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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
So, for a couple weeks now, my T has been trying to work in a line here and there about whether something... [relates to/affects/involves/] "our goals in therapy".
I always managed to cut her off somehow. On Thursday, she tried to get it in, at the last minute. I had my hat and gloves on and everything, but she hadn't even stood up and was still very much in T-mode. even though it was 3 minutes til the hour ended.
"Our goals in therapy are two-fold. One is to help you feel more present in your life, so that you can feel more at ease with yourself and with your future. The other is to help support you while you write your dissertation, so that you can be at long last reunited with your husband".
Yikes. Now I have a goal. Therapy seemed less threatening somehow when it was just a series of nebulous conversations where she would remind me of stuff that I've reported before and help me make connections between past events and present behavioral (mal) adaptions.
Oh well.
The 2nd reason why I might not be so good at therapy is because I totally shied away from an indepth discussion of my dream. I had e-mailed it to her in gruesome detail, and yet, I barely felt confident to mention it. The only part I was able to talk about was how my mom was present at my first pelvic exam and how traumatic the whole thing was. And then we talked more about how my mom handled other episodes in which her daughter was emotionally vulnerable. (hint- there was some basic lacking of compassion, IMO). Then we talked about my dad and how his wacko ideas about his genius children got me into special education and out of class, and how I was never socialized and always got in trouble with my teachers for never doing any assignments. (hmm no wonder why the diss is so hard!).
The part that I *couldn't* talk about at ALL was the role that my T played in my dream. I'm gonna try to hard to bring that up. I guess it's important to talk about these things. It's kind of on my mind (obviously, since it's spilling out into my dreams, in a most obvious and literal manner).
My dream consisted of my T being present at an ObGyn exam, but she didn't examine me, we just had our usual chat. At the end, though, I felt myself collapse on the floor, because I remembered how traumatic my ObGyn experiences were, and I felt like If my T HAD BEEN THERE, I would have been allright. and then I was huddled collapsed on the floor, and I felt something nice and silky- maybe a robe or a cover, and she hugged me deeply, and it felt protective and nurturing.
There. I've told the whole WWW. I've even written it to her. Why can't I SAY it to her. T- you were protecting me with your embrace in my dream. Thank you for being there.
She did give me a referral to an Ob-Gyn, who is supposed to be very kind and caring. She was going to refer me to Oprah's Ob-Gyn, but said that she was awfully busy these days (no joke).
deep breath. Llurpsie needs to get her first checkup in 8 years. I don't want a lecture on how negligent I've been. My shame is too great already.
:(
Why can't I say the hard stuff? Only write it?
Posted by ElaineM on February 9, 2007, at 21:35:59
In reply to Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
>>>>>Yikes. Now I have a goal. Therapy seemed less threatening somehow when it was just a series of nebulous conversations...
Does having a goal seem any less threatening to remember that there's not a set-in-stone timeline by which it has to be reached? Or does visualizing a goal suggest *expectations* or something - like, if there's a mission of sorts, the mission may have to be done perfectly?
Or does it not bother anymore once she got it out there.>>>>>>...and I felt something nice and silky- maybe a robe or a cover, and she hugged me deeply, and it felt protective and nurturing.
LL, this part is so dear. :')
>>>>>Why can't I SAY it to her. T- you were protecting me with your embrace in my dream. Thank you for being there.
I think it was pretty great how much you were able to say. Do you think not being able to say it in your session has to do with need, or no? Like if you say it to her, it could be like voicing your need or wish for protection like that, then, but also now? For me, I may have felt embarassed cause I never used to hope for, or talk about, or share sensitive, nurturing moments with my mom. And saying it to my T would feel like saying it to my mom, a little -- at least in my head. I used to feel humiliated even crying infront of my mother. I don't know. Trying to understand. Ignore me if I say dumb stuff.
I still think you're plently good enough at therapy LL. ANd good for you for initiating an appointment. I know that the longer you put something off [for me, finally showing my face at the dentist] the harder and harder it gets to make it a possibility. Apprehension and fear (and emabarassment, for me at least) just grows bigger each year. So, no lectures here....thumbs up. And safe hugs. {{{Lurp}}}
blove, El
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 21:45:34
In reply to Re: Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Tri » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by ElaineM on February 9, 2007, at 21:35:59
> >>>>>Yikes. Now I have a goal. Therapy seemed less threatening somehow when it was just a series of nebulous conversations...
>
> Does having a goal seem any less threatening to remember that there's not a set-in-stone timeline by which it has to be reached? Or does visualizing a goal suggest *expectations* or something - like, if there's a mission of sorts, the mission may have to be done perfectly?
> Or does it not bother anymore once she got it out there.
>
> >>>>>>...and I felt something nice and silky- maybe a robe or a cover, and she hugged me deeply, and it felt protective and nurturing.
>
> LL, this part is so dear. :')
>
> >>>>>Why can't I SAY it to her. T- you were protecting me with your embrace in my dream. Thank you for being there.
>
> I think it was pretty great how much you were able to say. Do you think not being able to say it in your session has to do with need, or no? Like if you say it to her, it could be like voicing your need or wish for protection like that, then, but also now? For me, I may have felt embarassed cause I never used to hope for, or talk about, or share sensitive, nurturing moments with my mom. And saying it to my T would feel like saying it to my mom, a little -- at least in my head. I used to feel humiliated even crying infront of my mother. I don't know. Trying to understand. Ignore me if I say dumb stuff.not dumb stuff at all- that's EXACTLY how I feel. embarassed. I didn't go to my mom for comfort. I didn't go to my mom unless it was emergency. Humiliated. sure. 'cause she wasn't very sensitive to those things. And crying in front of dad. hmmph. That. That's why I would get hit. It wasn't because I was bad, it was because my crying brought out his rage. Crying is a very very last ditch effort to be reserved for emergencies, when the threat of violence is no worse than the alternative (which is getting no care).
yeah, so I was 14 and had abcess in my two molars. and I let it go for 4 weeks. sucked ice chips. malaise. one day mom noticed my lumpy cheek and asked if I had mumps. I said. toothache. she bundled me up to go to the dentist. dropped me off for a 2 hour root canal and treated me like any stupid uncaring nurse would, not like my mom. picked me up. got my Rx filled and sent me to bed with orders. no hug. nothing about how scared I must have been to have this huge puffy throbbing abcess and trying to treat it on my own as a 14 year old. Oh goody. looks like me and T have more to talk about.
>
> I still think you're plently good enough at therapy LL. ANd good for you for initiating an appointment. I know that the longer you put something off [for me, finally showing my face at the dentist] the harder and harder it gets to make it a possibility. Apprehension and fear (and emabarassment, for me at least) just grows bigger deach year. So, no lectures here....thumbs up. Adnd safe hugs. {{{Lurp}}}
> blove, El
>I know Ob's name and location. now I need to see if my insurance will cover it.
Posted by peddidle on February 9, 2007, at 21:59:15
In reply to Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
> Yikes. Now I have a goal. Therapy seemed less threatening somehow when it was just a series of nebulous conversations where she would remind me of stuff that I've reported before and help me make connections between past events and present behavioral (mal) adaptions.
**I completely understand. I hate when my T brings up the "goals of therapy" too. I don't think it means you're "bad" at therapy. Maybe it just means you're afraid of actually dealing with the serious stuff. Believe me, I love having conversations with my T about celebrity gossip and other nonsense, but I shutdown as soon as she steers the conversations towards important matters.
>My dream consisted of my T being present at an ObGyn exam, but she didn't examine me, we just had our usual chat. At the end, though, I felt myself collapse on the floor, because I remembered how traumatic my ObGyn experiences were, and I felt like If my T HAD BEEN THERE, I would have been allright. and then I was huddled collapsed on the floor, and I felt something nice and silky- maybe a robe or a cover, and she hugged me deeply, and it felt protective and nurturing.
**I had a dream about my T recently where she was putting braces on me. I'm *SURE* that's symbolic. I would love to tell her. Who am I kidding, I'm not going to tell her.
I think it's great that you are able to tell your T about your dreams at all. It's also great that she made you feel so protected, even if it was only in a dream.
> There. I've told the whole WWW. I've even written it to her. Why can't I SAY it to her. T- you were protecting me with your embrace in my dream. Thank you for being there.**It's OK if you can't say it to her. If you've written it to her, and she's read it, she knows. You're moving in the right direction. I'm sure at some point you wouldn't have even imagined writing something like that to her, and now you've done it. Writing is a step in the right direction, you'll be able to say it eventually.
By the way, this is all very "do as I say, not as I do." :)
> Why can't I say the hard stuff? Only write it?
**I'm hardly the best one to help you with this, because I can't even write things down for my T to read. I'm working on it though. Maybe one day we'll both get there. :)
(Wow, that was abnormally optimistic of me)
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 22:21:39
In reply to Re: Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by peddidle on February 9, 2007, at 21:59:15
Posted by Daisym on February 11, 2007, at 0:27:57
In reply to Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
I'm having a huge deje vue reaction to your post -- I bet if I searched hard enough I could find a post I'd written early on in my therapy that was eerily similar. The idea of having goals scared me, both because I didn't want to think about being done with therapy and because I didn't want to "need" therapy to help me reach those goals. It didn't make a lot of sense to me then, and it still sort of doesn't.
The other thing that struck me was your question about why can't you say it when you can write it? The way our brains work, it makes a lot of sense that you can take things that are emotionally laden and write them out. The act of writing (or typing) is a way of organizing and making sense out of things. The emotions have to fight with the rules of spelling and grammar, so you are more contained and less flooded. Talking provides a lot less structure, until you are actually in the flow of it. Like when you get up to give a speech and it is hard to get started, but once you do, things click in and you can just run with it. I think the content of what you are saying takes over, instead of the worry about the other person's reaction.
And saying things out loud is so, so hard. It makes things real in a way nothing else does. And giving yourself permission to speak is sometimes also permission to feel. And boy is that scary. Because, at least for me, what I intend to say sometimes isn't what I actually say. When I write, I can edit, I can change and I can censor. When I talk, once it is out there, it is out there. Admitting you need your therapist is a huge thing. It is scary but it feels good to do it. Given everything you've said about her, I'm sure she will handle your feelings carefully. I think it is lovely that you feel safe with her and of course you wanted to be protected when you were younger.
No one is really good at therapy all the time. We all struggle with forcing ourselves to say stuff, to admit things and to reveal our deepest pain. It is OK to work up to things, to go back to them and to avoid things for awhile. Whatever needs to come up and out will - eventually.
You are doing just fine -- better than fine actually. Be gentle and patient with yourself.
Posted by Dinah on February 11, 2007, at 10:24:54
In reply to Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
Are you ok with the goals she listed?
I think I would have been a bit resistant to a therapist telling me what my therapy goals were. Did she present them as an idea for you to comment on and discuss to modification as needed, or as a done deal?
Are your goals the same as hers? Would you describe them differently, even if in very broad terms you agree? Are there any unspoken goals you have that you'd rather bury if asked to explicitly state them? Are there any goals you feel like you know are there, but that are too inchoate to reduce to a statement?
Did you feel like she was being less than compassionate to you in being so blunt? Or that she was setting an impossible assignment? As opposed to the two of you working together to decide what it is *you* wanted?
There are times when my goals for therapy and what my therapist thought my goals should be would have differed quite a bit. Sometimes I was right, and sometimes he was right. And they were'nt always expressly stated. But I doubt that I ever just accepted them as presented. At first I probably acted out my objections and later I learned to say "Hold on here a second. This is my therapy. Do you think maybe you should check with me?"
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 11, 2007, at 12:08:26
In reply to Re: Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Tri » Llurpsie_Noodle, posted by Dinah on February 11, 2007, at 10:24:54
> Are you ok with the goals she listed?
these are all good questions D, I will need to think about them and reply later. thanks for your post.
-L
>
> I think I would have been a bit resistant to a therapist telling me what my therapy goals were. Did she present them as an idea for you to comment on and discuss to modification as needed, or as a done deal?
>
> Are your goals the same as hers? Would you describe them differently, even if in very broad terms you agree? Are there any unspoken goals you have that you'd rather bury if asked to explicitly state them? Are there any goals you feel like you know are there, but that are too inchoate to reduce to a statement?
>
> Did you feel like she was being less than compassionate to you in being so blunt? Or that she was setting an impossible assignment? As opposed to the two of you working together to decide what it is *you* wanted?
>
> There are times when my goals for therapy and what my therapist thought my goals should be would have differed quite a bit. Sometimes I was right, and sometimes he was right. And they were'nt always expressly stated. But I doubt that I ever just accepted them as presented. At first I probably acted out my objections and later I learned to say "Hold on here a second. This is my therapy. Do you think maybe you should check with me?"
Posted by muffled on February 11, 2007, at 14:32:51
In reply to Maybe I'm not so good at therapy *assorted Trig*, posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on February 9, 2007, at 20:38:30
> So, for a couple weeks now, my T has been trying to work in a line here and there about whether something... [relates to/affects/involves/] "our goals in therapy".
ROFL. 'trying to work it in' eh, you a slippery sam?
>
> I always managed to cut her off somehow. On Thursday, she tried to get it in, at the last minute. I had my hat and gloves on and everything, but she hadn't even stood up and was still very much in T-mode. even though it was 3 minutes til the hour ended.Dontcha just hate that, ready to go, but T is NOT!
>
> "Our goals in therapy are two-fold. One is to help you feel more present in your life, so that you can feel more at ease with yourself and with your future. The other is to help support you while you write your dissertation, so that you can be at long last reunited with your husband".Well, kinda nebulous that first one? But then I a little dense.
>
> Yikes. Now I have a goal. Therapy seemed less threatening somehow when it was just a series of nebulous conversations where she would remind me of stuff that I've reported before and help me make connections between past events and present behavioral (mal) adaptions.Goals is why we goto T. We wanto accomplish SOMEthing....I feel it takes TOOOOO long though.
> Oh well
yeah, thats what I say alot.
> The 2nd reason why I might not be so good at therapy is because I totally shied away from an indepth discussion of my dream. I had e-mailed it to her in gruesome detail, and yet, I barely felt confident to mention it. The only part I was able to talk about was how my mom was present at my first pelvic exam and how traumatic the whole thing was. And then we talked more about how my mom handled other episodes in which her daughter was emotionally vulnerable. (hint- there was some basic lacking of compassion, IMO). Then we talked about my dad and how his wacko ideas about his genius children got me into special education and out of class, and how I was never socialized and always got in trouble with my teachers for never doing any assignments. (hmm no wonder why the diss is so hard!).Yeah, my ma, we'd come home from school (this is reported to me by sis, I sorta? remeber?), anyhow, we'd come home and wanto debrief after a hard day, and we'd be spilling our guts to our ma, and she'd just walk away...............
Yea, being genius IS a problem. There's more recognition of it in some school districts. We got one in our family, so far with ALOT of support he is OK, but does struggle ALOT.
For pelvic exam Ll , can you dissociate for that? VERY useful. And it is VERY fast too. Just the feeling the ovaries part I find hard, but I think its possible to skip that part and have ultrasound instead if its too triggering. My Dr. is very fast, and she drapes me, so there's nothing to see.
My ma never came to pelvic exam either. I initiated it myself cuz I had some probs. Mebbe 16 or so? I got stuff all fixed. Had to have anesthetic for a day surgery thing, got SO drunk night B4, was supposed to not eat or drink past 10 or so, I was till drinking at 2 am. Was still drunk when went under anesthetic, lol, but I survived.
>
> The part that I *couldn't* talk about at ALL was the role that my T played in my dream. I'm gonna try to hard to bring that up. I guess it's important to talk about these things. It's kind of on my mind (obviously, since it's spilling out into my dreams, in a most obvious and literal manner).yeah, kinda intimate isn't it :-(
>
> My dream consisted of my T being present at an ObGyn exam, but she didn't examine me, we just had our usual chat. At the end, though, I felt myself collapse on the floor, because I remembered how traumatic my ObGyn experiences were, and I felt like If my T HAD BEEN THERE, I would have been allright. and then I was huddled collapsed on the floor, and I felt something nice and silky- maybe a robe or a cover, and she hugged me deeply, and it felt protective and nurturing.thats SUCH a cool dream, but pretty attachish all right.
> There. I've told the whole WWW. I've even written it to her. Why can't I SAY it to her. T- you were protecting me with your embrace in my dream. Thank you for being there.Cuz its intimate, cuz you exposing youself to her hurting you...leaving youself emotionally wide open...
>
> She did give me a referral to an Ob-Gyn, who is supposed to be very kind and caring. She was going to refer me to Oprah's Ob-Gyn, but said that she was awfully busy these days (no joke).thats good you got good OBgyn.
> deep breath. Llurpsie needs to get her first checkup in 8 years. I don't want a lecture on how negligent I've been. My shame is too great already.
Yeah, I hadn't got a check until long after my surgery(mebbe 7 yrs) and I had TWO diff 'probs'. Gaaaack. I coulda not been able to have my sweet babies if I'd left it much longer :-(
> Why can't I say the hard stuff? Only write it?
Good question. I can't seem to say ANYthing.
Take care Ll, give yourdelf a break OK?
Muffled
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