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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 20:23:46
She said yes, she had.
She said that our work is going to be long-term.
She said that I have many different facets of my identity that are not all in synchrony.
Some parts are very immature, and can only communicate via affect (expression of emotional states).
Other parts are very dominant and work pretty well- like my pleasant, bright, intelligent personality that wants to please you
Another part of my identity has a lot of fear.
My default mode of interacting in a face to face conversation is to adopt a stance of extreme emotional detachment coupled with a nearly seamless layer of witty pleasantries, appropriate dialogue, and pseudo-affect.
She said I'm brave.
Hmmm? maybe I get to have some inner children soon. That might be fun? or?
I think it might be a cool adventure to risk annihilation and actually reveal a real emotion at some level of depth. So far, my tears have reflected a sense of grief that I'm not able to connect with my emotions.
I always have this fantasy (it's a pleasant fantasy) of me finally being able to "lose it" and just have a total and complete break-down in a session. I think it would be absolutely amazing and life-altering.
I see too much of myself in Bree VanDeKamp. (oh, except her forehead is much more rigid than mine)
So, T says we have to work on getting these different aspects of my self to work together, rather than in opposition or in exclusion to each other. Sounds like fun huh?
ice cream, anyone? Haagen Dazs was on sale yesterday. I got 6 pints. mmm!
-Li
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 22:41:19
In reply to Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me?, posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 20:23:46
See you say something very important like breaking down and crying in a session and then crack a joke. You're not giving yourself permission to be Li. Does that make sense? I think your T is right. I hope the one I see Tuesday is half as insightful as yours. I will then learn to grow. And I'm more than grown in age. Just not in emotion. I hid and ran for too many years. Now I have to stop and grieve. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 23:04:57
In reply to Re: Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me? » Lindenblüte, posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 22:41:19
Hmm. How to say this?
Phillipa,
It's hard to give myself permission to express emotions with anything more than a very superficial description. I fake things a LOT. I've had to be an actress so that I could survive and not show pain, or fear, or even joy (show joy- and that could be taken away from me!)My oldT showed me that as a human I DO have emotions, even though they are extremely well-hidden and my defense mechanisms extremely well-developed.
It took 5 months before I could show oldT some emotion. and even then it was VERY VERY restrained. I had to put my experiences in the context of "how I would feel if this had happened to another child" and then I was able to cry about it. As soon as I thought about telling my OWN story, however, the tears vanished. Gone. I don't allow myself any emotional connection to those abominations.
The thought of such is frightening to me. That's why I crack a joke. Sarcasm- it's one of the ways we can seem wiser about ourselves than we are. One of the ways we can refocus the conversation back to our interlocuter. (I had to look that word up just now to make sure I was using it correctly)
well,
good night.300mg of seroquel says..... ZZZzzzZZZZZZzzz
bless you Phillipa. I hope you have a lovely gracious Saturday morning. let me know if you see anything beautiful in your corner of the world, okay?
love,
Li
Posted by Daisym on October 13, 2006, at 23:26:10
In reply to Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me?, posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 20:23:46
I remember asking that question. It is so loaded...mostly the "is it OK if I tell you all this stuff" question behind the question.
I don't know if inner children are fun. When you feel them, and they "come out" it can be an incredible experience, but scary as hell. I'm in another round of squash those voices if at all possible. Sometimes I'm more willing to try to get all the parts and pieces to work together.
It would have scared me if my therapist had said, "our work will be long term." How did it make you feel?
I think you are brave too.
It is my experience that initial tears are very much connected to the relief of being heard. As you learn to trust your new therapist, and you learn how to name your emotions, you might find that you begin to connect and feel things - more tears and likely, lots of rage. I swore for two years that there was no rage, no anger in all of this. Guess what? Eventually it surfaced. But for you, it might be quicker, different or non-existant. It is a process to figure all this out.
My caution about hoping for that complete emotional release is that one time is unlikely to be enough. I haven't let go completely - I don't see myself ever (ever, ever!) doing that - but the times when I have sobbed really hard, it did feel better eventually. And then the wound filled up again and needed to be drained again, and so on. (Racer's analogy of an infection.) I rant about therapy not being an after school special in which a good cry solves all.
Have you settled on a schedule yet? It sounds like a lot got said today. I hope the ice cream helps.
Posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 23:34:27
In reply to Re: Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me? » Lindenblüte, posted by Daisym on October 13, 2006, at 23:26:10
My analogy is nursing. When a patient of mine died. I had to swallow the pain and put on a happy face to take care of my other patients. Eventually my coping mechanisms were all used up. Hence the depression and anxiety. The anxiety is the pain trying to well up and out. I get a pain in my chest and a knot in my throat and all I want to do is cry. But I can't make it come out. Still haven't grieved my Mother dying when I was l7. I brought myself up and she blamed me for her illness. So Tuesday when I start theraphy my hope is help in learning to grieve and cry. Love Phillipa
Posted by muffled on October 14, 2006, at 1:29:44
In reply to Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me?, posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 20:23:46
> She said yes, she had.
**I think that was very brave of you to ask....I haven't...
>
> She said that our work is going to be long-term.***Thats not all bad. i think you are like me and can stand back and take some interest in a scientific way at ourselfs as we go thru this process...
>
> She said that I have many different facets of my identity that are not all in synchrony.***I think this statement could be said of a LARGE percentage of the population...
>
> Some parts are very immature, and can only communicate via affect (expression of emotional states).***Yeah, its hard cuz I just couldn't understand WHERE the emots. were comming from...
I have one aspect that I can 'SEE' strangley enough. I can't 'feel' her at all. I feel oddly removed from her. I'd 'see' her hiding under a small table, alone, crying, sometimes screaming and puking, skinny, all arms and legs.....weird eh?
>
> Other parts are very dominant and work pretty well- like my pleasant, bright, intelligent personality that wants to please you***Yeah, I got a mom me..... Detached scientist me.......and so on, dunno how separate those ones are, or whether those are all just adult me? Haven't thot about it. Too busy dealing with inside and irl kids!!!
>
> Another part of my identity has a lot of fear.***thats proly a kid. And Alex told me the best thing one time. When I first 'met' this kid, we fought like cats and dogs, cuz I thot she was being stupid and unreasonable, and I didn't understand her seemingly illogical responses to things. Then Alex reminded me that this kid WAS IN FACT A KID. And that being so, she was gonna behave like one. It all became SO much clearer then. Why she did the stuff she did, why she acted the way she did etc. So then I approached her as an adult speaking to a KID, and we started mending fences.....
She's a GREAT kid now. We get along well, and I am very proud of her. She's a really good helper. She's even helped me w/other inside kids!
>
> My default mode of interacting in a face to face conversation is to adopt a stance of extreme emotional detachment coupled with a nearly seamless layer of witty pleasantries, appropriate dialogue, and pseudo-affect.***Yeah, I was like that mostly (unless there was another kid part around, grrrrr!) I am doing better at being more 'real', whatever that means..
>
> She said I'm brave.***HA! My T says that of me too....as I sit in the chair not making any eye contact, and fidgeting, and twitching, and occasionally curling over my knees......brave?
>
> Hmmm? maybe I get to have some inner children soon. That might be fun? or?***Inner children are for me, in some ways they like my irl kids. Challenging but rewarding. It has helped me alot that I a mom, so I can 'mother' my inside kids.And funnily enough, because these kids are their own beings, I can deal with them as NOT me, they just any old kids and I treat them as I would any child (FAR better than I would ever treat myownself)
The first one I met was after praying, and she's just a baby, her name is Franchesca. I could only feel her. It was just simple, untainted, uncomplicated happy , contentedness. It was SO wonderful, cuz I loved her on the spot. She was happy, cuz for some reason I asked if she wanted a name, and when I called her Fran, she was SO happy. Pure simple happiness.
I love her.
And she is me......hmmmmmm.
I am of Franchesca, that beautiful sweet baby........
Mebbe I wasn't always tainted and bad.....
Franchesca, for all that she's but a babe, has given me SO much.......
Then there's the one I'm struggling with now......but its getting better. I think mebbe she gonna trust me to help her. The other helpful Ikid will help too, I'm sure. We haven't figgered out too much yet. Its hard to tolerate this kids enmotions for long, as they very intense.
>
> I think it might be a cool adventure to risk annihilation and actually reveal a real emotion at some level of depth. So far, my tears have reflected a sense of grief that I'm not able to connect with my emotions.***I used to think that too.....
I don't anymore, and I have no idea why?
I don't...cry....don't even like that word when its connected to me. I usu. call it waterineye...
>
> I always have this fantasy (it's a pleasant fantasy) of me finally being able to "lose it" and just have a total and complete break-down in a session. I think it would be absolutely amazing and life-altering.***I dunno. I get scared if I cry, that i'll get mad and do something bad... Protection will kick in...Nasty will come...Nasty operates on rage....:-(
>
> I see too much of myself in Bree VanDeKamp. (oh, except her forehead is much more rigid than mine)***Dunno who she is?
>
> So, T says we have to work on getting these different aspects of my self to work together, rather than in opposition or in exclusion to each other. Sounds like fun huh?***I think the BIGGEST thing in helping mine get together better, was REMEMBERING that they ARE kids(I still struggle with that sometimes...), and giving them kindness and acceptance. If their behavior was innappropriate, then I'd calmly explain what might be a better way to go about it etc. They need to know bout boundaries too.I try to be a calm, loving 'mom' type to them, they need to be heard and accepted. They needed to know that I knew that they exist and that its ok. One in particular had a THING about the fact she existed(lots of hurt feelings etc, over that one...)
>
> ice cream, anyone? Haagen Dazs was on sale yesterday. I got 6 pints. mmm!
>
**Holy poo poo. SIX pints....What flavors!!!!LOL.But really Li. I dunno what you going thru.....
Just want you to know bout how it is for me.....and that for me its ok, these 'kids'etc.
At this point I truly mostly like my 'people'. We mostly work together quite well. Even 'Nasty', who kinda scared me(Nasty is fuelled by rage), it turns out, was just trying to protect....
Take care Li,
Hope I'm not boring you to death, I'm TRYING to reassure you.......
Muffled
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 14, 2006, at 11:37:40
In reply to Re: Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me? » Lindenblüte, posted by Daisym on October 13, 2006, at 23:26:10
Thanks you guys,
I think I have made a lot of progress with my oldT in terms of just getting to the point where I acknowledge that I DO have emotions, and that emotions do not make me an inferior being.Next- realization that asking for help/support/company/kindness/comfort is not an automatic admission that I'm the nastiest weakest person on earth. This is a current project. Everytime I put myself out there as being vulnerable it scares the bejeezus out of me, but I'm getting a lot better. It doesn't have to be big stuff either- just an admission that maybe my data analysis is too complicated and I need to meet with a statistician, or maybe saying that I've been kind of sad this week- can we plan a social event over the weekend? That kind of stuff.
The next step- the most urgent one, in my opinion, this Saturday morning- is trying to figure out how to use my emotions in everyday circumstances. Who are the people in my life with whom I can let down my guard and say things like "I'm really dissappointed; I feel really sad; What you said really hurt me." Babble is a VERY good place for me to practice this stuff. It's a lot harder to say these things to someone's face, however. I've always been a much more open communicator in the written mode. I'm getting a tiny bit better at telling people like my husband, or my 2 most sympathetic friends, and my T / pdoc. I think I may have even said something emotionally revealing to my diss advisor last week.
It's hard though, because I feel like stirring up the waters of my childhood has kind of given me a lot more emotions on my palette (to use a painting metaphor). Sometimes at work, I just want to express mild frustration, and suggest a solution. What comes out instead is that I have accidentally forgotten to dilute my carmine red, and there is a torrent of undiluted anger and rage that I feel I can barely control "emotional diarrhea" lol (I catch myself 95% of the time, but in a few lovely episodes people have kind of given me the "eyebrow raise" that indicates <<cuckoo!!>>. In a sense, it feels authentic, but the problem is that such an outburst is only authentic to the original situation, which may have happened years ago. It's not at all appropriate or relevant to the current situation.
Since my marriage is to a guy who really values honesty, and trust, well I've been able to show him these strong emotions. Of course he has a strong counter-reaction. Can't figure out why I'm being so dramatic and over the top. Can't figure out why I'm so strange about certain topics. I think he knows my triggers better than I do! It's so funny- often he will say something like "I really want to ask you about something, but I know that it's going to stress you out, so I'm going to deal with it on my own". By "stress me out" he is referring to when his beloved wife switches from cheerful or indifferent to passionately oppositional and angry. Well, I'm so glad that I'm figuring out a few of the sources for these triggers. It makes things a lot easier. I can say "honey- why don't we try and talk about it. I'm going to do my best to understand our investment/bank accounts/car maintenance/vacationplans/choice of restaurants..." Inevitably- each one of these touchy points was a source of regular loud screaming matches in Li's childhood home.
Even though we argue a little more about psychology stuff (which he finds complete bullfunk), he has acknowledged that I'm easier to communicate with, and that he likes the little changes that he's seeing. That makes me feel so good. (((((husband)))))
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 14, 2006, at 11:50:58
In reply to Re: Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like me? » Daisym, posted by Phillipa on October 13, 2006, at 23:34:27
> My analogy is nursing. When a patient of mine died. I had to swallow the pain and put on a happy face to take care of my other patients. Eventually my coping mechanisms were all used up. Hence the depression and anxiety. The anxiety is the pain trying to well up and out. I get a pain in my chest and a knot in my throat and all I want to do is cry. But I can't make it come out.
Phillipa, that must be so incredibly difficult. You must be a very caring nurse, and I'm so sorry that you haven't been able to grieve for this.
Still haven't grieved my Mother dying when I was l7. I brought myself up and she blamed me for her illness. So Tuesday when I start theraphy my hope is help in learning to grieve and cry. Love Phillipa
That sounds like a good goal for therapy- to learn how to grieve for your losses. Try to remember that your reactions and behaviors and feelings did not happen overnight. They will not be fixed overnight either. You sound motivated, and that's going to help a lot, but just try to remember that this kind of healing is very different from "medical" healing. A lot of times you will feel like your past becomes very confusing, and yet you are doing better in your everyday life. Other times, you will just feel confused and wonder whether you're making the right decisions, because things feel kind of wrong or strange. Since you are prone to anxiety, a lot of your work with your T will probably be almost like a coaching session. Your T may hear you for a little while, and may give you suggestions on ways to think about things differently. If you can do your best to keep an open mind, you will be doing really well. I didn't notice any "progress" in therapy for a long time, but other people were noticing it! Isn't that funny?
As far as grieving your mother- well there is no right or wrong way to grieve. I have been in the position where I was forcing myself to feel a socially acceptable form of grief for my dying father (who has since recovered, kind of) but underneath this "grief" was a lot of very hostile and conflicted emotions. Things that didn't feel right, things that didn't make sense. So- try to keep that in mind- there's no "right" way to feel. It is important, however, to recognize what we ARE feeling and to try to understand how these feelings came to be.
Best of luck on Tuesday. keep us posted!
remember- baby steps! Give yourself time to get into therapy. It's pretty tricky, and most of the people on this board are still trying to figure out what it's all about (I think) even after months and years!-Li
Posted by Phillipa on October 14, 2006, at 22:13:49
In reply to Re: Asked my T if she ever worked with anyone like » Phillipa, posted by Lindenblüte on October 14, 2006, at 11:50:58
Li thanks I will try. Remember how much older I am and the hurt has been building for much longer. Add in a couple divorces, moves. And now a younger husband who can't remember the past like me. All I can do is hope this time I click with this Therapist as I've tried some before. They wouldn't let me grieve said it was too long ago. But the mind doesn't forget. Love Phillipa ps Li I love you as a Daughter again
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