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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:15:11
I saw my therapist today.
I have this thing I hold myself to.. its "dont hope". Pessimistic, huh? But it's better because then I dont get hurt. Every time I let myself start hoping for something and believing in something, I end up regretting it.
SO, Ginny (my T, for those who dont know) cant see me twice a week anymore! And what better time to throw that at me than 5 minutes before the end of the session? She said.. "you look sad" after. No kidding, really? How'd you think I'd react?
I left the session and called a friend and cried my entire way from her office to my office, and for awhile in a nearby parking lot before I went in to work. Then I gathered my handy little therapist scheduler book and went in, splashed some water on my face, and played therapist for a few hours. Hahh!
A few months back, when I started with her (around the end of Oct) I almost thought I wasnt going to be able to see her for scheduling reasons. She wanted me to be seen twice a week, but wasnt sure she could promise me that, so she kept seeing me while I saw met other Ts, just for a transition. Then in the midst of trying to find someone, I got admitted to the hospital. When I got out, she said she'd thought about it and would "just make it work" with seeing me twice a week. I'd just gotten past a big abandonment by an old T (the Anne thing) and had been shifted around quite a lot, and she said she felt (and I agreed) like I really just needed something stable, so she'd make it work if I wanted to see her. So I agreed. Had I known this would happen four months later, I would have never stayed with her!! Back then the idea of switching wasnt so hard because I didnt really know her well anyway. But now, even though I know I havent lost her completely, I really need the twice a week and it feels like a HUGE loss. I feel like I was misled and it hurts.
The reason is because the agency has so many new referrals theyve decided to make a new rule and only allow once a week for everyone. Ginny is the director so it's all her decision, but she said it's just not fair for her to make exceptions. I see her point and I agree. But it still HURTS. This just isnt fair. I signed on and agreed to try to trust her with the agreement that she'd make this work, NOT change the rules right when I finally am starting to feel safe.
I'm fairly sure I'm going to cancel my Thurs appt. I have another appt scheduled for Tues anyway. We have twice a weeks for the next 3 weeks.. time to get used to it I guess.. but I dont want to see her. I need to take some time and get some emotional distance from her. Going in and talking about how I feel is only going to make it worse because there's nothing that can be done.. I just have to process it on my own. I told her she should have let me quit last week when I tried (send her that email and she basically said no, youre not quitting). She didnt say much to that but said that quitting is an option and she can help me find somewhere else if I want.
NO F-ING WAY am I starting over anywhere else.
Once a week is just not enough right now. Heck, twice a week isnt enough, but I was making do. But once a week is just enough to remind me that she's there and make me wish for it, but not enough to really solve anything. I think I'd rather not go at all than go once a week really, odd as that sounds. She said that if there were ever weeks where I was really having a hard time, we could do twice occasionally... but what is this? I feel worse the last few weeks than I did even before I got admitted to the psych unit in Oct. This is crisis if I've ever seen it.
I'm just really hurt. I know it's not her fault I guess... but I feel abandoned. In a way, it IS her fault. She gets to make the choices about what does and doesnt happen in the agency. I feel angry that she sprung it on me on the last 5 minutes, and at a time where I'm finally starting to feel safe there and am having such a hard time AND have this huge stress of a brand new job and therefore need her so badly.
And I know I'm being ridiculous and overreacting and most people only go once a week and get a grip amanda. I know. But it doesnt matter. This just isnt fair and I NEED her.
Note to self... THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT TO BE TRUSTED!! How do I keep forgetting that?
Please no one tell me it isnt that bad. I FEELS "that bad".
Posted by widget on February 27, 2007, at 17:39:15
In reply to hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:15:11
oh, that is terrible. I am so, so sorry. I just hate those "rules" which are set in concrete to never be broken. No wonder you are so upset; I cannot imagine. My only advice is to tell all of this to your therapist. Frankly, given the history here, maybe she should reconsider her rigid rule following and BE FAIR to you!! Warmest thoughts, widget
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:44:11
In reply to Re: hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by widget on February 27, 2007, at 17:39:15
Thanks widget for replying.. yes, its so hard. And it feels so unfair. I told her today I was upset but since it was the last 5 min, there wasnt really time to talk about it. And thats exactly how I feel... given my history, and our history the last four months, it just ISNT FAIR. But who says this is supposed to be fair? It's business, not a friendship. Stupid me for forgetting that.
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:47:19
In reply to hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:15:11
I left her a voicemail and cancelled. Just said that I have to cancel because I need to get some distance and that as she knows, I'm not happy with what she sprung on me right as I was leaving.. and I know she'll probably write me down in her book of doom (those were my words, haha) as being manipulative, but and I just cant do it on Thurs. I cant. So I'll see her next Tuesday. And that was it.
Oh well. I want to go and have her comfort me, but it wont be comforting if I go. Because the rule isnt going away. It'll just hurt worse. Now at least I have some time to remember what it feels like to hold it together by myself. It's a skill I've gotten less good at recently and I dont like that.
Posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2007, at 17:48:37
In reply to hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:15:11
It does feel bad. I had the same thing happen to me, and though I understood the situation, it still felt lousy. When I asked to increase to twice a week, my T agreed that it could be quite helpful, though he cautioned that he might not always have the time in his schedule down the road to do it. But at the time, and for several months it worked out well.
When he told me that the center had gotten much busier, which was not unexpected given that a new semester had just started, he said we had to go back to once a week. He made sure to tell me that it was not a clinical decision, or a personal (about me) one, but an administrative one. I understood, but I was still taken aback, scared, and upset. And I felt rejected. It's confusing to hold both those views--"I understand" and "It's not fair, this sucks!" at the same time. The "I understand" side tends to judge the "It's not fair" side. I can be my own worst enemy in that respect.
So at any rate, I'm sorry this happened to you. It sucks. If it helps at all, my therapy has continued to be helpful for me, even at once a week or sometimes even less lately. But the transition was a little odd and took a few sessions to figure out.
((((wishingstar))))
namaste
gg
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2007, at 18:05:21
In reply to hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:15:11
That's rotten. I think they should have tried their best to grandfather in current clients. :(
I haven't been in that exact situation, but I have been in the situation where circumstances forced me into a once a week session. It was very hard for me to hold on to his image from session to session, so we tried to incorporate other ways to increase the connection from one session to another. We did a midweek short call for a while, although that didn't really work out. But maybe the two of you could think of something that would work for you. Maybe you could get homework each week to build on that week's session. Or my therapist recorded a relaxation visualization for me. I can't say that I use it that often, but if I need to hear his voice, I do have that.
Can you think of anything that would help you keep continuity?
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 18:12:26
In reply to Re: hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by gardenergirl on February 27, 2007, at 17:48:37
Thanks gardengirl. I do know what you mean. It's administrative, not personal, and I know that. This agency is a BUSINESS and they have to act out of that fact.
Back when I first started seeing her, she said she might be able to see my twice a week but she couldnt promise it all the time. I appreciated knowing that and was going to move on to somewhere that felt more stable. But then she said that YES, she'd see me twice a week, she'd make it work. Actually the second week of every month has only been once a week, but I knew that was always coming and it was fine. But I had no idea this could happen. I didnt realize it was even on their radar.
I've always done once a week in the past so I do sort of know how that feels. Right now, I think none is preferable. I know that seems illogical and dumb, but it is. It's easier and it feels better.
thanks..
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 18:17:28
In reply to Re: hard session.. bad news.. (long), posted by Dinah on February 27, 2007, at 18:05:21
I agree dinah... there may be some clients who are there twice a week and not in such a hard place anymore, and maybe can be fine with less, or handle it well anyway. But not me. I've never felt this bad in all my history of depression I dont think and there is just no worse time for this to happen. It's not fair to build trust and then rip half the support away when I finally decide to rely on it.
The last three weeks (I think?) I've only been once a week because of my work schedule. The training at the new job made it difficult. I didnt like it one bit.. and really slid downhill quite a bit. I know it might seem like they were unrelated (not seeing her and feeling worse) but I dont think they were. I SIed more in the last 2 weeks than I have in the last 2 years probably (obviously I dont do it often anymore). Of course that isnt her fault.. I'm the one who had to change the schedule anyway. But it was a response to it, I believe.
I guess when I go back on Tues I'll maybe talk to her about some of the suggestions you gave.. midweek calls, homework, etc. Right now my inclination is to just pull away completely and cut off the entire connection to keep myself safe, but that may change in a few days. I will think about that. Right now I just want her gone so I can forget about this and forget about needing her.
Posted by Poet on February 27, 2007, at 19:04:10
In reply to cancelled thursday, posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 17:47:19
Hi Wishingstar,
I don't blame you for canceling or feeling bad about not being able to see Ginny as often as you need to. I wouldn't want to start over with someone new either. You're between the rock and the hard place, and it is never a good place to be. I'm sorry you're there and that Ginny can't come through for you. One light cyber slap to Ginny as it's more administrative than personal. What, the heck, one giant slap to Anne just because she deserves it, as her conduct with you was personal, and I feel like slapping someone, today.
(((((Wishingstar))))))
Poet
Posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 20:51:01
In reply to Re: cancelled thursday » wishingstar, posted by Poet on February 27, 2007, at 19:04:10
The police showed up at my door!
kdgjdkgjldftisk tisk TISK to a friend who shall remain nameless to protect the.. hm.. not-so-innocent.
I smiled and said no no, I'm okay. They left. Thank goodness.
Part of me wishes I;d gone with them. If it wasnt for this new job, I would have. But I cant miss days of work when this job is so, so new.
I just want to feel better.
I left another message for ginny. I said... ginny, <namesless friend> asked me to call you and i really dont want to talk, but im doing it anyway... and told her what happened tonight..
Part of me wants her to just FIX IT.. tell me its going to be okay and hug me and hold on to me and say its okay. Of course that wont happen. But part of me says NO WAY. I can NOT rely on you. And a small part of me says if im maniulative enough, maybe shell change her mind and let me stay on schedule. Mean huh? Thats terrible. It's NOT why I called her or why I'm freaking out... its NOT on purpose. But I'm hoping still. I hate that. Thats terrible of me. What makes me think Im so special?
Im not sure whether to laugh or cry or freak out or what to do right now. I've gone over the deep edge... deep edge? deep end? deep something.
I see my pdoc tomorrow.
Tomorrow I'll also be a therapist. Thats the funniest joke I;ve ever heard. I hope the therapist who I work with who lives across the parking lot from me didnt see the cop cars.. she knows which apt is mine and i DONT want to be asked about it. How great would that be?
You all can just refer to me as "the girl who has LOST IT" from now on, if you prefer.
Now what? Too much. How do I get throguh this? It's all just too much. Too hard.
Posted by sunnydays on February 27, 2007, at 20:57:04
In reply to haha oh my god, posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 20:51:01
I wish I knew how to get through this, wishingstar, I wish I knew. Apparently if you just keep breathing oxygen in and out of your lungs, and eating food, and drinking water, and maintaining the appearance of a somewhat human existence, time magically erases the bad things and you feel better again. Apparently. I'm feeling anxious and freaked out and sad tonight, so no better advice than that. But I guess it's something. I decide tonight that my life is like a snowglobe. I'm horribly shaken up right now, and it snows all the time (literally, almost every day). :) Are you a snowglobe too? I've decided I want to be one of the really pretty ones that lights up and is shimmery and plays music. Not one of the tacky plastic ones they sell in gift shops. What kind do you want to be?
sunnydays
Posted by Dinah on February 27, 2007, at 21:48:12
In reply to haha oh my god, posted by wishingstar on February 27, 2007, at 20:51:01
Posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 12:18:38
In reply to (((wishingstar))) (nm) » wishingstar, posted by Dinah on February 27, 2007, at 21:48:12
Thank you everyone for your kind responses.. and thank you to the people in chat last night for talking to me. The entire night is sort of a blur now, even the part where I thought I'd "gotten it together", so I'm not real sure how I presented myself or anything like that. I'm sorry if I said anything wacky.
I woke up and felt okay this morning. Actually had an hour or 2 of "I dont need Ginny, I can get a new T, it'll be fine".. not sure if that was healthy coping or the steel walls I built overnight.. probably the latter.
I just got home from work about 30 min ago. Short day. Starting to feel really bad again. Not dangerous-bad like last night, but just really, really hurting. Having trouble functioning. Havent eaten really all day.. nothing appeals to me right now.
Ginny called and left a message while I was at work and said she wasnt available to call later, during the times I'd be available. But she said she was curious what happened last night... reminded me of our conversation in chat list night Dinah about them having no idea what can set off a breakdown. But she said she wants me to tell my pdoc (I have an appt today at 3:40), which I will. And she said shes leaving my appt open tomorrow because it sounds like I need to talk about "what happened last night". I'm still leaning towards not going. If I decide not to, I dont know if I should call and say so, but I probably wont since my first message did say I wasnt coming. I just feel too vulnerable right now and dont have the emotional energy to deal with this situation. Anything more than "it'll be ok, it'll be ok" is just too much. I cant stand to be pushed or told (even gently) that this is over the top and I need to stop. I wouldnt be able to handle it. Maybe thats dumb, but I think it's good to know yourself and what you can and cant handle at times.
I got another new client today at work. Went to her home.. it's a 14-year old girl.. and she was wearing a tank top with self-inflicted cuts all up her arm. Hey, I needed an extra trigger today! I felt myself comparing hers to mine in my mind. Even so, I'm excited for the case.. I think I have a shot at reaching this girl. We'll see.
And that's that.
Posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 13:45:35
In reply to update, posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 12:18:38
Hi Wishingstar,
Hope things go good with your pdoc. I think that you will show your new client the empathy and understanding she deserves. I think you definitely have a shot at reaching her.
I don't know what to say about whether or not to see Ginny tomorrow, so go with what you feel before the appointment time.
Poet
Posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 16:32:52
In reply to Re: update » wishingstar, posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 13:45:35
Thanks poet.
Saw my pdoc. He wanted to try paxil, but I've already been on ever single other SSRI. I told him I had concerns that if none of the others touched it, why would paxil? Thankfully, he listened to me. He gave me a persciption for desipramine, one of the tricyclic anti-depressants. He also told me to stop taking the adderall, as it doesnt seem to be making one bit of difference for me anymore. I'll start it probably Fri night.. dont want to take it when I have to be at work in the morning since I tend to get pretty sick off new drugs.
No decision on Ginny yet. I'll probably do what you say Poet and just wait and see how I feel at the time. I'll be in a meeting I was going to have to leave early, so in a way it'd benefit me to just not go. But I told my boss I'd be leaving early, so it can go either way. My appt is at 3... I'll let you all know what I decide tomorrow.
Posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 16:35:42
In reply to pdoc » Poet, posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 16:32:52
Forgot to mention one thing. He asked how therapy is going (hah!) and I said it's probably ending. He wants me to consider replacing it with DBT over at this local agency. I told him I'd think about it. He;s going to make some calls and look into it for me. I'm really not sold on doing it right now.. I think DBT is very good but I just dont want ANY new treatment/drs/etc right now. But we'll see. It's a possibility.
I told him I wanted to go back to partial and he kind of ignored that. It isnt an option anyway though, financially. I told him about the cops last night and he seemed concerned.. but he never asked me if I'd be safe tonight or had a plan or if I needed to be in the hospital or anything. I thought that was odd. Oh well. I'd have said no (to the hospital) anyway.
Posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 21:04:34
In reply to pdoc... more, posted by wishingstar on February 28, 2007, at 16:35:42
Hi Wishingstar,
I'm glad to hear that your pdoc appointment went well. It's good you told him about the cops coming even if he did get a little worried. Expdoc always asked me if I had a plan or could keep myself safe. Which I do and I can. It was a standard question for him, which made sense, since the first time I saw him I was suicidal.
I haven't done DBT, but I know other posters seem to like it. Though I don't know if I would want to try therapy again if I had gone through what you have with therapists. Though thinking about it can't hurt.
Good luck with whatever you decide about seeing Ginny and I hope the new med works right away.
Poet
Posted by Iwillsurvive on March 1, 2007, at 9:33:14
In reply to Re: pdoc... more » wishingstar, posted by Poet on February 28, 2007, at 21:04:34
Sorry WS.
I been following thread.
I need to re read but got no time right now.
Can you give Ginny a chance?
Can you tell her you just need support and not alot of T stuff, just support?
Mebbe she could help you create some good visualizations to lean on?
You've done SO well to hang onto this job.
Hate to see you run from Ginny.
DBT ok, but lotsa work.
I think Ginny has potential really.
IMHO WS you got alot of conflicting 'stuff' going on in yoiur head.
It makes it hard doesn't it?
But it will ease up.
Ginny can be your rock.
Cept sometimes the tides in, so you can't hold on, but the tide goes out again and you can rest and hang on for awhile again.
Gonne be OK Wishy.
You can do this.
I susupect you alot stronger than you think!
Give yourself a break and some credit.
Take care
Posted by wishingstar on March 1, 2007, at 18:23:53
In reply to Re: pdoc... more » Poet, posted by Iwillsurvive on March 1, 2007, at 9:33:14
I did go see Ginny this afternoon.
It didnt help at all, but I guess it didnt really hurt that much either. I guess I was hoping she'd change her mind when she was how hurt I was, but that didnt happen. I cut her off whenever she tried to get too emotional with me.. but I told her why I was mad, that I was hurt, that I dont trust her anymore, etc. She asked if I wanted to know about other options (places to get therapy) and I told her no. She ended up telling me anyway. I just told her over and over that I dont care and I'm done. She said that she feels like I'm giving her an ultimatum and being sort of manipulative... I told her that I can see how she'd feel that way, but its honestly how I feel and unless I lie, I cant really help how she feels. She referred to all this as part of the borderline thing.. not so validating, but ok. She suggested that maybe I should see someone else anyway, since I'm actually worse and not better now compared to months ago.. but she doesnt get it. It's only been 4 months.. and I really do rely on her. I know I'd be worse without her. These last 2 days is an exmaple of that.
I asked her why she waited until the last five minutes to tell me. She said she didnt think I'd react this strongly (I'm surprised she didnt suspect I would..) and she didnt want to bring it up earlier in the session because she didnt want to end up devoting the entire session to it. Great Ginny, thanks. Now we'll just devote SEVERAL instead. If I keep showing up.
I also told her I was mad because the only reason I stayed with her 4 months ago was because she said she'd make it work. And I would have gone somewhere else if I knew this would happen. She defended herself by saying that she'd told me there may be times when she couldnt.. and shes right, she did say that. She said things might come up from time to time, and I'm ok with that, if its not every week. But she never suggested it could happen permanently.
I told her how my pdoc gave me a 150 pills of this med that he said is toxic in overdose after I told him I was suicidal. She's calling him to tell him "her concerns with that". Hah. Shes also calling Laurie. I'm not totally sure why. Probably because shes hoping someone else will knock some sense into me, but whatever. I told her it was ok. I also called Laurie (at her suggestion) to see if shed see me once or twice for someone to talk to. I really miss Laurie. She feels safe to me still. I've never cried with her before, but right now I just feel like going to see her and just sobbing through a session. I need that. I hope she calls me back soon.
I dont know about ginny. She tried to get me to promise I'd be safe, at least until saturday, and I never did. She let me go anyway though. Shes going to call on Sat to check in because I told her I wouldnt call her, even if I needed her. Whatever. I kept my appts for next week but I told her I may or may not actually show up. I guess overall I felt like she did as well as she could with me today, short of doing what I wanted her to do. I still think shes being really unfair.
Then I got to the pharmacy to get my meds.. dropped of the rx last night.. but they still hadnt filled it. So I waited the 20 min while they did it. Went back up to check, and they said oh, we only have 15 pills. You can have those. Is that ok? Um, my rx was for 150! Couldnt they have told me that before I came to the store twice and waited 20 min? Could anything else go wrong?
Maybe I should be in the hospital. But what good would that do? None.
Hurting very very bad. Not very safe. Feeling very, very desperate.
thanks for reading.
Posted by TherapyGirl on March 1, 2007, at 20:23:09
In reply to update.. i went to the appt, posted by wishingstar on March 1, 2007, at 18:23:53
WS, I'm so sorry I've been so out of the loop the last few weeks. There's no excuse for it except that I'm still having trouble adjusting to my new schedule.
But enough about me -- I want you to know that you are in my thoughts even when I'm not here. I'm so proud of you for getting a new job. I know it doesn't feel like it right now, but I can see that you have made some positive strides toward a non-depressed life.
I understand completely how you feel about Ginny's new policy. I'd be hurt, too. But I hope you will go to your sessions next week and see if you can work through some of this. I know the hardest work I've done in therapy has been at some of these same junctures with my T. So I hope you'll try to get what you can out of a bad situation.
(((((WishingStar))))
Posted by wishingstar on March 7, 2007, at 21:11:38
In reply to Re: update.. i went to the appt » wishingstar, posted by TherapyGirl on March 1, 2007, at 20:23:09
No need to apologize for not being around! You dont need an excuse even. It's okay. :) I hope the new job is still going well.. adjusting to having a work schedule has been odd for me too.
I appreciate you saying that youve been thinking of me. I feel so alone in some ways and hearing that really does help.
I did go see Ginny Tues.. we spent most of the session talking about nothing of any real relevance. I'll go again tomorrow at 11. Who knows what'll happen. I guess I'll post an update if its anything spectacular, or if youre interested, but I doubt it'll be much. I've pushed her away so hard that there isnt room for much emotion in the sessions right now.
Glad youre still around! :)
This is the end of the thread.
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