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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 2:36:40
> Actually, that's not true. Sometimes it does hit up against me, as reality -- that's when I find myself thinking suicide is the best choice, though, so maybe denial ain't such a bad thing?
***Thats where I at.
My T says, you wanto kill self? I say 'I wouldn't do that to my irl kids'. So she say, 'what if you had no kids?', and i had to say,'I just don't know...'
Denial is good.
But my T wants me to explore emots...
I dunno if I can do that.
She says that I need to process them...
Cuz they keep comming back at me.
But I dunno...
I just dunno.
Thats when I start to thinking S. ideation.
FYI, I was never CSA. I just oversensitive and don't got memories, and don't do emots.
REALLY.
Weird eh? Talk about an oversensitive freak. I my own worst enemy.
Muffled
Posted by toojane on November 1, 2006, at 8:23:18
In reply to Exactly Racer, posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 2:36:40
> But my T wants me to explore emots...
> I dunno if I can do that.
> She says that I need to process them...
> Cuz they keep comming back at me.
> But I dunno...Hello Muffled. That T advice sounds familiar - process the memories, explore the emotions, feel the feelings because that's the only way they'll stop repeating. I also find myself doubtful and often panicky about doing it. I think I want a guarantee because it is so daunting and terrifying I don't want to go through all of that and then find nothing has changed.
I think I understand the theory behind it but I want to actually talk to a real person who has been traumatized and "worked through" all the memories and emotions and been freed. How did it work? Was it worth it? Did they wish they hadn't?
I think it's like asking someone who is suffering to stick their hand in fire, saying it's the only way they can get better. If you're that person in pain it seems insane to willingly put your fingers in the flames when all you want to do is run the other way.
Posted by Racer on November 1, 2006, at 12:24:20
In reply to Exactly Racer, posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 2:36:40
> >
> Denial is good.
> But my T wants me to explore emots...
> I dunno if I can do that.I know, though, Muffled. You *can* do that. I know.
Denial is like a friend who manipulates you, and persuades you to do things that end up hurting you, making you feel bad about yourself later. Denial is the friend who talks you into staying out late on a work night; convinces you to pay for tickets you can't afford -- and buy her one, too. Denial is not really your friend, only someone who makes you feel less lonely for a while. And in the end, Denial will abandon you, after alienating all your real friends, leaving you more lonely than ever.
There are a lot of things in my life I can't stand to think of. I can't stand to admit they happened, or that they can't be undone. I push them away with all my strength, and I Deny them. But Muffled? I know I need to make friends with what really happened. That's what's real, that's what will help me, in the end.
I hope you believe me, and that you can work with your T to make peace with the memories and the emotions.
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 13:51:15
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » muffled, posted by toojane on November 1, 2006, at 8:23:18
>I think I understand the theory behind it but I want to actually talk to a real person who has been traumatized and "worked through" all the memories and emotions and been freed. How did it work? Was it worth it? Did they wish they hadn't?
I think it's like asking someone who is suffering to stick their hand in fire, saying it's the only way they can get better. If you're that person in pain
it seems insane to willingly put your fingers in the flames when all you want to do is run the other way.
***YA. Thats a great analogy. And I never thot of that, but its true. I keep wondering, whats the point? It don't seem safe or rational....and mebbe its not so much sticking you hand in the fire as much as throwing your whole self in.....craziness.
Sigh.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 14:16:14
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » muffled, posted by Racer on November 1, 2006, at 12:24:20
> Denial is like a friend who manipulates you, and persuades you to do things that end up hurting you, making you feel bad about yourself later.
> There are a lot of things in my life I can't stand to think of. I can't stand to admit they happened, or that they can't be undone. I push them away with all my strength, and I Deny them. But Muffled? I know I need to make friends with what really happened. That's what's real, that's what will help me, in the end.
>
> I hope you believe me, and that you can work with your T to make peace with the memories and the emotions.***Ya thanks Racer. Yeah, denial, your right. Denial alsmost killed me with the drinking...
Sh*t.
Toojanes post was interesting. I think it makes sense to me. Why I get scared some. Cuz I guess I dunno about this 'processing' business.
Seems to me , if something stinks, you ought to bury it.
But I can't seem to bury it deep enough.
The smell keeps comming thru...
Ya, I got a good T. Real good T. I am very fortunate. I think lotsa times she has really struggled with whether she should be treating me, whether I too far beyond her training... but she knows how hard we worked on trust, she knows that there's not a whole lot avail. 'in the system' for me...
I hope your T comes thru for you too Racer.
Thanks,
Muffled
Posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2006, at 15:25:42
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » Racer, posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 14:16:14
Glad to see you're back, Muffy.
Processing our memories and emotions and thoughts... how could I do it without guidance? I know I'd go in ever smaller circles, winding in upon myself until I was chasing my tail.
Therapy is difficult to stick with. Even though I hardly ever talk about it here, it is the hardest job I've done. Just showing up, as she says, is the hardest part. Keep on showing up.
CS
Posted by muffled on November 1, 2006, at 21:22:45
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » muffled, posted by ClearSkies on November 1, 2006, at 15:25:42
Posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 0:54:19
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » muffled, posted by toojane on November 1, 2006, at 8:23:18
I guess I'm going to disagree. I think feeling the feelings is like taking your hand OUT of the fire.
When you have a burn, it hurts like hell at first - if you take the ice away that is numbing it, or pull it back from the heat that burned it in the first place. But keeping it out of the fire and not burning it more with ice, allows it to heal. It just hurts a whole lot in the mean time. But it isn't being re-injured if it is treated right.
Does that make sense?
I know it is hard. But the only way to the other side is through the dark tunnel. At least in my experience. I'm not saying you have to relive all the memories. I think though you have to allow yourself your feelings again. How else will you ever feel happy, or glad or peaceful?
Posted by toojane on November 2, 2006, at 8:04:49
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer, posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 0:54:19
Hi Daisy! I LOVE reading your posts. You seem so wise and insightful. I know you struggle tremendously with your own pain but there's something very noble about the way you do it.
> I guess I'm going to disagree. I think feeling the feelings is like taking your hand OUT of the fire.Yes. We are already burned, aren't we?
I guess I've been thinking that I've been burned already and I don't want to do it again -- but your perspective is I'm still on fire and feeling feelings puts the fire out?
> But keeping it out of the fire and not burning it more with ice, allows it to heal. It just hurts a whole lot in the mean time. But it isn't being re-injured if it is treated right.Does it heal? Really? Honestly truly really? Your post made me think they deliberately put some burn victims in comas because the pain's so great. I think some people create 'comas' for themselves. I suppose everyone has to wake up at some point.
> I know it is hard. But the only way to the other side is through the dark tunnel. At least in my experience.Do you feel like you are getting through the tunnel? Is your burn healing? Do you know someone who has healed and they are glad they went through all that pain to get to the other side?
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2006, at 9:23:43
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » Daisym, posted by toojane on November 2, 2006, at 8:04:49
If it's not affecting your life now, I can't see any reason to reopen old wounds.
But is it really not affecting your life now?
I'm not sure what working through means, exactly. I hope it means learning not to let it control your life at this point, letting go of any shame a person might feel about things in their past, and being able to live a full and complete life in the now.
I'm not sure that keeping something hidden is the way to healing, because for me at least secrecy gives the thing power. Like a monster in the closet.
I don't know that I believe in catharsis for the sake of catharsis. (Although sometimes repetition does desensitize.)
But there's no denying that if someone is still experiencing problems by what happened in the past, there are usually reasons for it, and reasons that can be addressed in the openness when secrets are revealed.
But if you aren't currently experiencing problems, I see no point in reopening something that is distressing just for the sake of it.
Posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 14:55:17
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer, posted by Dinah on November 2, 2006, at 9:23:43
I completely agree with Dinah -- there is not theraputic value in reopening old wounds that are not causing problems. I think we often think that therapy is going to be that "ah ha!" moment in which we sift through our past well enough that we find the defining moment where things went off course. So we search and search and search looking for the answer. And the search is painful and might not be that productive.
However, if you aren't doing as well as you would like in your life, looking into the past as a way to look at current patterns can be very helpful. Or to figure out why you are depressed. Or whatever.
Toojane has asked several times if anyone knows anyone who has work through their pain and come out on the otherside. I ask this question all the time. My therapist usually gently tells me that my stories will always be painful and upsetting, but the need to tell them will diminish, the triggers will be fewer and I will live in the present in a more satisfying way. So we aren't working to get rid of all the pain of the past, we are working to reduce the influence of the past on the present.And yes -- I think it is working. It took me three years of therapy to see that my relationship with my husband had crossed the line to being abusive, that I couldn't "fix" him, and that I needed to leave. It was a process of telling stories from the past, trying to believe that I wasn't all bad and I didn't deserve this treatment and clinging to my therapist in an infantile but hugely necessary way. He let me "borrow" his core-self for strength as we dismantled my defenses and looked for my true self.
It has been and continues to be a painful journey. I cried the other day that I just didn't want to remember anymore stuff. He said he knows I don't. But do I have a choice? And in my group, we talked about how long this takes and how many times we've been around the spiral, debreeded the wound or drained the infection. If there is a short cut, I sure haven't found it.
But I'm still looking...
Posted by muffled on November 2, 2006, at 17:28:41
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer, posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 14:55:17
Now THIS is cool,
>'So we aren't working to get rid of all the pain of the past, we are working to reduce the influence of the past on the present.'
Thanks Daisy.
Posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 22:37:09
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer » Daisym, posted by muffled on November 2, 2006, at 17:28:41
You are welcome Muffled. I'm glad you found something that helps you. I know you work very hard on all this stuff too.
Posted by toojane on November 5, 2006, at 1:32:34
In reply to Re: Exactly Racer, posted by Daisym on November 2, 2006, at 14:55:17
> It has been and continues to be a painful journey. I cried the other day that I just didn't want to remember anymore stuff. He said he knows I don't. But do I have a choice?
It is the seeming lack of choice that vexes me. I have very severe PTSD. While I find therapy terribly painful, the alternative (to simply live with the flashbacks and disabling symptoms) is equally unpleasant. Trapped between a rock and a hard place, I choose to do therapy because that choice offers hope. But still there is the dread that all is for naught and that hope is false.
This is the end of the thread.
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