out for me, and that has always been me.This is really tearing me up, I don't want to terminate with him. If it was up to me, this wouldn't have happened, and I would be with him at least another year and terminate properly. He was even going to be my T mentor, but he has forgotten that too. He has even forgotten I am a psych student. But how long do I wait for him to become him again? Will he ever be him again?
Guillain-Barre syndrome is what he had after a severe bout of stomach flu which is why he had to go to the hospital in the first place. They thought he was having a heart attack, and after testing, they notice a artery was blocked, so they put a stent in. Then 2 weeks after that he came down with the syndrome and was in the hospital for a week again. I know it threw him mentally for a loop, and maybe it is the anxiety of this is what caused the changes in memory.
I just don't know what to do, that is why I posted. I don't want to leave him, but when do you draw the line for staying in therapy because I don't want to hurt his feelings. I do have an appointment with him tomorrow and it scares me. I don't know what to do.
Posted by Dinah on September 22, 2008, at 22:44:29
In reply to I am so distressed, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 22:32:42
Lemonaide, you have an obligation to him to make a healthy decision for yourself. He's been working with you to be the healthiest person you can be. He might be having some issues of his own that are getting in the way of his seeing that. But if he could see what was happening clearly, don't you think he'd be the first person to tell you to do what was right for you?
Not because you don't appreciate him. And not because you don't care about him. But because this is therapy.
If he was his normal self, and you were describing this situation to him, what do you think he would tell you?
Posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 23:09:50
In reply to Re: I am so distressed » lemonaide, posted by Dinah on September 22, 2008, at 22:44:29
He would tell me to take care of myself and do what is best for me. How does one do that when they don't know what the best thing is to do.
Part of me wants to believe I am just overreacting, then I don't have to do anything. It makes me so sad.
Posted by seldomseen on September 23, 2008, at 6:11:24
In reply to Re: I am so distressed, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 23:09:50
"Part of me wants to believe I am just overreacting, then I don't have to do anything. It makes me so sad."
While I don't think you are overreacting, I don't necessarily think you have to do anything right now.
It sounds to me as though your T's memory may be a stumbling block to you feeling known by him.
If you have to constantly remind him who you are, then how can he know you right?
I think your issue gets to the question of "What does it take to know a person". What things are important for him to know, and what things can you let slide?
I think those questions should be at the forefront of your decision making process. Is it like he's meeting you de novo at each session? Is he forgetting what you do each day? Or is he forgetting things that are essential to your recovery?
Again, this is not something that I think you need to act on RIGHT NOW. I think this is something that merits deliberate consideration.
Seldom.
Posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2008, at 9:07:06
In reply to I am so distressed, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 22:32:42
I'm sorry you're in such a difficult situation.
Here's what I would suggest, and just take it as my opinion.
1. You have "real" reasons for wanting to leave your T.
2. You may have "hidden" abandonment issues also that may make you want to leave your T before he leaves you.
What if you make a pact with yourself. You leave this T, find another good one and commit yourself entirely to work through whatever comes up. No T is going to be perfect, but you can work through most things w/a good one. When you feel the need to leave this time around, really examine why and really try to stay.
I'm not saying you're running from yourself because in this case you have very good reasons because of his diminishing health. You don't have to put yourself in this situation; you can choose to move on. But move on knowing that you will have to deal with leaving this T with your new T.
Also, as someone mentioned, I'm not sure that the T you called should have revealed that information. I would assume it was confidential, so I'd think twice about going with someone who speaks so freely.
Just my two cents. I know you're struggling, and please know that I care.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:55:43
In reply to Re: I am so distressed, posted by lemonaide on September 22, 2008, at 23:09:50
Well, I don't have any way to know if you're overreacting. I have what you say, and I have how you've sounded since he came back, and I have how you've sounded before he left. How long has it been? I'm bad at time.
But as SeldomSeen and Antigua have said, there is no reason you need to do anything at once. If there's any doubt in your mind that you may be overreacting, you don't have to decide today.
I may be completely reading you wrong. When you left your last therapist, even though you sounded ready and confident in your decision (which was certainly the correct one on many levels), I could hear unresolved attachment in your words, heavy as molasses. Then I felt the changes in you with this new therapist. I loved how he didn't distract you from the deeper issues, and how he balanced maintaining your defenses with delving into the underlying feelings you were defending against. Now I'm feeling in your words sadness and disappointment and acceptance. I'm not feeling from you the weight of unfinished business.
But that's just my own interpretations of what you're saying, filtered through my experiences, so I could be totally wrong. Certainly I have my own issues with abandonment and loss. And you've had more loss in the last few years than anyone should have. It's entirely possible that you are defending against what could be the loss of another person you care about, and I might just be the person to collude with you on that. Plus, overreliance on my "feeling" has always been a problem with me. And I have had bad experiences with a wounded therapist not performing at a reasonably good enough level even though it was (a very long) temporary. So probably you shouldn't pay all that much mind to what I say.
And, you had been angry with him at one point for his handling of the matter with your old therapist. That could conceivably influence your perceptions in a very subtle way.
Nothing's ever easy, is it?
Posted by lemonaide on September 23, 2008, at 12:42:48
In reply to Re: I am so distressed » lemonaide, posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 9:55:43
Hi Dinah,
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me about this, we have been talking on Babble for a long time now, so you have my history you can take in account for. For what I gather, you feel this ending is different than the other ending of my first T. This is good to know because sometimes it is hard to look at ourselves and see our patterns.
This whole thing has made me think about you and your T and the thing with Katrina and how long you stuck it out with him. All the hurt and frustration for him to come back as the T you knew. I keep asking myself do I need to be more accepting and give it more time like you did. But money becomes an issue too, like it did for you at one time, do we keep holding on to the attachment and paying for therapy even when our T is not fully themselves? I just don't know what to do. Maybe there are not right answers anyway. I wrote about my session today in another thread below. But I wanted to respond to what you said, I can tell you really thought about this and put the time into telling me what you noticed about me. I am very grateful for that, it helps so much.
(((Dinah)))
Posted by lemonaide on September 23, 2008, at 12:48:55
In reply to Re: I am so distressed » lemonaide, posted by antigua3 on September 23, 2008, at 9:07:06
Antigua,
Thanks so much for your words and support. You have given me some good advice and I will continue to think about all of what you said. It is just so hard you know.
Posted by Dinah on September 23, 2008, at 12:53:40
In reply to Re: I am so distressed » Dinah, posted by lemonaide on September 23, 2008, at 12:42:48
It means a lot to have you say that, Lemonaide. Thank you.
You know, my son just had to do a book report. He came to me with a dilemma. He was pretty sure what that the moral of the story was to keep trying, and not let adversity stop you from accomplishing your goal. But he said that even though the boy in the story accomplished his goal, he'd done some pretty stupid things to persevere. He was lucky he'd accomplished his goal and not gotten himself killed.
My therapy story was a lot like that. I persevered and stuck with my therapist when it was stupid to do so. Even knowing what I know now, I look back and think it was stupid and harmful for me to do that. Moreover, I did it more out of fear and attachment than because I knew that it would work out in the end. Even though it worked out, it didn't work out because of my good choices. I just lucked out.
I think that makes it neutral in deciding on a course of action. At least it leaves me with totally mixed feelings. I look back and have a bias because of my experience to think that an impaired therapist is more harm than good to a client during the period he is impaired. And yet I do have the experience of my therapist unimpairing himself and coming back to me, so I have a bias towards persevering too.
I'm no role model.
This is the end of the thread.
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