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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 17:13:47
You meant so much more to me than I ever did to you, and I guess that's just the way it is with us Patients.
The ability you had to hurt me was too great. Did you use it on purpose? Did you Try to hurt me, or was it a side effect of throwing me away because I was too obnoxious? Why couldn't you just sit me down and say "Look, Susan, I care about you the way I care about all my patients. I want to help you. I want you to be able to talk to me. I want to build trust. Let's work on that. I think you have a lot of wonderful qualities, and I can see that you're making some mistakes you may regret later on. Let me help you with that. I want to make some suggestions that will help you this week, let's set up an appointment for next week or for two weeks in the future, and in the meantime you work on these suggestions...."Did it happen that way? No. I let myself get carried away with my emotions and I didn't hide very much from him. I did that on purpose. I blind-sided him with my emotional creativity .. he became shy .. hesitant .. unsure of himself. I know that.
Why did I do that? Why did I unleash so much emotional power and turn it against myself, and really, in a strong way, against him too? The last thing I wanted was to alienate the one person I wanted in my life more than anything else. Which was wrong. I shouldn't have wanted this therapist, I shouldn't have clung to him instead of my own DH, my kids, the family I had and don't have anymore.
Sh*t.
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 18:52:38
In reply to Dear Dr., posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 17:13:47
Can you tell your new T this stuff?
Mebbe she can tell him?
All is not lost.
Just lotsa hurts.
:-(
Sorry its hard.
This T stuff is the sh*ts.
Take care,
Muffled
Posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 21:08:36
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » Susan47, posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 18:52:38
I appreciate you answering my post Muffled. I know it's hard, it's hard for all of us isn't it. The hardest thing of all, for me, is feeling like a person who has an interest in living. I WANT TO KNOW HOW TO LIVE AND BE HAPPY or let me die now, just right now, let my heart stop all on its own because they say you can do that if you really want to .. but that's wishful thinking. It doesn't really happen like that. I have to MAKE it happen if I find my existence so unbearable .. and I really do. I thought about walking out into the ocean. I suspect my T .. this is sick, okay? But I really think maybe my T goes fishing .. maybe on a nice day like today, he'd be out on the ocean fishing or something .. or sailing .. who knows .. he seemed to like the ocean I think.. from some conversations .. he seems to be intimately familiar with it .. and I thought, if I walked out in the water now, and just let it take me over my head, and it would be cold, and everything, but I'd be in the same place, joined to where he was ... I know that's sick. But I really felt it, I really wanted it. My T was like mother's milk to my soul .. I don't understand and I just hurt SOOO much.
God help me.. I know I'm saying that a lot, and honestly I don't believe in a god .. of any kind .. only energy, as they say .. everything is energy. If I die, I'll be cremated and all my energy will be dissipated. Gone.
I didn't know I could hurt this badly. Feel this alone. This abandoned. Death has to be better than this.
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 21:40:15
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » muffled, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 21:08:36
((((((((((((Susan)))))))))))
This is the here and now. This is how you feel now.
But the past is history, the future is a mystery, and it could be good.
So I hang on.
Muffled
Posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:15:19
In reply to Re: Dear Dr., posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 21:40:15
Thanks Muffled. It has passed, the moment of extreme hopelessness and joylessness has passed. For now. I pray it NEVER COMES BACK. I CANNOT STAND FEELING THAT WAY. Sorry for shouting, but goddamnit, that's how strongly I feel. I want all the bad feelings to go away, all the feelings of being alone, and a failure, and abandoned and hopeless and goddamn unworthy ...
I'm sick and tired of cruel, stupid people who don't understand anything. Therapists who are so caught up in their own lives they can't see outside their office boxes. They can't understand what pain really is. They don't feel it the way you or I do. Their pain is different. It really is. In fact, nothing is fully understood in this world unless it is fully experienced.
Fact.
On Friday I saw a new therapist. Let's hope she's capable of doing real therapy. Because I spilled the beans on my behaviour with the ex-therapist. Remember all my phone calls? Well, I'm still making them, you see. Still making all the phone calls to the ex-T, only they've really tapered off because I'm frightened of him now, frightened of his power and his blame and his self-righteousness. And he will be. I know that. In my heart, I know he has to defend himself against God knows what.
In any case, my shameful secret is out, that I used him like a soother, his answering machine, and I ranted and raved into it and cried into it and loved into it .. I used that machine like it was my lifeline. And it was.
But my nightmare was this .. that a lot of dead bodies were floating in a lake where I was .. I don't remember all the details but the bodies were brought in, rotting, rolled up in blankets, and placed beside my son .. and the reason they were beside him, I realized when I awoke, is because I made a phone call when I was stoned and my son was beside me, he was there in the room, and talking to me, and I was on the phone, and I knew the T could hear him, and THAT is when he had his wife tape over his answering machine message.
So my shameful phone calls of despair are the dead bodies, and my son was the witness.
Posted by muffled on September 24, 2006, at 23:38:50
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » muffled, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:15:19
Susan, you love your son, thats all important.
There's those that don't give a flying f*ck bout their kids. You do care. Thats good.
As for phone calls. They not shameful. Your hurting. Reaching out in your agony. Thats not shameful, thats fear and being sick.
Your not bad Susan, just screwed up right now.
But its not irreparible.
You can get better.
Oftentimes you are very clear and coherant and well spoken.
Sometimes you spin out some.
So do I.
Am I hateful and awful?
My T has helped me to better understand that stuff some.
Still don't fully get it. But its sinking in. Slowly.
I am SURE I have hurt my chuldren. Psychologically scarred them, and it breaks my heart.
And so I am trying SO hard to do better for them. To make up for past damage.....
I don't think I necessarily 'bad'. I starting to realize its more like a sickness, like my alcoholism is.....
Keep at it Susan,
You get there,
Muffled
Posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:45:58
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » muffled, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:15:19
I just realized you don't know what I was talking about. I had a nightmare Friday night after seeing the new therapist and confessing for the first time, actually completely breaking down for the first time in front of someone (other than on the ex-T's answering machine) .. I confessed everything about my phone calls and she actually asked me if I had engaged in any stalking-type behaviours, which I haven't and I told her so but she said of Course the ex-T would be thinking about this and it would scare him, which made me feel horrid because I already suspected that ... and that is the night I had the nightmare about the bodies. Because my stalking-type behaviours were the telephone calls. Those were stalking-type behaviours, which is scary, considering the fact that I made them because they made me feel connected to the only person who seemed to have any understanding or empathy for me .. which of course, he didn't. He was feeling threatened, irritated, and disgusted. Which is really really sad, because I brought that about and it's the absolute last thing I wanted.
(sigh) And it's time to face the music, only I don't know if I have the strength to do that. I do know I have to find the strength to stay away from drugs, though. Because the ganji lies, it lied to me and I actually invited those lies because I felt so hopeless about myself.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 3:38:28
In reply to Oh, Dear, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:45:58
i was reading this article over the weekend. it was about... erotic transference. apparantly there are two models of why that happens... and the article was a case study write up and i think he was kinda switching between the two models and he said there seemed to be something more to it... or whatever. i don't remember the article very well to tell you the honest truth. what i remember was one of the models. i can't remember the other model. but one of the models...
the notion was that erotic transference can be a defence against feelings of dependency and powerlessness. because... we feel dependent and clingy and we find that repulsive and scarey. because when you feel like that people abuse you and break your trust or leave or whatever. so the feelings of dependency and powerlessness morph... into erotic attachment. or hatred sometimes. a way of equalising the power balance... or a way of having power over. because of fear susan.
don't know how this helps if this helps if this is relevant. i didn't get to do any work this weekend. i read that... dammit. round and round and round...
(((((susan)))))) i'm sorry.
is it about... going back further... is it about your dad susan? 'cause you loved your dad but he hurt you and stuff so it wasn't safe for you to be dependent on him. then your t comes along and all your feelings for your dad come up. but the feelings of dependency are too hard to bear so instead... they get morphed into erotic attachment and stuff...
Posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 4:07:19
In reply to Oh, Dear, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:45:58
Yeah, I remembered bout that.
Thanks for the remind.
But you so much more calmer these days.
Ya, the gangi be trouble all right.
Take care, you doing good.
You facing up to stuff.
Not easy , but good.
Hope this T is a good one.
That she can help ya sort stuff out.
Take care Susan.
Muffled
Posted by bird in the sky on September 25, 2006, at 11:41:34
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » muffled, posted by Susan47 on September 24, 2006, at 23:15:19
> > But my nightmare was this .. that a lot of dead bodies were floating in a lake where I was .. I don't remember all the details but the bodies were brought in, rotting, rolled up in blankets, and placed beside my son .. and the reason they were beside him, I realized when I awoke, is because I made a phone call when I was stoned and my son was beside me, he was there in the room, and talking to me, and I was on the phone, and I knew the T could hear him, and THAT is when he had his wife tape over his answering machine message.
> So my shameful phone calls of despair are the dead bodies, and my son was the witness.
Hello Susan,
It's me again, i always like to read from you. I guess i identify with you a lot. I used to post about a year ago but was on the wrong section, when i shoulda been on psychology cause i'm not on meds now. re: your dream:
it sounds really interesting.
I have read water (lake) is Emotions
Death (dead bodies) is a good thing. Means you are progressing, psychospiritually. I think there are many ways and many layers in interpreting dreams as only the dreamer (you) of course really knows.
last night i dreampt this dog was dying, shivering without hair and lying next to his grave which was nicely dug and the dirt inside was warmed by the sun. hmmm
Nightmares are brought out of our deep concious to help us. I'm just not sure how, but i think yours was a positive dream. bird
Posted by happyflower on September 25, 2006, at 14:36:43
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » Susan47, posted by bird in the sky on September 25, 2006, at 11:41:34
((((Susan)))) I hear your pain, you have a lot of pain, you are suffering so much because of it. But you have reached out and done something about it. Try to trust your T, I know you are scared probably, don't want to get burnt again, but you can do it. I have a good feeling about this. You let down your defenses in a big way, more than I have done in therapy, you are going to heal, I have hope for you.
Posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:03:44
In reply to Re: Oh, Dear, posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 3:38:28
You are probably right. I did feel horribly dependent on this therapist, I wanted his approval so much it actually almost hurt, and I had been in a horrible marriage which wasn't really a marriage, more like a torture chamber ... like the family I grew up in, the marriage was just as destructive. I didn't want to feel dependent on this T, I was really attracted to him as a .. male .. and a person, because I could feel how empathetic he was, and I could really feel beautiful things about him because that's just the way he can be .. and I was so frightened that when he found out how inadequate I really was, he would find me disgusting and shameful. I guess when I caught him staring at part of my anatomy that is typically considered sexual, and staring quite bluntly and fascinatedly, I found a coup I could use that would keep me invulnerable. Only, it didn't quite work that way. My past is riddled with bad choices because of my feelings of inadequacy.
I sure hope you are getting therapy, alex. I'm not aware of what's happening with anyone else right now, I'm being very very selfish and self-centered and I don't mind admitting it .. I'm a needy S.O.B. right now. Just not very strong-feeling at all.
But I do care about you and for you very much. I wish someday that we meet. Take care and thank you for your support, you're a beautiful beautiful sensitive and deeply emotional person .. those are all good things.
Posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:12:15
In reply to Re: Oh, Dear » Susan47, posted by muffled on September 25, 2006, at 4:07:19
> Yeah, I remembered bout that.
> Thanks for the remind.
> But you so much more calmer these days.
> Ya, the gangi be trouble all right.
> Take care, you doing good.
> You facing up to stuff.
> Not easy , but good.
> Hope this T is a good one.
> That she can help ya sort stuff out.
> Take care Susan.
> Muffled
>Thanks, Muffled. Did you do ganji? You know what I'm talking about? I had to quit because of my memory, that was the thing that made me decide to quit .. but my children have said to me they like being with me much more now that I've quit.. I didn't see how it was affecting my relationship with them. I have a lot to regret. A lot. Thanks Muffled. Facing up to stuff is tough sh*t.
Posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:17:56
In reply to Re: Dear Dr. » Susan47, posted by bird in the sky on September 25, 2006, at 11:41:34
> > > But my nightmare was this .. that a lot of dead bodies were >
> Hello Susan,
> It's me again, i always like to read from you. I guess i identify with you a lot. I used to post about a year ago but was on the wrong section, when i shoulda been on psychology cause i'm not on meds now. re: your dream:
> it sounds really interesting.
> I have read water (lake) is Emotions
> Death (dead bodies) is a good thing. Means you are progressing, psychospiritually. I think there are many ways and many layers in interpreting dreams as only the dreamer (you) of course really knows.
> last night i dreampt this dog was dying, shivering without hair and lying next to his grave which was nicely dug and the dirt inside was warmed by the sun. hmmm
> Nightmares are brought out of our deep concious to help us. I'm just not sure how, but i think yours was a positive dream. bird
>
Thanks for your post, Bird In The Sky... all dreams are positive I think, in the way that they move us forward, our subconscious is working things out .. I wonder what your dream meant. If you think about it I'm sure you can figure it out .. it sounds very important. Maybe the warm grave represents a place of safety and insulation from the world? What did the dog represent? Was it you, do you think, or an aspect of yourself which isn't feeling safe and needs nurturing, maybe? What's your take on this dream?
Posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:20:19
In reply to Re: Dear Dr., posted by happyflower on September 25, 2006, at 14:36:43
> ((((Susan)))) I hear your pain, you have a lot of pain, you are suffering so much because of it. But you have reached out and done something about it. Try to trust your T, I know you are scared probably, don't want to get burnt again, but you can do it. I have a good feeling about this. You let down your defenses in a big way, more than I have done in therapy, you are going to heal, I have hope for you.
Thanks Happyflower, I have a lot of respect for you and I hope you're right. You stuck the course with your therapist even though you felt a lot of the same feelings I did for my ex-T, and if I'd had an ounce of your real-life courage, I wouldn't be where I am today. Thank-you.
Posted by alexandra_k on September 25, 2006, at 22:17:34
In reply to Re: Oh, Dear » alexandra_k, posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:03:44
> I did feel horribly dependent on this therapist, I wanted his approval so much it actually almost hurt
Yeah, I understand. And that... Is giving a person a lot of power. And that is scary when power has been abused before...
> like the family I grew up in, the marriage was just as destructive.
Yeah. Cycles Susan... Round and round...
> I didn't want to feel dependent on this TSure, I understand.
I think the notion is that sometimes feeling sexually attracted can be... A defence. A way of gaining back some of the power that you lose in caring about them so much. Especially... When one has been sexually abused. I don't know if you have or not... But sometimes we can come to think that our value lies in our ability to do sex stuff. And so the sexual feelings come because that is safer than the dependency feelings because the only way our dependency needs have ever come even close to being met was when the sex stuff was there. I'm just saying... I know that some people just *are* attractive... But usually... Especially in a therapy setting... It isn't really about that so much as it is about defending against feeling dependent and clingy and stuff because it is just too scarey. I guess I'm wondering if the obsession (sorry, hope you don't mind my saying that...) if it is about stuff that you never really got to talk to him about... Because it isn't about him so much as it is about the past...
> I was so frightened that when he found out how inadequate I really was, he would find me disgusting and shameful. I guess when I caught him staring at part of my anatomy that is typically considered sexual, and staring quite bluntly and fascinatedly, I found a coup I could use that would keep me invulnerable. Only, it didn't quite work that way. My past is riddled with bad choices because of my feelings of inadequacy.Yeah. I understand. Don't know what is to be done... But I understand.
Posted by muffled on September 26, 2006, at 9:47:48
In reply to Re: Oh, Dear » muffled, posted by susan47 on September 25, 2006, at 21:12:15
> > Yeah, I remembered bout that.
> > Thanks for the remind.
> > But you so much more calmer these days.
> > Ya, the gangi be trouble all right.
> > Take care, you doing good.
> > You facing up to stuff.
> > Not easy , but good.
> > Hope this T is a good one.
> > That she can help ya sort stuff out.
> > Take care Susan.
> > Muffled
> >
>
> Thanks, Muffled. Did you do ganji? You know what I'm talking about? I had to quit because of my memory, that was the thing that made me decide to quit .. but my children have said to me they like being with me much more now that I've quit.. I didn't see how it was affecting my relationship with them. I have a lot to regret. A lot. Thanks Muffled. Facing up to stuff is tough sh*t.**Ya I done it lots. Sometimes i'd get the worst paranoia. I did alot in high school, and I mostly quit for the same reason you did. It totally screwed up my short term memory. It was awful.
I have mountains of regret too. Wasted life.
But I trying to do better.
Facing up to stuff is horrible.
You doing good Susan,
You inspire me to face up more.
Take special care,
Muffled
This is the end of the thread.
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