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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 18:54:40
Got a terribly cold and businesslike letter from my (now ex-)T today. It hurt, like a punch in the stomach, or maybe a stab actually, but I keep telling myself it's not a reflection of her feelings. It's just her being professional. It feels also like she's trying to cover her @ss legally and that of course feels kind of sh*tty but what can I do?I am trying to let it wash over me and move on. In general I have felt very positive about my decision.
Posted by rskontos on April 3, 2008, at 18:59:31
In reply to letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 18:54:40
Crushedout,
I am sorry for your bad feelings. What did she say in the letter. You were feeling so good about your decision. Try not to let her crap rain on your positive energy. You made a decision based on something you felt was right for you. Let it be like water on a duck's back. I think she is vindictive for sending you a letter. I left my other therapist high and dry with just a email canceling an appt. and never rec'd anything from her. Yours is being a non=professional if you ask me. A professional would have left well enough alone. JMHO.
I think you got under her skin. So have a chuckle instead and now let it wash over you and move on.
You are better without her I think.rsk
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:05:15
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast » crushedout, posted by rskontos on April 3, 2008, at 18:59:31
thanks, i am trying to do that. i like the duck's back image.she wrote,
Dear [crushed],
I am writing to confirm your message saying you wish to end your treatment with me at this time. I understand that you declined my recommendation to continue a termination process. Please feel free to call me if you reconsider your decision.
I believe you are in need of continued uninterrupted psychiatric care and would benefit from therapeutic care. My understanding is that you are continuing to work with [your pdoc].
Please feel free to call me in the future if you wish to consult about the possibility of continuing your treatment with me. Please also feel free to call if you are interested in referrals for the future. I will be happy to consult with any subsequent therapist with your permission, if that would be helpful.
I appreciate the effort you put into your treatment.
Sincerely,
[my ex-T]
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:07:15
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast » rskontos, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:05:15
I have a feeling this is basically a sort of form letter. I don't think it's unprofessional, but that doesn't make it not hurt.It was hard for me not to hear the last sentence as sarcastic. I have a feeling she was trying to be sincere.
Am I crazy to think that?
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:09:58
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:07:15
but i don't allow myself to stay there for more than half a moment
Posted by backseatdriver on April 3, 2008, at 19:14:54
In reply to i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 19:09:58
She shouldn't have written to you. She needs to let you go. Once, I had a therapist who did the same thing. A slow "termination" was more important to her than it was to me. But that was her need, not mine! So I terminated fast, on the phone, and that was that. I'm glad she didn't chase me down. I wish your T hadn't tried with you. For some reason, it was important to her to have the last word. That's unprofessional. I think you did the right thing and you're better off without her.
Posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:14:05
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by backseatdriver on April 3, 2008, at 19:14:54
I thought the letter was sincere. But I have had differing opinions than anyone else so what else is new?
To me, it sounds like she is reaching out to you. She is letting you know that she still would like to work with you and she is accepting your decision to quit. That being so, she would like to help you in any way possible in the future .. referrals, letter to new t, etc.
And I think she is telling you that she recommends you continuing treatment with someone. That it is not good for your mental health right now to be without support.
There is unresolved feelings between you two. Sometimes it is better to resolve them before moving on.
I'm sorry this is causing you so much pain.
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 20:17:38
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:14:05
I'm with Annierose.
I think it might well be a standard letter she sends out in this situation, and yes, it might be for legal reasons. But she didn't have to say that resuming therapy with her was an option, so it seems to me that that was making sure that she wasn't shutting any doors.
I've received worse.
Posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:19:14
In reply to letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 18:54:40
I don't know if you know this about me, but I quit therapy suddenly with my current therapist. It tore me apart for a long time. Years later I did contact her again and resumed treatment.
I think what I learned in looking back at why I quit - that yes - at that time she was a new therapist, learning how to deal with someone as contrary as myself, and when she hit a raw nerve - I'd react and want to run away. In the end, I was running away from my fears, not her. But she admitted to me when I established contact again that "it takes years to become a therapist".
For what that was worth ...
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:20:34
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:14:05
thanks annierose. i tend to agree with your reading of her letter.i am very torn as to resolving things with her. i feel like it's too much to face, basically, the goodbye, i mean.
and i'm mad at her for putting a condition on our termination; i.e., that i not google her. even though i haven't googled her since that day anyway, and i don't feel that i need to. i just think on principle that was a stupid move.
not sure where to go from here......i just know i'm falling into a bit of a pit of depression, despite my efforts not to.....
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:26:45
In reply to Re: One more thing ..., posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:19:14
i think i did know that but i had forgotten. it's very interesting and relevant.
i don't want to run away and i also don't want to be masochistic. as much as i would like to be angry at this therapist, and would love to believe she is awful and unprofessional, i really think she wasn't so bad. she definitely made some mistakes but she mostly copped to them immediately and without much defensiveness.
i still worry that she wasn't helping me enough, that that sort of talk therapy can't really help me at this point. and since it causes suffering, the payoff seemed to indicate that termination would be best.
anyway, it's confusing.
> I don't know if you know this about me, but I quit therapy suddenly with my current therapist. It tore me apart for a long time. Years later I did contact her again and resumed treatment.
>
> I think what I learned in looking back at why I quit - that yes - at that time she was a new therapist, learning how to deal with someone as contrary as myself, and when she hit a raw nerve - I'd react and want to run away. In the end, I was running away from my fears, not her. But she admitted to me when I established contact again that "it takes years to become a therapist".
>
> For what that was worth ...
Posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:40:13
In reply to Re: One more thing ..., posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:26:45
>>> and since it causes suffering, the payoff seemed to indicate that termination would be best.
I don't think your therapist is "causing" the suffering, rather examining the hurt in your life is painful and causing you to sort of re-visit that hurt and THAT is what's causing you to suffer. Not her. She is just the vehicle.
And ignoring the pain, well, speaking for myself, that doesn't work for long either. It's deep within us and rears its ugly head whenever or wherever it wants to.
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:41:33
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 20:17:38
yeah, i basically agree. it feels cold though. and that last sentence i wondered if she meant it half-sarcastically. i do hope not.what sorts of worse letters have you received (if you care to share)? you mean from your current T?
i do feel awfully confused now. and i wasn't before this letter. and that is kinda sh*tty. i liked not feeling confused.
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:50:08
In reply to Re: One more thing ... » crushedout, posted by Annierose on April 3, 2008, at 20:40:13
I agree. I wasn't saying *she* caused the suffering--it's the therapy that does it. It's the therapeutic relationship, in that I get so attached to my therapist that I don't have room for anyone else in my life. And talking about it doesn't hurt so much as it simply felt like we were going in circles. I know what I want and I know what I can't have and I know why I want it. What else is there to figure out?It's like banging my head against a wall. Since I've left her, I've felt engaged with family and friends like I haven't in a long time. I am re-investing in the rest of my life.
I totally agree that if I am running away from my issues, that is not going to work. They are going to rear their heads again. But I am not running away. I faced the issue head-on. And then nothing happened.
Nothing. I mean it. I just have to accept that I cannot marry an older already-married woman. I don't even want to. So the fantasy will always be just that. A fantasy. But by continuing to see my therapist, there was a part of me that was hanging on to that hope, and how does that help me? It's almost biological. If I see her, I have these horrible feelings of longing. If I don't, I don't. Why see her? Why? Honestly.
I'm obviously trying to wrestle with this more than asking you to answer. But if you have answers, by all means, do share.
> >>> and since it causes suffering, the payoff seemed to indicate that termination would be best.
>
> I don't think your therapist is "causing" the suffering, rather examining the hurt in your life is painful and causing you to sort of re-visit that hurt and THAT is what's causing you to suffer. Not her. She is just the vehicle.
>
> And ignoring the pain, well, speaking for myself, that doesn't work for long either. It's deep within us and rears its ugly head whenever or wherever it wants to.
>
>
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:54:31
In reply to Re: One more thing ... » Annierose, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:50:08
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 21:04:51
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it » Dinah, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 20:41:33
The worst I got was even colder and more professional. It was from a pdoc, and was obviously a form letter. Except I think it said that I wasn't welcome to come back. Maybe not that obviously, but no door was held open.
I destroyed it pretty quickly. I had been embarrassed by my own behavior. I saw him while I was on Wellbutrin and I was not at all my normal self. My normal self can be needy and unreasonable, but on Wellbutrin I turned into the client from H*ll. My next pdoc put me on a mood stabilizer, then took me off Wellbutrin, and we got along fine.
Posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 21:08:58
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it » crushedout, posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 21:04:51
Yeah, that sounds rough. I have to keep reminding myself that she obviously can't write how any mushy feeling stuff because that would be unprofessional. Doesn't mean she has no feelings. Although even if she did (have no feelings), would it matter, since she can't express them to me so I'll never really know?Blah blah blah. Rhetorical questions. I guess what makes mine hard is that we spent three and a half years together and to me it was very intimate.
> The worst I got was even colder and more professional. It was from a pdoc, and was obviously a form letter. Except I think it said that I wasn't welcome to come back. Maybe not that obviously, but no door was held open.
>
> I destroyed it pretty quickly. I had been embarrassed by my own behavior. I saw him while I was on Wellbutrin and I was not at all my normal self. My normal self can be needy and unreasonable, but on Wellbutrin I turned into the client from H*ll. My next pdoc put me on a mood stabilizer, then took me off Wellbutrin, and we got along fine.
Posted by Dinah on April 3, 2008, at 21:16:00
In reply to Re: i feel sick with grief when i think about it, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 21:08:58
I think you can hold on to that. Nothing in her letter makes that an unfeasible view. Not all therapists send that letter, but I think it's something that's suggested they do. Just some follow the suggestion better than others. It does have to be professional because it is a professional matter.
That doesn't make the intimacy between you less real.
I understand what you mean about feeling ok until you got the letter. When my therapist was out of the country for six weeks, we had agreed that I could email him. But every time I heard from him, I was upset. While if I didn't hear from him I functioned ok. I finally emailed him and asked him not to contact me any more. A few weeks later, he emailed me to say he hadn't heard from me for a while and was I ok. (eye roll)
I'm not sure what that means. Because even tho I felt reasonably ok if I didn't hear from him, it didn't really mean that I was ok. I just felt ok.
Which doesn't mean anything to your situation. It could just be a tug from the past.
But in either case, it's perfectly understandable.
Posted by Happyflower on April 4, 2008, at 5:58:32
In reply to letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 18:54:40
It seems to me she is keeping the lines open in case you changed your mind and wanted to go back to her or that she can help you find another T. It seems like a good thing to me.
I think the hurt your are feeling is because of unresolved issues that could be worked out with her in the termination process or with another T.
Tare care crushed out, I know how much it hurts to leave therapy with someone you cared about even if it was for the best or maybe I am projecting here.
HF
Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:08:43
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by Happyflower on April 4, 2008, at 5:58:32
thanks hf. i agree she is letting me know that the lines are open. it hurts because whenever you lose someone it hurts. and getting a letter like that is a painful reminder that (a) she exists and (b) she is only my ex-T and doesn't really care about me as a "regular" person might.perhaps that is an "unresolved" issue, in that i always find it hurtful that i am not really *in* her life, that she of course loves her family more than she loves me. but i spent YEARS trying to resolve that issue and got NOWHERE.
so i have to disagree that i need to work it out with her or another T. i've had it with therapy. i'm done. it was NOT WORKING.
sorry for being so emphatic. i am just frustrated.
> It seems to me she is keeping the lines open in case you changed your mind and wanted to go back to her or that she can help you find another T. It seems like a good thing to me.
> I think the hurt your are feeling is because of unresolved issues that could be worked out with her in the termination process or with another T.
> Tare care crushed out, I know how much it hurts to leave therapy with someone you cared about even if it was for the best or maybe I am projecting here.
> HF
Posted by raisinb on April 4, 2008, at 11:43:02
In reply to letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast, posted by crushedout on April 3, 2008, at 18:54:40
Crushed, I'm sorry :( I guess it's difficult to get through such a big loss without *some* grief and sadness. So you're normal. But it sounds tough.
When one of my relationships ends, I always feel better if I am in control of the rejection. That way *I'm* the one rejecting, rather than being reject-able, so at least I feel on top of the situation. Her letter may have felt like her rejecting you, so the loss becomes compounded with feeling bad about yourself.
Talk therapy isn't for everybody. In fact, I often wonder if it's for me, because it exacerbates my tendency to analyze, analyze, analyze, and never *do* anything to create change (the Hamlet syndrome).
You want your T and you can't have her. If she can't take you any farther than realizing that, maybe you're right that this therapy wasn't as helpful as it could have been? (I don't know, maybe you did learn some things about yourself from that? I haven't been in your therapy, so I don't know). But the idea is that you learn from these painful feelings--and not just to accept the feelings.
Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:47:15
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast » crushedout, posted by raisinb on April 4, 2008, at 11:43:02
thanks, raisinb. i feel like you really heard me. :)it's a tough thing to figure out. i'm not *positive* i did the right thing. mostly it has felt right, but of course i think i will never know for sure.
how do you learn from the painful feelings, though? what is there to learn? other than that life is painful and some things, no matter how hard, cannot be changed. :(
> Crushed, I'm sorry :( I guess it's difficult to get through such a big loss without *some* grief and sadness. So you're normal. But it sounds tough.
>
> When one of my relationships ends, I always feel better if I am in control of the rejection. That way *I'm* the one rejecting, rather than being reject-able, so at least I feel on top of the situation. Her letter may have felt like her rejecting you, so the loss becomes compounded with feeling bad about yourself.
>
> Talk therapy isn't for everybody. In fact, I often wonder if it's for me, because it exacerbates my tendency to analyze, analyze, analyze, and never *do* anything to create change (the Hamlet syndrome).
>
> You want your T and you can't have her. If she can't take you any farther than realizing that, maybe you're right that this therapy wasn't as helpful as it could have been? (I don't know, maybe you did learn some things about yourself from that? I haven't been in your therapy, so I don't know). But the idea is that you learn from these painful feelings--and not just to accept the feelings.
Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:50:12
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast » raisinb, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:47:15
i totally think i have the hamlet syndrome, too, which is another reason why i quit. i constantly analyze and intellectualize and theorize about my psyche. i don't think it gets me anywhere. in fact, it feels like i've been wallowing and even malingering in therapy (i told my t this in the last session--she seemed surprised). it feels like it keeps me stuck in the problem.i just want to feel like i can stand on my own two feet and i also want to start working on the solution. which so far i have been unable to do within the context of talk therapy.
it's possible cog behavioral or some other type of treatment would be much more helpful to me.
Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:50:45
In reply to p.s. » crushedout, posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:50:12
Posted by crushedout on April 4, 2008, at 11:52:53
In reply to Re: letter from T hurts, trying to move on fast » crushedout, posted by raisinb on April 4, 2008, at 11:43:02
your theory about the letter feeling like a rejection is brilliant. i felt good because i had all the control before. this letter felt like a stab in the heart, like her letting me know she cares less than i do or something.you're absolutely right: it felt like a rejection.
maybe seeing that will help me to move on now. i hope.....
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