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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2006, at 15:30:11
In reply to Re: I screwed up..., posted by happyflower on September 27, 2006, at 13:11:01
After 21 years I'd think she'd know you very well. Would she expect this type of call from you? Love Phillipa ps don't usually post here it was suggested I start as I need a therapist.
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 27, 2006, at 15:38:17
In reply to Re: I screwed up..., posted by happyflower on September 27, 2006, at 13:11:01
Hi TG
who are you upset at?
yourself (why?)
her (why?)
anybody else? (why?)what part of the upset is reasonable, and what part is exaggerated?
I guess if you can answer those questions, you'll be healed. lol
My advice to you is to handle the phone call by practicing what you want to tell her. Will you apologize (if you feel you may have exaggerated your response?). Will you use the opportunity to explain what part of you is hurt, and why you are justified in feeling hurt?
Another option is to accept the fact that you have strong feelings about it, but you're not quite sure why or where they came from. That you value the work that you do together with T, and that you would like to talk about this event together with her, to try and figure out what it means.
-Li
p.s. sometimes we give good advice a hundred times before we realize that the same might possibly apply to us. It's okay to slip. Sorry if you're hurting too bad. I hope it's only a bruise, though.
Posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:17:46
In reply to I screwed up..., posted by TherapyGirl on September 27, 2006, at 12:14:11
> Ya' know, just when I think I've got it figured out and am stable, I screw things up with T AGAIN. I make posts to some of you who are struggling with T relationships (Daisy and Muffled come to mind) and I mean what I say and it all sounds very good, but when it comes to my OWN situation, I completely lose my mind.
***Sorry TG, but i HAD to smile when I read this...
>
> So T is out of the office this week, taking care of her grandchild. We had several conversations about this (about her having the baby for an entire week and about her being available to me at her house if I needed her). Anyway, yesterday, I drove by her office on the way to the library and HER CAR WAS THERE. I immediately LOST MY MIND because I immediately thought she had lied to me. I had called her voice mail over the weekend to leave a message for next week and she hadn't changed it, but I thought she forgot. Then when I saw her car, I assumed that she was just off part of this week (or maybe just my day) and didn't want to reschedule with me. You know, because I'm so high maintenance and she's so sick of me. So I called her voice mail, told her I had seen her car and said I couldn't believe she lied to me. That no matter what she thought (whether she thought she was protecting me or making it easier for me), that she couldn't lie to me or else I could never believe anything she said to me.***Sorry again TG, but here I laughed! Cuz you sound JUST LIKE ME!!!!!! LOL! Its good to no be alone in stuff isn't it!
I told her I felt like we had had this conversation too many times (the other times involved her not telling me things, not lying) and that I was at a loss as to what to do. That I didn't know if I could ever get over her LYING to me.
***Yeah, I got a thing bout lying too..
>
> She just called me. I didn't pick up because I'm too messed up to talk to her. She left me a message, saying she had gotten my message and that she hoped I'd had "time to think things through more clearly and get to a better place about it." She then told me to call her if I got the message in the next 5 minutes (while grandchild is occupied), or otherwise she would call me later.***Now see I woulda gotten mad that she expected me to call in 5 mins.....
>
> The call came from her house. So I just called her voicemail and she has now changed the message, saying she'll be back in next Wed.***See I'da done that too.
So she didn't LIE to me, she just implied that it would be a regular week she was out. I'm still irritated because I feel like she gave me inaccurate info. about where to reach her when (which was important because there are big job things going on this week, which she knows). But I do feel bad for immediately assuming the worst. I honestly don't do this with other people -- just her. And she has put in 21 years with me, so I shouldn't. But I can't seem to help it.
***I can't seem to help it either. I make myself crazy over the dumbest stuff sometimes....
>
> So if any of you have any advice for me about how to handle the phone call later, I'd appreciate it.***Well your T sounds ok too. She'll proly be just fine if you are very honest bout all how it came about and the feelings surrounding it. I think I learn the most from these sorts of sessions really. And actually they often end up being sorta bonding eventually.(Once the dust settles!)
So I'm sorry its hard, don't I know.
But selfishly, I'm glad I'm not the only one!
You guys'll work it out.
And you can learn.
Thanks for all the help you've given me T.G.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Daisym on September 27, 2006, at 23:20:39
In reply to Re: I screwed up... » TherapyGirl, posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:17:46
You know, one of my first thoughts was that my mother has been my mother for more than 40 years and I still go nuts with her sometimes. So I suspect that even 21 years with a therapist wouldn't take away all of the insane responses that go with any intense relationship.
Not that I think your response was insane. It would hurt my feelings to know that my therapist chose his grandchild over me, even if intellectually I know it is OK and that the two don't actually form that equation. And with that lingering fear of "I'm a hard client, she must be relieved to not have to see me" - seeing the car would make me upset too. What is cool, is that you had the courage to call her right up and honestly tell her that you were upset and why. I would have hid under my bed for weeks and pouted about it.
When she calls, (if she hasn't by now) - be honest. Apologize if you feel the need. Tell her how important she is to you. Own your stuff about assuming the worst. Ask her to be very clear in the future.
It is soooooo much easier to give advice to others about their therapy relationships than to make sense out of our own. That is why I suggested to All Done that once per year, we all switch around and visit each others therapists. Now wouldn't THAT be interesting!
It will be Ok...your relationship is strong. Forgive yourself.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 7:41:13
In reply to Re: I screwed up..., posted by happyflower on September 27, 2006, at 13:11:01
Thanks, HappyFlower. It's so nice to be in the boat with all of you instead of hanging on to a life saver all by myself. :-)
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 7:42:48
In reply to Re: I screwed up..., posted by Phillipa on September 27, 2006, at 15:30:11
Yes, she does know me very well and somehow manages to forgive me over and over again for this kind of behavior, while at the same time continuing to work with me so that the next time I handle it better.
Hope you find a good T soon, Phillipa.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 7:44:23
In reply to Re: I screwed up..., posted by Lindenblüte on September 27, 2006, at 15:38:17
Thanks. It was helpful for me to read through your questions and think about them before she called back. (I'll detail our conversation below in a group posting.)
You are so right about the whole advice thing. <<<SIGH>>>
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 7:48:21
In reply to Re: I screwed up... » TherapyGirl, posted by muffled on September 27, 2006, at 22:17:46
Thanks, Muffy. I *knew* you would totally get it. And (today) it makes me smile, too. It seems that no matter what our different issues may be, we Babblers have so much in common.
Of course, I should have posted about this BEFORE I called her voice mail originally and gotten advice (and a reality check) BEFORE I lost my mind. Oh, well. Live and learn.
You are right, though, that these are the sessions that I learn the most from. I just wish, after 21 years, that I could learn from situations without losing my mind. LOL
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 7:52:20
In reply to Re: I screwed up... » muffled, posted by Daisym on September 27, 2006, at 23:20:39
Thanks, Daisy.
You know, it doesn't exactly hurt my feelings that she chose her grandchild over me (who wouldn't choose a cute 20-month-old over a 40-something with ISSUES), but my heart does ache. I think because I know what an excellent grandmother she is and I'm a little jealous that this child is so adored and protected by all the grown-ups in her life. I wish I could have had that.
I like your idea about switching Ts once/year. It would be very interesting to see what each of us thought about the other Ts. Like are the good ones good no matter what, or do the personalities have to click for it to really work?
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 8:01:42
In reply to I screwed up..., posted by TherapyGirl on September 27, 2006, at 12:14:11
Thanks so much to all of you for the support. I really, really wish I had posted here before I made the initial phone call accusing my T of lying to me.
She did call me back. And she said, "So have you had time to think this through and think of some other reasons you might have seen my car at the office?" I told her, "No, not on my own." Then she asked if I wanted her to explain it to me. I told her she didn't have to because I had called her voice mail and gotten the updated message. And then I told her that I just couldn't keep doing this to myself and to her. That I don't understand why 21 years with her doesn't trump the over-the-top responses to these situations. And I reminded her that usually more time just makes it WORSE, not better. Like by the middle of the night Tues. night, I was convinced that she had ONLY cancelled my appointment because she was sick of me. She said she knew. Then she told me what the goal regarding these situations is (that I would note seeing her car and ask her about it next week at my session, but that I would know that she wouldn't lie to me and relax about it until she explained). She said my first reaction to this stuff is probably always going to be, "I'm getting screwed over AGAIN." But that if I can learn to get through that without going over the top, then I can keep the drama to a minimum. (I have seriously paraphrased here -- she didn't use words like drama and over the top.)
She also said that she wasn't doing a regular day on Tuesday. She went into the office for a staff meeting (because she will miss next week) and then she had to meet a client for an emergency session. And I was thinking, "You mean you have another client with emergencies????" LOL Then she said she would have done the same for me if I had an emergency.
So I apologized. She repeated several times that she doesn't want me to beat myself up over this. I'm sure we will talk about it more next week. I just love talking about my neuroses.
God, it is exhausting being so high maintenance.
Posted by muffled on September 28, 2006, at 10:16:30
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 8:01:42
So I apologized. She repeated several times that she doesn't want me to beat myself up over this. I'm sure we will talk about it more next week. I just love talking about my neuroses.
God, it is exhausting being so high maintenance.
****Me too :-(
Sigh.
Dunno why they put up with us.
But they do :-)
Thanksfor the update!!!!
Glad it went ok.
Muffled
Posted by Jost on September 28, 2006, at 14:05:36
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by muffled on September 28, 2006, at 10:16:30
> So I apologized. She repeated several times that she doesn't want me to beat myself up over this. I'm sure we will talk about it more next week. I just love talking about my neuroses.
>
> God, it is exhausting being so high maintenance.
>
> ****Me too :-(
> Sigh.
> Dunno why they put up with us.
> But they do :-)
> Thanksfor the update!!!!
> Glad it went ok.
> Muffled~~Muffy, you're so cute. I know why your T puts up with you-- even if you are a "problem child." (And I do mean that in the best way-- you're so right-on-- it's like you have that grasp of the core of things that is really great.)
TherapyGirl, anyway, the work * is * doing this stuff over and over, and each time making a that small step toward handling it better the next time, and next time, and next time. You did so much better than other times. Think back to ten years ago. Is it better now?If not. well time to decide to post here, and let all of us to tell you the things we'll forget when it's our turn to be paranoid and distrustful of people who've put years into showing us over and over that we *can* trust them.
I coulda told you that there was some reason your T had to go to the office-- but you know-- that's the kind of thing you can't believe, with thoughts of her grandchild and your own fears working on you-- but-- when fears arise-- each time, that voice of reality, or sanity, or practical reason gets stronger and stronger, and reminds you more compellingly that: there are other explanations, and you can trust your T, no matter what ambiguous (but seemingly scary) "appearances" are suggesting.
I"m glad your T knows you so well, and is good for you. You're getting there.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:14:53
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by Jost on September 28, 2006, at 14:05:36
Now hope can I find someone I click with like you guys. Did you all like your therapists at first or did it happen over time. Hate her/him at times and other times feel differently? Love Phillipa
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 21:15:07
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:14:53
I liked mine okay at first. Got her after first T unceremoniously dumped me. So I was resistant for a good little while. But there was a warmth and kindness in her that always appealed to me. And once I let my guard down just a little bit, I was attached.
I don't think I've ever hated her -- I have been furious at her (even worse than this week) and there are often times when I hate my dependency on her. But I promise you I wouldn't be alive right now if it weren't for her.
I hope you find a workable relationship.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 21:17:34
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:14:53
I also think there has to be a certain unknown quantity (chemistry, for want of a better word?) or it doesn't work as well.
What are you doing to find a T?
Posted by Jost on September 28, 2006, at 21:17:41
In reply to Re: I screwed up... UPDATE, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 19:14:53
I liked my T right away. I've seen many Ts and I had a very strong feeling the first day that this T was right for me.
Don't know why. I was really depressed, and didn't take it too seriously, in a way, but I was really had a very strong feeling of connection.
I don't know if that's common, or even important, though. This relationship has been better and more helpful than others. Still, it could be the point I was at in my life.
Jost
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 21:33:28
In reply to Re: Did you like T at first? » Phillipa, posted by Jost on September 28, 2006, at 21:17:41
So far I've seen about 5. I said what I read on hear that if you're needed will you be there for me. They all said no just at appointment time . The rest is up to you. Does this sound right? I met a young girl therapist in the ER I clicked with but she doesn't do therapy except for the hospital and didn't know of any others. Just a list. I hate lists. I want to know one with a reputation of compassion, exploring your past and working out a plan. Why is this so hard for me to find? Oh and I only have medicaire and this creates another problem as a lot of the good ones only take other insurance. love Phillipa
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 21:49:30
In reply to Re: Did you like T at first?, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 21:33:28
I bet that does make it harder (the Medicare thing). I'm surprised about the unavailability, though. I'm guessing maybe you have talked to therapists who do CBT? I think anyone who does any form of psychoanalysis would know that they would need to be available for emergencies. But maybe I'm wrong.
Do you have a doc or friends you could ask for referrals?
Posted by muffled on September 28, 2006, at 21:59:36
In reply to Re: Did you like T at first?, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 21:33:28
Phillipa. I liked my T. Sort of. She gave off good vibes anyhow. I dunno, I would think most T's would be avail for basic backup beyond appts? Mine has a polocy of NO AVAILABILITY btwn fri aft and Mon aft. And not after 9 p.m. in the eve. Other than that I can leave messages and she will get back to me. I think alot of T's charge for phone calls too.
Mine doesn't, and has a sliding scale. I don't think she proly makes a whole lot of money. But thats not why she does it.
Good luck.
Muffled
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 22:08:37
In reply to Re: Did you like T at first? » Phillipa, posted by TherapyGirl on September 28, 2006, at 21:49:30
You wouldn't believe what I've been through trying to find a good therapist. That in itself is depressing. Love Phillipa
Posted by Lindenblüte on September 28, 2006, at 23:55:42
In reply to I screwed up..., posted by TherapyGirl on September 27, 2006, at 12:14:11
The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
- Oscar WildeHugs to you ((((TG))))
I dunno how you can do therapy for so long. It's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life :(
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 29, 2006, at 7:43:10
In reply to Re: I screwed up... I gotta quote for you :) » TherapyGirl, posted by Lindenblüte on September 28, 2006, at 23:55:42
I think I will have a t-shirt printed up with that quote on it. How appropriate. Thanks for sharing and for giving me a laugh.
It *is* hard to constantly examine everything, isn't it? I intersperse the harder work, though, with shallow things every now and then to give both of us a break. Sometimes I just don't have the energy to tackle the big stuff.
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 29, 2006, at 20:05:03
In reply to Re: Did you like T at first?, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2006, at 22:08:37
It just occurred to me (after reading a post from Muffled) that you should try to check into any pastoral/christian counselors in your area. My T is a licensed pastoral counselor. They accept insurance (not sure about Medicare) and they also charge on a sliding scale. And, no, they don't shove their spiritual stuff down your throat. In 21 years, the only time I've discussed that stuff with my T is when I've brought it up. Just a thought...
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 20:28:56
In reply to Finding a T » Phillipa, posted by TherapyGirl on September 29, 2006, at 20:05:03
I don't go to Church I'm more spiritual. I had one therapist who all she talked about was religion and it wasn't Christian just a therapist and then she talked about her own meds. Ugggg Love Phillipa
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 29, 2006, at 21:07:04
In reply to Re: Finding a T » TherapyGirl, posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 20:28:56
That's the point I was trying to make Phillipa -- I don't go to church either and I had religion crammed down my throat the whole time growing up. If my T tried to do the same thing, I'd be out of there before she knew what happened. But in 21 years, it's never happened. She is available to discuss spirituality if I CHOOSE, but otherwise it doesn't come up.
Sounds like your former T had lots of problems and wasn't very well trained.
This is the end of the thread.
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