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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by canadagirl on October 26, 2006, at 5:39:19
In reply to Re: please explain me and this **trigs ED, SI.. » canadagirl, posted by ElaineM on October 25, 2006, at 23:47:02
>>>This was just something I never ever expected. I've always been terrified of ever finding myself needing to contact places like that. <<<
It's a scary thing to do. But you did it. You somehow found the strength.
>>>I'm trying to last but I feel inside me that I'm just not gonna do it. I worry about not seeing Christmas. <<<
Don't give up Elaine; take one day at a time. One hour at a time if that's all you can do. Pain can make us feel like that.
>>I don't really even care about SI anymore. It's back normal<<
It must be very hard when you feel so awful. There have been in the past while had some days when you haven't SI although you've been on the edge of it. What made the difference then?
>>> emailed back to see if he would make me a plan to lose weight, <<<
!!!!! is all I have to say to that. :-)
Take very good care of yourself today.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 8:41:53
In reply to Re: please explain me and this **trigs ED, SI.. » ElaineM, posted by canadagirl on October 26, 2006, at 5:39:19
Oh Elaine,
Well, one of the reasons why you're not able to connect with your T the way that other people on the board seem to is because we are all different. The really good sessions with the right things being said- well, those are kind of rare, and special. Can't expect that to happen every week, that's why when they DO happen it's so amazing.The other reason why you feel no connection to him is because he doesn't feel SAFE to you. You write about your sessions as if it's a continuing trauma that you must somehow endure. Is it any wonder that your body shows up to the sessions, but you have very carefully built a wall up around the stuff you know that he will be able to hurt you with?
Therapy is not an ongoing test to see if you're strong enough to endure more trauma and abuse.
You can tell yourself that he does incredibly kind things, but you know that your heart doesn't "buy it". That's why your heart won't allow you to feel connected with him.
The thinking "rational" part of you makes a decision to go to your sessions. The "feeling" part of you ties itself in a big inpenetrable knot and barely makes it through week after week. Is it any wonder that when you get home, the knot starts to loosen and unravel and you are then able to emotionally react to the awful situation that your "therapy" has become?
Maybe it's time to listen to that part- when it says "I'm hurting" it's BEGGING your thinking decision-making part to pick up the phone and make the calls. You have to take care of your "feeling" parts, because they only have so many ways that they can protect themselves, and it sounds like they've reached some point that's unbearable for much longer.
The nice thing about doing what your feelings are begging you to do is that afterwards you can "FEEL" relief. This is so much more satisfying than doing what our "logical rational thinking" parts ask us to do. Those parts are kind of slippery anyways. They can rationalize most anything and spin most any horror into being some other thing altogether.
you take good care. I'll be thinking of you. (pick up the phone? please?)
your friend,
-Li
Posted by sunnydays on October 26, 2006, at 9:33:26
In reply to please explain me and this **trigs ED, SI...?, posted by ElaineM on October 25, 2006, at 21:14:40
((((((((((ElaineM))))))))))
wishing you strength and happiness
sunnydays
Posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 12:04:22
In reply to Re: please explain me and this **trigs ED, SI.. » ElaineM, posted by canadagirl on October 26, 2006, at 5:39:19
>>>This was just something I never ever expected. I've always been terrified of ever finding myself needing to contact places like that. <<<
>It's a scary thing to do. But you did it. You somehow found the strength.
I know. I'm not at all bothered by needing to now. I guess cause once you get to a certain place there's no point in fearing it happening - cause it already did. I just get really down that I have to resort to the last resorts. It makes me so sad that I have nothing else but those. I wouldn't call it strength, but *something* pushed me through the anxiety and embarassment of reaching out. I mean, I'm so afraid of people, especially on my own, that I can't even comprehend that I did it as many times as I have. Because of that, I just really really wanted it to make a difference.
>>Don't give up Elaine; take one day at a time. One hour at a time if that's all you can do. Pain can make us feel like that.
I do do that one hour thing. I wouldn't have made it to the spring if I let myself think too much of the horribleness that was waiting. An hour takes so long to pass when you have to approach life that way. It's strange - the last year has both felt like it was an enternity, and that life is just slipping away in the blink of an eye. I guess cause it's just been a waste. It's so woe-as-me but I just want to scream at the top of my lungs, "I've done my part! When is this gonna be enough?!!!" :""(
Oh god, I'm sorry. I just can't stop talking like such a downer. Every post just comes back to the same thing. I'm gonna push everyone away with my "Ya, buts..." I'm sorry, it does mean something to me when you answer.
>>> emailed back to see if he would make me a plan to lose weight, <<<
>>!!!!! is all I have to say to that. :-)I just want to see where he goes with it. I had asked several months ago if he thought me losing weight would make a difference. And I guess he assumed that I meant for aesthetic reasons, and he said that he liked the way I looked just fine. I mentioned it once more briefly (cause my mind is just grasping at straws to figure this illness out, and make it controllable) and asked if he thought it would make a physical difference. Cause I don't remember feeling sick ever when I was AN. Only once I started recovering each time. Of course that *is* when the side-effects would be seen most. I know that part - by it's very very hard not to remember feeling "strong" and taking so much assault on my body and STILL being able to be a robot - when all the doctors were saying, Oh she's so sick, You're so unhealthy, You're making yourself ill! I never felt it then. So my dumb brain still connects thin to feeling healthier. I know how much I destoryed myself with that, but sometimes my head still has a hard time connecting the cause, to the after-effects. Plus, what I have now could've been building then and just hadn't manifested yet. Could've happened if I had never been anorexic at all.
When I wanted him to clarify if weight could maybe, tiniest possibility, make a difference to this now, I figured I'd get the same old lines. But now when HE was the one who mentioned it, and he knows the body, I assume that he must kinda know what he's talking about. I'm not a doctor. I know nothing about physiology other than the tiny ED-related part that I picked up by osmosis when in treatments. I can't believe he would suggest something so "dangerous" if there wasn't a small chance that it could be the right thing to try.
Honestly, I'm kinda praying that his answer is, "Whoa, what was I thinking. I must've been dumb yesterday. I change my mind." But if it's not, then I have to try it. I MUST just try. I asked him that if this is the right thing to do, if he'd tell me what to try to not hurt myself. Though, I know that I just don't have the body or mind resilience to have it be a risk at relapsing. I'm so so far from even being close to what would signal a potential relapse. Plus, I would never be so disrespectful of the body the way I was then. It's not possible for me to starve with my bones and bowels like this. I would never do it like that. I just want to please god find something to make a difference here. It doesn't even matter what I look like. It was never about that anyways. I never want to be like before. It's not about wanting that back. I just want to find a variable that makes a change in how my body is falling apart. Anyways, he hasn't got back yet.
>>>Take very good care of yourself today.
I did do something nice. I called my gram cause it's her birthday. She so old and precious. It's hard to help her understand more but I love when part of it connects. And she seems to like the staff there. I love her.
Posted by Racer on October 26, 2006, at 13:07:05
In reply to please explain me and this **trigs ED, SI...?, posted by ElaineM on October 25, 2006, at 21:14:40
>
> Things are so messed up. Stuff is going on in sessions that I know aren't normal. But then T does something incredibly generous and helpful - especially because I don't have a physician right now. He takes care of things I couldn't have organized myself. But then there's all the other stuff that is making me even more insane than I am. And something I'm finding really hard is that I can read stuff on the board about what other T's have said or done, and my T *has* done and said those things, and they felt like nothing. But then when people say that that was good of the T it gets me really confused.
>
> And he said that maybe I should work hard to lose weight!!! And he said that it could be good. He said that I've always said that I felt good and healthy when I was AN (which I did/do think), and now I am opposite, so he said he'd be a liar if he tried to pretend that some people aren't just happier when they keep their weight low. God I just can't believe that he said that.
>
> But maybe it's true.Elaine, you do know better. You know that AN isn't a healthy way to live. You know that you can't decide to go back there in order to get better -- you can only go back there in order to get sicker and sicker and sicker still. You know that.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't think there was a problem. I do think there's a very real, very significant problem here. (No, silly, not you!) From what you've written over the time I've seen your posts here, I have formed an opinion that this guy does NOT have your best interests first and foremost in his mind. I've formed the opinion that this therapist is dangerous for you. What you've written above is so outrageous I'm almost lost for words.
I'm not going to say much more, because I really have had an emotional reaction to this. I'm pretty hot right now, so to protect myself from being incivil, I will make the rest of this pretty short...
If I had to guess, based only on what I've read here in your posts, I'd say the reason you're not responding to certain things the way others do is that you don't have the trust built up that others here might have, or might be building. I would guess that you don't trust your T, and that's why the things that are good for others aren't feeling good for you.
I know you have some difficulties with access to other Ts. I hope you do find a new T, someone who really can help you. Someone you can trust. Someone who's dedicated to helping you satisfy your needs, not using you to satisfy his/her needs. It hasn't ever sounded as though you've got that now.
Best luck, Elaine. I hope things get much better for you soon.
Posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 16:31:53
In reply to Re: please explain me and this, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 8:41:53
>>>>>>The really good sessions with the right things being said- well, those are kind of rare, and special. Can't expect that to happen every week, that's why when they DO happen it's so amazing.
I know they can't happen all the time - infact I don't ever expect them to happen at all. Maybe I'm also just uncomfortable with compliments in general. He's called me courageous for living through all I did growing up, and that he's proud of the intelligent thoughtful person I've become despite hard stuff. He says he's continually amazed at how strong I am enduring all these medical things. He says he would do anything in the world to take away what's wrong with me, pay for my teeth too. And even though I know he's completely genuine when he says stuff like that (regardless of the other things he also says), I could barely feel him say those things at all.
>>>>>The other reason why you feel no connection to him is because he doesn't feel SAFE to you.
I'm sad that I think that's true. I don't feel in danger there, like he's gonna smack me or worse, but that he is not strong enough for me to be weak. But how can a person deeply care and NOT themselves be set off-balance and hurt when another is feeling sad? How do you know if caring is real then? How can anyone feel safe that way? (I think I'll leave the rest of this idea for later)
I used to feel spooked that he would want to hold me so much, but that had started to subside. That's also why I had wanted him to return my last email so I could see if that's what he was trying to say he wanted to start up doing again, or not. (I wanted Not) But then if it would make him *feel* strong enough inside to appear stronger for me, maybe it would be worth it......Li, he said that it would make him feel better at least if I did let him hold me while I spoke....???.... :( He said, "So is that okay?" I know he's not liked here, but how do I sorta say No in a really really nice way. I know I don't need to "be nice" but if I don't feel that he wouldn't be hurt by my answer then I just won't be able to say anything. I feel bad using it like this, but would it be disrespectful for me to kinda use my ED history as an excuse, and say that I feel too fat to let him touch me. And then maybe I can say that only hugging before goodbye would help me.
I need help with this part cause I'm supposed to go to him after my ultrasounds tomorrow. Help with this part please.>>>>The thinking "rational" part of you makes a decision to go to your sessions. The "feeling" part of you ties itself in a big inpenetrable knot and barely makes it through week after week.
I never thought of it like that. That does sound true. I haven't been able to help saying all those horrible thoughts in my sessions lately, though I do shutup pretty quickly cause a reassuring, or structured response never comes. I feel his scaredness when I speak like that. Often he ends up just staying in silence. But then I just feel like I need to find something to break the silence and I end up just blurting out an equally horrible (or repetative) statement.
But it's true that I usually just end up keeping it in and then either I panic-blowup all over myself and SI happens, or I flood all over you guys here. I want him to stay with his T. I want his T to make him strong. And then I want him to share his strength with me by knowing what to do with me more when I don't do therapy right. When I don't know how it's supposed to go. When I can't break silences. When I have bad symptoms get worse. I mean, what do other T's say then? Maybe I'm holding him to standards that don't really exist. Like, what would another T say if a client seemed like they were getting worse, and was wanting to die? Would they not just also say "I'm sorry you feel that way", "I want you to live", "Hospital", or also maybe a hug or tear. OR is the difference that T's can show weaknesss but it has to only be at the right times, and not most of the time. Or I guess you're saying that the same actions or words can be judged differently (like mean more to others) because of the way the relationship feels leading up to it?....okay I have to stop cause I'm talking myself confused.
Posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 17:26:20
In reply to GRRR! **ED trigger** » ElaineM, posted by Racer on October 26, 2006, at 13:07:05
This is mostly a reply to Racer, but I didn't want to tag it like that to give her even more of an option to NOT read it. But R, if you were at a point where you felt okay to open this then it's replies to some of your stuff.
[I'm sorry you got triggered. I hope it doesn't upset you or stay with you]==========
>>>>>Elaine, you do know better. You know that AN isn't a healthy way to live. You know that you can't decide to go back there in order to get better -- you can only go back there in order to get sicker and sicker and sicker still. You know that.
Oh I know. Racer, I really really really know that. I promise. I would never do any more damage to myself - I couldn't afford it.
>>>>>>What you've written above is so outrageous I'm almost lost for words.
I felt the same. I'm sorry if I sound a little dumb during the posts talking about this. My brain is kind of in shock or something. I'm baffled that these weight loss things are coming at me from the opposite side. It's so disorienting, so confusing.
>>>>>>I have formed an opinion that this guy does NOT have your best interests first and foremost in his mind
I don't think he consciously wants to do or say the wrong thing to me. I know he wouldn't hurt me on purpose. I think that's why I feel so guilty. But I also think it's the same reason why I feel scared. I know I probably sound stubborn and stupid but it's really only been these latest comments about weight-loss that have deeply struck something in me. God it's just so confusing. THe ones who I trusted to tell me I shouldn't lose, who gave me as a recovering AN to T, who has dealt with others with the same problem (or B), has me now being told I maybe should lose. ?????? I'm sorry I'm harping but I can't let it go.
[I'll put what he replied at the end incase nobody wants to read that part, though it's not really ED bad]
IT's so strange to me that I can't not believe that he MUST know what he's doing. I mean, he MUST! Everyone in the world knows that you just wouldn't say that to someone who has been so sick before. There must be a really important reason. Maybe this WILL somehow help with the other thing. ....?.......?..........
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I did get his reply and it's really disturbing to me. I felt like I would throw up reading it. I know that's me being overly sensitive, but it was one sentence that made/makes me want to run screaming down the street. It's not the weight control part even. He really only suggested an exercise regime he thinks would be good to start. I doubt I'll do it. Obviously I've already always been trying to exercise as well as I could since I'm kept so immobile most of the time. I physically COULDN'T do it. Infact I felt worse after. I'll try how he's suggested, I'm no exercise expert, but it's not gonna do anything to my weight. It does seem normal and safe I guess. It's not like exercise has ever been even the smallest symptom. I pretty much hate it with a passion. I don't know. Whatever. He didn't mention food yet. He said he needs to think more about how to say what he wants to about diet. But honestly, it's this other non-weight part that I'm finding so disturbing. (though I am curious to see how much he thinks I need to not eat certain things, amounts, times)I'll see what he says about eating. I remember what I was taught was right for women my age to eat, if it's much different then that then I don't know what I'll do!! (I won't do it) but I won't know how I'll react to him. I'm more passionate about what I went throught with AN than any other piece of me.
Posted by Racer on October 26, 2006, at 21:06:00
In reply to about T's reply *******ED trigger*******, posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 17:26:20
> This is mostly a reply to Racer, but I didn't want to tag it like that to give her even more of an option to NOT read it. But R, if you were at a point where you felt okay to open this then it's replies to some of your stuff.
> [I'm sorry you got triggered. I hope it doesn't upset you or stay with you]
Ah, I wasn't triggered in an AN way by that -- just a "Elaine deserves better than that" way. ;-)I don't know what to tell you, except that I do think you deserve better, and I hope things improve soon. I've got an ultrasound on Friday, so I'll think good thoughts for you, if you think good thoughts for me, 'K?
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 22:00:13
In reply to how is regular? » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 16:31:53
> >>>>>The other reason why you feel no connection to him is because he doesn't feel SAFE to you.
>
> I'm sad that I think that's true. I don't feel in danger there, like he's gonna smack me or worse, but that he is not strong enough for me to be weak. But how can a person deeply care and NOT themselves be set off-balance and hurt when >another is feeling sad? How do you know if caring is real then? How can anyone feel safe that way? (I think I'll leave the rest of this idea for later)
There are SO many different levels of caring and support. If you feel something, then it's real-- that's the best you can do! You cannot force yourself to feel things. It's okay to admit to yourself that feelings change over time. Trust me- 10 feet away is the love of my life, and I feel kind of ambivalent. pretty numb. It's not ideal, but hey- that's what it is. I can't force it. But I will go cuddle with him in a little while and see if I feel something maybe through body language- because just looking and talking and laughing with him is not really making me feel connected. frustrating.
>
> I used to feel spooked that he would want to hold me so much, but that had started to subside. That's also why I had wanted him to return my last email so I could see if that's what he was trying to say he wanted to start up doing again, or not. (I wanted Not) But then if it would make him *feel* strong enough inside to appear stronger for me, maybe it would be worth it......um. how would you respond to me if I wrote this?
>>Li, he said that it would make him feel better at least if I did let him hold me while I spoke....???.... :( He said, "So is that okay?" I know he's not liked here, but how do I sorta say No in a really really nice way. I know I don't need to "be nice" but if I don't feel that he wouldn't be hurt by my answer then I just won't be able to say anything. I feel bad using it like this, but would it be disrespectful for me to kinda use my ED history as an excuse, and say that I feel too fat to let him touch me. And then maybe I can say that only hugging before goodbye would help me.
That sounds reasonable- but what if he starts to try and "work" on that? It sounds like he doesn't have experience with ED, and he might totally say the wrong things?
How about if you say what you feel "For whatever reason, I'm not feeling very safe these days. I have a lot of anxiety, and I am getting triggered by things that usually don't bother me (like the elevator thing). I think it might be more comfortable for me if we can just have a quick hug when I leave."
> I need help with this part cause I'm supposed to go to him after my ultrasounds tomorrow. Help with this part please.I am not much of a helper. I hope someone else has some ideas? I've never had to negotiate this with a guy, much less my T.
> >>>>The thinking "rational" part of you makes a decision to go to your sessions. The "feeling" part of you ties itself in a big inpenetrable knot and barely makes it through week after week.
you know, being a T is a really hard thing. Being My T has special challenges- in that I don't really have access to my feelings often, and when I do, they are often overwhelming, distressing, and out of control (in my opinion...). Being your T has challenges too. I think it's okay to admit that your T maay be a good guy. He may be a great T for some folks. He may even have been a great T for you- if you had met him in a couple of years. But he's a very poor T for you right now. You know that, but I'm appalled that he doesn't. When my exT realized just how much he was triggering my anxiety, and just how hard it was for me to feel safe to open up to him (Patient presented with study-skill problems... Patient terminated with intrusive flashbacks of recurrent child abuse) RIGHT. so, at that very SAME session- he picked up his calendar- gave me a phone number of my newT and told me that she had a lot of experience working with people who were going through things like this... And he had my best interests in mind. Even though I'm sure as a T it would have been lots of fun for him to go poking around in my subconscious to see what other delights were lurking there.Like I said, it's a demanding profession. He's not a complete loser if your "t" is not up to the challenge. I hope you can find someone who is, 'cause you deserve more. It sounds like you're at a point in your treatment where you need less challenge and more support.
your long-winded friend,
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 23:35:02
In reply to Re: how is regular? (**child abuse trauma mild**) » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 26, 2006, at 22:00:13
Li, you make things sound clear and smart. Maybe he *is* good but not for me, or not now that I'm like this. I'm not his usual. Though he is not new to ED's at all. With me though, up until last meeting we've never really ever talked about food or weight or any symptoms of anything (except me being to scared to do more outside things) It wasn't necessary - the illness killed whatever was left of AN. But since I am different, maybe it's like all his knowledge and other experiences can't be applied to me. (And I do know that he has other big stuff going on in his life right now - that I've chosen to not write about in public)
I like that you're "long-winded" - I need things explained that way. ((((Li)))) I'm pretty dumb when it comes to understanding things and people. I could always write papers at school but it used to amaze me cause I'm so clueless about nearly everything else in life. I distrust everything I think I know, and usually everything someone else tells me.
Before in his reply..........T said.....that he sometimes wants to hold me in his arms like a small child :"( and that he can imagine rocking me :"( ......... but then i remember what he said before :(..........and WHY did he have to have said that then!!!!???? WHY!!!! This could've been a nice thing to say but NOT when he's said BOTH! NOT! :"( ....can he not remember......that's just not, not things that go together. I wanted to throw up. I thought I was going to. my stomach was sour.......it could've been nice........I can't stop thinking i've ruined this supposed-to-be comfort thing......I...can't stop worrying that I made that other part come, and i made the two opposite things together! I can't stop thinking. I didn't mean to. but I don't think I did, but I can't remember good so maybe i always forget everything. okay i'm having a panic attack! :( my heart is heavy. But maybe he doesn't think the before part now, anymore. Maybe it's erased and so it was gone before this, and so then it would be more ok. That has to be true. i mean, it's probably got to be true. I should go to sleep. I hope it comes blank. I wish I was living with LadyDoc. i want to email her right now but she'd be scared by my craziness. I should email helplady. I'm scared really really scared she will not answer AGAIN! I can't take it one more time. WHy is there no one!! I don't want to say something crazy if i type now. I can't spell right now. oh god what if there's no answer. Maybe I'll try one more time tomorrow cause that's what everyone says. I'm scared for tomorrow and grossness. I'll try and remember that Racer is doing same on the same day and it will be alright for us both :(
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 6:48:23
In reply to Re: how is regular? (**child abuse trauma mild**) » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 26, 2006, at 23:35:02
((((Elaine))))
I'll write more later, just wanted to give you some safe hugs from a friend.
I know that you were feeling really bad last night-- I hope you were able to get some rest.
take care today, okay?
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 27, 2006, at 16:58:24
In reply to Re: how is regular? (**child abuse trauma mild**) » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 6:48:23
Li thanks for that little message. You are one of the dearest people I've ever met. You give so much to so many who post - even frustrating ones like myself (didn't say that to get a "no you're not" back either). It really helps you know. Makes a difference to me :')
[sorry if that feels awkward]I went to ultrasound this morning. It hurt alot to drink that much - and fasting. It always hurts to drink at all - I don't usually have that much liquid in an entire day. The hardest part was that they didn't offer any draping (if you get my drift). It was quite humiliating. I spent the whole hour frozen like a statue, and scared that someone else would barge in the door - though I saw her lock it. I've never been THAT exposed during one - but I was too shocked to say anything. I just wanted all the images captured so I could leave. She did tell me at the end that she wanted to redo some of the internal - and I just flipped out :( I started panicking and repeating in a soft robotic voice, like, "No. no i can't now. i can't do more right now. I'm not comfortable with more today." She said that the report may have inconclusive parts, but I hope what she has is enough. I'll just have to go back, but I knew i had enough for one day. I'll just have to wait now and see.
I'm so weepy. Alot happened today (not all sh*tty). I'll write more later. I'm tired and sore :-(
Posted by Karolina on October 27, 2006, at 21:45:52
In reply to got through ****med procedure » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 27, 2006, at 16:58:24
Hey Elaine,
I tried to b-mail you but I'm not sure if it sent (??) I'm glad your ultrasound went well for the most part and that not all of your day was sh*tty. I just wanted to say hi and that I'm sorry 2 all of you guys because I haven't been on the boards in a long time (I feel really bad about it)
I hope you get some good rest and please let us know how you are.
-Karolina-
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 22:21:20
In reply to Re: got through ****med procedure, posted by Karolina on October 27, 2006, at 21:45:52
Hi Karolina,
don't feel sad for being away. It's okay. I don't know you well, but I know you from your archived posts, and I'm glad you dropped by. Please don't feel like you dissappoint us!
*****Hi Elaine,
no, what you wrote wasn't awkward. That's a really sweet thing for you to say. I felt kind of bad, because I kept on thinking I would have more time to post on babble, but events transpired against me. I've been having a lot of depression, and it's hard to get stuff done. Plus, husband made me get up and go do a halloween event that he had tickets for. I did my hair in a mohawk. It's really amazine, because it actually stayed. I suppose having short baby-fine hair actually has a few things going for it. Husband likes it. thinks I should wear it more often. I have a bit of "attitude", though. I'm not sure if I can pull it off.I'm glad to hear that your procedure is over. Next time you go, you can always ask the nurse for a blanket or a drape. You can make the excuse that you get cold easily. It doesn't have to be about privacy. Ugh. I HATE it when drs. forget that there's a PERSON in front of them. HELLLOOO??!? As if the procedure is not invasive enough, they add whipped cream, nuts and a cherry.
((((((soreElaine))))))
I hope you can do something for yourself to make the pain go away, or feel different, or move to a new place, somehow?
Have a happy fried-day night,
feeling the seroquel. I think you got the last good part of my thinking today! Lucky you!
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 28, 2006, at 12:53:11
In reply to Re: got through ****med procedure, posted by Karolina on October 27, 2006, at 21:45:52
Hi Karolina: I've been thinking about you. Don't worry about not reading much - it's probably a good thing if you've had other stuff going on. I hope you're well. I think you posted recently that you got back together with boyf? I'm happy for you.
======
Sorry, I meant to post more yesterday, just to finish up, but I was exhausted. There really wasn't much more.I went to T. We talked about what I should do to start modifying my diet. He's picked a level to start at that I'm probably eating right now anyways (or maybe a bit more) - normal for my age and height. Though he did say the goal would be to work lower. He had sent another email answering my question if this was *really* what he thought was best, and he said that it is what he believes at the moment, and that it *is* his opinion that it may make a difference in my body's health and possibly help my other illness get better. I am still confused about what I think though. I wish I had more medical support right now. Maybe I'll mention this to GI guy while I'm there next month - though he's only concerned with the stuff that's his specialty. (and he probably won't know anything about my main diagnosis)(but at least he's familiar with my ED history) I'm very hopeless feeling now - getting to that empty, dejected state again. I don't want to care about anything anymore. I'm so tired of it all.
And then, again, after 15minutes we switched back to him for over an hour. I like helping with other's problems if I can, I really do, but... I don't know. [I know that a client's not supposed to be talking about the therapist's stuff, but it's not like we've had a conventional relationship for a long time now.] But now, we don't really talk much about me anymore at all. I know it's cause there's nothing he can do to stop the feelings like I want to die, or the SI, or panic, or even just sadness, and he hates realizing that. There's nothing he can say or do to take any of it away, and we don't like silence, so I guess he just wants to fill it. Maybe he thinks his stuff would be a good destraction for me from my own bad stuff - I do get that vibe from him sometimes. But this is all just a repeating of all my sessions lately......sorry I'm redundant. I won't mention this stuff again unless something different happens. It doesn't do anything to be writing about it, in the end it's only words. :( I'm fine. I may just need a little break. I don't know. I have no good feelings left at all, no control, nothing. Maybe I'm just tired. I feel like I'm shuting down.
I'm pretty scared of the "good" thing. Really scared of it. I think somehow it's what's making me feel so completely done. *sigh* So confused.
But thanks for asking. Nice to know you're still out there. And drop in here whenever you need to.
blove, EL
Posted by ElaineM on October 28, 2006, at 19:18:50
In reply to for Elaine » Karolina, posted by Lindenblüte on October 27, 2006, at 22:21:20
>>>>>>>I felt kind of bad, because I kept on thinking I would have more time to post on babble, but events transpired against me. I've been having a lot of depression, and it's hard to get stuff done.
No need to feel bad. I'm not your charge. And I know you well enough know that you care about many people here, and write what you can, when you can. I always appreciate everything others write, everything you write, but I wouldn't want it to ever feel like a chore or obligation.
Sometimes it takes me awhile to respond (and I'm not even going to parties). Was it any fun at all?I know you've been going through a low point right now. (((Li)))
>>>>Have a happy fried-day night
Was that an ostrich reference ;-) No really, has your head stopped sloshing? Physical pain and discomfort always makes everything else even more difficult.
Posted by caraher on October 28, 2006, at 20:48:41
In reply to Re: for Elaine » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 28, 2006, at 19:18:50
Hi El,
I don't have anything brilliant to say... I just caught up on this thread (I've been busy at a workshop the past few days) and I'm sorry you feel so awful and have so much going on. I really think you need to refuse to let the conversation take the course your "T" wants it to take after only 15 minutes on you ESPECIALLY when he won't see a real T himself!
I can't help but feel that he has some kind of weird control thing going on. It sometimes seems as if he wants to see how much he can get you do by alternating inappropriate requests with acts of kindness. Like, in some twisted space inside his mind, he's thinking, "Let's see if I can get an ex-AN patient to start dieting to lose weight."
A family my wife and I were not-very-close friends with was torn apart about 6 years ago when the husband killed his wife and then himself. At the memorial service we spoke a representative of a local domestic violence help and prevention agency. We expressed our feelings of unbelief... the husband seemed a very charming, gentle man. She replied that it's quite common for there to be two faces to an abuser, one of which is probably what attracted the victim to him in the first place.
I hope your T is merely a very confused man, but out here in Babble-land we're going to form our opinions based more on what he does than anything else. And he has done and said enough really inappropriate and strange things that I can't help but worry whether he has some twisted motives and will harm you - probably not physically, but the injury would be no less real. Nobody here wants to see anything added to your woes!
Posted by muffled on October 28, 2006, at 22:14:54
In reply to long time no see ***mild ED » Karolina, posted by ElaineM on October 28, 2006, at 12:53:11
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 28, 2006, at 23:20:52
In reply to Re: for Elaine » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 28, 2006, at 19:18:50
> No need to feel bad. I'm not your charge.
Oh my- that would be pretty funny. Li as the guardian of Elaine. I think the only thing I am capable of, in terms of caregiving is to make the occasional ice cream run. Maybe when I'm feeling incredibly energetic a load of laundry would be washed, but probably not dried. lol. Our place would be a pig-sty!! I try my hardest to reserve my mental powers for my student-activities, and for the daily conversation with husband and/or T. Other than that- there's only leftovers.
>And I know you well enough know that you care about many people here, and write what you can, when you can. I always appreciate everything others write, everything you write, but I wouldn't want it to ever feel like a chore or obligation.
Aww- it's never an obligation. It's an opportunity. I don't know why, but thinking about other people's problems and different ways to tackle a conundrum seems to pull me out of my introspection and make me feel somewhat human. Plus, I get e-mails to check on my threads, and I find a way to pass the time. the tick-tock, you know?
> Sometimes it takes me awhile to respond (and I'm not even going to parties). Was it any fun at all?
Well, it was okay. I went to a halloween party with me and a dozen of my husband's colleagues and spouses. Husband was a whore. I was a sheriff, so aside from feeling kind of out of sorts and manly, well, it was okay. I ate a lot of candy corn, and I drank 2 beers, which is not exactly on pdoc's menu, but c'mon. It's been over a month since my last drink. And we played board games. Fortunately, I never had to do anything embarrassing, like a charade for "low-rider". I kind of kept a cheerful face on. I'm good at that.
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 29, 2006, at 13:03:56
In reply to (((El))) *** violence/suicide triggers ***, posted by caraher on October 28, 2006, at 20:48:41
((((((caraher))))))
>>>>I really think you need to refuse to let the conversation take the course your "T" wants it to take after only 15 minutes on you ESPECIALLY when he won't see a real T himself!I just don't know how. By the time he switches, I've already used up whatever words I feel I need to say, and am sitting it awkward silence. It's not like I'm in the middle of a train of thought or anything. I just don't have anything further to say. I say physical and psychological symptoms I have, what I feel at the moment, and usually stuff about wanting someone to kill me. Then sometimes tears, and then silence. And then he switches. I don't know how to tell him what to say, or how to run a session, or what I need, cause I don't know ANY of that myself. i can say that I need more support, but what does that mean?! I need to give him concrete examples, but there are none. He can't take away anything that's wrong with me. I don't know what a different T would do.
He hasn't given up T entirely. He does have the follow up and i asked him that if he seems to need more once that meeting rolls around, if he felt he would be able to ask for *more* frequency. He said yes. And he's really doing alot more when we talk now. We're making a list of what needs to be said to his T. I've decided that pushing him to mention me makes him too defensive and discouraged. So I'm pushing on working on the stuff behind me. He seems to be making progress in uncovering stuff. It's at a really basic level, at an outlining stage, but it's a start. I just find it very tiring and extremely difficult to guess at how to do this. I'm recycling stuff that's been directed at me. I'm reading articles and books on what he's said are his problems. I'm trying to understand more about what T's think about seeing other T's so I can help more with that. I'm trying to say the right things to prompt deeper answers or self-reflecting (though it's probably way too early for that), and not just yes and no answers. [I'm trying to say this in a really superficial way cause I don't feel comfortable exposing specifics of his life and history. I already feel like I'm betraying his confidence in the most horrible way but...] I'm trying to think logically, but it's very panic-creating when I find my brain frantically trying to stay one step ahead of his responses, and think on my feet, and pulling smart things out of nowhere, and still be sensitive, when I'm cutting myself, and my health is so poor, and my own mind so unstable. How do you help someone else with *their* life when you want to end your own??? And I try to not let my age and gender influence my interpretations of what he talks about - I find that quite hard actually, but if I stay aware of it, I usually just hold back a too-personal response. I'm trying very very hard but I'M NOT TRAINED. I feel like a child trying to guide a blind bear through an obstacle course that I'm terrified of myself! I've taken a couple courses in university that involved mental illnesses, but please that's absolutely NOTHING. I'm not a student of Clin.Psy. THe best I know, is basically from MY OWN treatments - and that scares the sh*t out of me - for myself *and* for him.
But I'm hoping that if he can just get used to the idea of talking to someone about his own stuff, if I can help him to see that there's not just "nothing" for him to bring to sessions of his own, but TONS. If he can experience someone caring about his stuff and letting him be vulnerable (which is a joke of a thing for me to say. I want to kick the sh*t out of my two-faced self for spewing his stuff all over here while leading him to believe that I'm safe), if he can stay motivated until the appointment comes, then I think he'll commit to a more consistent and frequent schedule with his T, and then will begin to limit his stuff to his own sessions.
It is terribly hard for me to discourage him from speaking and sharing even if technically it is not appropriate, cause I know, I can feel, that this part of him has been hidden and ignored and pushed away out of some stoic professional shame. And a history of denying and avoiding intense emotions. Plus, he is going through a personal crisis right now. I understand completely how everything could be coming out right now. I can't tell him what's happening is wrong (even if I *was* assertive and brave and everything that's *not* me) cause it's not. It's the *right* thing, it's just happening with the *wrong* person. But I KNOW he would just shut-down completely, and destructively, if I criticized it in even the gentlest way. I will not do that. I can't. :'(
And I really worry that others might interpret what I've said as insulting or disrespectful of the T profession. Or that I think I'm smart, and can do from an armchair what others spend years of schooling and practise mastering. THe part that makes me so frantic is that I know I DON'T know anything. But I feel like it's come down to my sh*tty breadcrumbs of pretending to know - or absolutely nothing at all. I want this to have an end result of him staying with someone who *does* actually have the brain and the competence and experience. I just don't want people to be angry at me for trying my best in the situation.
>>>>I can't help but feel that he has some kind of weird control thing going on. It sometimes seems as if he wants to see how much he can get you do by alternating inappropriate requests with acts of kindness.
I just have a gut feeling it's not that. That he just wants to help so much, but doesn't know how. Maybe I just can't be helped. Maybe he doesn't realize he could be saying the wrong things. Maybe he's saying the right things and I need to trust that (that's what I'm thinking about the losing weight thing). He just MUST know what he's saying. It's too obvious to not make that suggestion to a recovering AN unless it was NEEDED for something else, unless it was the right thing that must be done.
Caraher (and anyone else who reads) I'm sorry. There's so much more you all don't know. So much more that would make all that's happening make sense - not in the sense that any of it's alright, but that it'd be more explainable. It's too personal to say, but it's there. I don't want to make him seem incompetent. He's not. He seems to treat his other patients effectively. He's very well schooled. He has ALOT of experience. He's respected by his peers. OThers know him (which also leaves me paralyzed and paranoid of speaking). I really think that a small part of what's triggering him is attempting a more nurturant-supportive approach - I think he's much more skilled and comfortable with the analytical style. [And again I feel like an a$$hole talking about all this, it's so obvious I'm trying so hard, and it sounds unsubstantiated and fake and ....?.....! Ahhhh! :"( ] I want you guys to give me ideas and tell me how to "mock-treat" him. I want instructions I can follow. But I know that's not gonna happen. And I know it's not fair to expect or hope that others can understand or help with the way everything effects me, without being given all the information. I just can't help asking for help anyways. :'( It's the worst rock and a hard place I've ever been in. *sigh*
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 15:09:02
In reply to trying to know, knowing I don't » caraher, posted by ElaineM on October 29, 2006, at 13:03:56
Hi Elaine,
Have you ever told him some of the stuff you've told us here? Things like- you REALLY want to be able to help, but you are terrified of saying the wrong thing? That you are naturally a very kind supportive person, but that it really hurts you when someone is in need and you feel that your help is not making any difference? Could you tell him how bad you feel that there is something specific about you (Elaine) that is causing him to have all of these reactions? How guilty you feel that you have caused all of his problems?I'm just wondering.
I don't know crap about clinical psych work. I don't even know what the client is supposed to be doing, much less the therapist! I only know that your "therapist" is not putting enough of his professional training to use when he works with you. I feel really sad when my friend Elaine isn't getting the help she deserves to feel better.
Thanks for your long post, though. It helps me understand the dynamic better. My guess is that the reason why he has picked YOU to confide in is because he has sensed that you are a very caring, nurturing person. He also knows your vulnerabilities, however, and he certainly wouldn't be confiding in you if he had a fear that you were going to cause his professional organization or licensing bureau to investigate. He probably wouldn't confide in you anymore if you kept on telling him dumb, stupid stuff either, or if you started saying hurtful things to him. He probably understands you well enough to know that if something "goes wrong" you tend to take all the blame, and leave the other person feeling shining and unblemished.
So, I'm torn- why should I give you any advice on the "right" things to say to him, if it means that he will just continue to abuse your kind heart? If you started being unsupportive, maybe it would be a wake-up call to him that he is asking the wrong person for help (trust me, he is!). My only concern is that your entire notion of this therapeutic relationship revolves around helping others, even at the cost of slowly sacrificing your own mental health and stability.
Can you survive a seismic change in the therapeutic relationship? One where your "T" walks in one day and says- listen, Elaine, I don't think it's appropriate for me to tell you about my personal problems. What if he were to change OVERNIGHT, and become the T that his other clients experience? Would you be devastated, thinking that he had found out that you had "betrayed" him (or some such nonsense- no confidentiality agreement demands YOUR silence!!!). Would you be devastated that he decided that you weren't important enough or smart enough, or kind enough or whatever, for him to share his issues with you?
I see him as sucking the life-force out of you. You are suffering so much unneeded anxiety and trauma. I wonder whether the cutting and physical pain you suffer from are symptomatic of your deteriorating therapeutic relationship with this man. I honestly wonder whether you would be better off with no T at this point, but I don't know how much of your own self-esteem you have invested in making this relationship "work". Only you know what is best for you.
Just don't lose track of the big picture, and don't lose track of your own personal goals. This time, next year, what do you want to be doing? Perhaps you would like to go back to school, or work in a library, or be a tutor to kids in need, or live in a nicer apt., or make 2 new friends? Maybe you will have as a goal to make it to the babble-conference thingie which is supposed to take place in San Diego- I don't know if that's a long way for you?- or maybe a vacation with a special friend?
There's more to life than therapy. I promise!
I just want to help you understand that you have SO much to offer the world outside your window. Even though you don't believe in yourself sometimes, you have SO many gifts. I think it's selfish for your T to limit your ability to experience the wide world out there. I so dearly wish you could be free of this man.
-Li
Posted by frida on October 29, 2006, at 19:52:32
In reply to Re: trying to know, knowing I don't » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 15:09:02
hi..
i agree with what Li has shared...i so wish you could have a real T... what he's doing with you is not therapy..
Reading your post brought tears to my eyes, you are such a caring person...
i truly wish you could have a real, supportive T who could be there for you.
i know you want to help him...but I see you're sacrificing so much of yourself..when you should be the one getting help..comfort, safety, guidance...
i am concerned about this situation...
I am not saying he's a bad man, but I see how things can be so confusing sometimes..
i am worried because you do need help...and you're spending so much energy trying to help him...i wish you could have a T to be there for you and focus on you...you deserve help...
I'm so sorry he's not helping you
whatever his reasons, he's just not being a T for you... :-(sending you support,
Frida
Posted by ElaineM on October 29, 2006, at 20:45:10
In reply to Re: trying to know, knowing I don't » ElaineM, posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 15:09:02
>>>Have you ever told him some of the stuff you've told us here? Things like- you REALLY want to be able to help, but you are terrified of saying the wrong thing?
Yes, I've told him that part. I appoligize at the end of every session by saying, I wish I could say better things or help more, but I don't really know about any of this. He says stuff like, Don't worry, I really appreciate everything you say, I think today I realized..., or sometimes only just a "you really amaze me". Sometimes he says "This isn't too much is it" or "You're not tired of this are you?" but I CAN'T really answer those questions. I couldn't. I can tell that he probably doesn't want me to say Yes.
>>>>>Could you tell him how bad you feel that there is something specific about you (Elaine) that is causing him to have all of these reactions? How guilty you feel that you have caused all of his problems?
Oh, I ALWAYS say this. There is something specific about me (that I don't want to go into) that I flat out told him (straight forward, and clearly) what I believe is triggering him. I even said "I'm triggering you" specifically. I told him that I feel bad that I've been unknowingly causing even more hurt just by being and talking about my own stuff. He has discounted the connection. I told him the day it became clear to me that "You MUST tell this to your T. It's a big deal." And he said that it wasn't really and that he didn't want to tell his T about it cause it would only make him sadder. But he's never said that *I* caused his problems. He is always thanking me so heartfeltly for listening. He thanks me for being willing to help, for putting up with hearing his stuff, and for being so understanding. ..... <:-(
>>>>>He probably wouldn't confide in you anymore if you kept on telling him dumb, stupid stuff either, or if you started saying hurtful things to him.
I'm not sure about that. I think he would. He's so unaccustomed to feeling listened to, to being the speaker, the one with all the focus on them, that I think he would think anything I said was alright, just cause I am listening and answering.
>>>>Can you survive a seismic change in the therapeutic relationship? One where your "T" walks in one day and says- listen, Elaine, I don't think it's appropriate for me to tell you about my personal problems. What if he were to change OVERNIGHT, and become the T that his other clients experience?
I want to not hear ALL his stuff. If I had to choose between all or nothing I'd pick nothing. But I always kinda liked when LadyT would throw in a small personal tidbit. It made me feel like she was listening, like I was more than just a hampster in a maze inside her office. She never did it often, but it made the therapy just a little bit more personalized. I don't think a T sharing, or wanting them to share a little sometimes about appropriate things is wrong.
To be perfectly honest, I have already being feeling rejected and confused when he doesn't try to touch me, even though I don't necessarily want that. How screwed up is that?! That I don't need to want the different behaviours, but would still miss them if they weren't there. Or miss what they stood for maybe. I dont' know. I have so many thoughts that my head is jammed.
The only change I know I couldn't ever take from a T would be if they were or went back to being strict, silent (or only repeating the same string of "I hear what you're saying.." lines, word for word, over and over, or the same detatched platitudes) blank-slates. I realize that analysis is more blank-slate, but I'm not strong enough for that, and I've spent enough of my life alone and only with my own thoughts, that that would drive me mad. That's what firstT was like, except for the times where she would have anger bursts, and the final hostile confrontation we had before I ran away and never went back.I do fear now that every T in the future will never seem caring because they have boundaries (even if they were similar to LadyT's). I already am judging my time with LadyT different based on how T is now, and what T-now thinks of her, and it. I'm terrified that everyone will always seem too far away. Or that once they hear about how this relationship has gone, they'll be afraid to be too nice to me, because of having had a T with not many boundaries at all.
>>>>Would you be devastated, thinking that he had found out that you had "betrayed" him (or some such nonsense- no confidentiality agreement demands YOUR silence!!!).
I *would* think those paranoid thoughts. I think all the time about how risky it is for me to post here. If he found out I wouldn't be able to tolerate myself. I woundn't.
>>>>>Would you be devastated that he decided that you weren't important enough or smart enough, or kind enough or whatever, for him to share his issues with you?
I want to say No, but now....maybe Yes. I wouldn't have noticed if it wasn't there in the first place, but now that it is I would definately notice it missing, and try and explain that in my head. I would blame it on everything I feel is wrong about myself. I'd re-analyze everything I said to figure out what changed everything. I'd regret every mistake I could find. *sigh*
Perhaps part of the problem is that I gave up on my own life years and year ago - before him, before AN - and so I've accepted being only a support for someone else. A thing, a maid, a typist, a cook...you get the point. But I don't really mind it. Since I'm not gonna amount to anything I like to facilitate others lives however they want me to. T has said before that he would have to be careful because I accept being used, but I guess he's forgotten, if using me is really what he's doing. I hate thinking that. I don't think he thinks he can "use" me because he sees me as a peer (in a way) - so it'd be more of a relying on eachother. So I know it sounds horrible to say but, I don't expect or want to be around in a year. I haven't for a long time. I remember since I was like 8 I've "known" that I would not live past 25yrs. But I have. I don't feel any connection to the world. I've been told I have a constant low grade depression with episodes of major depression - whatever that means. Inspite of all that I can still recognize the desire to experience as little suffering as possible. I suppose that's something. Or not. I'm not sure. I know that I felt more alive then I've ever been during certain meetings with LadyDoc or LadyT, and in program. I think that's something hopeful, right? .... Sorry, I'm trying to look but I've never been able to answer that "big picture" question before.
I'm doing my best <:-)
Thanks for explaining Li, I've never really thought about that stuff about losing T's loose boundaries. Actually, I have a feeling that that's gonna be a big part of what I'll need to work on at some point. This can't go on forever right? He'll leave me at some point :-( even if he says No now.
blove, EL
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 29, 2006, at 22:34:21
In reply to Re: trying to know, knowing I don't » Lindenblüte, posted by ElaineM on October 29, 2006, at 20:45:10
>Since I'm not gonna amount to anything I like to facilitate others lives however they want me to. So I know it sounds horrible to say but, I don't expect or want to be around in a year. I haven't for a long time. I remember since I was like 8 I've "known" that I would not live past 25yrs. But I have. I don't feel any connection to the world...
Oh this is so hard for me to read. Whoever is writing this is not seeing the Elaine that I have come to know and admire. :'( Whoever is writing this must have been so hurt, that she cannot even accept her own survival. You HAVE lived past 25 years of age. Please try to think about what next summer will be like. Just give it a thought. Take 5 minutes and give it a good hard thought. Where do you want to go on your summer vacation? Anywhere in the world? Do anything you want. Tell me!
I know you feel some connection to the world, because you write b-lovely sentiments, and you connect with ME (okay, I'm only a tiny chunk of the world, but I take up some space!).
Inside of you there is someone struggling very very hard. You've written before that you have put up with a lot of pain, and a lot of people who have taken advantage of you. Even in the midst of great personal hardship, with very little support, you continue to reach out, and try to find someone who will help you find a safer place. That drive you have- for self-preservation, for continuing to fight for your health and your body-- that basic motivation is how you know that you are going to make it. You are FAR stronger than you realize. Every time you pick up the phone and try to get a new therapist, or a new doctor, you shock your own inner critic, who thinks of you as helpless.
Yeah, you've got a major struggle going on inside, but the strong part is winning. We just have to keep cheering her on. I know that sooner or later, you're going to have the means to get past this. Life may even hand you a lucky break. I think you're due. Until then, stay strong, because a lot of people really care for you-
b-love right back to you,
-Li
Posted by ElaineM on October 30, 2006, at 17:46:57
In reply to Re: trying to know, knowing I don't, posted by frida on October 29, 2006, at 19:52:32
Thanks for your support Frida. It's true. I know he's not a T. He's a bit of T, a bit of a friend, and then a bit of all the other people his words and actions sometimes remind me of. But it's hard :( Today he almost took me to the ER because of my stomach. I was too scared to go though. But I was lying on the couch and I kept wincing in pain, and sorta moaning, and he said I looked pale and tired, and he focused on me for two hours. Didn't mention any of his stuff once. Talked about helping me with getting better medical help. Wants to speak to new ones for me..... :") .... :'( But that makes him more like a friend, or something else.
I want a T. But I also need a helper. I wish I had both. *sigh* I feel like I'm reaching some breaking point - and I can't tell if it's my body or my mind that's worse.Thanks for caring.
This is the end of the thread.
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